Min/Maxing and Toon Building Help

[Gravitus]

If this is in the wrong forum category, I apologize.... I first tried looking under the guides section but didn't see anything pinned as to what I'm looking for. So instead of hunting a guide down, I was wanting to know if there was any comprehensive guide in existence that gives tips on character builds as well as detailing all of the hard and soft caps to stats, procs. etc. 

 

Thank you in advance. 

[tidge]

Hot Take: Min-Maxing "Stats" and using %damage procs are somewhat in opposition, as set bonuses are generally the way to hit "stat caps", and franken-slotting with %damage procs is the way for many (but not all!)  ATs to maximize damage.

 

There are common globals uniques (some of them are non-damage %procs) that will be recommended by most everyone, some fraction of those are better for some ATs than they are for other ATs. I know other folks like listing them, so I'll leave it to them.

 

Within ATs, there are different things that are work "maximizing for the minimum"... especially when it comes to the Armor primary/secondaries.

[Gravitus]

2 minutes ago, tidge said:

Hot Take: Min-Maxing "Stats" and using %damage procs are somewhat in opposition, as set bonuses are generally the way to hit "stat caps", and franken-slotting with %damage procs is the way for many (but not all!)  ATs to maximize damage.

 

There are common globals uniques (some of them are non-damage %procs) that will be recommended by most everyone, some fraction of those are better for some ATs than they are for other ATs. I know other folks like listing them, so I'll leave it to them.

 

Within ATs, there are different things that are work "maximizing for the minimum"... especially when it comes to the Armor primary/secondaries.

That much I am aware of but being a perfectionist i want the actual data so i can have no "fat" on my toons. 

[tidge]

3 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

That much I am aware of but being a perfectionist i want the actual data so i can have no "fat" on my toons. 

 

It is going to vary based on the AT, the power choices, and the content you intend to play.

 

I can disclose some personal biases:

• I try to avoid using Hasten, preferring instead to have global Recharge bonuses from enhancements.

A dedicated "min-maxxer" will likely have only enough (hardest hitting) attacks to maintain a single attack chain, often by leveraging global recharge (with Hasten) and attacks like T9s. I often build with a variety of attacks to get set bonuses and not sweat about exemplaring or mixing up attack chains.

• I try to build for AoE fighting against x8

I like reward drops, so I try to "maximize defeats". Generally this means I run solo only at +0/+1, and so I'm not trying to maxmize the "even level defense soft cap of 45%". and so...

• I typically try to build ATs with multiple "survival mechanisms" so I can stay in the fight against x8/+4

This will depend on the AT, and what tools they have available. For squishier ATs, I consider a self-rez to be a survival mechanism! I'm the kind of player that absolutely does not mind "spending the green bar" to finish content in as little time as possible. I have a few Tanker builds that could have MOAR of something (resistance, defense)... so not maximized"... but if I'm mentally engaged those characters never get to 0 HP. Was this me "minimizing" something? Maybe my investement in slots... but other players may prefer to "minimize" how much attention they want to spend in combat.

 

 

[KaizenSoze]

34 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

If this is in the wrong forum category, I apologize.... I first tried looking under the guides section but didn't see anything pinned as to what I'm looking for. So instead of hunting a guide down, I was wanting to know if there was any comprehensive guide in existence that gives tips on character builds as well as detailing all of the hard and soft caps to stats, procs. etc. 

 

Thank you in advance. 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Limits

 

If you are looking for a nice balance of offense and defense. Look at the VEAT widows.

[Bionic_Flea]

I don't think that there is any comprehensive guide that would cover all ATs and power-sets.  But if you don't already use them, you should check out MidsReborn.com for the hero planner, City of Data ( https://cod.uberguy.net/) for detailed information on all powers and enhancements, and the Homecoming Wiki especially the Limits page (https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Limits ) for information about mins and maxes.

 

Most top end builds I see will at least have the following:

 - Most if not all of the HP and Endurance uniques (Performance Shifter, Power Transfer, Panacea, Numina's, Miracle, Unbreakable Guard, Preventive Medicine)

 - The defense uniques (Steadfast Protection, Gladiator's Armor)

 - The resistance uniques (Reactive Armor, Shield Wall)

 - Two sets of Superior ATOs either six slotted or broken up into trios

 - One to six sets of Superior WinterOs.  Many full sets if going for max enhancement and set bonuses, less and broken up if going for max damage procs

 - One to three sets of Purple, usually just slotting 5 of the six, for recharge and acc set bonuses

 - One to six damage procs per power

 - Kismet +tohit (especially if going high damage procs)

 - One or two Force Feedbacks for recharge

 - One or two -res like Achilles, Annihilation, or Fury of the Gladiator

 - Gaussian's +damage proc, usually in Aim, Build up or clone

 - Three to five Luck of the Gambler +recharge

 

And then fill the rest.

 

And these are just rule of thumb stuff, there are always exceptions for certain ATs, power-sets, or builders will make changes as needed.

Edited August 28 by Bionic_Flea

[arcane]

I think you need to specify what content you’re interested in. My 4* ready builds are a complete 180 from how I built things before 4* came out.

[Ukase]

And these rules of thumb don't even take into consideration that possibilities for incarnate powers. There is no one right way.. there are many right ways, and well, a lot of sub-optimal (but never wrong) ways. 

[Seed22]

Go to the discord, you’ll find examples of modern min/max  builds there. 

[Snarky]

10 hours ago, Gravitus said:

If this is in the wrong forum category, I apologize.... I first tried looking under the guides section but didn't see anything pinned as to what I'm looking for. So instead of hunting a guide down, I was wanting to know if there was any comprehensive guide in existence that gives tips on character builds as well as detailing all of the hard and soft caps to stats, procs. etc. 

 

Thank you in advance. 

sooo excited.  sooo cute.

 

this is like wandering into a bar for mechanics from ALL different race car types and saying "how do you make a fast car?"

 

So....  Are you talking a melee character?  (then... what type?)

 

Are you talking Blaster, Dom, Corr, Def, Troller?

 

Sentinel?

 

All have very different build strategies.  And different ways to get there.  Then you narrow it down to your power set choices, juggling a couple to decide what is best.

 

Heck, I have fully ranged Blasters that just need ranged defense and are basically unkillable played to their strategy.  Then I have a in your face Fire Blaster with almost no defenses who cannonballs every fresh spawn and rarely dies.  DPS is a wonderful defense.  

 

There is a lot of minutae to look at.  If you are running Tanks/Brutes a little known fact is Resistance is it's own "Resistance Debuff Resistance" and therefore even though the hard cap is 90% having 100% is great for things like Dr Aeon where Goldbrickers debuff your resistance.  But if we are talking about building Corruptors it is wasted breath.

[biostem]

11 hours ago, Gravitus said:

If this is in the wrong forum category, I apologize.... I first tried looking under the guides section but didn't see anything pinned as to what I'm looking for. So instead of hunting a guide down, I was wanting to know if there was any comprehensive guide in existence that gives tips on character builds as well as detailing all of the hard and soft caps to stats, procs. etc. 

 

Thank you in advance. 

The issue I think you'll run up against is that there isn't any one-size-fits-all solution for every AT and powerset combination.  I can speak to generalities, but besides that, a lot will depend upon the AT, primary, secondary, pool/APP/PPP and Incarnates you pick, not to mention how many or which IOs you'll slot.

 

 

[shortguy on indom]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

sooo excited.  sooo cute.

 

this is like wandering into a bar for mechanics from ALL different race car types and saying "how do you make a fast car?"

• FINALLY... THANK YOU... THERE IS HOPE.
• YAS WERE MAKING MY WORRY THERE.

[Gravitus]

12 hours ago, Snarky said:

sooo excited.  sooo cute.

 

this is like wandering into a bar for mechanics from ALL different race car types and saying "how do you make a fast car?"

 

So....  Are you talking a melee character?  (then... what type?)

 

Are you talking Blaster, Dom, Corr, Def, Troller?

 

Sentinel?

 

All have very different build strategies.  And different ways to get there.  Then you narrow it down to your power set choices, juggling a couple to decide what is best.

 

Heck, I have fully ranged Blasters that just need ranged defense and are basically unkillable played to their strategy.  Then I have a in your face Fire Blaster with almost no defenses who cannonballs every fresh spawn and rarely dies.  DPS is a wonderful defense.  

 

There is a lot of minutae to look at.  If you are running Tanks/Brutes a little known fact is Resistance is it's own "Resistance Debuff Resistance" and therefore even though the hard cap is 90% having 100% is great for things like Dr Aeon where Goldbrickers debuff your resistance.  But if we are talking about building Corruptors it is wasted breath.

I'm pretty careful on the words I choose when making a post. Asking for Tips is a pretty broad question. Bionic Flee's response is a perfect example to that question on tips, and Kaizon's response by sending a link to the game's hard and soft caps was also a perfect response.  As far as guides go, I was asking what section of the forums posts guides to builds and I would simply review the appropriate guide to whatever build I was contemplating. You missed the mark on what I was asking sir. 

Edited August 29 by Gravitus

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Gravitus said:

I'm pretty careful on the words I choose when making a post. Asking for Tips is a pretty broad question. Bionic Flee's response is a perfect example to that question on tips, and Kaizon's response by sending a link to the game's hard and soft caps was also a perfect response.  As far as guides go, I was asking what section of the forums posts guides to builds and I would simply review the appropriate guide to whatever build I was contemplating. You missed the mark on what I was asking sir. 

oh.  sorry.  then you would want to 1) know which AT you are trying to min/max 2) go to that Archetype forum

 

once in that forum you would want to know 1) which powersets you are considering 2) search that subforum for that topic or ask anew

 

Viel spass!

[Ukase]

On 8/28/2024 at 8:48 PM, shortguy on indom said:

• FINALLY... THANK YOU... THERE IS HOPE.
• YAS WERE MAKING MY WORRY THERE.

HA! That's why you gave most of us a thumbs down. We were too polite and didn't spell it out. 

[Bionic_Flea]

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

HA! That's why you gave most of us a thumbs down. We were too polite and didn't spell it out. 

 

Trying to decipher the posts and reactions of shortguy on indom leads to madness!

Edited September 4 by Bionic_Flea

[Seed22]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

HA! That's why you gave most of us a thumbs down. We were too polite and didn't spell it out. 

I gave the most blunt and imo sound answer. The best builders are on the discord 🤷🏾‍♂️

 

You can waste time mencing words or you can get to a workable answer. I like giving workable answers

 

[Gerswin]

A minmaxxed stats build will still seem slow and weak on speed anything (regular up to 4*) compared to someone who knows how to use inspirations, fold space/teleport, incarnate powers and line-of-sight mechanics.

[Triumphant]

2 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

 

Trying to decipher the posts and reactions of shortguy on indom leads to madness!

Their emoji's are perfectly clear, though.  They nearly almost always reply with either a Finland flag or a Banjo.  Clearly, what we have here is a Steve'n'Seagulls fan! 

[Ukase]

2 hours ago, Gerswin said:

A minmaxxed stats build will still seem slow and weak on speed anything (regular up to 4*) compared to someone who knows how to use inspirations, fold space/teleport, incarnate powers and line-of-sight mechanics.

My reply to this is a bit off-topic, but...<shrug>

Depends on what you mean by weak. Slow, I'll reluctantly grant you. Slow is not necessarily weak. A player can still proc their character to the gills with very high global recharge and still have a rough time getting from point A to point B. 

I would argue the biggest factor in speedy runs is being familiar with the content. When it would be faster to Ouro out of the mission, as opposed to exiting and then realizing you have to board transit for the next mission. The duration within the missions are rarely going to vary much if the team's intent is just the mission objectives. 

Except for efficiency expert badge, there are very few circumstances where speed is required in any fashion. I like speedy. I'm just not great at it. Tiki torches in Orenbegan maps, having to go through the sewers where the original devs deliberately make me have to zig from left to right and try not get caught on those door frames...that's so humbling trying to zip through those as fast as I can.