Sonic Attack - Siren Song or Screech?

[Force Redux]

Any experienced Sonic Attack users who wish to weigh in on either the use of Siren Song or Screech as crowd control? I can do either one or the other in my build, but I'm weighing the options:

 

1. Siren Song is a sleep, so it likely has more benefit with solo than group, but there are still adds that could be mezzed for a bit, yes? Is this practical? I've enver really used sleeps much in the past due to too much Bots/FF tooning around.

 

1. The Disorient on Screech is useful both solo or groups (ie, Malta Sappers, etc) and the sets like Razzle Dazzle or Stupify offer better DEF set bonuses than for SLeep, but its Single Target. However, it can't be broken. But until I get my aoe immobilize from Electric PP, they are likely to wander about drunkenly.

 

Any thoughts or opinions? Either for group/solo utility, or set bonuses (esp for DEF ranged capping).

 

Thanks!

[Hedgefund]

Another pro for Screech is that it has the 2nd longest duration -res debuff in Sonic, after the nuke.

 

I think you summed it up nicely - SS for soloing, Screech for teams, when, just like you said, taking a Sapper out of the fight in 1-shot is very helpful.

 

Have you considered Shockwave?  I'm experimenting with 6-slotting Shockwave with Sudden Acceleration.  Even if you choose to just slot the kb2kd proc with a different set, Shockwave is VERY good at crowd control.  It's quick recharging and any mob it hits gets knocked down.  I just chain it with Howl until the herd thins down.  It used to be a "must skip" power in Sonic but afaic now, it's a "must have".

[Ankhammon]

I'd like to vote for both to stay on the island.

 

 

S. Song is a great way to set up some groovy things like a toe bomb or just take a break mid battle for to rech/endo.

 

Screech just adds to your stunning tier 9 pbaoe for boss level action.

[Obitus]

Another pro for Screech is that it has the 2nd longest duration -res debuff in Sonic, after the nuke.

 

I think you summed it up nicely - SS for soloing, Screech for teams, when, just like you said, taking a Sapper out of the fight in 1-shot is very helpful.

 

Yeah, the max single-target -RES chain for Sonic includes Screech, AFAICT.  I'd take it for that reason, and because it's an excellent set mule for people chasing recharge and ranged DEF (Stupefy), and because of course the stun is somewhat useful on occasion.

 

Hopefully at some point in the near future, Screech will get the Sentinel treatment to buff its damage.  This seems like a natural move given the snipe changes.

 

Have you considered Shockwave?  I'm experimenting with 6-slotting Shockwave with Sudden Acceleration.  Even if you choose to just slot the kb2kd proc with a different set, Shockwave is VERY good at crowd control.  It's quick recharging and any mob it hits gets knocked down.  I just chain it with Howl until the herd thins down.  It used to be a "must skip" power in Sonic but afaic now, it's a "must have".

 

Sonic doesn't have very impressive up-front single-target damage, but I've learned to appreciate the Howl/Shockwave combo for AoE.  A mature build should be able to chain those two powers near continuously (with maybe a Shriek thrown in here and there); the damage doesn't look great on first glance, but it adds up fast, particularly with the AoE -RES debuff thrown in.  And both Howl and Shockwave have a considerably larger base range/area than a lot of other sets' cones (e.g. Fire/Ice Breath, which really require range enhancement to shine).

 

Once again, Sudden Acceleration proves itself to be a game changer.

[Rumors]

Siren's Song for solo PvE, Screech for groups or any PvP.  You can get away without running either of them, however, if there's something else that might be more important. 

[Force Redux]

Thanks folks! I do tend to team more than I solo, and I've never found myself wishing especially for a sleep ability (confuse, yes, however), so I think I will go with Screech. Shock wave sounds interesting. Not sure how I'll side that in, I'll take it to Justin and play around with it, and if I like it, see what I can do.

 

I'm paired with Force Field as my primary btw.

[Bopper]

Depending on your budget, you can actually find your optimal DPS ST attack using Screech thanks to the -res debuff. In another thread I provide some of those numbers, but basically you need lots of global recharge and minimal enhanced recharge in your powers with procs.

[Force Redux]

Depending on your budget, you can actually find your optimal DPS ST attack using Screech thanks to the -res debuff. In another thread I provide some of those numbers, but basically you need lots of global recharge and minimal enhanced recharge in your powers with procs.

 

I'm going to get to work in Pine's! Ty :)

[Force Redux]

I removed Siren Song (which was, admittedly, rather situational) and took Shockwave and slotted it in tandem with Howl for dual cone action.

 

Shockwave had the Overwhelming FOrce KD proc, since I had it.  Howl got Annhilation with the -Res proc, too.

 

Very satisfying. Extra protection, plus the cones line up nicely. I appreciate the suggestions. Next, at level 35, I'll grab Screech and slot it with Stupify (although to get the Ranged DEF, i need to also slot the KB proc IO...). Suggested alternate slotting?

[Hedgefund]

If you're only chasing ranged def, you could go with Thunderstrike.

 

Personally, I did 6-slot Stupefy in Screech due to the combo of +rch and ranged def.  The tradeoff is I have to be more mindful of using Screech - use it against mobs with a wall behind them, that kinda thing.  Or just live with knowing some scrapper is giving you side-eye sometimes.  I'm ok with that.

[Bopper]

You might consider the FF +Rch proc in Shockwave. I did that in my Dual Pistols build and I hit quite frequently, but I also play x8, so I always have tons of targets to hit.

[Force Redux]

Checking in.

 

Shockwave + Howl combo working very well with +KB proc. Eventually will fit in +Recharge proc. I'm getting better at lining up those cones. At level 39, things are feeling into place nicely. Scorpions web grenade helps keep them where they belong too. Considering I was found to skip shockwave, I appreciate the advice.

 

Next power is Screech.

[Without_Pause]

You'll pry SS from any Kin/sonic I make from its cold dead hands. SS + Fulcrum is a beautiful thing. You can add in other sets as well, ie Rad, Dark, etc.

[Force Redux]

I'm pretty tanky with FF, so I don't need it solo. If I really need a time out,I have PFF.

 

And in most groups, sleeps don't really shine.

 

But I can see SS's value with other primaries...!

 

 

[Force Redux]

Update: I ended up going back to Siren Song, especially for solo. Screech was less useful in most teams, and Siren's more useful solo. I've got my build up in another post with thoughts on the matter. All are useful, so ultimately I don't think there are any wrong choices here...

[Bopper]

Update: I ended up going back to Siren Song, especially for solo. Screech was less useful in most teams, and Siren's more useful solo. I've got my build up in another post with thoughts on the matter. All are useful, so ultimately I don't think there are any wrong choices here...

 

Screech is incredibly useful in teams, it's the big Boss melter. With it you can achieve resistance debuffs of 90+%. Without it you might only top out at high 70s. If you're not fighting AVs, you might not notice the impact and it is replacable. For me, I use it because it gives me my optimal ST attack chain (if procs are used) and my optimal ST resistance debuff chain. Actually, I have settled on a value based attack chain using Screech-Shriek-Shout-Shriek which can achieve 90% resistance debuff and provide near optimal effective DPS. That allows me to skip scream, which would be optimal in both categories, but requires too much recharge (near capped). I should caveat this that my numbers are for my rad/sonic, so Enervating Field factors in. I know you use Force Field, so you numbers would vary

[Force Redux]

Interesting. What's your global recharge Bopper?

[Force Redux]

Also was is your slotting for Screech?

[Bopper]

Also was is your slotting for Screech?

 

To maximize proc probability, I try to minimize recharge in the power with the proc. Here is a link to a discussion I had with optimizing single target attack chains. The thing I mostly want to show you is the plot, however the plot is incorporating Enervating Field, which gives a -30% resistance debuff. You won't have that. Give me a few hours and I can provide you with new plots

 

But just a heads up, I put the purple Dmg proc and the javelin Dmg proc into screech. I put another javelin Dmg proc into shout. Shriek I just 6 slot with supreme defender bastion, iirc.

[Hjarki]

I put another javelin Dmg proc into shout. Shriek I just 6 slot with supreme defender bastion, iirc.

 

With Sonic, I think that splitting both ATO sets makes a good deal of sense if you can afford losing the ranged defense. This not only gives you 10% recharge twice, but 10% range twice - and that range is crucial for the cones. Doing so gives you the first three slots of your two basic attacks and your two AE damage effects. Unfortunately, the only non-unique proc that can fit Sonic's attacks is the Toxic proc.

 

That lack of proc ability is one of the reasons I shifted to Dual Pistols. With Dual Pistols, you can get 20% for 10 sec, Achilles' Heel and Annihilation (on 4 degree cone with an extremely low AF). While there are stacking issues (primarily with Achilles' Heel - almost no one else can usefully equip Annihilation due to the AF issue), the total -resist debuffing is similar to what Sonic can do - but the damage from your attacks is enormously greater because you can triple-proc all of your single target attacks. You also get a FF engine with the target AE. Admittedly, the near-useless ultimate on Dual Pistols is a negative for the set, but Sonic's ultimate isn't really much more than a debuff/control option at this point.

 

[Bopper]

I put another javelin Dmg proc into shout. Shriek I just 6 slot with supreme defender bastion, iirc.

 

With Sonic, I think that splitting both ATO sets makes a good deal of sense if you can afford losing the ranged defense. This not only gives you 10% recharge twice, but 10% range twice - and that range is crucial for the cones. Doing so gives you the first three slots of your two basic attacks and your two AE damage effects. Unfortunately, the only non-unique proc that can fit Sonic's attacks is the Toxic proc.

 

That lack of proc ability is one of the reasons I shifted to Dual Pistols. With Dual Pistols, you can get 20% for 10 sec, Achilles' Heel and Annihilation (on 4 degree cone with an extremely low AF). While there are stacking issues (primarily with Achilles' Heel - almost no one else can usefully equip Annihilation due to the AF issue), the total -resist debuffing is similar to what Sonic can do - but the damage from your attacks is enormously greater because you can triple-proc all of your single target attacks. You also get a FF engine with the target AE. Admittedly, the near-useless ultimate on Dual Pistols is a negative for the set, but Sonic's ultimate isn't really much more than a debuff/control option at this point.

 

I do split my Superior Vigilant Assaults for two 10% recharges, but I don't split my Defender's Bastion because I want the 10% recharge with the 6-slot. I also want the Justin server to come back online so I could test what Range boosting does to the AreaFactor. I'm not sure if the original range (radius) of the cone is used or if boosting the range effectively increases the AreaFactor, which is undesirable.

 

I do have a time/dual pistols that I slot the FF proc in almost every power. I don't recall if I do much with the -res procs, but I should revisit it as the damage from my Time/DP is fairly weak, which makes me want to re-roll into a Time/Sonic

[Force Redux]

When I can swap Screech for Scream I will. Probably after I can afford to give up the Ranged defense of Thunderstrike, and proc it out. So... When I'm Incarnated.

[Bopper]

This plot assumes a 90% recharge in all powers and each attack is boosted in damage by 120% (likely from enhancements and outside buffs). The x-axis is the total recharge required for the "long-pole" power (since we assumed 90% for all powers, subtract 90% from the recharge shown to know how much additional recharge you would need from non-Alpha outside sources (Hasten, etc) to achieve the Resistance Debuff percentage and effective Damage Per Second. The chains are:

 

shriek - scream - shriek - shout (typical ST attack chain)

screech - shriek - scream - shriek (Screech has purple and javelin proc, scream has javelin proc)

screech - scream - shriek - scream (Screech has purple and javelin proc, scream has javelin proc)

screech - shriek - shout - shriek (Screech has purple and javelin proc, shout has javelin proc)

 

You'll notice the first chain requires less than 200% recharge, which is why it shows up as a straight lines on the plot. You'll see each of the other chains will eventually outperform the Shriek-Scream-Shriek-Shout chain once they have enough recharge in the powers.

[Force Redux]

This is awesome, and lol, very detailed!

 

Once I can make up the lost Defense in Incarnated, and afford purple and ATO sets, I can begin to delve into this.

 

I think I have enough recharge at this point.

[Chance Jackson]

Depending on your budget, you can actually find your optimal DPS ST attack using Screech thanks to the -res debuff. In another thread I provide some of those numbers, but basically you need lots of global recharge and minimal enhanced recharge in your powers with procs.

You have piqued my interest, last I checked PPMs went off modified recharge which does not distinguish between slotted or global recharge but if you know better please do share.