I AE and PI'd several characters

[Octogoat]

I don't see what the stigma is. I went back and ouroboros'd all the missions, making different choices each time after IOing. You still experience content just with swim floaties.

[Skyhawke]

[Octogoat]

2 minutes ago, Skyhawke said:

I hope it doesn't get too heated. I used to be in story arc camp but lately I just want to get my IOs in so they aren't burning a hole in my bank.

[ZemX]

The stigma isn't about experienced players PLing up a new alt.  It's about new players sitting a door, not learning the game, then attempting afterwards to play on teams without even the knowledge of how to get from one zone to another.  Playing SOME of the normal leveling up is a good tutorial for the game, after which if you wanna PL... knock yourself out.  

 

That's not any kind of rule.  That's just good advice.

[Octogoat]

2 minutes ago, ZemX said:

The stigma isn't about experienced players PLing up a new alt.  It's about new players sitting a door, not learning the game, then attempting afterwards to play on teams without even the knowledge of how to get from one zone to another.  Playing SOME of the normal leveling up is a good tutorial for the game, after which if you wanna PL... knock yourself out.  

 

That's not any kind of rule.  That's just good advice.

I agree. But even if you're an ae baby you're going to learn the game some time albeit with a harsh landing socially.

[COH Radgen]

As a player who is experienced enough to know which zone is which and how to get to them, I use AE and/or events to power level alts when I feel comfortable with my knowledge of the power choices on that alt.  If I already have a tank with given powers and want to try a brute with the same power sets to see how they differ, or mix with a different primary/secondary to see how they synergize. 

 

If I'm trying power sets I haven't used before, I'll usually run in level appropriate teams/missions to get an understanding of the powers, at least up to the 20's if not 30's.  At that point I know what powers I have, when and how to use them for a team's benefit, and can see if I like it enough to start slotting in IOs.

[The Trouble]

1 hour ago, Octogoat said:

I agree. But even if you're an ae baby you're going to learn the game some time albeit with a harsh landing socially.

I also agree with @ZemX, but here is where you touched on why these discussions become heated.  I don't mind "carrying" a player with a sub-optimal build.  I do, however, get frustrated having to instruct another player about every single action when I invited them onto a team so I could count on them to increase my fun. 

 

That's basically where the power level stigma comes from: you trying to play the game, while also being forced to play text-based adventure game for a completely different character.

 

 

Remember those days?!

Holster gun.

-I don't know how to do that.

 

Use holster.

-I don't know how to do that.

 

Use gun on holster.

-I put away my gun.

 

[Octogoat]

11 minutes ago, The Trouble said:

I also agree with @ZemX, but here is where you touched on why these discussions become heated.  I don't mind "carrying" a player with a sub-optimal build.  I do, however, get frustrated having to instruct another player about every single action when I invited them onto a team so I could count on them to increase my fun. 

 

That's basically where the power level stigma comes from: you trying to play the game, while also being forced to play text-based adventure game for a completely different character.

 

 

Remember those days?!

Holster gun.

-I don't know how to do that.

 

Use holster.

-I don't know how to do that.

 

Use gun on holster.

-I put away my gun.

 

I still play MUDs from time to time so I definitely know that feel!

[battlewraith]

There is no stigma. People have been complaining about PLing since 2004 and they will continue to do so as long as the game is around. 

If someone is annoying you for any reason, you don't have to play with them. If you can't find a team, join an sg, go to a more populated server, etc.

[nzer]

I don't think anyone really cares. There are always a million people in LFG advertising farms, PI teams, or asking to sit.

 

I personally wouldn't do it, just because exemplaring significantly below 32 destroys your enhancement bonuses. Depending on your powersets it can make going back for that content later pretty painful. But if you like doing it, more power to you.

[kelika2]

NG+ has been around while

infact I was playing Champions of Norrath for the ps2 and using save files to ground transfer gems and stuff to low level characters and boom soloed innoruk with a level 1 ranger

[tidge]

I don't PL any of my characters, but I also don't look down my nose at anyone who has. I usually start new characters with P2W/START goodies to make the early levels more enjoyable.

 

For me: There is too much content I want to experience outside of AE (or DFB)... a trivial example is collecting merits from zone exploration badges. Another common feel I try to get is for a new character's costume. There is almost always some tweak/change I find I want to make, so running around maps is a good way to study a new costume.

 

A side effect of 'natural play' for me, and maybe this applies to other players, is that I learn how powers work for a certain AT/primary/secondary, and which ones are valuable at which level. A couple of simple examples that have informed my build choices: Hasten below level 20 (or before the character has any long-recharge powers) seems completely wasteful of a power pick to me. I also see builds cramming in defensive toggles (often including Kick/Tough/Weave) for more than IO mules likely because "MIDS numbers go up"... but on a lot of characters I play through regular content, I find that the builds are doing just fine without +1.75% more Defense.

 

I'm just as guilty of having my own set of preferred build choices(*1), in my defense: I am almost always trying to leverage the powers for the concept, and not be driven by numbers. I get those feels from regular play, and I find the level 50 build to mostly be a reward that can take a character I've been playing to another level.

 

(*1) for me, I like to improve the performance of the blue bar balanced against faster-recharging clicks... and I squeeze-in common globals/uniques for quality-of-life reasons.

[MoonSheep]

31 minutes ago, tidge said:

I don't PL any of my characters, but I also don't look down my nose at anyone who has. I usually start new characters with P2W/START goodies to make the early levels more enjoyable.

 

For me: There is too much content I want to experience outside of AE (or DFB)... a trivial example is collecting merits from zone exploration badges. Another common feel I try to get is for a new character's costume. There is almost always some tweak/change I find I want to make, so running around maps is a good way to study a new costume.

 

A side effect of 'natural play' for me, and maybe this applies to other players, is that I learn how powers work for a certain AT/primary/secondary, and which ones are valuable at which level. A couple of simple examples that have informed my build choices: Hasten below level 20 (or before the character has any long-recharge powers) seems completely wasteful of a power pick to me. I also see builds cramming in defensive toggles (often including Kick/Tough/Weave) for more than IO mules likely because "MIDS numbers go up"... but on a lot of characters I play through regular content, I find that the builds are doing just fine without +1.75% more Defense.

 

I'm just as guilty of having my own set of preferred build choices(*1), in my defense: I am almost always trying to leverage the powers for the concept, and not be driven by numbers. I get those feels from regular play, and I find the level 50 build to mostly be a reward that can take a character I've been playing to another level.

 

(*1) for me, I like to improve the performance of the blue bar balanced against faster-recharging clicks... and I squeeze-in common globals/uniques for quality-of-life reasons.

 

i agree with everything here and @COH Radgen’s post. it’s valuable to understand how an AT or powerset works before throwing yourself into high end content

 

we see at times people asking to be handed a build for their new alt without a any thoughts on how to actually play the character. people are interested in learning how to drive a car and are worried about whether the power output of the ferrari 488 is enough or if they should get the 488 pista

 

i would also like to specifically agree with Tidges point on needlessly (at times) building for defense. the seemingly everlasting FoTM is that every alt should be built defensively and played as a scrapper which is a shame as there’s a number of squishy ATs which are even better when played to the strengths of the AT

[Mopery]

Hey, you do you.

[RCU7115]

I PL almost all of my toons to 50 and get them I'D d out. I then will start or join  a Posi 1 or 2 or a Synapse to get a feel for the toon before running any higher level content. 

[SmokinIndo]

I've been playing the game on and off since 2005, and I had no idea there was any stigma towards people PLing their toons. You only need to experience the content once. Badges are completely optional.

 

I tend to make several ATs/builds of the same toon, because I may not be 100% set on a primary/secondary. The thought of playing through the entire game over and over again would drive me insane and make me quit the concept entirely. In fact, I've done that before. I completely gave up on my shield toon because the thought of making a SJ/Shield Scrapper after leveling/slotting/incarnating a SJ/Shield Stalker just exhausted me.

 

That being said, for anyone that wants to experience the content, I think that visiting story arcs through natural progression is superior to Ourboros, and I highly recommend that people try it. Pick up the concealment pool early so you can blow through missions with simple objectives. I think there is something rewarding taking your character on this journey from fighting street thugs, to taking down political terrorists.

[TheOtherTed]

On 2/1/2025 at 9:45 PM, nzer said:

I don't think anyone really cares.

True.  Speaking for myself, I stopped caring when I stopped teaming.  That said, I remember the month or two after AE first dropped - seemed like there was no one in the open world anymore.

 

Just out of curiosity, has PLing changed much since Live?  I know that super-sidekicking killed the 46 level tell spam, but has it been affected otherwise?

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, SmokinIndo said:

I've been playing the game on and off since 2005, and I had no idea there was any stigma towards people PLing their toons.

I don't think it was towards people who've played characters through to 50 normally PLing their alts, but towards the people who joined the game, immediately dived into the AE building, and came out as 50s who would ask "How do you get to Steel Canyon?" when invited to join a Posi TF — the "AE babies", which likely included the people coming from other MMOs where the progress to level cap is a mostly content-free grind, and the game doesn't really start until you reach level cap, who don't understand that the story in CoH is woven through the whole leveling experience, who powered their way to 50 only to discover how little actual endgame there was.

[tidge]

47 minutes ago, TheOtherTed said:

Just out of curiosity, has PLing changed much since Live?  I know that super-sidekicking killed the 46 level tell spam, but has it been affected otherwise?

 

Since Live? Only a few things have "changed" (to where they are now) specific to "gimme lots of XP real quick":

• 2XP boosters are available, there are no longer any "boosters" or settings for "less XP more Inf".
• Patrol XP and "experienced" temp powers are available.
• There are is more "league content" available for level 1.
• For level 50+s, the Incarnate grind is pretty much the same as a PL grind.

There are a whole lotta changes related to how IOs can be obtained (for less effort than on LIVE), but that is a parallel discussion topic. I mention this only because it allows a sort of a skip from having "insta-50s" that don't have powers slotted... which is a thing I remember seeing on Live.

 

[Jacke]

On 2/1/2025 at 1:07 PM, Octogoat said:

I hope it doesn't get too heated. I used to be in story arc camp but lately I just want to get my IOs in so they aren't burning a hole in my bank.

 

I've been fairly brutal clearing stock from my Everlasting Base, because it's Homecoming Live and I can get stuff easily from the Auction House and elsewhere.

 

It's another story on Vanguard, 'cause that Closed Beta and things are rather harder to get.  My Base storage is chock full and I'm reluctant to sell it off.

 

 

[biostem]

On 2/1/2025 at 6:48 AM, Octogoat said:

I don't see what the stigma is. I went back and ouroboros'd all the missions, making different choices each time after IOing. You still experience content just with swim floaties.

The 'stigma" isn't about people like you, who likely have a lot of experience with the game and know what they're doing;  It's with the "AE babies" that only know the inside of a farm, with virtually no practical play experience or how to play their character(s), (perhaps only knowing how to apply SB or some other buff, if even capable of that much).

[Ukase]

I have a clear memory on retail of various controllers and defenders getting a little upset because fire tanks didn't need their help to clear a map. Mind you, they had a use if you wanted to clear the map faster. But a lot of farmers just didn't want to share the XP with them, as they were trying to PL another player with a "bridge". So, as fire farming became more prevalent, there was a lot of discontent because a number of the squishy classes weren't getting teams like they had before. 

And while in today's version of CoH, people get more irritated about a new player getting to 50 and not understanding the basics, there's still a number of folks who are irritated that the folks farming aren't playing with the rest of the community in general. 

[biostem]

5 hours ago, Ukase said:

there's still a number of folks who are irritated that the folks farming aren't playing with the rest of the community in general. 

TBH, at least IMO, farmers dump a lot of items on the AH, which helps drive prices down, but even with that in mind, most farmers play highly specialized builds, which don't do quite as well outside of the AE or against more varied enemy types.  That isn't to say they wouldn't do well in other settings or content, only that I've never thought to myself "gee, I sure wish I had a farmer's character outside of the AE and on my team right about now"...

[MoonSheep]

7 hours ago, biostem said:

The 'stigma" isn't about people like you, who likely have a lot of experience with the game and know what they're doing;  It's with the "AE babies" that only know the inside of a farm, with virtually no practical play experience or how to play their character(s), (perhaps only knowing how to apply SB or some other buff, if even capable of that much).

 

apply SB twice per TF*
 

you’ve had your allocation for the next 10 minutes, now watch these cool T1 and T2 elec blasts, bzzzzt!

[Octogoat]

2 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

 

apply SB twice per TF*
 

you’ve had your allocation for the next 10 minutes, now watch these cool T1 and T2 elec blasts, bzzzzt!

Dear god