Airstrike as Incarnate ability?

[Xion80]

At the end of the Sutter TF. Our heroes are faced with two AVs, and lots of Raider backup. In the mist of the chaos, we have to be mindful of the impending doom of  multiple deadly Airstrike attacks. I think the Airstrike is a great ability. It would be a welcoming addition to the incarnate AoE choices for military, police, or mercenary themed toons. Why isn't this a thing?

 

At the very least. It could be an expensive "one off" temp power that can only be used once per mission no matter how many players have the temp ability. My Military Mastermind would love to call in the strike!

 

What say you?

[Greycat]

I'm ... honestly kind of "ehehhhhh...." on it.

 

I could see it as a temp power for a SF/TF, though ("Call in an airstrike as needed on...." ) in appropriate environments. But - for me, at least - being in one of the many sewer or cave missions and being able to "call in an airstrike" would just be weird and immersion breaking. (Honestly, Meteor in those same situations is, as well, and I love Meteor.)

 

But that's me.

[Xion80]

3 hours ago, Greycat said:

I'm ... honestly kind of "ehehhhhh...." on it.

 

I could see it as a temp power for a SF/TF, though ("Call in an airstrike as needed on...." ) in appropriate environments. But - for me, at least - being in one of the many sewer or cave missions and being able to "call in an airstrike" would just be weird and immersion breaking. (Honestly, Meteor in those same situations is, as well, and I love Meteor.)

 

But that's me.

So you think an Airstrike would be weird if it penetrated a cave or sewer system? A 20mm gatling gun can penetrate a cave and sewer system with no problem. If we're talking missiles, there are a plethora of bunker busters to choose from. It's more then realistic.

 

Then you have things like....

 

Meteor (as you mentioned)

Calling in MM pets. (The parachute commando) (the gang members coming out a sewer)

Arachnos spider bot pets. (Entry animation on space map)

Incarnate lightning attack (in space)

Whirlpool water attack....

 

The list goes on. You've in fact validated Airstrike as a realistic option. Maybe an SG satellite attack would be fitting? Only available for SG.

 

[Techwright]

It's been a long while since I did a Sutter TF.  Am I correct in saying the airstrike originates via machinery?  That is, is it airships or satellites dishing out death and destruction?  If so, that doesn't really strike me as Incarnate in nature, and I realize there's likely a certain irony to that statement.  The Incarnate system has long been acknowledged as flawed.  Why continue that pattern, though?  When it is on target with the lore, the Incarnate system is supposed to represent a person-altering experience.   My character may have started as a tech-origin or nature-origin character (and I have many of each) but once he's started on the Incarnate path, the lore is indicating that he's modifying himself, not the tech or gear.  Electrical, ice, fire, and dark blasts are coming from himself.    Pets arrive to serve because he has gained an overwhelming will (read as target-specific telepathic or techno-telepathic control).  That sort of thing.

 

That said, perhaps there's a way to modify the power and ability of Airstrike to make it appear as originating from a character and not an airship or satellite.  Not that he calls forth airships, but that he, with Incarnate power, violently disturbs the forces of nature in the surrounding atmosphere unleashing their energy in a hail on the target.

 

Now, separating this theoretical Airstrike from the Incarnate system for a moment, if the goal is just to have the ability added to the game, put it in the pre-Incarnate list of abilities and make it a tech-based ability using a backpack drone with micro-missiles (think Iron-Man tank missile).  That allows for a flying device small enough to work in a hallway or cave. 

[FupDup]

The realism argument is silly because incarnate powers are given to us by a magical well anyways, and really just look around at other abilities in this game. Like how MM pets can summon anywhere despite their animations, i.e. robots and mercs descending from the sky even when you're in a sewer or thugs coming out of a manhole cover on top of a mountain. 

 

This is ultimately moot however because the devs have stated that they have no intentions of ever adding more incarnate powers to the game. 

[Xion80]

1 hour ago, Techwright said:

It's been a long while since I did a Sutter TF.  Am I correct in saying the airstrike originates via machinery?  That is, is it airships or satellites dishing out death and destruction?  If so, that doesn't really strike me as Incarnate in nature, and I realize there's likely a certain irony to that statement.  The Incarnate system has long been acknowledged as flawed.  Why continue that pattern, though?  When it is on target with the lore, the Incarnate system is supposed to represent a person-altering experience.   My character may have started as a tech-origin or nature-origin character (and I have many of each) but once he's started on the Incarnate path, the lore is indicating that he's modifying himself, not the tech or gear.  Electrical, ice, fire, and dark blasts are coming from himself.    Pets arrive to serve because he has gained an overwhelming will (read as target-specific telepathic or techno-telepathic control).  That sort of thing.

 

That said, perhaps there's a way to modify the power and ability of Airstrike to make it appear as originating from a character and not an airship or satellite.  Not that he calls forth airships, but that he, with Incarnate power, violently disturbs the forces of nature in the surrounding atmosphere unleashing their energy in a hail on the target.

 

Now, separating this theoretical Airstrike from the Incarnate system for a moment, if the goal is just to have the ability added to the game, put it in the pre-Incarnate list of abilities and make it a tech-based ability using a backpack drone with micro-missiles (think Iron-Man tank missile).  That allows for a flying device small enough to work in a hallway or cave. 

1)I was always under the assumption it was aircraft. I don't remember if I actually heard jets fly past over head, as your focus is on the warning sound before the attack on the Sutter TF. But wait! I think jets do a strafe run, because they can be heard in the opening tutorial mission where you fight Shiva giant IIRC.

 

2) Isn't the Well of the Furies responsible for many things that we wouldn't even believe are tied to its power? I get what you're saying about the personal growth via the well's power and it makes sense.  But dammit, I just wanna call it it in!!! "I need heavy ordinance at xyz coordinates! Gonna be danger close!" 😄

 

3) I could settle for it being a temp power. You call it in with a radio like MM summon commando. It could be an Arachno, or Freedom Corps aerial vehicle we see from team TP doing a quick strafe with S/L damage. That works for me! Tie it to hero or villain alignment. Rouges get Raider assistance!

[Xion80]

59 minutes ago, FupDup said:

The realism argument is silly because incarnate powers are given to us by a magical well anyways, and really just look around at other abilities in this game. Like how MM pets can summon anywhere despite their animations, i.e. robots and mercs descending from the sky even when you're in a sewer or thugs coming out of a manhole cover on top of a mountain. 

 

This is ultimately moot however because the devs have stated that they have no intentions of ever adding more incarnate powers to the game. 

That's what I was attempting to say earlier. I was simply referencing the ability of a 20mm gatling.

 

I didn't know devs made that statement, but it doesn't stop the power from being a potential temp option. I just figured the damage it inflicts on Sutter TF made it Incarnate worthy. Many who ignored the Airstrike warning the first time make damn sure those feet are moving the second time.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Xion80 said:

1)I was always under the assumption it was aircraft. I don't remember if I actually heard jets fly past over head, as your focus is on the warning sound before the attack on the Sutter TF.

There are jets in that mission. You can hear them approach and fly past. And if you watch the sky, you can see them too.

 

1 hour ago, Xion80 said:

2) Isn't the Well of the Furies responsible for many things that we wouldn't even believe are tied to its power? I get what you're saying about the personal growth via the well's power and it makes sense.  But dammit, I just wanna call it it in!!! "I need heavy ordinance at xyz coordinates! Gonna be danger close!" 😄

I'm in agreement with @Greycat on this. I think this works much better as a TF/SF power for specific missions than as an incarnate power. I also agree with @Techwright that it doesn't really fit in with the idea of how incarnate powers work. However, I'm loathe to have that debate again, so I'll leave it at 'it's a nice idea and I would enjoy it as a TF/SF specific power, but I'm not exactly a fan of it as an incarnate power. Let the devs decide either way'.

 

1 hour ago, Xion80 said:

3) I could settle for it being a temp power. You call it in with a radio like MM summon commando. It could be an Arachno, or Freedom Corps aerial vehicle we see from team TP doing a quick strafe with S/L damage. That works for me! Tie it to hero or villain alignment. Rouges get Raider assistance!

I can get behind this as an alternate idea. It won't be very powerful this way, but every little bit helps when you find yourself dipping into temp powers for added punch.

[TheMoneyMaker]

I'd love to have some other types of Judgement powers. If we can summon mechs and other tech stuff with lore, then calling in a magical air strike doesn't seem all that unusual

[srmalloy]

7 hours ago, FupDup said:

The realism argument is silly because incarnate powers are given to us by a magical well anyways, and really just look around at other abilities in this game.

Not to mention that "Air Strike" could simply be the name we've given to it based on its effects -- for example, it could be done as a double AoE effect -- an area (regular area expanding to 'Wide' at higher tiers) that delivers a rapid sequence of grenade-like blasts across its area. Magic, technology, psionic explosions -- it doesn't really matter how it's produced; we just call it like we see it.

[Snarky]

On 11/29/2024 at 10:44 PM, Xion80 said:

At the end of the Sutter TF. Our heroes are faced with two AVs, and lots of Raider backup. In the mist of the chaos, we have to be mindful of the impending doom of  multiple deadly Airstrike attacks. I think the Airstrike is a great ability. It would be a welcoming addition to the incarnate AoE choices for military, police, or mercenary themed toons. Why isn't this a thing?

 

At the very least. It could be an expensive "one off" temp power that can only be used once per mission no matter how many players have the temp ability. My Military Mastermind would love to call in the strike!

 

What say you?

Have you ever (serious question) used LRM Rocket (Blaster Arsenal Mastery) or Meteor (Seismic Blast)???

 

One of the big issues with these powers (although fun) is their long activation and possibility (probability...) of the fight having completely changed by the time this "lands"

 

IF (big if) you call in an Airstrike... There is NO WAY it makes sense for it to be a fast activating power.  Even if the footprint was larger than any AoE in the game and did more DPS than any AoE in the game.... It would likely be a piss poor choice.

[Xion80]

2 hours ago, Snarky said:

Have you ever (serious question) used LRM Rocket (Blaster Arsenal Mastery) or Meteor (Seismic Blast)???

 

One of the big issues with these powers (although fun) is their long activation and possibility (probability...) of the fight having completely changed by the time this "lands"

 

IF (big if) you call in an Airstrike... There is NO WAY it makes sense for it to be a fast activating power.  Even if the footprint was larger than any AoE in the game and did more DPS than any AoE in the game.... It would likely be a piss poor choice.

And that would be ok too! Why you ask!? Because It would be MY  "piss poor" choice. We have the ability to pick whatever we wish and have fun with it all day. Some think "TW is too slow." Didn't stop my fun!

 

"Oh, Psi Melee sucks end game!" I'll stab that robot for hours with a smile! I personally think Willpower is trash, and its name stems from the player using all there "Willpower" to keep their eyes open from boredom. Clearly that didn't stop a single Willpower from being made.

 

Stalkers have to deal with the "issue" of the "battlefield changes" every time they attempt AS. I'm sure no one erased a single Stalker because of it. If Air Strike was made available to the players, and it ended up being trash/mediocre. That won't stop the power of the soloist ,concept player, or the looming "altitus."

 

Players are gonna play.

[Snarky]

6 minutes ago, Xion80 said:

And that would be ok too! Why you ask!? Because It would be MY  "piss poor" choice. We have the ability to pick whatever we wish and have fun with it all day. Some think "TW is too slow." Didn't stop my fun!

 

"Oh, Psi Melee sucks end game!" I'll stab that robot for hours with a smile! I personally think Willpower is trash, and its name stems from the player using all there "Willpower" to keep their eyes open from boredom. Clearly that didn't stop a single Willpower from being made.

 

Stalkers have to deal with the "issue" of the "battlefield changes" every time they attempt AS. I'm sure no one erased a single Stalker because of it. If Air Strike was made available to the players, and it ended up being trash/mediocre. That won't stop the power of the soloist ,concept player, or the looming "altitus."

 

Players are gonna play.

you, my friend, have mastered the art of how to have fun!

[TheMoneyMaker]

3 hours ago, Snarky said:

IF (big if) you call in an Airstrike... There is NO WAY it makes sense for it to be a fast activating power.  Even if the footprint was larger than any AoE in the game and did more DPS than any AoE in the game.... It would likely be a piss poor choice.

 

 

Magic

[srmalloy]

4 hours ago, Snarky said:

Have you ever (serious question) used LRM Rocket (Blaster Arsenal Mastery) or Meteor (Seismic Blast)???

 

One of the big issues with these powers (although fun) is their long activation and possibility (probability...) of the fight having completely changed by the time this "lands"

Or Rain of Arrows, the way it was back on Live, before Homecoming removed the flight time delay. This drove me up the wall with my TA/Arch Defender back on Live, where I'd set up on a spawn, launch Rain of Arrows... and have the spawn move completely out of the AoE before it lands because they're all aggro'd away on someone else who was running around grabbing aggro -- even if the group I was targeting had already been aggro'd and clustered by someone else. It got to the point on one ITF where I stopped using my AoE debuffs, and just using my attacks - and when I was asked why I wasn't "doing my job", my response was "I wait for a group to be herded up before I unload on them, and when I can finally use Rain of Arrows, you taunt them and drag them out of my AoE before it lands. Five times now. I'm not supporting your herding until you stop sabotaging my work."

[Lazarillo]

It's a neat concept, but the visuals for it in the TF are so...dinky.  Seems far from the effect a Judgment should generate.

[Snarky]

4 hours ago, Lazarillo said:

It's a neat concept, but the visuals for it in the TF are so...dinky.  Seems far from the effect a Judgment should generate.

i agree.... except.  we already summon lores, including robots.  what is the difference in calling in a drone missile strike on a area?

[Lazarillo]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

i agree.... except.  we already summon lores, including robots.  what is the difference in calling in a drone missile strike on a area?

Oh, that part, I see no problem with.  More my point was that Duray's "air strike", when it actually hits, has no real visuals except for some dust in the air, and the SFX is this really pathetic "ptptptpt" sound.  I feel like to work as a Judgment power, it needs to come in more like the Seismic Blast t9, or the like.

[Snarky]

2 hours ago, Lazarillo said:

Oh, that part, I see no problem with.  More my point was that Duray's "air strike", when it actually hits, has no real visuals except for some dust in the air, and the SFX is this really pathetic "ptptptpt" sound.  I feel like to work as a Judgment power, it needs to come in more like the Seismic Blast t9, or the like.

what about one of those target reticles like the warwalkers use? and a boom similar to seismic?

[Zect]

I want Orbital Strike. You can copy the fx from keyes.

 

[Wavicle]

I know that realistically Assault Rifle IS the Blast Set version of Arsenal Control, but it would be neat to have a Blast set that, sort of like Seismic Blast, is more about launched munitions rather than directed projectiles, with a tier 9 that is some sort of Orbital Strike.

[Sakura Tenshi]

Honestly, while far more fantastical, I'd still like a Photonic judgement that looks like a pillar of light from the heavens. I wouldn't object to an air strike so much, though just a general artillery bombardment also would be nice. I like to imagine my brute who has reincarnated throughout history is basically summoning a bombardment from an old ship he once commanded. (just as his lore pets are basically the memories of old comrades he fought alongside)

[Snarky]

6 hours ago, Wavicle said:

I know that realistically Assault Rifle IS the Blast Set version of Arsenal Control, but it would be neat to have a Blast set that, sort of like Seismic Blast, is more about launched munitions rather than directed projectiles, with a tier 9 that is some sort of Orbital Strike.

In my opinion… it would have to work very hard to look different.  It has to do with animation time.  You can level a full spawn +4 in seconds with a blaster.  What would look different with “mini missiles” than guns?  

[Jacke]

On 12/1/2024 at 2:31 PM, Snarky said:

Have you ever (serious question) used LRM Rocket (Blaster Arsenal Mastery) or Meteor (Seismic Blast)???

 

One of the big issues with these powers (although fun) is their long activation and possibility (probability...) of the fight having completely changed by the time this "lands"

 

At least LRM Rocket like other Snipes has a Fast Mode now.  (But in my Arsenal Mastery builds, I don't take it now, but have in the past.)

 

 

On 12/1/2024 at 2:31 PM, Snarky said:

IF (big if) you call in an Airstrike... There is NO WAY it makes sense for it to be a fast activating power.  Even if the footprint was larger than any AoE in the game and did more DPS than any AoE in the game.... It would likely be a piss poor choice.

 

Let's make it spicy with Damage to all in the impact zone!  😺

 

 

[Snarky]

4 minutes ago, Jacke said:

 

At least LRM Rocket like other Snipes has a Fast Mode now.  (But in my Arsenal Mastery builds, I don't take it now, but have in the past.)

 

 

 

Let's make it spicy with Damage to all in the impact zone!  😺

 

 

Then you need a keybind for team chat “Airstrike danger close!”  Gives peeps no time to run, but the joy of knowing a nuke is inbound…