Captain America: Brave New World

[biostem]

17 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

It just made you physically peak human performance at things

IIRC, it didn't just make you "peak human" in physicality;  It also made your perception, reflexes, and pretty much everything else, "peak", and, IMHO, being able to throw the shield AND get it to  connect with a fast moving target, while also doing so at just the right angle to bounce and return, require such a suite of enhancements.  It's also why it's supposed to be such a big deal when Bucky was able to "yoink" Cap's shield mid-throw...

[Ghost]

33 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

 

Yeah it's ridiculous but that is the Captain America from the comics. He does not have super strength in the comics (at least the version I reads as a kid). The super soldier serum didn't make you superhuman. It just made you physically peak human performance at things. And he routinely takes out multiple targets with shield throws.

Yeah but MCU Cap has shown to be more than a peak human.

The way he jumped around on the heli carrier in the first Avengers.  How fast he ran compared to Black Panther in Infinity War.

 

It may seem like something silly to complain about, but it would have made more sense if Sam only used the shield defensively, and in close quarter combat.

especially when one of the mini subplots was Sam lamenting the fact that he never took the SS serum like Steve and Bucky.

Why?  He can do everything Steve can do lol

[biostem]

20 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Yeah but MCU Cap has shown to be more than a peak human.

Here's the thing - it's a blurry distinction;  If you could combine the best sprinter, power lifter, high  jumper, etc, all into 1 person, that'd be "peak human" - and perhaps with that combination of strength, speed, energy, etc, then such a person might just be able to perform the kind of feats demonstrated in the MCU movies...

[Ghost]

31 minutes ago, biostem said:

Here's the thing - it's a blurry distinction;  If you could combine the best sprinter, power lifter, high  jumper, etc, all into 1 person, that'd be "peak human" - and perhaps with that combination of strength, speed, energy, etc, then such a person might just be able to perform the kind of feats demonstrated in the MCU movies...

Let’s see….

-Jumped 20+ feet in the air while trying to fix the helicarrier

-kept a helicopter from taking off with one hand 

-ripped a log in half, with his bare hands

-held back Thanos hand

-leaps out of planes and lands safely without a parachute

 

Sorry.  I’m just not buying he is only “peak human” in the MCU

 

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Ghost said:

Sorry.  I’m just not buying he is only “peak human” in the MCU

Given the kinds of things Black Widow or Hawkeye have been able to pull off, I think the capabilities of *everyone* in the MCU is quite a bit elevated...

[Excraft]

2 hours ago, Ghost said:

I didn’t mind him cutting through the wing or a car.  Since it’s Wakanda tech, it seemed plausible - just like him cutting the Red Hulk during their fight.

 

I understand it's supposed to be vibranium wings and the magical Wakanda can do whatever the script calls for tech, but the physics of it all looks ridiculous.  His wings cut through the wing of the jet like it was butter.  How?  Is it a lightsaber now?  It would be like a head on automobile collision between a dump truck and a sword.  The car would receive crushing damage, not get sliced in half no matter what the sword is made of.  The physics of something the size and weight of jet fighter traveling at near supersonic speed colliding into 200 lb Sam and nothing happens to him?  It doesn't make sense.  Also, how is he withstanding the g-forces traveling at supersonic speed without a pressure suit?

[Ghost]

Just now, Excraft said:

 

I understand it's supposed to be vibranium wings and the magical Wakanda can do whatever the script calls for tech, but the physics of it all looks ridiculous.  His wings cut through the wing of the jet like it was butter.  How?  Is it a lightsaber now?  It would be like a head on automobile collision between a dump truck and a sword.  The car would receive crushing damage, not get sliced in half no matter what the sword is made of.  The physics of something the size and weight of jet fighter traveling at near supersonic speed colliding into 200 lb Sam and nothing happens to him?  It doesn't make sense.  Also, how is he withstanding the g-forces traveling at supersonic speed without a pressure suit?

The wings tips were blades.  He used them as knives, and even shot them at people- so I’m guessing that why they decided they could cut things in half.

 

As for the G-Force - my best guess is that since it’s a vibranium suit, it can withstand it.  I guess?  I don’t know for sure.

 

Honestly, every superhero movie that’s ever been made could be picked apart for its lack of realism.  Every single one.  
In fact, that could probably be said about every movie ever made.

I understand that, but I don’t care.  I’m looking to be entertained and to see heroes I grew up reading about in comics, on the big screen.

[Excraft]

16 minutes ago, Ghost said:

The wings tips were blades.  He used them as knives, and even shot them at people- so I’m guessing that why they decided they could cut things in half.

 

Yeah, I get that.  The physics of it still don't make sense.  It's not just about how sharp a blade is. 

 

I get that there's some leeway in how things work, but at least to me, some things are a lot harder to believe and border on the ridiculous that takes you out of the suspension of disbelief.  It's like in the comics when they showed Wolverine swiping at and slicing a telephone pole in half with one strike.  Sure, his claws are sharp, but he doesn't have the physical strength required to generate enough force to physically do that.  Or like when the Hulk - who was shown to be able to rip apart/crush/dent Ultron who is constructed of much thicker layers of adamantium, isn't able to crush/bend/break Wolverine's adamantium-laced bones.  Wolverine may heal, but his adamantium doesn't. 

[biostem]

38 minutes ago, Excraft said:

The physics of something the size and weight of jet fighter traveling at near supersonic speed colliding into 200 lb Sam and nothing happens to him?  It doesn't make sense.  Also, how is he withstanding the g-forces traveling at supersonic speed without a pressure suit?

Well, I'm not saying it's good writing, and the MCU has been very inconsistent about this, but isn't Vibranium supposed to, essentially, absorb all energy applied to it, and one of the biggest breakthroughs the Wakandas made since discovering Vibranium, is being able to tap that energy to power vehicles and weapons?  Also, Stark withstood a collision with a jet and even withstood a tank round that knocked him out of the air, so there's got to be some sort of impact/g-force absorbing technology in relatively common use...

[Ghost]

8 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

Yeah, I get that.  The physics of it still don't make sense.  It's not just about how sharp a blade is. 

 

I get that there's some leeway in how things work, but at least to me, some things are a lot harder to believe and border on the ridiculous that takes you out of the suspension of disbelief.  It's like in the comics when they showed Wolverine swiping at and slicing a telephone pole in half with one strike.  Sure, his claws are sharp, but he doesn't have the physical strength required to generate enough force to physically do that.  Or like when the Hulk - who was shown to be able to rip apart/crush/dent Ultron who is constructed of much thicker layers of adamantium, isn't able to crush/bend/break Wolverine's adamantium-laced bones.  Wolverine may heal, but his adamantium doesn't. 

Guess it all comes down to, how much are you willing to overlook or how much disbelief are you willing to suspend.

 

I’m willing/able to overlook a lot for things I enjoy - superhero, Godzilla and horror movies.

Not so much for things I don’t.

[Excraft]

10 minutes ago, biostem said:

Also, Stark withstood a collision with a jet and even withstood a tank round that knocked him out of the air, so there's got to be some sort of impact/g-force absorbing technology in relatively common use...

 

Exactly.  He was knocked out of the air because the mass/kinetic energy of was greater than his.  If vibranium can absorb all kinetic energy, why was Sam knocked back when the Red Hulk punched him? 

[biostem]

18 minutes ago, Excraft said:

Exactly.  He was knocked out of the air because the mass/kinetic energy of was greater than his.  If vibranium can absorb all kinetic energy, why was Sam knocked back when the Red Hulk punched him? 

It'd be funny if he just stood there, "no-selling" all the attacks made against him.

 

EDIT:  Thinking about it even further, if Vibranium absorbed all energy directed against it, wouldn't that also include the force of you stepping to move forward - basically, you couldn't even walk, because the Vibranium suit absorbs the energy you are tying to impart to the ground, in order to walk.  Heck, Vibranium should also always appear like Vanta-black, since it should be absorbing even light.  Anything made of Vibranium should also be painfully cold and probably dull all sound around it...

Edited Tuesday at 11:27 PM by biostem

[Luminara]

13 minutes ago, biostem said:

if Vibranium absorbed all energy directed against it, wouldn't that also include the force of you stepping to move forward - basically, you couldn't even walk, because the Vibranium suit absorbs the energy you are tying to impart to the ground, in order to walk.  Heck, Vibranium should also always appear like Vanta-black, since it should be absorbing even light.  Anythign made of Vibranium should also be painfully cold and probably dull all sound around it...

 

 

[Techwright]

6 hours ago, Ghost said:

Let’s see….

-Jumped 20+ feet in the air while trying to fix the helicarrier

-kept a helicopter from taking off with one hand 

-ripped a log in half, with his bare hands

-held back Thanos hand

-leaps out of planes and lands safely without a parachute

 

Sorry.  I’m just not buying he is only “peak human” in the MCU

 

 

Though not Steve's actions, I would add to that list that, with the Thunderbolts* trailer included, we've now seen both Bucky and Captain Carter (in What If...?) each roll a 4-wheeled vehicle over their heads.  Steve, on the other hand, flipped a motorcycle over his head, embedding it deep into a jeep (Avengers: Age of Ultron).  MCU is either playing fast and loose with "peak human" for all super soldiers, or has a very different bar height in mind for what constitutes "peak human".

[ZacKing]

14 hours ago, biostem said:

EDIT:  Thinking about it even further, if Vibranium absorbed all energy directed against it, wouldn't that also include the force of you stepping to move forward - basically, you couldn't even walk, because the Vibranium suit absorbs the energy you are tying to impart to the ground, in order to walk.  Heck, Vibranium should also always appear like Vanta-black, since it should be absorbing even light.  Anything made of Vibranium should also be painfully cold and probably dull all sound around it...

 

Not only that, how does the shield bounce off things and ricochet on command?  Vibranium is supposed to absorb kinetic energy... so why doesn't it absorb the kinetic impact of being slammed into something?

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

4 hours ago, ZacKing said:

 

Not only that, how does the shield bounce off things and ricochet on command?  Vibranium is supposed to absorb kinetic energy... so why doesn't it absorb the kinetic impact of being slammed into something?

 

Vibranium's just amazing stuff.

Howard Stark modified it using P2C2E technology, causing the shield to emit a self-sustaining SEP field while in flight: plus Steve's and/or SuperPeggy's training, superhuman reflexes and supercharged intellect allow them to precisely calculate angles and weighting while in complex combat.

 

And in the fight between physics and a storyline... well. No contest.

 

EDIT: that may have come across a bit too sarcastic, because I was thinking it's just comic book/Hollywood physics, and obviously there's no real-world metal that Stan, Jack or Joe could have used that could do all that.

 

But then I just had this thought. When you give nerds a really interesting idea in science fiction...

...they're only gonna give it a go, aren't they?

 

 

So if you wanted something real that's incredibly strong, resistant to damage, lightweight enough to throw - well, for a superhuman anyway - and absorbs shock loading, may I introduce you to Copper-Tantalum Alloy?

Edited 6 hours ago by ThaOGDreamWeaver