Focused Feedback: Tanker - Archetype Inherent Changes

[Excraft]

5 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Finally, I'm actually quite shocked that no one's flipped out about the nerf to Rage. So good job there!

 

What would be the point?  It's not like it would make any difference.  

[PeregrineFalcon]

3 minutes ago, Excraft said:

What would be the point?  It's not like it would make any difference.  

While that's quite obviously true (Energy Melee, Rune of Protection, etc.) it's never stopped anyone from flipping out in the past.

 

I wonder though, is it because people now realize that it won't matter or because they no longer care. I really hope it's not the second option.

[Jaxman100]

One side effect that I haven't testing much, Claws and Spines have single target ranged attacks that have shorter ranges than Throw Spines and Shockwave.  That really does make those sets feel very odd when impale won't fire off but Shockwave will. 

 

There's a lot of muscle memory that just seems to make this change feel wrong. 

[Excraft]

52 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I wonder though, is it because people now realize that it won't matter or because they no longer care. I really hope it's not the second option.

 

For me, both.  No point in shouting at the wind. 

[BrandX]

I was just curious on it, so did a pylon run test on beta and live and had a 7 second difference in time.  Though, I was worried more about ST than my AOE, as I'm sure I (personally) can handle the changes there.

[Heatstroke]

16 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I Finally, I'm actually quite shocked that no one's flipped out about the nerf to Rage. So good job there!

 

Im highly upset about it considering I have Three SS tanks.. but also realize that they simply are not going to do anything about it.  

Edited yesterday at 10:44 AM by Heatstroke

[Maelwys]

FWIW; this is what the effect of the Tanker AoE/Cone radius changes combined with the Tanker AoE/Cone "overcap" damage reductions currently looks like:



That's attack in-game listed base damage per activation at level 50 - no damage enhancement; let alone incarnates or procs.
_{[EDIT: although note that the game does include normalised values for Fiery Embrace in its display figures; so what's shown above will be a bit higher across the board than what you'd actually see in the combat log!]
[EDIT #2: Have removed the Fiery Embrace contribution since it was confusing matters. And also tweaked Fire Sword Circle's figure to use the correct average DoT damage values whilst I was at it!]}

So as things stand, 15ft base AoEs like Footstomp are going to be the least affected (and you can see that the values in its bar stay green for longer) but they'll still suffer a bit.
The most affected will be Cone attacks (such as Guarded Spin which can hit 10 foes on Brainstorm and still not reach the same overall damage as hitting 5 foes on Live!)
Single Target Attacks (and a few specific "Ranged" Cones like Shockwave and Throw Spines AFAIK) are the only Secondary Powerset attacks not impacted at all.

(Also I purposely omitted Eye of the Storm; as the damage for it currently has a display discrepancy on Brainstorm)

And FWIW, this shows why if I had to pick then I'm more in favour of keeping the "Overcap" damage reduction changes than the Gauntlet radius changes. Currently Tanker secondaries that rely heavily on cones (like Staff!) to fill out their attack chain are actually having their Single Target damage drastically cut... 😭
 

Edited 17 hours ago by Maelwys

[Uun]

34 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

That's attack in-game listed base damage per activation at level 50 - no damage enhancement; let alone incarnates or procs.

There's a display bug in the Staff powers that includes the extra damage from Fiery Embrace in the displayed total damage. This occurs on both Live and Brainstorm. You can see this if you compare the damage figure at the top of the screen to the damage details at the bottom. For example, Guarded Spin (live) shows 106.5, but when you look at the details it shows 6 ticks of 12.24 (73.44) plus 6 ticks of 5.51 (33.06) when using Fiery Embrace. (Note, the details for all the Fire attacks incorrectly label everything with Fiery Embrace, but the totals at the top appear to be correct.)

[Maelwys]

50 minutes ago, Uun said:

There's a display bug in the Staff powers that includes the extra damage from Fiery Embrace in the displayed total damage. This occurs on both Live and Brainstorm.

Yeah; I actually edited the original shortly after posting to include a note that FE damage was included in the display figures.
The proposed damage reductions apply to damage from FE in exactly the same as they do to "real" base damage though; so it's still showing the correct proportional effect.
If it's overly bothering anyone then when I get home I'll redo the figures without any FE contribution as they'd be shown in the combat log instead of in the powers display.

[Edit: Done. The original post should now have the "correct" combat-log matching values for the Staff Cones. I've also included average regular (non FE) DoT damage for FSC]
 

Edited 21 hours ago by Maelwys

[drbuzzard]

22 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Finally, I'm actually quite shocked that no one's flipped out about the nerf to Rage. So good job there!

 

Considering it's the double stacked rage which got us this adjustment, perhaps they're just penitent. 

 

Nah. 

[ZemX]

3 hours ago, Maelwys said:

(Also I purposely omitted Eye of the Storm; as the damage for it currently has a display discrepancy on Brainstorm)

 

The damage you're showing for Frozen Aura is also incorrect for a similar reason.  It's actually half of what's showing both on Live and on Brainstorm.  In other words, on Live it matches Foot Stomp's damage.  On Brainstorm, currently, it is doing less damage than Foot Stomp.

 

Basically there are some weird conditionals around some of the effects in the powers data and in-game window doesn't understand them so, in the case of FA, it's double-counting damage, essentially.  It's a similar story, but worse, for Staff Powers which have even more conditional stuff for effects based on current level of "perfection" stacks.

Live data here: https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=tanker_melee.ice_melee.frozen_aura&at=tanker

[Maelwys]

1 hour ago, ZemX said:

The damage you're showing for Frozen Aura is also incorrect for a similar reason.  It's actually half of what's showing both on Live and on Brainstorm. 

Good grief that's some convoluted coding. Looks like double-damage in PVE but only to to "RAID"-flagged mobs?
Amended.

_{I really should've caught that one earlier - I was playing my /Ice Blaster again recently until all these Tanker changes smacked me upside the head...}

[ZemX]

17 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

Good grief that's some convoluted coding. Looks like double-damage in PVE but only to to "RAID"-flagged mobs?

 

Heh.. not actually but it's very difficult to follow, to be sure.  There's another weird tag on the first effect that says "fallback - only used if no other affects apply".  In other words, the two effects really are mutually exclusive.  One applies to "raid" mobs (which I think it like AVs and maybe incarnate stuff?) and the other is everything else and the whole point of all that acrobatics was to make it so the piddly mag 2 sleep side-effect was auto-hit on some enemies but not on others.  Wild.  It's sort of funny though that it's possible to get so complicated with the powers coding that the game literally can't decipher it back into human-readable form. 

 

And like I said, Staff powers are even more complicated looking than that.  Maybe look at it sometime you have a stiff drink at the ready.

 

[Borgold]

23 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I wonder though, is it because people now realize that it won't matter or because they no longer care. I really hope it's not the second option.

Also both for me - Not being a masochist i have no intention of playing a Z dps taunt bot that needs pity invites so when this car crash goes live my tank will be stripped

Edited 13 hours ago by Borgold