City of Heroes 2: elctricboogaloo

[EggKookoo]

Balance is hugely overrated.

 

Actually, I very much agree. Balance is used to justify all kinds of things that probably shouldn't exist. But that doesn't mean some balance isn't essential. And balance can mean a lot of things. When I talk about it, I don't really mean in a PvP sense. I mean in a "every player can make a character that feels significant to the party" sense.

[_NOPE_]

I feel like a Star Wars meme should go here, but I can't think of one.

[EggKookoo]

[justicebeliever]

I feel like a Star Wars meme should go here, but I can't think of one.

 

Then you are not the Chosen One who will bring balance to the Force....Fields.

 

Good luck trying to -1 me PK!  ;D

[justicebeliever]

All right EggKooKoo that’s a +1!

[TfStormcry]

Here's what I'd like to see - Consolidated power-sets

Examples -

Psionic set - Includes psionic melee, psionic control, psionic defense, psionic support

Earth - Includes stone melee, rock armor, rock control, rock pets (Rock pets don't technically exist yet)

Fire - Includes all the ways to set people on fire, whether they like it or not

 

Now some powers won't fit smoothly into this frame-work... So you propagate them to all powersets as a customization option, or make them secondary power sets

 

Example - Melee weapons - Where do they fall? How about I take a general framework of melee powers, add it to each of the primary sets as a customization - You want to dual wield swords and control lightning? Now your lightning melee attacks are made with swords and both sap end and do crazy combos.

You want to use claws? Rock Claws!

You want to not have any crazy elemental stuff? Go super strength and grab a hammer! Banning powers not included.

[Steampunkette]

My perfect CoH2 would not have a redside in the way that City of Heroes does. I would make one large city where both heroes and villains exist in different phases. A blue PVE phase, a red PVE phase, and a PVP phase both sides could use. All of the hero and villain contacts would be in the same zones, but out and out super villain or out and out superhero contacts would be hostile or doing things of their own and not present in the quote unquote wrong side's phase.

 

And then I would add in more cities instead of zones... Some of them would be more crime-riddled others would be more urban or rural. There would be at least one seaside City. All of them accessible in each phase.

 

The Rogue Isles? Heroes would go there and have missions in which they are sneaking around the big bad's place trying to fight crime without getting destroyed by Arachnos. Paragon City? It's the place villains hang out and try to keep a low profile to avoid getting attacked by the Freedom Phalanx while committing wonderful crimes.

 

Each city plays into that sort of thing. And maybe have zones change based on crime and heroism there. Lots of leveless content.

 

Oh and character scales! You want to play a street-level hero? well then you do all these storylines that take you from 1 to 50 fighting street gangs and low tier super villains that are appropriate to these Street hero concept but you're not limited to doing only that content. Oh hey you want to be a cosmic superhero? Have some level 1 content that involves fighting freaking aliens or some other high-concept cosmic threat and keep doing that all the way to level 50.

 

Origins? Screw that. Write your bio, grab the sorcery power pool or whatever. Scale is way more important to the narrative. Fight the magic Street level story arc content and play yourself a John Constantine or fighta whole bunch of science experiments and stuff and be the Spider-Man or maybe you want to fight a bunch of mutants or whatever. Makes that the content you choose to reinforce concept... Much more effective.

[_NOPE_]

My perfect CoH2 would not have a redside in the way that City of Heroes does. I would make one large city where both heroes and villains exist in different phases. A blue PVE phase, a red PVE phase, and a PVP phase both sides could use. All of the hero and villain contacts would be in the same zones, but out and out super villain or out and out superhero contacts would be hostile or doing things of their own and not present in the quote unquote wrong side's phase.

 

And then I would add in more cities instead of zones... Some of them would be more crime-riddled others would be more urban or rural. There would be at least one seaside City. All of them accessible in each phase.

 

The Rogue Isles? Heroes would go there and have missions in which they are sneaking around the big bad's place trying to fight crime without getting destroyed by Arachnos. Paragon City? It's the place villains hang out and try to keep a low profile to avoid getting attacked by the Freedom Phalanx while committing wonderful crimes.

 

Each city plays into that sort of thing. And maybe have zones change based on crime and heroism there. Lots of leveless content.

 

Oh and character scales! You want to play a street-level hero? well then you do all these storylines that take you from 1 to 50 fighting street gangs and low tier super villains that are appropriate to these Street hero concept but you're not limited to doing only that content. Oh hey you want to be a cosmic superhero? Have some level 1 content that involves fighting freaking aliens or some other high-concept cosmic threat and keep doing that all the way to level 50.

 

Origins? Screw that. Write your bio, grab the sorcery power pool or whatever. Scale is way more important to the narrative. Fight the magic Street level story arc content and play yourself a John Constantine or fighta whole bunch of science experiments and stuff and be the Spider-Man or maybe you want to fight a bunch of mutants or whatever. Makes that the content you choose to reinforce concept... Much more effective.

 

+1

[EggKookoo]

My perfect CoH2 would not have a redside in the way that City of Heroes does. I would make one large city where both heroes and villains exist in different phases. A blue PVE phase, a red PVE phase, and a PVP phase both sides could use. All of the hero and villain contacts would be in the same zones, but out and out super villain or out and out superhero contacts would be hostile or doing things of their own and not present in the quote unquote wrong side's phase.

 

And then I would add in more cities instead of zones... Some of them would be more crime-riddled others would be more urban or rural. There would be at least one seaside City. All of them accessible in each phase.

 

The Rogue Isles? Heroes would go there and have missions in which they are sneaking around the big bad's place trying to fight crime without getting destroyed by Arachnos. Paragon City? It's the place villains hang out and try to keep a low profile to avoid getting attacked by the Freedom Phalanx while committing wonderful crimes.

 

Each city plays into that sort of thing. And maybe have zones change based on crime and heroism there. Lots of leveless content.

 

So, inspired by this, what Mercy Island represented the high-level mission content for heroes, and Atlas Park represented the high-level mission stuff for villains? So if you're a hero you're doing your 45+ missions in Mercy, and vice versa for villains and Atlas. Of course since this is CoH2 it wouldn't be those zones specifically, but the idea is the heart of each side represents the endgame for the other, and the two sides kind of cross each other as they level. Considerations would have to be taken for PvP -- we don't want people ganking the lowbies just starting out in their zones. That could be handled via phasing, or off-limits PvP beyond a certain level, or any number of ways.

[Duuk]

My perfect CoH2 would not have a redside in the way that City of Heroes does. I would make one large city where both heroes and villains exist in different phases. A blue PVE phase, a red PVE phase, and a PVP phase both sides could use. All of the hero and villain contacts would be in the same zones, but out and out super villain or out and out superhero contacts would be hostile or doing things of their own and not present in the quote unquote wrong side's phase.

 

And then I would add in more cities instead of zones... Some of them would be more crime-riddled others would be more urban or rural. There would be at least one seaside City. All of them accessible in each phase.

 

The Rogue Isles? Heroes would go there and have missions in which they are sneaking around the big bad's place trying to fight crime without getting destroyed by Arachnos. Paragon City? It's the place villains hang out and try to keep a low profile to avoid getting attacked by the Freedom Phalanx while committing wonderful crimes.

 

Each city plays into that sort of thing. And maybe have zones change based on crime and heroism there. Lots of leveless content.

 

Oh and character scales! You want to play a street-level hero? well then you do all these storylines that take you from 1 to 50 fighting street gangs and low tier super villains that are appropriate to these Street hero concept but you're not limited to doing only that content. Oh hey you want to be a cosmic superhero? Have some level 1 content that involves fighting freaking aliens or some other high-concept cosmic threat and keep doing that all the way to level 50.

 

Origins? Screw that. Write your bio, grab the sorcery power pool or whatever. Scale is way more important to the narrative. Fight the magic Street level story arc content and play yourself a John Constantine or fighta whole bunch of science experiments and stuff and be the Spider-Man or maybe you want to fight a bunch of mutants or whatever. Makes that the content you choose to reinforce concept... Much more effective.

I am in love and now want to play this game.  This is so much better than my version.

[biostem]

This is totally stream of consciousness at this point - but for a sequel -

 

1.) Move away from AT's and let people choose whatever powers, BUT with some balancing effect (IDK what that would look like)

 

 

The key here would be to dynamically balance damage, defenses, status protection, healing, and so on, as people choose powers - you take melee powers and your ranged damage decreases, you take defensive powers, and your damage drops yet again, (but perhaps melee damage drops at a slower rate than ranged damage).  You start taking heals or buffing powers, and both damage and defenses get reduced.  The problem would be maintaining that fine balance.  As another responder pointed out, you can go full freeform in Champions, and it generally results in high damage, high defense flying bricks that can heal themselves and others, while locking down enemies, summoning pets, and so on...

[Legree]

The Rogue Isles? Heroes would go there and have missions in which they are sneaking around the big bad's place trying to fight crime without getting destroyed by Arachnos. Paragon City? It's the place villains hang out and try to keep a low profile to avoid getting attacked by the Freedom Phalanx while committing wonderful crimes.

 

<Snip> for quote length, but so many good ideas here.

 

As much as I am an ardent defender of the Rogue Isles as a villain-centric setting I must admit it would be nice if there was more interaction (direct or indirect) between the two sides, outside of PVP zones and co-op content of course.

 

One of the few letdowns of my early experience of the game was the first time I joined a team to rob the bank in Atlas Park.  I actually thought we were going to the Atlas Park, and would be fighting player heroes.  Of course I knew nothing about MMOs back then and so the fact we'd have been one-shotted by any passing 50 didn't occur to me, but still...

 

Related to that there was a suggestion back on live for competitive bank missions - that is to say a team of villains and a team of heroes would be put on the same map, with all the usual objectives in place, but with the player teams taking the place of the NPC bank robbers and NPC heroes respectively.  I rarely PVP in any MMO, but I still think that's an idea with a lot of merit.

[Justisaur]

Really what I want is easier mission teaming, I loved Warframe for how it made it so easy to get a team - go on an open mission and you get paired with some random people, or you can make your own team and do a mission, or you can just solo a mission.  Just the teaming part.

[Shinobu]

 

Before City of Villains came out, I had this idea that being able to play a villain might mean you could be a member of the Council, or a member of the Circle of Thorns, or of Malta/Knives of Artemis, or whatever.  I didn't envision a completely separate set of zones just for villains -- I imagined villains playing in the same city as the heroes, but with their own small starter zones or bases depending on what group they aligned with.  Having played Everquest back in the day, the idea of having multiple starting zones in one big interconnected world made sense to me.

 

Anyway I still think that could be a cool way to go, although I agree that many people want to be independent villains and there ought to be a way to play from 1-50 where you're not working for other people and are doing your own thing, from small crimes to massive criminal endeavors.  Obviously when it comes to teaming up with others on a strike force, that kind of thing is more difficult to do, but I certainly think that they could have designed an entire story arc from 1-50 where you were not being told by contacts what to do, but perhaps were choosing your own paths in the way you choose between paper missions, and maybe getting some missions from people who are brokers or suppliers of information or whatever, but who are not in a position to tell you what to do and when to do it.

 

And I really think all of that should be happening in the same world as the heroes.  ^_^

 

I'm sure there are a lot of other things I would like to see, but that's just one aspect that disappointed a lot of people about the CoV expansion that I'd like to see someone do completely differently in a sequel.

 

[WillowManson]

I would really like to see an improved enemy AI system as I still can't stand the current one. It is super annoying to see a group of bad guys and they do nothing till you are standing right next to them. I also dislike how you can start attacking a mob and another mob right next you just stands there like nothing is going on. 

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

If a CoH 2 was somehow to happen I hate to tell you all but there is no way it would have another red side. That was deemed such a failure development wise, and had such low player use it remained one of the biggest negatives against the game for the rest of its original run. There is just no reason to think it would go down differently this time around. Most comic book fans are into playing as heroes only. And well to make it worthwhile the game would need to be built from the ground up around pvp interaction and balance to even begin to justify a reason for player factions.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

25 minutes ago, WillowManson said:

I would really like to see an improved enemy AI system as I still can't stand the current one. It is super annoying to see a group of bad guys and they do nothing till you are standing right next to them. I also dislike how you can start attacking a mob and another mob right next you just stands there like nothing is going on. 

That has more to do with visual range of mobs, and wanting to allow CC ATs with less dmg and mitigation be able to actually handle things. Not every AT can handle several mobs at once especially at lower levels.

[EggKookoo]

15 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

If a CoH 2 was somehow to happen I hate to tell you all but there is no way it would have another red side. That was deemed such a failure development wise, and had such low player use it remained one of the biggest negatives against the game for the rest of its original run. There is just no reason to think it would go down differently this time around. Most comic book fans are into playing as heroes only. And well to make it worthwhile the game would need to be built from the ground up around pvp interaction and balance to even begin to justify a reason for player factions.

What they could get away with doing is not having a red side per se, but using something like the alignment system to allow you to go from being a Hero to a Rogue and back. No true villains, just shades of "good guy."

[Blastit]

You could certainly still have PvP zones like Warburg or ones where you decide to join one out of three zone-exclusive factions even without an explicit blueside/redside split.

 

 

 

I'd be all for a system that doesn't divide you into hero and villain but is instead composed of a whole bunch of "contact factions" that you align with depending on your character's past workings. Like city hall can be one group, various big-name heroes can be others, corporations and criminal groups can be some. You don't join them necessarily but you work with or for them. Obviously getting contacts in the hospital workers' union would push you towards certain styles of mission while getting contacts in a shipping company and doing some acquisitions from Crey for them would push you towards other styles of mission. A more substantial combination of the current contact, alignment and tip systems.

 

So if your character does a lot of missions where someone explicitly pays you to work for them, then you'd get more of that sort of job. If your character instead does a lot of rescue missions then you build a reputation of being a good rescue worker and people in that sphere would want to talk to you more.

[Techwright]

On 6/28/2019 at 2:39 PM, EggKookoo said:

 

Hm, hard for me to think up something for a sequel. Any thoughts I have feel like modifications to the existing game.

 

 

 

• A new city? Perhaps one accessible from both red and blue side, with missions for both. Or a non-PvP zone where the ambient MOBs are more of a threat to one side or the other based on which side has completed more missions in it recently (e.g. if redside characters have completed more missions in the zone in the past 24 hours than blue characters, the mobs become neutral to red and hostile to blue).

 

Though I really like your zone idea, the fly in the ointment is that, should oneside ever become far more populated than the other, such as currently exists, then the less populated side will have little to no opportunity to to dominate the area.

 

As to "new city", actually I'd prefer to see a "World of Heroes", using the original city (with modifications for a new game), but with an all new airport or military airport zone available at a select level. That allows for stories all across the globe, and expansions covering complete other cities or environments.

On 6/28/2019 at 4:05 PM, justicebeliever said:

 

9.) With so many heroes, maybe it's time for a national anti-hero sentiment that everyone is fighting

 

Actually, with my thought towards a "World of Heroes" rather than see an anti-hero sentiment within the hometown, I'd rather place it in another part of the globe, something that will have repercussions in Paragon City if not addressed.  Basically a reverse of Geonosis from X-men stories.  

 

As to my thoughts:

 

1).  Fighting on the street that is actually meaningful, not something everyone rushes past on the way to the next door.

 

2.) NPC opponents that do not cluster in static positions on the street, but instead move around in a more natural way.  The defunct Everquest Next was designing something like this.  Opponents were given a list of things they liked and disliked, and once turned loose would seek pathing and areas that appealed to them.

 

3.) More mini events on the street to make it feel more spontaneous.  For example, when you enter a neighborhood, the local patrolman flags you down and says he's received word that a tough gang boss just moved into the area and he'd appreciate it if you'd look into the matter while there.  Find the boss, fight off his elite guard, bring him in for praise and a stack of XP/Inf.     Basically a "Hogger" field quest, if you know WOW, but not a static area where the boss might appear.

 

4.) A better balance advancement-wise between task forces and other forms of advancement (street fighting, door missions, giant monster fighting, etc.)  That way the patterned create a situation where the bulk of players level from running repeated task forces, but feel comfortable doing door missions.

 

5.) Greater variety in the city. Ethnic sections of the city: Chinatown, Little Italy, Czech Village, etc.  Also more variety of shops.  Where are all the grocery stores, fruit stands, hair salons, tattoo parlors, pre-college schools, etc?

 

6.) Underground areas big enough that I'm not running into a wall every few feet.

 

7.)  This one is crazy out there, but rather than have a few developers create each and every building and interior, and thereby get a lot of repetition, maybe perhaps use...I think it's called "procedural generation"?  Basically the same kind of tool that No Man's Sky used to create a galaxy of planets, and instead have it create the city.  Plug in the details of a host of architectural styles, set parameters such as height limits and variable, how many coffee shops to have in a 5 block area, etc, and let the computer create most of the city.  Likewise, use procedural generation handle the interiors.  If doable, that should allow for a much greater variety of interior environments and a lot less "oh THIS room" statements.

 

8.) Also crazy out there, but again taking a page from the aborted Everquest Next, develop the world using particles.  This means that a fight will have destructive consequences for a limited time.  You can (if powerful enough) smash anything, giving you the perfect opportunity to put Reichmann through the wall, literally.  It should also make ship fighting more interesting, as putting a hole through the bulkhead might just flood the ship.

[DougGraves]

Defense and Resistance should be multiplicative, not additive.  Meaning 50% Res + 50% res should give you 75% Res not 100% Res.  The problem with the current system is that a tiny Res increase in a pool power of 5% is useless to a blaster who has no Res but godlike to a tanker who has a Res of 90% already.  Making them multiplicative would mean the value of a Res or Def power would be based on the power itself, not what you are combining it with.

[Dreamboat]

11 hours ago, Techwright said:

7.)  This one is crazy out there, but rather than have a few developers create each and every building and interior, and thereby get a lot of repetition, maybe perhaps use...I think it's called "procedural generation"?  Basically the same kind of tool that No Man's Sky used to create a galaxy of planets, and instead have it create the city.  Plug in the details of a host of architectural styles, set parameters such as height limits and variable, how many coffee shops to have in a 5 block area, etc, and let the computer create most of the city.  Likewise, use procedural generation handle the interiors.  If doable, that should allow for a much greater variety of interior environments and a lot less "oh THIS room" statements.

I would have sworn this is what CoX does for interiors right now. I always assumed that each interior (except for certain mission-specific unique ones) was just pulling from a library of rooms and placing/connecting them semi-randomly, with some vague guidelines about where certain rooms should go on the map - say, "the multi-floor room should always go at the end of caves". If that's not how it's been done then I applaud Cryptic, because they managed to perfectly replicate my own experience with procedurally-generated games before I ever actually had them! With me it always end up making things seem more samey because you end up being able to spot the various parts and patterns that have repeated.

 

In terms of what I'd like to see, I think it would be really cool if they could pull in something like the arch-nemesis system from Champions Online. Design your greatest foe and have personal missions that pit you against them and their schemes (if you're hero) or trying to stop them derailing your schemes (if you're a villain). I'd like to see more personalised content in general. You can achieve that fairly well with AE as it stands, but I'd like something that's actually "real" in the game world.

[catsi563]

lets see Atlantis or Lemuria underwater adventures and the intro of a high speed swimming power for those Aquaman expys

Moon Base nuff said

more customization of minions for MMs

Arch foes including a nemesis mechanic --not that nemesis-- but where your archfoe has plans you have to thwart and ambushes you on occasion so it really is a Nemesis plot you have to thwart

Keep expanding power options

new travel option including web or grapple line swinging and perhaps motorcycle or jet or super cars with customizable appearances to match the heroes themes

make Super speed better by giving it a vertical option which means they can run on walls or on water

[Techwright]

10 hours ago, Dreamboat said:

I would have sworn this is what CoX does for interiors right now. I always assumed that each interior (except for certain mission-specific unique ones) was just pulling from a library of rooms and placing/connecting them semi-randomly, with some vague guidelines about where certain rooms should go on the map - say, "the multi-floor room should always go at the end of caves". If that's not how it's been done then I applaud Cryptic, because they managed to perfectly replicate my own experience with procedurally-generated games before I ever actually had them! With me it always end up making things seem more samey because you end up being able to spot the various parts and patterns that have repeated.

 

 

I'm no developer, but I'm reasonably sure the radio missions, at least, use a shuffling system (for lack of the proper term) to randomly connect stock rooms and halls together and placing glowies.   But we still recognize the rooms.  Currently we have the same Brutalist architecture hallways that are reskinned to appear somewhat different.  What I'm suggesting is something more granular where each building has its own unique interior layout, AI-designed from the ground up including architecture, decorative styling and furniture, and function such as a hotel or Union station.   

[Sakura Tenshi]

My own idea for a "city of Heroes 2" wouldn't actually be a sequel so much as a reboot of the current game including changing up the timeline a bit and a bit of lore streamlining. Some key ideas I would have include:

• Paragon zones are parred down/mashed together into zones now, but they are bigger zones (averaging larger than Independence Port). War Walls would still exist for some (Though there'd be differences between human erected walls, rikti erected walls, and a few raised independent of the war, not to mention personalized touches like the combined Kings Row/IP turning their walls into memorial murals.), and other zones would take heroes and villains out of the Rogue Isles/Paragon with a big example being the Zig being relocated into a large zone set in the New Mexico. (Yes, it's basically stealing a page from Champions Online but I felt it was one of their better ones). Another big example being the Rikti War Zone being split between the Vanguard forward base being at the southernmost tip of Chile and the actual Rikti mothership crash (and their own strongholds) set up in Antarctica.
• Original Rikti Invasion instead began in October of 1999 instead and concluded in June of 2000 (Basically as a reference to the old New Millennium Doomsday  Predictions combined with a reference to War of The Worlds, this is all purely personal preference)
• More villain groups would circulate around the idea of operating as henchmen (so like Freakshow, a Skyraiders remade as generic paramiliary group, robotic servants, summoned demons and cultists, etc.) to more unique and powerful villains (like, say, Flambeaux.) It's not to say full villain groups would not necessarily return, just that they'd be treated as rarer, global threats (CoT, Rikti, Arachnos, Fifth Column, Nemesis)
• The Rogue Isles would now have an inter-island highway system going between them, and it would now be possible to swim to most islands in a similar manner of going from peregrine to talos), also Port Oakes and Cap Au would be properly connected together and oriented. However, certain zones would be set up such that trying to swim certain ways (which would geographically set you as fleeing from the rogue isles, like saying east off the coast of Port Oakes or north or east of Nerva) would basically have you suffer from effects similar to the Sonic Fences in Praetoria. Though graphically it would be Arachnos coastal patrols shooting the everloving @#$% out of you to keep you from leaving.
• Skyway city would instead be a sort of massive central hub zone with roads which could take you to every zone in paragon so it's freeways and highways could behavy like mother@#$%ing freeways and highways.
• I don't have much for mechanics, but I'd probably take the Incarnate Interface slot and break it into two things that you actually work on throughout your base playthrought to augment your damage with an element and additional effect. The point really being so players can have that cool lightning sword they always wanted.

And that's all I have off the top of my head for now.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Sakura Tenshi