Review of i28 P2 on Massively

[ShardWarrior]

From the article -

 

Quote

When we first looked at the beta patch notes for City of Heroes: Homecoming’s i28p2 Legacy, the first joke I made to MOP’s Bree was that we can tell the game’s current operators have inherited one trait from Paragon Studios: a complete failure to understand or establish whom the game is being balanced for, much less why.

 

https://massivelyop.com/2025/05/29/into-the-super-verse-what-the-heck-is-going-on-with-balancing-in-city-of-heroes-homecoming/

 

I do agree with some of the points they make.  Others, not so much.  Interesting read regardless.

[Wavicle]

Nah, they have no idea what they're talking about.

[PeregrineFalcon]

I think Bree might be a tad bit unhappy about the current "Rush, rush, rush, DPS, DPS, DPS!!!!" meta.

 

[biostem]

I think their perspective on the game's meta is derived from seeing people call for "speed" TFs or farms, not realizing that those don't comprise the majority of players, (only a small loud subsection)...

Edited Friday at 11:44 PM by biostem

[Captain Fabulous]

I don't know who this twit is, but he has no f*cking clue what he's talking about. 

[Captain Fabulous]

5 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I think Bree might be a tad bit unhappy about the current "Rush, rush, rush, DPS, DPS, DPS!!!!" meta.

 

Awesome, so she has no f*cking clue what she's talking about either.

[shortguy on indom]

• THIS THREAD SHOULD BE MOVED TO THE "SUGGESTIONS" SUB-FORUM, WHERE THE REVIEWER WILL REGRET THAT THEY POSTED ANYTHING AT ALL.

[biostem]

37 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Can you think of any currently operating game that doesn't have some "toxic" and/or otherwise undesirable segment, (be they miniscule or otherwise)?  I also think that neither the forums nor the discord are accurate representations of the player base.  It's like being angry at an entire shopping mall because the panda express guy said he didn't like your taste in food...

[skoryy]

4 minutes ago, biostem said:

Can you think of any currently operating game that doesn't have some "toxic" and/or otherwise undesirable segment, (be they miniscule or otherwise)?  I also think that neither the forums nor the discord are accurate representations of the player base.  It's like being angry at an entire shopping mall because the panda express guy said he didn't like your taste in food...

 

I'll repeat what I said on /r/sto the other day, since it fits the discussion: Reddit, forums, Discords, and all offline discussion will have to tiers of builds, powers, et al:
 

1. Optimal

2. Trash

[srmalloy]

44 minutes ago, biostem said:

I think their perspective on the game's meta is derived from seeing people call for "speed" TFs or farms, not realizing that those don't comprise the majority of players, (only a small loud subsection)...

To be fair, it's not just the people who are forming teams for a TF and announcing it as 'speed', but the players in the team deciding to rush the objectives to get it over with and get the rewards quickly, so their perspective may be influenced as much by the rest of the team pushing for faster completion as it is from the people soliciting for 'speed' TFs.

[biostem]

12 minutes ago, skoryy said:

1. Optimal

2. Trash

Not that I disagree, but I think a big divide occurs when those who play to realize some concept or just "for fun", come up against those who play with a degree of powergaming/roflstomping in mind... 

Edited yesterday at 12:39 AM by biostem

[Ruin Mage]

Trashing Bree here on the forums, a place she likely reads, is real small pp behavior. She has a view/opinion, that's all. Similar with the article author.

The opening line about inheriting from PStudios is...rough though.

[biostem]

7 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

To be fair, it's not just the people who are forming teams for a TF and announcing it as 'speed', but the players in the team deciding to rush the objectives to get it over with and get the rewards quickly, so their perspective may be influenced as much by the rest of the team pushing for faster completion as it is from the people soliciting for 'speed' TFs.

Sure that can happen, but my next question would be, well how many such people need be on a team to "spoil the batch", so to speak.  What if this journalist wasn't respecting the other people's time, stopping to smell every rose or read over all the flavor text, instead of keeping up with their team?  The answer is we don't know how things transpired.  In a setting like a TF, (unless you're soloing it), it isn't about just what you want, anymore, and some people may have difficulty putting their wants aside to complete a team-focused task...

Edited yesterday at 12:38 AM by biostem

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Ruin Mage said:

Trashing Bree here on the forums, a place she likely reads, is real small pp behavior. She has a view/opinion, that's all. Similar with the article author.

What do you consider "trashing"?  Is raising valid concerns or critiquing their conclusion, "trashing" them?  I'm sure they are fully capable of defending themselves, (and hopefully not further doubling down by saying that any criticism of them is an attack, in classic crybully fashion)...

[skoryy]

8 minutes ago, biostem said:

Not that I disagree, but I think a big divide occurs when those who play to realize some concept or just "for fun", come up against those who play with a degree of powergaming/roflstomping in mind... 

 

And everyone, like myself, in between.

[Clave Dark 5]

There's also

• "speed of mob clearing" which the devs do indeed seem to love encouraging via giving us Fold Space, more of the anti-repel powers to draw them together
• the rush to 50, so we can T4 out our toons quickly "and then start playing the game." 
• Both of those help out with farming because we rush to have all the shiny bits now "to play the game."

Seems to me to be a fairly valid read of the general assumptions behind how a majority of players play - and what the devs aim for.

 

A hit dog holler as they say, and I expect to hear a lot of hollering, judging by what's already been posted in this wonderfully accepting and friendly community of ours.  😏

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, skoryy said:

And everyone, like myself, in between.

Granted.  I don't think anybody lies 100% on either extreme...

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

There's also

• "speed of mob clearing" which the devs do indeed seem to love encouraging via giving us Fold Space, more of the anti-repel powers to draw them together
• the rush to 50, so we can T4 out our toons quickly "and then start playing the game." 
• Both of those help out with farming because we rush to have all the shiny bits now "to play the game."

Seems to me to be a fairly valid read of the general assumptions behind how a majority of players play - and what the devs aim for.

 

A hit dog holler as they say, and I expect to hear a lot of hollering, judging by what's already been posted in this wonderfully accepting and friendly community of ours.  😏

Nice Kafka-esque setup you've made for yourself there;  If you don't agree with me, you must be part of the "wonderfully accepting and friendly community", right?  It's not that these are valid criticisms, no... let's attack those making such critiques...

[Psyonico]

I agree with what some of the author says, but also disagree overall with his entire premise.  I don’t remember all of the changes in the current patch notes, but I feel like it’s pretty much “seeds is getting nerfed and every other set is getting adjusted in a way that hurts proc damage but improves control”. And on top of that, plant is getting additional control to offset the nerf to seeds.

 

If my assessment of the patch notes is correct, he’s saying that all controllers are getting worse because a single power that everyone knew was overpowered is getting put in check.

[Captain Fabulous]

26 minutes ago, Ruin Mage said:

Trashing Bree here on the forums, a place she likely reads, is real small pp behavior. She has a view/opinion, that's all. Similar with the article author.

The opening line about inheriting from PStudios is...rough though.

I have no idea who she is and frankly don't care. I speak only of what she's stated, which is just plain wrong and just as reactionary and toxic as the shit she claims to rail against.

The game can be played in any manner one likes. No one is forced to play "the meta". No one is forced to do anything they don't like or enjoy. The majority of the playerbase aren't the hardcore meta players, they're people who have suboptimal builds with SOs and common IOs, who either solo, play with small groups of their friends, or hop on to do a quick TF every now and again. Moreover, it sounds like neither one of them have actually PLAYED the beta, only read and reacted to the notes. Which is wholly unacceptable for a "journalist".

Their uninformed conclusions also spit in the face of those of us who spent MONTHS in closed beta testing all these updates and changes. It's a garbage hit piece by people who clearly have an axe to grind.

[Captain Fabulous]

4 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

I agree with what some of the author says, but also disagree overall with his entire premise.  I don’t remember all of the changes in the current patch notes, but I feel like it’s pretty much “seeds is getting nerfed and every other set is getting adjusted in a way that hurts proc damage but improves control”. And on top of that, plant is getting additional control to offset the nerf to seeds.

 

If my assessment of the patch notes is correct, he’s saying that all controllers are getting worse because a single power that everyone knew was overpowered is getting put in check.

Exactly. Plant got rebalanced with the emphasis taken off Seeds, which has always been grossly overpowered. Controllers are getting massive buffs in this build with deep sleep, adaptive recharge, expanded containment, and pet control. To read all that and think "oh Controllers are getting nerfed" means you're either completely unfamiliar with the game or 10000% disingenuous.

[Snarky]

I am a team leader.  Yeah, i know, i suck.  But, over the last couple years i led a LOT of PUG TF/SF/Trials.  Pre50 or regular 50. Not incarnate. I did it because my favorite way to “speed level” a new toon is to do every TF/SF/Trials in level order. (With the highest level in the range as the key) Those are my bona fides. 
 

In my opinion the article is spot on.  But, and this may be biased a lot, I advertise for speedy. Full disclosure.  People like speed.  I have joined a lot of content. Most folks go fast. 
 

Then there is the crew i run with Friday and Sunday. Justice Superteamers are “Murder Hobos”. Everything cranked up and killing everyone.  No matter how long it takes. 
 

The points made about “balancing” controls hit home. How are they effective in the modern game?

[PeregrineFalcon]

7 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Their uninformed conclusions also spit in the face of those of us who spent MONTHS in closed beta testing all these updates and changes. It's a garbage hit piece by people who clearly have an axe to grind.

It's weird too. They talk about the devs supporting the DPS "rusher meta", and yet the devs just nerfed the damage output of tanks. And maybe I missed it, but I didn't see a big buff to any other AT's damage output. So where's this huge support by the Homecoming devs of this supposed "rusher meta"?

 

Now I haven't been on the Homecoming discord server in years, so I don't know if you all are as "toxic and arrogant" as she claims, but I have to agree. It looks to me like she's really angry and really grinding that axe.

[srmalloy]

54 minutes ago, biostem said:

What if this journalist wasn't respecting the other people's time, stopping to smell every rose or read over all the flavor text, instead of keeping up with their team?  The answer is we don't know how things transpired. 

It's one TF, but you can see how widespread the 'rush the goals' attitude is if you suggest that the team take the time to clear the doors in the detention area if one appears on a Council base map during a Citadel TF. In all of my time on Homecoming, I have not once had the team agree that it was worth the time to take out the doors for progress on the Doorbuster badge, with a 'genteel' rejection being "You can get those on your own, don't hold up the TF".

[Psyonico]

10 minutes ago, Snarky said:

People like speed.

SOME people like speed.

 

it always pisses me off when I join a TF that is not advertised as a speed run and some random member of the team decides to rush to the end of every mission while the rest of the team is still fighting the first group.