Ice Secondary Rework Call for Blasters

[Solarverse]

I am about to request a rework of Ice Secondary for Blasters.

 

Now...before you slam me and claim you think Ice Secondary is fine as is, then tell me...why I have never seen anyone play Ice Secondary? Not once since the game has been back. Furthermore, I have only seen maybe 4 tops on live. So before you tell me that Ice Secondary is fine, please show me a character of yours who has Ice Secondary as a Blaster that you have leveled and actually played.

 

Now, on to my issue with Ice. I feel nobody plays it because people feel that there are MANY better choices. Ice is sadly lacking compared to other Secondaries and it always has been lacking.

 

How would you feel if the Devs did a total rehaul of Ice Secondaries for Blasters?

[Vanden]

Ice Secondary is perfectly fine. I play it and like it how it is. Good control and many tools to keep enemies out of melee range.

[malonkey1]

In what way do you feel it needs a rework? Are there any specific powers that you feel are below par?

[Solarverse]

Ice Secondary is perfectly fine. I play it and like it how it is. Good control and many tools to keep enemies out of melee range.

 

I trust you. Known you a very long time on the boards. I used to be Wraiven on the original boards. However, tell me, if Ice is so fine as is, why is it that hardly anyone plays the set? I would love to see a chart of hard numbers, of how many people in game actually play Ice Secondary.

 

As far as it having good control tools, I disagree. I find those tools to be sub par at best. Sleeps are not very good tools against mobs in a team setting. Ice patch is good if you melee a lot, the damage of the secondary set is very weak, I honestly, no snark intended...can't see how you find this set useful.

 

I respect your thoughts, so if I am missing something here, please help me out, cause I can't see it.

[Solarverse]

In what way do you feel it needs a rework? Are there any specific powers that you feel are below par?

 

I have some ideas, but before I go in to any details, I want to first find out how many people actually play the set, why they do, or why they don't and see if it would even be worth my time to put forth my ideas.

 

These are the forums. People on forums almost always contradict what I see in game, and most people dislike change. So I know I am treading on thin Ice here.

 

Depending on how this discussion goes, will be the determining factor of whether or not I put forth my suggested changes.

[Vanden]

You don’t have to go into melee range to use Ice Patch; enemies will run straight at you so you can just drop it and back off, and they’ll run right into it trying to get to you. Frigid Protection and Shiver both ruin enemy movement speed, giving you time to pick them off before they get to you. Frozen Aura is bad, sure, but buffing it to be worthwhile wouldn’t require a rework.

[Bossk_Hogg]

Does Blaster Frozen aura really not do damage? Why? Sleeps are basically garbage.

 

Ice Sword and Frozen Fists should get increased recharge and damage. You don't want to hang out in melee range chaining moderate damage attacks that deal the same damage as your blasts. Get in, hit hard, and get out. Right now they are somewhat pointless, particularly as your attack chain fills.

[Solarverse]

You don’t have to go into melee range to use Ice Patch; enemies will run straight at you so you can just drop it and back off, and they’ll run right into it trying to get to you. Frigid Protection and Shiver both ruin enemy movement speed, giving you time to pick them off before they get to you. Frozen Aura is bad, sure, but buffing it to be worthwhile wouldn’t require a rework.

 

Most of the changes I have in mind are adding a damage component to most abilities that have none. I would also like to see Ice Sword Circle replace Frozen Aura...or...buff it. So only one suggestion I have would change the control aspect of the set. More details later though on that.

[Jon]

Sleeps are not very good tools against mobs in a team setting.

 

Just quoting this bit to add that I think that Sleeps need to be fundamentally reworked because as it is now, sleep is one of the most useless types of mez in this game. Sure, it has use solo, but so little of this game is played solo that most sets with sleeps regard those powers as skippable. The only sleep power I have ever used that actually felt worthwhile was Static Field because of how it pulses and reapplies the sleep after an enemy is woken up from it. In my opinion, this highlights a huge problem with the way other sleeps work mechanically.

 

This kind of falls out of the scope of this thread, of course, but I would not say no to some improvements to Ice Manipulation. I do agree with the idea that the set probably just needs some numbers tweaked or some individual powers buffed rather than a complete overhaul.

[LadyDee]

On live, my second character was an ice/ice/ice blaster. I enjoyed her so much I bumped her from alt to my main.

 

Upon the return of the game, instead of choosing something different among the numerous power set options, I remade my ice/ice/ice blaster. And it’s still lots of fun. 

 

Is secondary perfect? No. But no secondary power set is. That is why it is called: secondary.

 

My blaster is an old school type – hover and shoot. This means I do not use ice sword or ice fists.

 

So, what do I take?

 

Chilblain is a must have. Its good against flying targets.

 

Frigid Protection. Uh yeah of course I have this. I mainly use this for the stamina and health benefits. The slow is nice to help group up enemies when I am soloing or hanging with a friend.

 

Ice patch. This is another must have for me. You do not need to be a blapper to use this. It is great to toss this down on the ground and followed up by Blizzard. Its nice to have when you are in groups to help clump things up for the tank. It’s a very versatile power to have on hand. My only complaint is I really wish the patch was larger. Not the size of the controller’s ice patch just something larger than a dinner plate.

 

Build-up is one of those, “Duh! Of course, you take this power!”

 

Shiver, I use all the time on tough enemies, like bosses, elites and archvillains/heroes.

 

I have never taken Freezing touch or Frozen Aura. I have never been a fan of sleep powers in any game. And as for Freezing Touch I already have a hold in my primary.

Want to talk about what does need a revamp? Bitter Freeze Ray.

 

I decided to try this power out on the behest of a fellow friend who also has ice as a primary. OMG! It is horrible. Yes, it does a lot of damage. BUT there were two issues for me: 1. The animation to cast is so long and 2. The animation looks like I have a constipation problem. Yeah, I dropped it right quick.

 

As for not seeing ice as a popular secondary, well who cares. I have seen several players who chose ice as a secondary. And yeah, they had a different set up then mine. Which is fine nothing wrong with that.

 

What we need to remember is there are lots of options for people to choose from. Some people like to spice things up and go with something newer. Others tend to follow what is the “IN” powerset.

 

Those who do choose the ice secondary may go the route of a blapper or others – like myself—may choose more control. And

I’ve seen a few that fell in-between.

 

Ice secondary is not for everyone. As are many secondary power sets. And on top of that not everyone takes every single power in their secondary set.

 

Perhaps that “broken feeling,” you are experiencing is the game telling you, “This is not the secondary for you. Choose another.”

 

Furthermore, just because a secondary power set is not the “popular kid,” does not mean it is broken either.

 

Does blaster secondary need a rework?

 

A few minor tweaks of what I mentioned earlier in this reply, but a complete rework? No.

 

[Leogunner]

My issue is that players min/max either their build or their teams.

 

I've been on teams that were NOT up to the task of +4/x8 on a mid level (lvl 20-33) but still waste their time, struggle, whiff and crawl their way to mission end rather than just setting the difficulty to a normal level (seriously, **** you team leaders who have zero defense debuffs or ToHit buffs in the team expecting lvl 18s to hit purples with any kind of consistency lol).

 

There's also the expectation of requiring normal set-ups or just giving up/swapping to an overpowered character to get a team to work.  It marginalizes non-standard set-ups thus, a Controlly Blaster is less valuable.

 

I have no issue having a controlly blaster not having as much value as a bursty blaster, but that isn't really a problem with the sets.  If you want Ice Secondary to shine, make a team without dedicated control and a non-standard tank.  Suddenly, Ice secondary can be a great boon.

 

"It's still garbage. A dead mob can't do damage" to which I say, have fun with all your characters sharing literally the same 3 sets of powersets lol

[Solarverse]

Ice is my favorite theme of any game I have ever played. I want so badly to pick up Ice as a secondary, but I can't justify it until it gets a little love. Something people keep forgetting, and this is something I have conveyed before...Blasters are DPS, not Controllers. So if we are going to add control to the set (which is fine) we should not be sacrificing no more than a fair amount of DPS for the control. As it stands now, Ice Secondary's DPS is almost not even worth talking about. So...how do we fix this? Well, first, for those of you who love it as is, and want to keep the powers as is, I feel like I can work with that. My idea is as follows...

 

Chilblain: Leave as is. This power needs nothing and is perfect just as it stands now.

 

Frozen Fists: Bring this power in line with other Blaster sets. Ice is heavily missing Single Target Damage for Melee range. Bring it in line with Elec, putting it close to between Charged Brawl and Havoc Punch, bringing the DPS up from a base value of 55.61 Smashing, 35.59 Cold (91.2) to 55.61 Smashing, 55.61 Cold (111.22). Not a huge increase, but a worthy one.

 

Ice Sword: Bring this power up from 55.61 Lethal, 53.39 Cold (109) to 60.31 Lethal, 60.69 Cold (121). Again, not a huge increase, but one which does the set a tad bit of justice.

 

Frigid Protection: Nothing, leave as is.

 

Build Up: Nothing, leave as is.

 

Ice Patch: Add a small DOT, ticking 3 Lethal Damage every 1 second base damage. Make the Ice Spikes animation of Ice Patch (assuming it is the same animation as an Ice Tank's Ice Patch) look like they are actually doing damage. This alone is not much, however, if you stack with what is to come, it can add up to be a nice bit of DPS.

 

Shiver: Add a DOT, ticking 4 base Cold damage once per second for 8 seconds. 32 total Damage. Add the crackling freeze animation to enemy target hit.

 

Freezing Touch: Change from 10.57 damage for 6 seconds, increase to 15.5 for 8 seconds. Grand total of 124.

 

Frozen Aura: (Ice Sword Circle) This is where it gets tricky. I would prefer this be changed to Ice Sword Circle, one large lump hit for 63.59 Lethal Damage, 24.46 Cold Damage (88.05).

 

However, if this is something people must keep the same (I'm obviously not a supporter of keeping it the same) then add another DOT to this and increase the damage by a factor of 9. It would look something like this;

 

Frozen Aura: (Frozen Aura) Add a DOT of 9.71 Lethal Damage per second for 10 seconds (97.1) and change it from a sleep to an Immobilize.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

[Primantis]

Sleeps are not very good tools against mobs in a team setting.

 

Just quoting this bit to add that I think that Sleeps need to be fundamentally reworked because as it is now, sleep is one of the most useless types of mez in this game. Sure, it has use solo, but so little of this game is played solo that most sets with sleeps regard those powers as skippable. The only sleep power I have ever used that actually felt worthwhile was Static Field because of how it pulses and reapplies the sleep after an enemy is woken up from it. In my opinion, this highlights a huge problem with the way other sleeps work mechanically.

 

This kind of falls out of the scope of this thread, of course, but I would not say no to some improvements to Ice Manipulation. I do agree with the idea that the set probably just needs some numbers tweaked or some individual powers buffed rather than a complete overhaul.

 

 

 

I always thought some sort of randomness to sleep might help it a bit. Instead of a 100% chance to wake the target, make it around 25%. Enough to make it worth it to put them to sleep, but also risky enough to prevent it from being a "hard" mez. Also prevents it from being to similar to how Fear functions. (Since Feared targets retaliate but then go back to being Feared)

 

 

Even in the real world. If a person is put under for medical reasons, they don't instantly wake up as soon as the doctor pokes them with the scalpel. I would like to think super abilities are at least as potent as the drugs they use to put us under in the OR or even the dentist chair.

[Jon]

Sleeps are not very good tools against mobs in a team setting.

 

Just quoting this bit to add that I think that Sleeps need to be fundamentally reworked because as it is now, sleep is one of the most useless types of mez in this game. Sure, it has use solo, but so little of this game is played solo that most sets with sleeps regard those powers as skippable. The only sleep power I have ever used that actually felt worthwhile was Static Field because of how it pulses and reapplies the sleep after an enemy is woken up from it. In my opinion, this highlights a huge problem with the way other sleeps work mechanically.

 

This kind of falls out of the scope of this thread, of course, but I would not say no to some improvements to Ice Manipulation. I do agree with the idea that the set probably just needs some numbers tweaked or some individual powers buffed rather than a complete overhaul.

 

 

 

I always thought some sort of randomness to sleep might help it a bit. Instead of a 100% chance to wake the target, make it around 25%. Enough to make it worth it to put them to sleep, but also risky enough to prevent it from being a "hard" mez. Also prevents it from being to similar to how Fear functions. (Since Feared targets retaliate but then go back to being Feared)

 

 

Even in the real world. If a person is put under for medical reasons, they don't instantly wake up as soon as the doctor pokes them with the scalpel. I would like to think super abilities are at least as potent as the drugs they use to put us under in the OR or even the dentist chair.

 

That is an interesting solution that I would definitely be interested in. Another one that a friend of mine came up with was adding an increased crit chance mechanic to sleeps so that waking a sleeping enemy up with an attack will net you extra crit damage. The idea is that sleeping would make the enemy extra vulnerable, which conceptually makes sense to me.

[Tahliah]

My main on live and on Homecoming is an ice/ice/ice blaster. I used the secondary powerset (/ice manipulation) to its fullest . . . for the way I play the game.  My main is also my badger, so I need to be able to mitigate aggro when I solo content for badges, and that is the strong part of /ice manipulation.

 

Chilblain, as you've noted yourself, is a very useful power.  Not only does it drop flying targets, but it's a handy place for frankenslotting.

 

I'm a blaster, so I think range and don't take both melee powers; however, it's crazy to think that you will never be in melee range of foes, particularly at lower levels where shiny-seekers seem to find themselves.  For this, I not only pick up Sands of Mu from the P2W vendor, but I opt for ice sword.  If a baddie gets within melee range of me (and I'm on the ground), I'll drop ice patch and giggle while the biggest baddest baddies flop around and then take them out with my ice sword (or my range attacks, which work equally well at short range).

 

I don't take Chilling Embrace, but that's just because I would rather have other pool powers.  It's not a bad power, I just think about my build/where to put the sets I need/want.

 

Of course I take Build Up, Ice Patch, and Shiver.  Build up is a no-brainer, as is ice patch, but I take shiver because it is a good power.  There's another thread on this very topic, but I love Shiver and think it's an excellent power, particularly if you solo content (aka badge hunt).

 

I have neither of the two last powers in /ice manipulation, but again, this is just my personal choice.  I like the epic power pool sleep better because it hits more than one target, and i prefer to have snow storm than anything that assumes at a higher level I can't stay out of melee range (or mitigate if I'm stuck with blizzard, ice patch, ice sword, etc. and etc.). 

 

So I guess if I were to make changes to /ice, it would be in the last two powers.  My guess is that the devs wanted an option for a /ice blapper, but I would not, personally, take this route on ice/ice.  It may be fine for other primaries, but for ice, to me, it just doesn't make sense.  The primary powers are about dealing quick death and mitigating incoming damage . . . from afar, so top tier /ice melee powers seems counterintuitive.

 

That said, I'm sure people play them just fine. It's just not for me.

 

Ultimately, that's the bottom line, though.  Sure, we could get better ice manipulation powers for the last two power choices, but we have to weigh in everything else.  If you're building a blapper with /ice, you will want both early melee powers (fists and sword) and the top tier ones.  You'll also want tough and weave and other powers in which to dump some defense/resist procs.  So you balance out which range powers you can take with the melee. 

 

That's how the game is supposed to work.  You build the toon you want to play.  If you want to redo /ice manipulation, then what do you offer to people who don't want to play your toon?  I like the options and the possibilities afforded by /ice.  I wouldn't change a thing.

 

 

[Bossk_Hogg]

Sleeps are not very good tools against mobs in a team setting.

 

Just quoting this bit to add that I think that Sleeps need to be fundamentally reworked because as it is now, sleep is one of the most useless types of mez in this game. Sure, it has use solo, but so little of this game is played solo that most sets with sleeps regard those powers as skippable. The only sleep power I have ever used that actually felt worthwhile was Static Field because of how it pulses and reapplies the sleep after an enemy is woken up from it. In my opinion, this highlights a huge problem with the way other sleeps work mechanically.

 

This kind of falls out of the scope of this thread, of course, but I would not say no to some improvements to Ice Manipulation. I do agree with the idea that the set probably just needs some numbers tweaked or some individual powers buffed rather than a complete overhaul.

 

 

 

I always thought some sort of randomness to sleep might help it a bit. Instead of a 100% chance to wake the target, make it around 25%. Enough to make it worth it to put them to sleep, but also risky enough to prevent it from being a "hard" mez. Also prevents it from being to similar to how Fear functions. (Since Feared targets retaliate but then go back to being Feared)

 

 

Even in the real world. If a person is put under for medical reasons, they don't instantly wake up as soon as the doctor pokes them with the scalpel. I would like to think super abilities are at least as potent as the drugs they use to put us under in the OR or even the dentist chair.

 

That is an interesting solution that I would definitely be interested in. Another one that a friend of mine came up with was adding an increased crit chance mechanic to sleeps so that waking a sleeping enemy up with an attack will net you extra crit damage. The idea is that sleeping would make the enemy extra vulnerable, which conceptually makes sense to me.

 

I'd be OK if they got the fear treatment, where waking them would let them attack then they would fall asleep again.  Sleeps are all but useless in modern COH.

[Bossk_Hogg]

I'm a blaster, so I think range and don't take both melee powers; however, it's crazy to think that you will never be in melee range of foes, particularly at lower levels where shiny-seekers seem to find themselves.  For this, I not only pick up Sands of Mu from the P2W vendor, but I opt for ice sword.  If a baddie gets within melee range of me (and I'm on the ground), I'll drop ice patch and giggle while the biggest baddest baddies flop around and then take them out with my ice sword (or my range attacks, which work equally well at short range).

 

The problem with the melee attacks in Ice Manipulation (and some other blaster sets) is they're pointless. Ice Blast deals 102 damage on an 8 second recharge. Frozen Fists deals 91 damage on an 8 second recharge. It isnt needed to fill an attack chain, so why are you in melee to deal less damage? Energy Melee gets this mostly right. Bone Smasher has a 14 second recharge, but deals 144 damage.

 

Blaps need to have a longer recharge and hit harder to make the risk of entering melee worthwhile. Particularly given the changes to snipes, the blaps need to be re-examined to make them useful. Dealing the equivalent of a tier 2 blast in melee range is poor design.

 

At minimum, the following powers need changes to recharge and damage to give them a niche.

 

Ice - Frozen Fists, Ice Sword

Martial Assault - Storm Kick

Mental - Mind Probe

Ninja Training -Sting of the Wasp, Golden Dragonfly

 

Others might need tweaks, but these are so redundant and low damage as to be waste of power choices.

[Tahliah]

[quote author=Bossk_Hogg link=topic=5876.msg48516#msg48516 date=1561763266

 

The problem with the melee attacks in Ice Manipulation (and some other blaster sets) is they're pointless. Ice Blast deals 102 damage on an 8 second recharge. Frozen Fists deals 91 damage on an 8 second recharge. It isnt needed to fill an attack chain, so why are you in melee to deal less damage? Energy Melee gets this mostly right. Bone Smasher has a 14 second recharge, but deals 144 damage.

 

Blaps need to have a longer recharge and hit harder to make the risk of entering melee worthwhile. Particularly given the changes to snipes, the blaps need to be re-examined to make them useful. Dealing the equivalent of a tier 2 blast in melee range is poor design.

 

At minimum, the following powers need changes to recharge and damage to give them a niche.

 

Ice - Frozen Fists, Ice Sword

Martial Assault - Storm Kick

Mental - Mind Probe

Ninja Training -Sting of the Wasp, Golden Dragonfly

 

Others might need tweaks, but these are so redundant and low damage as to be waste of power choices.

 

 

Maybe we are all talking at cross purposes.  If I'm playing an ice/ice blaster, I don't care if my melee numbers are below par for a scrapper.  I'm a blaster.  The only thing I need ice sword (or fists) to do is finish off an almost dead baddie that has somehow managed to still be alive and then slipped on my ice patch. 

 

Typically, though, in normal game play over (say) level 15-20, no baddie gets that close to me.  I fly, I kite, I am nictus!  Oh, wait, I'm not nictus, but I'm also not standing in one spot hoping to draw some baddie into melee range.  Ideally, I will go months without ever allowing a baddie that close to me.  But when it does happen (and it does), I can deal with it because anyone who gets that close to me is going to be nearly dead, unable to recharge or hit.  A quick slash with my ice sword, and he is finished. 

 

But I run a blaster not a blapper, so ymmv.

[Vanden]

Is it possible to do over-time effects besides damage and healing? For example, make it so Frozen Aura's sleep effect sticks to the enemies and continually builds sleep magnitude on them, so even if something wakes up they'll soon freeze again. I know Electric Control has that sleep patch, but that's not what I mean; that's a pseudo-pet continually attacking anything in its range.

[Solarverse]

Is it possible to do over-time effects besides damage and healing? For example, make it so Frozen Aura's sleep effect sticks to the enemies and continually builds sleep magnitude on them, so even if something wakes up they'll soon freeze again. I know Electric Control has that sleep patch, but that's not what I mean; that's a pseudo-pet continually attacking anything in its range.

 

I think the issue with that, is that it makes Sleep feel too much like Fear. I wouldn't be against it, but I think others would have something to say about it, heh.

[Bossk_Hogg]

 

The problem with the melee attacks in Ice Manipulation (and some other blaster sets) is they're pointless. Ice Blast deals 102 damage on an 8 second recharge. Frozen Fists deals 91 damage on an 8 second recharge. It isnt needed to fill an attack chain, so why are you in melee to deal less damage? Energy Melee gets this mostly right. Bone Smasher has a 14 second recharge, but deals 144 damage.

 

Blaps need to have a longer recharge and hit harder to make the risk of entering melee worthwhile. Particularly given the changes to snipes, the blaps need to be re-examined to make them useful. Dealing the equivalent of a tier 2 blast in melee range is poor design.

 

At minimum, the following powers need changes to recharge and damage to give them a niche.

 

Ice - Frozen Fists, Ice Sword

Martial Assault - Storm Kick

Mental - Mind Probe

Ninja Training -Sting of the Wasp, Golden Dragonfly

 

Others might need tweaks, but these are so redundant and low damage as to be waste of power choices.

 

 

Maybe we are all talking at cross purposes.  If I'm playing an ice/ice blaster, I don't care if my melee numbers are below par for a scrapper.  I'm a blaster.  The only thing I need ice sword (or fists) to do is finish off an almost dead baddie that has somehow managed to still be alive and then slipped on my ice patch. 

 

Typically, though, in normal game play over (say) level 15-20, no baddie gets that close to me.  I fly, I kite, I am nictus!  Oh, wait, I'm not nictus, but I'm also not standing in one spot hoping to draw some baddie into melee range.  Ideally, I will go months without ever allowing a baddie that close to me.  But when it does happen (and it does), I can deal with it because anyone who gets that close to me is going to be nearly dead, unable to recharge or hit.  A quick slash with my ice sword, and he is finished. 

 

But I run a blaster not a blapper, so ymmv.

 

Why don't you hit them with your fast recharging blasts that deal equal or greater damage? You can easily form a complete attack chain without them on any set. As such, they're pointless options that only exist if you want to lower your DPS and increase your risk.

 

Mechanically, they are bad and should be fixed.

[Bossk_Hogg]

Is it possible to do over-time effects besides damage and healing? For example, make it so Frozen Aura's sleep effect sticks to the enemies and continually builds sleep magnitude on them, so even if something wakes up they'll soon freeze again. I know Electric Control has that sleep patch, but that's not what I mean; that's a pseudo-pet continually attacking anything in its range.

 

I think the issue with that, is that it makes Sleep feel too much like Fear. I wouldn't be against it, but I think others would have something to say about it, heh.

 

Who the hell are the sleep white knights?

[Solarverse]

Is it possible to do over-time effects besides damage and healing? For example, make it so Frozen Aura's sleep effect sticks to the enemies and continually builds sleep magnitude on them, so even if something wakes up they'll soon freeze again. I know Electric Control has that sleep patch, but that's not what I mean; that's a pseudo-pet continually attacking anything in its range.

 

I think the issue with that, is that it makes Sleep feel too much like Fear. I wouldn't be against it, but I think others would have something to say about it, heh.

 

Who the hell are the sleep white knights?

 

That makes no sense. What do you mean? Please explain.

[Bossk_Hogg]

Is it possible to do over-time effects besides damage and healing? For example, make it so Frozen Aura's sleep effect sticks to the enemies and continually builds sleep magnitude on them, so even if something wakes up they'll soon freeze again. I know Electric Control has that sleep patch, but that's not what I mean; that's a pseudo-pet continually attacking anything in its range.

 

I think the issue with that, is that it makes Sleep feel too much like Fear. I wouldn't be against it, but I think others would have something to say about it, heh.

 

 

Who the hell are the sleep white knights?

 

That makes no sense. What do you mean? Please explain.

 

 

What I'm saying is, who actually thinks this would overpower sleeps, or that sleeps are fine as is? They're the worst of the soft control powers, and are routinely listed as skipable. Fear power are flat out better, and typically have a substantial to-hit penalty as well.

 

Electric control's sleeps re-apply. That should probably be proliferated to other sets. At minimum, make a good IO set that has such a proc in it that guarantees it will reapply through the sleep's duration..

[Leogunner]

Is it possible to do over-time effects besides damage and healing? For example, make it so Frozen Aura's sleep effect sticks to the enemies and continually builds sleep magnitude on them, so even if something wakes up they'll soon freeze again. I know Electric Control has that sleep patch, but that's not what I mean; that's a pseudo-pet continually attacking anything in its range.

 

I think the issue with that, is that it makes Sleep feel too much like Fear. I wouldn't be against it, but I think others would have something to say about it, heh.

 

 

Who the hell are the sleep white knights?

 

That makes no sense. What do you mean? Please explain.

 

 

What I'm saying is, who actually thinks this would overpower sleeps, or that sleeps are fine as is? They're the worst of the soft control powers, and are routinely listed as skipable. Fear power are flat out better, and typically have a substantial to-hit penalty as well.

 

Electric control's sleeps re-apply. That should probably be proliferated to other sets. At minimum, make a good IO set that has such a proc in it that guarantees it will reapply through the sleep's duration..

 

The way I interpreted it was that changing sleeps to be like fear might require rebalancing (since sleeps have the advantage of having pretty obscene durations if slotted and go uninterrupted) and thus might alter how players use their utilities.