Focused Feedback: Powerset - Regeneration / Proliferation to Tankers

[ScarySai]

It is basically dull pain with the rez baked in. @Troo

Edited Wednesday at 05:45 AM by ScarySai

[Troo]

45 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

It is basically dull pain with the rez baked in. @Troo

 

Except it's not. It is the sentinel power.

 

Spoiler

Proposed

When you use this power you will recover a percentage of your missing health, in addition to increasing your maximum hit points. Should you fall in battle after using this power, you can stand up and fight again. If used while defeated, you will enter stand back up and be protected from XP Debt for 90 seconds and immune to most damage for 15 seconds.

 

Existing Sentinel Second Wind

When you use this power you will recover a percentage of your missing health, in addition to increasing your maximum hit points in a similar way. The less hit points you have left, the more powerful this effect will be. Should you fall in battle, you can use this power at its maximum strength to stand up and fight again. If used while defeated, you will be protected from XP Debt for 90 seconds and immune to most damage for 15 seconds. Although this power cost no endurance, it will take drain 10 endurance if used while still standing.

 

Existing Stalker Dull Pain
Using ancient techniques, you can make yourself more resilient to pain. Thus, you can take more damage before being defeated. When you activate this power you will increase your maximum Hit Points for a couple of minutes.

Spoiler

 

Existing 

 

 

Proposed 

 

Edited Wednesday at 06:32 AM by Troo

[Troo]

How is the proposed Second Wind different from the current sentinel Second Wind?

 

I think I might be missing something. It appears the only difference is a lower activation and slightly higher recharge.

[BrandX]

7 minutes ago, Troo said:

How is the proposed Second Wind different from the current sentinel Second Wind?

 

I think I might be missing something. It appears the only difference is a lower activation and slightly higher recharge.

 

Now it'll have Dull Pain level of Recharge and Activation/Animation time.  However, what we lose in +HP in this power (compared to Dull Pain) we gain in Ailment Resistance.

Might be an issue for some...I took revive tho, so I was taking all 9 powers on my Regen Scrapper.

 

But I was checking out other things on Test, so will have to see if Second Wind maxes out HP on a Scrapper with Second Wind like DP would've.

[Wavicle]

12 minutes ago, Troo said:

How is the proposed Second Wind different from the current sentinel Second Wind?

 

I think I might be missing something. It appears the only difference is a lower activation and slightly higher recharge.

 

Second Wind on live gives you a stronger effect the lower in health you are when you activate it.

That isn't true in the new version, where you get 100% effect no matter what.

[MightyBob]

So far I'm really liking regen on tanks, I haven't tried other ATs yet but on tanks I really like it. The changes to Instant Healing/Reactive Regeneration and MoG are really nice. Having Reactive Regeneration as a toggle is huge since regen is so click heavy and the reduced activation time on MoG is a life saver. I have died so many times mid activation on my other toons it's insane. I may not have chosen the best attack powerset to test it with though. I picked Dark Melee for Soul Drain but then found I was relying far more than I anticipated on Dark Consumption. I don't think I would have that issue if I spent some time on the build though. I really didn't focus much on reducing my end consumption. In short I love the changes and am looking forward to it coming to live.

[Troo]

26 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

Now it'll have Dull Pain level of Recharge and Activation/Animation time.  However, what we lose in +HP in this power (compared to Dull Pain) we gain in Ailment Resistance.

Might be an issue for some...I took revive tho, so I was taking all 9 powers on my Regen Scrapper.

 

But I was checking out other things on Test, so will have to see if Second Wind maxes out HP on a Scrapper with Second Wind like DP would've.

 

Glad someone is looking closely at Scrappers.

 

I get taking Revive, I just don't die enough to need it. Choices are one thing. Being forced to take all 9 powers in a set seems off.

 

This is such a jumbled.. well it was until I realized this is basically a big buff for Sentinels marketed as proliferation. (I'll be back with more on this topic)

Existing Brutes/Scrappers/Stalkers are simply the casualties.

 

Sentinel

    Fast Healing > Same
    Reconstruction > Same
    Quick Recovery > Buff
    Ailment Resistance = Dismiss Pain > Buff (see image below)
    Integration > Same
    Resilience > Same
    Reactive Regeneration = Instant Regeneration > Looks like a Buff
    Second Wind > Buffed
    Moment of Glory > Buffed

 

Edited Wednesday at 08:14 AM by Troo

[Troo]

10 minutes ago, MightyBob said:

the reduced activation time on MoG is a life saver.

 

This was one folks who play and like Regen have pointed to for a while.

 

10 minutes ago, MightyBob said:

since regen is so click heavy

 

Is it? 

This is repeated so often and it always sounds like poppycock (at least to me). So let me retort.

 

Spoiler

Realistically there are only two I use somewhat regularly. One of them, Dull Pain is a once every ~2 minutes power. Does a player have to pay attention, sure.

 

Regeneration (Brutes / Scrappers)

Power	Level	Effect
Fast Healing	1	Auto: Self +Regen
Reconstruction	1	Self Heal, +Res(Toxic) [Click 60 sec (higher recharge builds ~19 sec)]
Quick Recovery	4	Auto: Self +Rec
Dull Pain	10	Self +Max HP [Click 120 sec]
Integration	16	Toggle: Self +Res(Knockback, Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Immob), +Regen, Taunt (except Scrappers)
Resilience	20	Auto: Self +Res(Disorient, All DMG)
Instant Healing	24	Click: Self +Regen [Click 650 sec]
Revive	28	Self Rez [Click 300 sec]
Moment of Glory	30	Self +DEF(All DMG but Psionics), +Res(All DMG but Psionics, Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Immob, Knockback, Repel), +Rec [Click 240 sec]

 

Same number of potential clicks as Fiery.

Bio Armor = 3/4

Dark Armor = 2

Electric Armor = 3

Energy Aura = 3

Fiery Aura = 5

Ice Armor = 2

Invulnerability = 2

Radiation Armor = 4

Regeneration = 5 (really it is 2-3, Revive..no, MoG is less clicks than inspirations and situational, IH is once in a while but no sooner than 2m 10s at rech cap)

Shield Defense = 4

Stone Armor = 1

Super Reflexes = 2

Willpower = 2

 

[Troo]

 Moment of Glory

• Cast time reduced from 2.57s to 1.5s.
• Now grants a small damage buff that decays over time.
• Now grants a small amount of Psionic and Toxic defense.

 

Comments / Questions

• Love the change in cast time. Thank you.
• Who asked for +Damage in MoG?
  • Is there some common sense reason I missed?
  • The amount is not worth whatever the tradeoff was.
• New Status Protections and Status Resistance have been added... wait no..
  • Why multiple entries for each?
    • 7.50 repel protection for 15.00s on self
      • 1.00 repel protection for 15.00s on self
    • 7.50 knock protection for 15.00s on self
      • 1.00 knock protection for 15.00s on self
    • 7.50 knockup protection for 15.00s on self
      • 1.00 knockup protection for 15.00s on self
• It appears there are undocumented changes in Moment of Glory
  • Removed in exchange for lesser values?
    • 100.00 knockup protection for 15.00s on self (reduced to 7.50) {level 1}
    • 100.00 knock protection for 15.00s on self (reduced to 7.50) {level 1}
    • 100.00 repel protection for 15.00s on self (reduced to 7.50) {level 1}
    • 1,000.00%% resistance to knockup for 15.00s on self (reduced to 100) {level 1}
    • 1,000.00%% resistance to knock for 15.00s on self (reduced to 100) {level 1} 
    • 1,000.00%% resistance to repel for 15.00s on self (reduced to 100) {level 1}
    • 9.00 immobilize protection for 15.00s on self (reduced to 7.50) {level 1}
      • 20.76 reduced to 17.30 at level 50

Spoiler

 

 

[KaizenSoze]

Fun levels of regeneration with Rebirth Radial. Nice while it lasts.

[twozerofoxtrot]

Very limited playtime, but having both Regen Debuff Resist and Recovery Debuff Resist capped at lvl 20 with the overlapping powers (on a tanker) was really nice. Only one attuned Heal IO in Fast Healing and Reactive Regen. Considering this is comparable to having two +5'd IOs and Vigor Core on a character with the previous version, I'm pretty satisfied. 

 

 

The DDR was basically unimportant when facing a lot of enemies using lethal attacks (guns and blades); it was chipped away pretty fast. But I don't hate having it.

No slotting for additional recharge resist, but I can see that 20% being a nice step-stool when paired up with a few winter sets and winter's gift.

-----------

Was able to run a lot more aggressively (again, on a tanker) at level 20 than I've been able to years prior with Regen. The early 20's always feel like a rough spot when leveling this set due to how tight slots are on powers, your recharge is still in the dumps, and MoG isn't online yet.

 

Still had to pay attention and watch insp management, but could easily clear through 0/8. Didn't try higher but I feel like 2/8 is definitely doable. Maybe another night.

 

[lemming]

Did notice when I went into the tailor after respecing my scrapper that I transferred I was being charged for Ailment resistance, etc...  to reset my choices to Minimal FX.   Only 10k each.  I have enough free tokens on my legacy chars, but others might not.

[azamean]

Please make the original Instant Regeneration on Sentinel a mutually exclusive choice with the new Reactive Regeneration just like it is on Brute.

As it stands this is a huge nerf for Sentinel IR, I'm able to get nearly 500 absorb on my Sentinel which helps its squishiness immensely, and it makes it unique

[VPrime]

Not sure if I'm reading it correctly.

 

You're getting rid of Revive...and now the only way to revive through regeneration is if you happen to have a certain power activated during defeat?

[Lazarillo]

1 minute ago, VPrime said:

You're getting rid of Revive...and now the only way to revive through regeneration is if you happen to have a certain power activated during defeat?

It's not clear from the patch notes, but you can also use Second Wind while you're defeated to revive yourself.  So it still works like the "live" version of Revive, with the added bonus that you if you use it before defeat, it can bring you back up as well.

[Geoffron]

8 hours ago, Troo said:

Who asked for +Damage in MoG?

• Is there some common sense reason I missed?
•  

 

I think the common sense reason is that most armor sets have SOME kind of damage increase, whether it's a damaging aura or some kind of buff.  There are a few other exceptions, but not many.

[Spaghetti Betty]

Hullo!

 

I'm sure it's no surprise that this is the change I'm most interested in for the new patch. I've gone on endlessly about how I'd be switching mains pretty quickly if my baby ever got ported to Tankers, so of course I wasted no time giving the new Regen a spin!

 

I've been wanting to try a Regen/SS Tanker for a long as both sets have been a thing, so that is absolutely what my "testing" experience has been with. I also prefer testing the upper end of things rather than the lower end. Anyways, here are my thoughts!

 

I'm almost flabbergasted at how great the stats look at a base level, so I wasn't really shocked at what they looked like at 50+ with a full build.

 

Here are my resting stats (with Rage, Second Wind, and Hasten active)

 

And this is what they looked like after scrapping with Cims for a little bit! (Rune of Protection active)

 

Granted, I had to eyeball a lot of my build choices and it wasn't perfect by any means. I also don't slot full sets in my attacks for the most part (I do be procbombing), so I'm sure more defensive numbers could be squeezed out.

 

But, needless to say, Cims were not making a dent in my HP, like, at all! So I had to find bigger fish to boil.

 

So, I tried some Carnies at +4x8. They really didn't stand a chance. The only thing I felt was my blue bar disappearing. Speaking of the blue bar, I could definitely feel the presence of another toggle. Now, a proc bomb SS is going to be pretty endurance hungry, but it's not usually a gigantic issue when running my Regen Brute on live. Maybe it's placebo, I dunno!

 

To conclude my stress test, I decided to take on Arachnos at +4x8. Just to see, I yolo pulled about 30 of them, something Regen shouldn't be able to do. And, it went about as well as I expected it. I got sapped, held, and splatted. So, I can definitely tell you for certain this iteration of Regen will explode when faced with debuffs, even with the protection it's being given! Don't worry, I got back up and pwned them.

 

Speaking of getting up, I had Second Wind active when I went down, but I wasn't given the prompt to come back. So, I used Return to Battle, activated Second Wind again, and went down on purpose. I was given the prompt the second time, so there might be a bit of an inconsistency issue!

 

 

I'm not a huge numbers tester, but I can definitely say from a feel standpoint that the changes are fantastic. I was really worried that the identity of the set was going to be gutted when I heard there was a revamp in the works, but this is a great way to make the set much stronger without completely changing how it functions, and I really appreciate that!

[Wavicle]

10 minutes ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

Speaking of getting up, I had Second Wind active when I went down, but I wasn't given the prompt to come back. So, I used Return to Battle, activated Second Wind again, and went down on purpose. I was given the prompt the second time, so there might be a bit of an inconsistency issue!

Not entirely sure, but I think the instant revive part may not persist when changing zones. Did you have the buff up already when you entered the mission?

[Spaghetti Betty]

Just now, Wavicle said:

Not entirely sure, but I think the instant revive part may not persist when changing zones. Did you have the buff up already when you entered the mission?

I just passively click it whenever it's up, so that might have been the case! I can check again whenever I have the time.

[StarkWhite]

9 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Not entirely sure, but I think the instant revive part may not persist when changing zones. 

I'm pretty sure that's correct.

[BrandX]

12 hours ago, Troo said:

 

Glad someone is looking closely at Scrappers.

 

I get taking Revive, I just don't die enough to need it. Choices are one thing. Being forced to take all 9 powers in a set seems off.

 

This is such a jumbled.. well it was until I realized this is basically a big buff for Sentinels marketed as proliferation. (I'll be back with more on this topic)

Existing Brutes/Scrappers/Stalkers are simply the casualties.

 

Sentinel

    Fast Healing > Same
    Reconstruction > Same
    Quick Recovery > Buff
    Ailment Resistance = Dismiss Pain > Buff (see image below)
    Integration > Same
    Resilience > Same
    Reactive Regeneration = Instant Regeneration > Looks like a Buff
    Second Wind > Buffed
    Moment of Glory > Buffed

 

 

I feel a set should have every power worth selecting and it should be a hard choice to pass a primary/secondary up, but I get that people like the idea of a bad power, so they can fit in more Pool Powers. 🙂

[macskull]

1 hour ago, Geoffron said:

I think the common sense reason is that most armor sets have SOME kind of damage increase, whether it's a damaging aura or some kind of buff.  There are a few other exceptions, but not many.

This is it, giving Regen some sort of offensive boost was a common request during Closed Beta and this is how they chose to do it. Would still much rather have recharge, but oh well.

[Taoquex]

After playtesting the sentinel regen changes

the removed absorb shield given by instant regeneration is huge loss

I play on everlasting and my main is Elec/Regen sentinel- Cavalon- my favorite toon

I am nearing the 1000 badge mark and have hundreds of hours on this toon.

Regen has been a poor set for all the melee toons for a while so the changes im sure are welcome for them,

but for my sentinel the loss of 475 absorb is too much. ive gone from being able to take an alpha strike - drain the enemy of endurance and regenerate in their downtime to simply dieing without teammates pulling for me-- this is what set this toon apart for me 

with no hard shell its just slightly better version of the old poor performing regen that melee has been complaining about for years. 

giving the option of Instant Regeneration and Reactive Regeneration id take the absorb every time.  

give this set Absorb--somewhere -- please

 

[Wavicle]

5 minutes ago, Taoquex said:

After playtesting the sentinel regen changes

the removed absorb shield given by instant regeneration is huge loss

I play on everlasting and my main is Elec/Regen sentinel- Cavalon- my favorite toon

I am nearing the 1000 badge mark and have hundreds of hours on this toon.

Regen has been a poor set for all the melee toons for a while so the changes im sure are welcome for them,

but for my sentinel the loss of 475 absorb is too much. ive gone from being able to take an alpha strike - drain the enemy of endurance and regenerate in their downtime to simply dieing without teammates pulling for me-- this is what set this toon apart for me 

with no hard shell its just slightly better version of the old poor performing regen that melee has been complaining about for years. 

giving the option of Instant Regeneration and Reactive Regeneration id take the absorb every time.  

give this set Absorb--somewhere -- please

 

I’m curious to know about the level, build, and missions you tried this with, because this was not my experience.

[Taoquex]

5 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

I’m curious to know about the level, build, and missions you tried this with, because this was not my experience.

solo 54x8 paper missions  

sorry i dont really have a easy way to share my build