Captain America: Brave New World

[Luminara]

On 1/30/2025 at 2:07 PM, Techwright said:

Clearly, American Secretary of State Ross was pulling the strings when the Sokovia Accords were active, but they've been repealed in the MCU story.    I can see Col. Rhodes being the one Avenger solely answerable to the US president, assuming he's still in the military, and not discharged for injury or court-martialed for disobedience towards Ross in Endgame.

 

The Secretary of Defense would be legally permitted to recall Sam Wilson to active duty.  That's not a comic book trope, it's a real law, so despite Wilson being retired from military duty, he's in the same boat as Rhodes.

[TTRPGWhiz]

It wasn't an American who invented the Super Solider serum...

[Techwright]

1 hour ago, TTRPGWhiz said:

It wasn't an American who invented the Super Solider serum...

 

Apologies, you lost me there.  To whose comment was yours referring? 

 

Yes, it was most certainly the German Jew, Dr. Abraham Erskine, who invented the first super soldier serum.  But it wasn't perfected until he reached the States and teamed with American Howard Stark, so in a way, an American had a junior-ranked hand in the invention of the serum, at least the stable version.  Howard Stark was also responsible for the first safe delivery system.  You'll recall from Captain America: Civil War that...

 

Spoiler

In part, Howard Stark was murdered as he was transporting a handful of Super Solider serum doses that he'd recreated, and that Hydra wanted in order to expand the Winter Soldier program.

 

[biostem]

4 hours ago, Techwright said:

Yes, it was most certainly the German Jew, Dr. Abraham Erskine, who invented the first super soldier serum.  But it wasn't perfected until he reached the States and teamed with American Howard Stark, so in a way, an American had a junior-ranked hand in the invention of the serum, at least the stable version.  Howard Stark was also responsible for the first safe delivery system.  You'll recall from Captain America: Civil War that...

 

That makes me wonder - just how important was the vita-ray exposure part of the process, and how was Red Skulls serum administered.  From a poetic standpoint, I interpret Red Skull's appearance as reflective of his inner evil, but what about...

Spoiler

The super soldiers from Falcon & The Winter Soldier - we know they recreated the serum, but I don't recall seeing their version of the chamber that Rogers was placed in when he received his serum...

 

[Techwright]

46 minutes ago, biostem said:

 

That makes me wonder - just how important was the vita-ray exposure part of the process, and how was Red Skulls serum administered.  From a poetic standpoint, I interpret Red Skull's appearance as reflective of his inner evil, but what about...

  Hide contents

The super soldiers from Falcon & The Winter Soldier - we know they recreated the serum, but I don't recall seeing their version of the chamber that Rogers was placed in when he received his serum...

 

Good questions!

 

First, regarding the Vita-Ray exposure:  The process was really two simultaneous processes: the administration of the super soldier serum, and due to Steve's diminutive and frail stature, the administration of the Vita-Ray process to induce growth on a massively fast scale.  It likely would not have been needed for the average soldier, although in "What If...?" alternate Peggy Carter dove into the machine and came out Captain Carter at a noticeable growth.  A comment is made that she no longer needs high heels.   Presumably an average soldier would come out looking pretty Thor-like.  It likely was designed to allow other "bantam weight" men such as Steve to undergo the process with similar results.

 

Second: Regarding the Red Skull, we actually see him inject himself rather than go through a Vita-Ray machine.  This confirms the serum was separate from the Vita-Ray process.  Dr. Erskin told Steve that Johann Schmidt had not listened to him and had used an imperfect serum.  We saw Schmidt taking other scientific risks in the movie, confirming he has an impatient nature.  The damage done, loss of the nose, the red skull look, was a result of that imperfection.  And yes, Erskin confirms the imperfect serum brought out the worst of Schmidt.  Also to note, Dr. Zola managed to create his own stable version, which Bucky received unwillingly.  Again, a Vita-Ray machine was not necessary.

 

Third: Regarding the hidden contents:

Spoiler

We learn within The Falcon and The Winter Soldier, from the guy hiding out in the ocean-container laboratory, that he perfected what Erskin started.  In other words, he found additional ways to refine and improve on Erskin's design, which meant that a bottle with a needle was all that was necessary.   It is possible that a level of this was already achieved.  In Captain America: Civil War we see Howard Stark transferring about 1/2 dozen small IV bags with the serum in it, which implies all that was needed at that time (early 1990s) was an IV line.

 

 

 

Edited February 4 by Techwright

[TTRPGWhiz]

5 hours ago, Techwright said:

 

Apologies, you lost me there.  To whose comment was yours referring? 

 

Yes, it was most certainly the German Jew, Dr. Abraham Erskine, who invented the first super soldier serum.  But it wasn't perfected until he reached the States and teamed with American Howard Stark, so in a way, an American had a junior-ranked hand in the invention of the serum, at least the stable version.  Howard Stark was also responsible for the first safe delivery system.  You'll recall from Captain America: Civil War that...

 

  Hide contents

In part, Howard Stark was murdered as he was transporting a handful of Super Solider serum doses that he'd recreated, and that Hydra wanted in order to expand the Winter Soldier program.

 

Sorry, I was referring to the “Ross wouldn’t want non-American tech” or whatever it was.

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, TTRPGWhiz said:

Sorry, I was referring to the “Ross wouldn’t want non-American tech” or whatever it was.

Gear provided by a foreign government is not the same as bringing in a foreign-born scientist to work on a US government program, though.

[ZacKing]

Review embargo is now lifted for CA: BNW.  It's not looking good. 

 

https://www.superherohype.com/movies/592870-captain-america-4-rotten-tomatoes-metacritic-scores

 

https://www.superherohype.com/news/592818-captain-america-4-brave-new-world-mixed-reactions-anthony-mackie

 

 

[Ghost]

1 hour ago, ZacKing said:

Review embargo is now lifted for CA: BNW.  It's not looking good. 

 

https://www.superherohype.com/movies/592870-captain-america-4-rotten-tomatoes-metacritic-scores

 

https://www.superherohype.com/news/592818-captain-america-4-brave-new-world-mixed-reactions-anthony-mackie

 

 

Noo

How could this be?

[Techwright]

Rotten Tomatoes score (R.T.) / Metacritic score (M.C.):

 

Thor: The Dark World: R.T. = 67, M.C. = 54

The Marvels: R.T. = 62, M.C. = 50

Eternals: R.T. = 47, M.C. = 52

Captain America 4:  R.T = 52, M.C. = 43

Ant Man and the Wasp: Quantumania: R.T. = 46, M.C. = 48

 

 

I didn't include the D+ projects, though I'll report that the hated Secret Invasion scored R.T. = 53, M.C. = 63 which would put it between the top two in this list.

 

So not the worst one out there, but definitely not far from it.  It's pretty much tied with Eternals.

 

EDIT: Cap 4's score adjusted to show current status as of Feb 12 @ 6:30pm EDT USA.

Edited February 12 by Techwright

[Without_Pause]

4 hours ago, Techwright said:

Rotten Tomatoes score (R.T.) / Metacritic score (M.C.):

 

Thor: The Dark World: R.T. = 67, M.C. = 54

The Marvels: R.T. = 62, M.C. = 50

Eternals: R.T. = 47, M.C. = 52

Captain America 4:  R.T = 52, M.C. = 43

Ant Man and the Wasp: Quantumania: R.T. = 46, M.C. = 48

 

 

I didn't include the D+ projects, though I'll report that the hated Secret Invasion scored R.T. = 53, M.C. = 63 which would put it between the top two in this list.

 

So not the worst one out there, but definitely not far from it.  It's pretty much tied with Eternals.

 

EDIT: Cap 4's score adjusted to show current status as of Feb 12 @ 6:30pm EDT USA.

The worrisome aspect is it is that low of a score, and it isn't even out yet. 

[BrandX]

Most of the reviews I've seen have all said the same thing.  It's okay.  I wouldn't pay to much attention to the RT score, as that seems to be wanting Endgame level MCU movies now.  They gave Thor Love & Thunder 63% and I'd wager it's the worst of these two movies.

 

Hell, I still think Dark World is the worst MCU movie and that The Marvels got to much hate because of Brie and people being tired of whatever they consider woke or that it's be all man bashing.

 

That said, got my ticket for tonight! \o/ 

[BrandX]

Seen it and enjoyed it.  

[Techwright]

34 minutes ago, BrandX said:

Seen it and enjoyed it.  

 

Thanks for making that point.  May I assume you've seen all, or most, of the MCU movies?  After seeing it, where would you place it if your were ranking it alongside the others?

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, Techwright said:

 

Thanks for making that point.  May I assume you've seen all, or most, of the MCU movies?  After seeing it, where would you place it if your were ranking it alongside the others?

 

First let me say that can be hard.  Like I still consider Thor: Dark World as the worst of the MCU and I'm not that fond of Black Panther 2 or Thor: Love and Thunder, but at least for Dark World and Wakanda Forever, I've heard people say how good they think they are.

 

I'm also not that fond of Iron Man 2.  However, I think most of them have some good things about them.  I'd also say I think Eternals issue is the director and some obvious, for lack of a better word, woke aspects of it, but it had moments.

 

I also quite enjoy The Marvels, but I see it as nothing more than a fun movie, not peak cinema/MCU.

 

I'll still say Winter Soldier is one of the best of the MCU movies.

 

I'd put it in the middle of the pack but maybe closer to the top than the bottom?  Or possibly tied for middle with a bunch of others.  It did need some work.  Can't say I'm keen on the new Falcon and you may need to know some of the The Falcon & the Winter Soldier show to truly appreciate it, I think, to know some of the characters (like new Falcon, Isiah Bradley).

[Techwright]

36 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

First let me say that can be hard.  Like I still consider Thor: Dark World as the worst of the MCU and I'm not that fond of Black Panther 2 or Thor: Love and Thunder, but at least for Dark World and Wakanda Forever, I've heard people say how good they think they are.

 

I'm also not that fond of Iron Man 2.  However, I think most of them have some good things about them.  I'd also say I think Eternals issue is the director and some obvious, for lack of a better word, woke aspects of it, but it had moments.

 

I also quite enjoy The Marvels, but I see it as nothing more than a fun movie, not peak cinema/MCU.

 

I'll still say Winter Soldier is one of the best of the MCU movies.

 

I'd put it in the middle of the pack but maybe closer to the top than the bottom?  Or possibly tied for middle with a bunch of others.  It did need some work.  Can't say I'm keen on the new Falcon and you may need to know some of the The Falcon & the Winter Soldier show to truly appreciate it, I think, to know some of the characters (like new Falcon, Isiah Bradley).

That seems reasonable.  I've seen The Falcon & The Winter Soldier, so I'm aware of the characters named.  (I liked about 50% of that production. The "You're free" scene with Bucky was amazing.)  Most of the ones you named as poor or unlikeable I agree with.  Iron Man 2 I apparently had a greater fondness for, but it definitely needed something else added to it.  And yeah, Winter Soldier is usually in people's top 3. 

 

Middle of the pack is surprising, but intriguing.  Still not sure that I'll see it in theaters, but if it goes to D+ quickly, as I suspect, I might resubscribe to see that and catch up on some other things.

[PeregrineFalcon]

Spoiler FREE review:

 

 

[SeraphimKensai]

Haven't seen it, but a friend of mine that even like Morbius thought BNW was trash. That said I'm sure the best Brave New World will always be Huxley's BNW (such a great book).

[Excraft]

58 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Haven't seen it, but a friend of mine that even like Morbius thought BNW was trash. That said I'm sure the best Brave New World will always be Huxley's BNW (such a great book).

 

My brother took the kids to see it and said it stunk.  He said you could tell this movie was re-shot a number of times as the story seemed disjointed in quite a few places, and certain story elements were clearly geared toward not offending certain international audiences.  His biggest gripe was what they did with the Red Hulk and Ross.  Beyond that, he said it wasn't "The Marvels" bad, but still not great. 

[BrandX]

9 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Haven't seen it, but a friend of mine that even like Morbius thought BNW was trash. That said I'm sure the best Brave New World will always be Huxley's BNW (such a great book).

 

I've seen Morbius and that movie sucked.  BNW is no where near that bad.  Sony Marvel movies are trash.

[battlewraith]

Looks like it's doing well at the box office so far. It had a 100 million dollar opening weekend, which has exceeded expectations.

[Apogee]

15 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

I've seen Morbius and that movie sucked.

 

:rimshot

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

5 hours ago, battlewraith said:

Looks like it's doing well at the box office so far. It had a 100 million dollar opening weekend, which has exceeded expectations.

Yup. Not sure how to compare it, as there's about 13 years of inflation, COVID and movie-palace-luxurification and whatnot between them, but it's already beaten First Avenger and Winter Soldier's opening weekends. Then again, February is not exactly your tentpole month for movies, and the D+ drain of people who'll wait for streaming is a big ol' chunk these days. (Me included).

 

Will it have legs - or wings, I guess?

[ZacKing]

8 hours ago, battlewraith said:

Looks like it's doing well at the box office so far. It had a 100 million dollar opening weekend, which has exceeded expectations.

 

No, it's not doing well.  

 

100 million is about 1/10th of what this movie will need to make just to break even.  It's done better than The Marvels (which honestly isn't hard to do), but worse than Ant-Man and The Wasp: Quantumania.  Given the very lackluster reviews, we can fully expect the box office numbers for CA: BNW to crater the following weekend. 

 

 

No way this film comes close to breaking even. 

[ZacKing]

2 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

but it's already beaten First Avenger and Winter Soldier's opening weekends.

 

No, it has not beaten the opening weekend numbers for Winter Solider. 

 

Winter Soldier - $95,023,721

BNW - $87,800,000