Open Lettur from Disgruntled Player regarding Plant Control

[Nayeh]

Oh no. No, no, no.

What is going on with these Plant Control changes, Homecoming devs?

 

Let’s start with this: Carrion Creepers. One of the most iconic and beloved powers in the entire Control archetype lineup. The chaotic, glorious patch of hungry vines that made every Plant Controller feel like nature’s wrath incarnate. And now? “VFX now moves along with the pet patch” — okay, sure.
But then:

“This power should no longer execute an excessive proc cascade.”

Excuse me?

The joy of Carrion Creepers was precisely in its wild, unpredictable energy. Watching it devour spawns with a beautiful tangle of proc-fueled chaos was half the point. This "fix" doesn’t feel like balance. It feels like sterilization. You’re not tuning this power, you’re castrating it. What’s left is a pale imitation that no longer lives up to the fantasy or fun.

And let's be real — this is a disgusting approach, targeting specific abilities simply because they can capitalize on procs. That’s not game health, that’s anti-player agency. Procs are one of the few systems in the game that offer real build diversity and creativity. They give players meaningful choices and allow them to express their playstyle beyond cookie-cutter builds. Stop trying to nerf anything that uses them effectively and start embracing what they bring to the table. Procs aren’t a problem, they’re a feature — and one of the best parts of modern CoH design.

 

 

Then we have Seeds of Confusion.

From scale 20 to scale 8.
A punishing Adaptive Recharge that increases based on how well the power does its job.
A target cap dropped from 16 to 10 (thankfully reverted, but the fact it was even on the table is telling).

This power was one of the most thematically satisfying and tactically flexible tools in the game. Now, it feels deliberately undermined. And let’s be honest, the new scaling recharge mechanic is just a veiled cooldown tax meant to cripple large-group effectiveness. You’re penalizing players for using the power to its full potential.

And while we’re at it, who in their right mind thinks it’s a good idea to include both Confuse and Taunt in the same powerset?
You’re asking enemies to attack a tree while also making them attack each other. It's not synergy, it’s a mechanical contradiction. It creates confusion (pun intended) not just in enemies, but in the players themselves. How are we supposed to build strategies around a kit that doesn’t even know what role it wants to fill?

 

 

The Spirit Tree changes? A total tone-deaf overhaul.
Attackable now?
Taunts enemies?
Shorter lifespan and more vulnerable, even with some regen aura sticking around after death?
This isn't an upgrade, it's a downgrade wrapped in a patch note. The Spirit Tree was a peaceful, supportive anchor. Now it's a disposable aggro magnet that dies faster than it heals. That’s not better, that’s just frustrating.

And yes, there are a few "buffs" to things like Vines and Fly Trap, but they’re not enough to make up for what you’re ripping out of the heart of the set.

 

 

And here’s what you really need to hear:

I, and many others, are losing excitement for this game because of updates like this. This isn’t just about Plant Control. It’s about a pattern of over-nerfing powers that players love. Every time you rework something into a shadow of its former self, you erode trust and enjoyment. We’re not just disappointed, we’re logging in less. And don’t you dare blame declining numbers on "summer slowdown." The real decline will come from burned-out, disillusioned players who are tired of watching their favorite builds get dismantled.

And all this while other powersets, like Fire Blast, which is still struggling to keep pace in today’s meta, remain untouched? Why focus on gutting a popular and already balanced set like Plant Control instead of elevating underperformers?

 

 

This approach to game development is not just questionable, it is actively un-fun. You’re stripping personality and power away from something that was working, while leaving outdated or neglected sets in the dust. Balance isn’t about nerfing fun into the ground, it’s about lifting everything up to create diverse, enjoyable choices.

Homecoming Devs:

We, the players who love Plant Control, are asking, no, demanding, that you roll back these changes.
Restore Carrion Creepers to its former glory.
Unchain Seeds of Confusion.
Reconsider Spirit Tree's role, and don’t saddle the set with conflicting mechanics.

Do better.
Be better.
And please, for the love of nature, stop ruining what makes Plant Control so damn special.

 

Regards,

A player that will find an alternative game if the HC Devs continue this nerfing crusade in a super hero/villain game. We're supers. We're supposed to be powerful.

 

[Psyonico]

Can I have your stuff?

[Nayeh]

7 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

Can I have your stuff?

Sure, DM me your in-game name.

[Oklahoman]

I hear you, but it sounds like the sort of thing you need to try on the open beta server then share in the appropriate focused feedback threads. If you've tried it, then you are providing informed feedback in the appropriate place and maybe have a better chance of being heard.

 

In general, I wish our updates included more from the Suggestions & Feedback forum. Not all of that is gold (I mean, I've been known to post there) but there are some solid suggestions in there. I understand that some in the community have been asking for the tank adjustments, so I guess that's a good thing - I'm not sure if those suggestions came from that forum or just out the Closed Beta community.

 

And, no @Psyonico you can't have my stuff.

[GM Crumpet]

Moved to focused feedback

[TygerDarkstorm]

Have you actually played this on the beta? The changes really aren't that bad, especially after they made changes based on our feedback. Plant is a tad more versatile and has a lot more build options now instead of relying on 2 crutch powers.

[Captain Fabulous]

Have you played any of the changes? Even bothered to read the EXTENSIVE dev notes? If you did you'd ask a mod to delete this ill-informed screed of nonsense.

Edited Wednesday at 08:55 PM by Captain Fabulous

[Nayeh]

Did you try actually reading the message? 

 

I said the developers need to straight up roll back all of these appalling changes. Do some deep reflection on their power decision making.

 

Thank you for your attention.

[baster]

I concur, no one likes big changes to their favorite toon, power set unless they are pure buffs. Especially in a superhero game, losing power or a perception of losing power will be frown upon and it might even result in a minor revolution!!!

Edited Wednesday at 11:51 PM by baster

[macskull]

12 minutes ago, baster said:

I guarantee you this nerfs are rooted in pvp most likely.

I been playing games for 30 years and I seen this far to many times.

 

Devs are playing the game as well and if they are not having fun in pvp and think they are getting murdered to much by one thing or another they find a way to justify destroying pve to balance the fun for their pvp enjoyment.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right. In any case nerfing toons, builds, powers to the point people stop playing it all togheder which offen happens in such cases isn't the answer.

If you think the Plant Control changes (or any other changes in the entire history of this game save one) are because of PvP, well... lol.

[Videra]

17 minutes ago, baster said:

I guarantee you this nerfs are rooted in pvp most likely.

I been playing games for 30 years and I seen this far to many times.

 

Devs are playing the game as well and if they are not having fun in pvp and think they are getting murdered to much by one thing or another they find a way to justify destroying pve to balance the fun for their pvp enjoyment.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right. In any case nerfing toons, builds, powers to the point people stop playing it all togheder which offen happens in such cases isn't the answer.

 

My guy, there are like eight PVPers. On what planet do you believe people were playing Plant 'Trollers and getting whined about in that setting?

[macskull]

1 minute ago, Videra said:

My guy, there are like eight PVPers. On what planet do you believe people were playing Plant 'Trollers and getting whined about in that setting?

The funny thing is Plant Control wasn't even a good PvP set pre-Issue 13 when Controllers and Dominators were significantly stronger in PvP than they are now.

[MTeague]

I respect your right to your obviously strongly held opinion. 

I disagree that this is operatic tragedy. 

Plant was wildly overtuned, and everyone knows it. 

After the first few pages of reflexive panic, most of what I've seen on the focused feedback thread was "OK, we can make this work".

[Videra]

5 minutes ago, MTeague said:

I respect your right to your obviously strongly held opinion. 

I disagree that this is operatic tragedy. 

Plant was wildly overtuned, and everyone knows it. 

After the first few pages of reflexive panic, most of what I've seen on the focused feedback thread was "OK, we can make this work".

 

It's entirely, on its face, stupid to nerf any portion of a CC set when CC has no place in Endgame content, the only place where 'balance' should actively be a dev concern.

[MTeague]

Just now, Videra said:

It's entirely, on its face, stupid to nerf any portion of a CC set when CC has no place in Endgame content, the only place where 'balance' should actively be a dev concern.

CC "has no place" in endgame content?

.... I'll be curious to see how you like content involving Blackwing Industries.

[Videra]

16 minutes ago, MTeague said:

CC "has no place" in endgame content?

.... I'll be curious to see how you like content involving Blackwing Industries.

 

 

The answer will, of course, when it is an enemy group in actual 4* content be . . .
 

Five Corruptors, a meat brick (your flavour of choice), and two blasters. That's what endgame looks like, in CoH. You physically cannot use most CC in a  reasonable fashion on 4* enemies.

Edited Wednesday at 10:07 PM by Videra

[Neiska]

I leveled 3 Plant to max level with +3 Incarnates, and personally I wasn't impressed. Sure it was neat and fun, but IMO other things were wildly over tuned. Soloing with it was safe, but also very slow, painfully slow. I could have a brute use an aoe on auto and clear the same content faster, and soloing +4 things was especially a slog. Sure I could lock stuff down, but it took so long to kill things. Especially since Plant was one of the few Controller sets that stood out on teams, especially fast moving ones. Now? Not so much. Honestly it feels as if any powerset or power is wildly popular, it's what gets attention (good or bad.) 

 

I am genuinely curious as to what difficulty and what activity they use to base changes on. It certainly isn't +0, nor is it +4. While no controller expert (usually play Tankers, MMs, and SoA's), this most definitely felt like a "NO FUN ALLOWED" change.

[Mezmera]

7 hours ago, Videra said:

Five Corruptors, a meat brick (your flavour of choice), and two blasters. That's what endgame looks like, in CoH. You physically cannot use most CC in a  reasonable fashion on 4* enemies.

 

They literally nerfed confuses on 4* content because the devs saw how well a Plant dommie performed in one.   Heck to get people their dummies I used to lead lots of runs on my Mind dom with the more sensibly OP Mass Confusion.  They punished any control with a confuse all because of one outlier power.  

 

Between how fast Seeds of Confusion recharged and how Creepers were with proccing a Plant dom could run interference and there was so little the NPCs could do to counteract.  The best aoe hard control you can get that just so happens to have a 15s recharge is a little bit OP.  Seeds needs to be fixed so they don't have the excuse to keep making content hard on control. 

Edited Thursday at 05:49 AM by Mezmera

[Cheli]

9 hours ago, Mezmera said:

 

They literally nerfed confuses on 4* content because the devs saw how well a Plant dommie performed in one.   Heck to get people their dummies I used to lead lots of runs on my Mind dom with the more sensibly OP Mass Confusion.  They punished any control with a confuse all because of one outlier power.  

 

Between how fast Seeds of Confusion recharged and how Creepers were with proccing a Plant dom could run interference and there was so little the NPCs could do to counteract.  The best aoe hard control you can get that just so happens to have a 15s recharge is a little bit OP.  Seeds needs to be fixed so they don't have the excuse to keep making content hard on control. 

Oh no, a strategy that isn't 'roll over it with proc-bombed nukes' was actually sometimes useful in 4* content!! Call the balance police. 

 

Changing plant to be as useless as the rest of the sets in high-end content isn't going to suddenly change the meta, is just means the one slot that might be allotted to a confuse chump will go to another proc-bomber instead. If your idea of balance is just sour grapes that one set might actually be useful and you want them all the be useless, I guess that makes sense.

 

Your actual issue seems to be a lot more with the confuse mechanic itself, and tbf the devs seem to agree, but aren't willing to just gut confuse as a mechanic (if that'd even be feasible given spaghetticode). Easier to gut the set that can leverage it I guess.

[Seed22]

19 hours ago, Videra said:

Five Corruptors, a meat brick (your flavour of choice), and two blasters. That's what endgame looks like, in CoH. You physically cannot use most CC in a  reasonable fashion on 4* enemies.

Exactly this. In early CoV days it was 7 corrs and a brute. Honestly the meta didnt change almost at all despite these balance attempts because they dont actually target a root cause, just make up some fear mongering bullshit, go after a not even remotely OP set, get the easily fooled community to parrot stupid shit ad infinitum, then wash rinse repeat until the whole game is shit.

 

This happened with champions and I called it would happen here. We'll see if I end up being right but lemme tell you all left here, you won't like what that looks like. You can see it now on Champs forums(which will also be not recieving any more updates as they pivot to only discord updates lmao).

 

I mean, this really sucks though. Thought CoH would be in my rotation of games for as long as I'm alive and now I barely log in and really only test CB things thanks to changes like these. 

 

Yeah disgruntled players make posts, but think about how many more leave unannounced and how word of mouth affects the chances of a larger playerbase. 

 

Edited Thursday at 05:33 PM by Seed22

[skoryy]

"Game doomed because you're not doing what I personally want"

 

Again, I've heard this since the dawn of game forums, when my hair was brown and there was a lot more of it.

[arcane]

Assuming the OP hasn’t been keeping up with the changes. When accounting for the Creepers nerf, the Seeds buff/nerf (did get buffed in some ways), the Tree buff, the Spore buff, the Vines buff, and the Fly Trap buff, it’s obvious the set is getting a net buff.

[Seed22]

28 minutes ago, skoryy said:

"Game doomed because you're not doing what I personally want"

 

Again, I've heard this since the dawn of game forums, when my hair was brown and there was a lot more of it.

And I've heard the cheerleaders misread and sycophantically defend this game for years because its the only one they play.

 

 

Whoopdie doo. Its a never ending roundabout at this point. 

 

Even before the first real patches rolled in I felt the relaunch of CoH was a big mistake and the shutdown was the best thing to happen to CoH, and I loved what P. Studios was doing at the time AND what HC was doing.

 

I buried the gut feeling but looking now I see my fears were well founded and now I make another prediction:

 

This game will be noticeably worse than Champions Online by the end of whatever cycle it reaches. It wont shut down and there won't be any DOOOOM to come to it, but it...well the best way to describe it is the Pixies when they took over Fairy World in Fairly odd parents as a kid; a grey, drab sterilized game

Edited Thursday at 07:33 PM by Seed22

[arcane]

26 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

And I've heard the cheerleaders misread and sycophantically defend this game for years because its the only one they play.

 

 

Whoopdie doo. Its a never ending roundabout at this point. 

 

Even before the first real patches rolled in I felt the relaunch of CoH was a big mistake and the shutdown was the best thing to happen to CoH, and I loved what P. Studios was doing at the time AND what HC was doing.

 

I buried the gut feeling but looking now I see my fears were well founded and now I make another prediction:

 

This game will be noticeably worse than Champions Online by the end of whatever cycle it reaches. It wont shut down and there won't be any DOOOOM to come to it, but it...well the best way to describe it is the Pixies when they took over Fairy World in Fairly odd parents as a kid; a grey, drab sterilized game

Homecoming not existing would be a pretty big L for many of us. I get that you haven’t liked CoH in years but try to read the room. Some of us actually care about it still.

 

Call me confused about what you hope to accomplish by actively wishing for the game to fail.

Edited Thursday at 07:47 PM by arcane

[macskull]

57 minutes ago, arcane said:

it’s obvious the set is getting a net buff.

That’s not at all obvious. Clear speeds are slower than they used to be. The set is getting rebalanced to no longer be reliant on two powers to achieve its maximum performance, that much is true, but the result is the set’s maximum performance is lower. It’s an unfortunate set of changes that removes options for players.