How can Radiation heroes justify using their powers?

[El D]

17 minutes ago, Zombra said:

 

This is an important point.  In the absence of an explanation, to me radiation sounds potentially much worse than fire, bullets, or a punch in the face.  Really this is why this thread exists at all.  It felt like Radiation powers need enough of an explanation to say "It's OK, these powers don't actually irradiate the environment or leave behind residue."  We can intuitively see that Fire powers don't burn anything down, but we can't see that Radiation doesn't leave behind invisible contamination.  No story ever about radioactive weapons said "And everything was fine and safe the next day," yknow?

 

Looking at CoH's powersets and requiring any explanation reliant on real world physics and science is just going to keep causing this disconnect because it's a video game. Any connections to the real world are verisimilitude, included to make a point about the game's lore, the plot of a story arc, and/or the nature of its community. To the point about 'no evidence of no contamination' there's no evidence that radiation powers in CoH do cause any ambient effects like real world radiation does either. As far as the game goes, it's very explicit about when and where the radiation effects are active via the neon green glow and the bubble SFX and also about what that does (Energy damage and -Defense, usually). Where that stops, the radiation stops. There's no post-mission text that pops up for radiation powersets saying a hazmat team arrives with Geiger counters and gives iodine pills to all the defeated bad guys and rescued hostages.

 

Not that that wouldn't be an interesting take for a character, but that's purely up to an individual player to choose for themselves. Including the real world effects of powersets can be a fantastic source of drama and I have a friend who had a radiation defender with this exact gimmick of 'and now all those guys go to the hospital with radiation sickness' but that's all that is - a personal story gimmick. Any 'game canon' explanation beyond that would just be the same as any other baked-in handwave for the other powersets. The game ignores the 'real effects' of radiation the same way it ignores how a super strong Tanker can flip giant mechs like pancakes but not rip the head off every human enemy they fight with the same uppercut.

[Zombra]

41 minutes ago, El D said:

To the point about 'no evidence of no contamination' there's no evidence that radiation powers in CoH do cause any ambient effects like real world radiation does either.

 

What you're ignoring is the popular understanding that radiation can have lasting effects that are not visible.

 

When a Fire Blaster's Blazing Bolt animation is finished and nothing is burning 3 seconds later, anyone who has ever heard of fire knows that once you no longer see the fire, it is because there is no more fire.  It's intuitively obvious.

 

When a Radiation Blaster's Neutron Bomb is finished, anyone who has heard of atomic or radioactive weapons has a good reason to wonder about lingering, harmful radiation, even though you can't see it any more.  Intuition alone is not enough to justify an assumption that the danger is over.

 

This is a substantial difference.

 

As much as everyone wants to say "Ahhh no powers make sense, everything is equally unbelievable," this is simply not the case.

 

Edited yesterday at 06:04 PM by Zombra

[catsi563]

On 4/4/2025 at 9:13 AM, Ghost said:

It doesn’t have to be radiation.  You can write it to be anything your imagination can come up with.

exactly my healer Lifeline uses empathy and rad blast I have the rad blast as green bio enerrgy that she uses to stun and disrupt bad guys

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Zombra said:

What you're ignoring is the popular understanding that radiation can have lasting effects that are not visible.

At this point I do not believe you are arguing in good faith.  This is a comic book setting, where real science doesn't apply.  Radiation in CoH does NOT work like it does in real life, full stop.

[GM Crumpet]

On 4/4/2025 at 9:36 AM, Snarky said:

no radiation! safe heroes only please

I loved the Tick, I'm sad they cancelled it. 

[Scarlet Shocker]

1 hour ago, Zombra said:

 

As much as everyone wants to say "Ahhh no powers make sense, everything is equally unbelievable," this is simply not the case.

 

 

In an entirely fictional game setting, that is simply not true.

 

[Snarky]

12 minutes ago, GM Crumpet said:

I loved the Tick, I'm sad they cancelled it. 

The Tick is never cancelled.   The Tick is just awaiting a new interpretation!

[Healix]

Edited yesterday at 08:02 PM by Healix

[Healix]

2 hours ago, Uncle Shags said:

Oh, I got it!  If a super is capable of controlling radiation to the point where they can form it into a ball and chuck it like an exploding pumpkin, then they could probably also collect all the radiation in the room, including sucking it out of bystander's bodies.

[lemming]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

The Tick is never cancelled.   The Tick is just awaiting a new interpretation!

It's why I still have my run of Tick comics

[merrypessimist]

The answer is clearly "Because I don't care about the fallout."

[Octogoat]

2 hours ago, merrypessimist said:

The answer is clearly "Because I don't care about the fallout."

Okey dokey

[High_Beam]

In my sixth book, the Malta Group had exfiltrated the research the Rikti carried out in the Second War relating to de-powering specific power vectors seen in humans that vexed the,  While the Rikti never deployed it (it was considered a failure in that it killed not de-powered).  Variant 17 essentially killed any individual that was able to generate or manipulate Atomo-Catalytic energies, leaving only a handful of uninfected rad slingers or those who used purely technological means.

[Neiska]

On 4/4/2025 at 12:46 AM, Zombra said:

I'm trying to make sense of a new hero concept of mine, and I want to use Radiation powers, but it just seems completely insane to go around shooting dangerous radiation everywhere.  How is it possible that Paragon City is even livable with this happening every day in every neighborhood?

 

Is there any common consensus as to why this is fine?  What's your headcanon that makes Radiation Heroes just as safe and helpful as an all-natural environmentally approved martial artist?  I'd rather have 100 Fire Blasters and Demon Summoners go through my neighborhood than a single Radiation Defender.

 

Well, going by the Heroes Unlimited Palladium (a tabletop RPG) one of the neat things is they go into more than just combat features for powers, they also elaborate on things like perks, side uses, and quality of life things. Some of the quality-of-life side bonuses are pretty neat!

 

Here are some examples for Control Radiation - 

Use yourself as a radiation damper - you can't stop a nuclear explosion, but you can make a contaminated area safe for others by soaking up the lingering radiation in an area.

Detect radioactive elements - you can sense the presence of radioactive elements and isotopes, such as uranium, plutonium, radium, thorium, polonium, etc.

Generate light/glow - you can cause your body to glow and illuminate an area.

X-ray vision - you have X-ray vision, able to see through most walls and substances, stopped by lead and lead alloys.

Discharge Nuclear Fire from limbs - you can ignite materials with a toxic fire.

Generate Heat - you can emit heat as high as 2000 degrees and have can roughly guess at a materials melting point. Some materials have a melting point beyond the heat you are able to generate, such as Titanium, Chromium, Tungsten, and Vanadium. 

 

It does go on to mention that use of this power may endanger innocent bystanders, and that you are constantly emitting a small but potentially dangerous amount of radiation that over time can cause harm. You can consciously suppress it, but doing so cuts the number of attacks and bonuses you have by half. Then they can also use Enviromental Body Armor and radiation suits to protect others.

 

So, what you could do, is have the character always wear an Armored Radiation Suit, with "ports" or controlled releases to focus the radiation? Kind of how Cyclops from X-men does with his Visor? Or you could also just say that your character is a Radioactive Sponge whose presence simply soaks up the radiation from their powers and "recycles" it to continue to fuel their abilities.

 

Just a few thoughts.

[Octogoat]

I want to see the cancer rates among radiation heroes and villains 

[Heatstroke]

On 4/4/2025 at 12:46 AM, Zombra said:

I'm trying to make sense of a new hero concept of mine, and I want to use Radiation powers, but it just seems completely insane to go around shooting dangerous radiation everywhere.  How is it possible that Paragon City is even livable with this happening every day in every neighborhood?

 

Is there any common consensus as to why this is fine?  What's your headcanon that makes Radiation Heroes just as safe and helpful as an all-natural environmentally approved martial artist?  I'd rather have 100 Fire Blasters and Demon Summoners go through my neighborhood than a single Radiation Defender.

 

So burning down neighboorhoods is ok.. 

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Heatstroke said:

 

So burning down neighboorhoods is ok.. 

[Erratic1]

If Batman can drive the atomic-powered Batmobile all over Gotham with not a care for what what is come out the exhaust, I think radiation heroes are probably okay.

 

 

But I have to admit, even as a kid I wondered about what would happen if a villain blew up the Batmobile.

[Octogoat]

1 hour ago, Erratic1 said:

If Batman can drive the atomic-powered Batmobile all over Gotham with not a care for what what is come out the exhaust, I think radiation heroes are probably okay.

 

 

But I have to admit, even as a kid I wondered about what would happen if a villain blew up the Batmobile.

It'd lose a wheel and joker would get away

[Zombra]

21 hours ago, biostem said:

At this point I do not believe you are arguing in good faith.  This is a comic book setting, where real science doesn't apply.  Radiation in CoH does NOT work like it does in real life, full stop.

 

I promise I am (though I admit a bad faith actor would probably say that either way 😄).

 

Your position seems to be that in comic books, it is implicitly understood that there is no such thing as environmentally damaging radiation.  I don't agree with that.

 

20 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

In an entirely fictional game setting, that is simply not true.

 

As I said upthread, "It's a comic book setting therefore absolutely nothing makes any sense", which you seem to be advocating, is not the same thing as "Some things are easier to believe than others."

 

Not everything in every fictional setting is only explained by "a wizard did it".  The COH setting has many aspects that are consistent with the real world.  To state that it is an "entirely fictional" setting is not true.

 

-----------

 

Let me set y'all a hypothetical situation.  I agree that hypothetical situations are never perfect for making an argument but please just think about it for a sec.

 

Suppose you are moving to Paragon City.  You don't have a lot of money and you only find two apartments you can afford.

 

At apartment #1, the property manager says, "A group of gangsters lived here. They were all shot to death last week, right here, by a vigilante superhero with an assault rifle."

 

At apartment #2, the property manager says, "A group of gangsters lived here. They were all killed last week, right here, by a vigilante superhero shooting blasts of harmful radiation."

 

Without further information, would you really think to yourself, "It doesn't matter which I choose - they are definitely equally (un)safe"?

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Zombra

[Zombra]

7 hours ago, Neiska said:

 

Well, going by the Heroes Unlimited Palladium (a tabletop RPG) one of the neat things is they go into more than just combat features for powers, they also elaborate on things like perks, side uses, and quality of life things. Some of the quality-of-life side bonuses are pretty neat!

 

Here are some examples for Control Radiation - 

 

See, this is great.  (I love Palladium in general )  They gave radiation characters explicit abilities to use their powers safely, knowing that some of their audience would have reasonable concerns about radiation powers having possible side effects that other powers don't have.

 

Hmmm, but wait - I'm sure some of our friends here will deny that Palladium Heroes Unlimited exists - there's no way a comic book setting could portray radiation as possibly contaminating the environment!

[Scarlet Shocker]

8 minutes ago, Zombra said:

 

Not everything in every fictional setting is only explained by "a wizard did it".  The COH setting has many aspects that are consistent with the real world.  To state that it is an "entirely fictional" setting is not true.

 

 

In a universe where you can rip open a hole to the dark dimension to bring forth all kinds of yukky stuff, where you can literally hit someone over the head with a huge axe as long as a short bus or where you can scream so loud no eardrum could withstand it... or indeed set someone on fire... your argument is entirely specious.

 

 

[Zombra]

50 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

In a universe where you can rip open a hole to the dark dimension to bring forth all kinds of yukky stuff, where you can literally hit someone over the head with a huge axe as long as a short bus or where you can scream so loud no eardrum could withstand it... or indeed set someone on fire... your argument is entirely specious.

 

There are many assumptions about the COH world that come from the real world.  The sky is blue, except where something extraordinary is affecting it.  People (usually) have two arms and two legs.  Streets and buildings are laid out in a reasonably familiar way.  While not a perfect replica, Paragon City is built upon the images of real world cities, and our familiarity with the real world gives us some familiarity with the setting.

 

Likewise, if we don't see something on the screen, we assume that things happen "offstage" in a way similar to the real world.  For example, although you never see an NPC eating food, it's reasonable to believe that they do.

 

Yes, outlandish, completely fictional things happen in the setting, and we can see with our eyes what those fictional things are and come to an understanding of how they work.  If we see someone lift a huge axe, we can intuitively understand that physics-defying super strength is a thing here like in comic books.  If we see a Fire Blaster shoot a wall and it doesn't catch on fire, we can intuitively understand that the wall did not catch on fire.  What we can't see is whether invisible fallout from weaponized radiation is contaminating the environment, as it can in the real world.  It's fine if you want to assume all radiation must be benign, and I'm not trying to yuck your yum; but to me, it is not intuitively obvious and again, I don't agree that there is a universal assumption in comic book settings that all radiation is benign.

 

Again - even in comic books, it's not insane to wonder if weaponized radiation has harmful side effects.

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Zombra

[Neiska]

Just my own two cents here but -

 

I think we all would agree that if CoH were a real place, it wouldn't be real for very long as real life science and cause/effect and consequences would quickly be felt, without other things like the time it takes to rebuild, both in physical terms as well as the population would make such a place un-sustainable. Even just going by the birth to death ratio as the city has a higher mortality rate than the WW2 eastern front, it simply wouldn't last long.

 

Secondly, Radiation is but one of any number of horrifying possibilities. We have people strong enough to hit the sun into a black hole. We have alternate realities, time hopping, living sentient diseases and more. And I think many of them are "over the top" entirely on purpose to create an exciting story and so on. And I am fine with that! (except for unfinished stories, but that's an unrelated topic.)

 

I am fine with people trying to explain and rationalize things. Some people like things to make sense! I am also fine with "meh, it's just a game/fictional setting" and so on. It's fine if someone doesn't go into every little detail. I would argue that leaving some things a mystery actually makes some things/characters better!

 

At the end of the day, its really up to each of us to decide how far to go on our characters. Someone can break out the chemistry or astrophysics book if they like. Someone can just handwave stuff if they want. When in doubt, "A wizard did it" or "it's a Nemesis plot" always works in a pinch. Even some pretty neat characters are "the powers that be are still trying to figure it out" can be great and lead to surprising things too.

 

So, for me both arguments hold water. There are times I googled science terms that I was unfamiliar with for inspiration and even managed to learn stuff at the same time. (I was interested in a living weapon/poison kind of character, so I was googling biological terms and definitions.) I am also fine people just wanting to sit back and have fun without every micron measured or atom accounted for. But for the people that do enjoy that, explaining the actual physics/magics/tech/whatever behind the character is part of the fun and enjoyment too.

 

No wrong opinions on this one IMO. Long as people have fun and enjoy their personal creations. 😁

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Zombra said:

Your position seems to be that in comic books, it is implicitly understood that there is no such thing as environmentally damaging radiation.  I don't agree with that.

No.  What I'm saying is that you are free to roleplay that your particular character does, in fact, leave behind harmful radiation in their wake.  The default, however, is that the radiation powers utilized by super-powered individuals, (i.e. player characters), do not, (at least not more than the few seconds the debuffing effects last on enemies).  There are areas of the game that do appear to have been ravaged by radiation, toxic waste, or other such contaminants, so those long-term effects certainly exist in-game, but from the powers our characters generally use, not so much...

Edited 3 hours ago by biostem