Rage Crash Questions

[Stormmage]

I am struggling with a SS brute who I want to really enjoy due to the updated rage crash.  The -def is fairly tough, but the - damage is just punishing.  I go on time out for 10s from doing my job about every 90-100s (my recharge so far).  This leads me to several questions:

 

1.  Does anyone have the comprehensive penalties for rage crash at hand? 

2.  Will double stacking rage overcome the damage penalty or is it like the def penalty, it just crashes you?

3.  It says in Pine's planner that "Unrelenting" will negate the rage crash, but that has a base recharge of 600s, so that is not going to be much help. 

• Do you have to active the power to negate the rage penalty?
  
• Does just having Unrelenting negate the crash?
  
• Does it actually negate the rage crash or just back fill by adding a bit of damage and end back?
  

 

Do you have any suggestions for managing the Rage crash?

Thanks,

Stormmage

 

[HelenCarnate]

The damage penalty has always been there. The defense hit is more recent and the way it is now never made it into the live game. How to get around the defense issue is to not play a defensive based set unless you cary around lucks to offset the crash or use rage sparingly and make sure everything is dead before it crashes.

[itaalh]

The damage penalty has always been there. The defense hit is more recent and the way it is now never made it into the live game. How to get around the defense issue is to not play a defensive based set unless you cary around lucks to offset the crash or use rage sparingly and make sure everything is dead before it crashes.

I’d add that using rage on need instead of double stacking it like before is also a solution

[Hyperstrike]

I am struggling with a SS brute who I want to really enjoy due to the updated rage crash.  The -def is fairly tough, but the - damage is just punishing.  I go on time out for 10s from doing my job about every 90-100s (my recharge so far).  This leads me to several questions:

 

1.  Does anyone have the comprehensive penalties for rage crash at hand? 

2.  Will double stacking rage overcome the damage penalty or is it like the def penalty, it just crashes you?

3.  It says in Pine's planner that "Unrelenting" will negate the rage crash, but that has a base recharge of 600s, so that is not going to be much help. 

• Do you have to active the power to negate the rage penalty?
  
• Does just having Unrelenting negate the crash?
  
• Does it actually negate the rage crash or just back fill by adding a bit of damage and end back?
  

Do you have any suggestions for managing the Rage crash?

Thanks,

Stormmage

 

 

What I do during a Rage crash.

 

TAUNT.

 

If you have Kick acting as a mule for the Force Feedback proc, use it for a possible small burst of +Rech.

Also, Unrelenting, from the Presence pool will mitigate part of the -Dmg portion of the Rage crash.

 

 

If you're worried about the -Def?

 

BUILD TOUGHER.

 

 

Sorry if that comes across as crass or rude.  But that's the solution.

 

 

You CAN mitigate the effects.

 

 

 

 

And double stacking doesn't make the problem go away.

 

And just using rage at-need isn't the answer either.  As Rage is what takes the set that does crap damage that's the most resisted in the game to a set that, even heavily resisted, is NOTHING to sneeze at.

 

Double-stacked Rage puts you very near +Damage cap.

 

 

[HelenCarnate]

The damage cap is +675%. Double rage is 160% plus slotting for around 100% for +260%. Not even half of the cap.

 

At high levels you can mitigate a little by dipping into soul mastery. When rage crashes hit the toggle to lower to hit. 4 slots gets you -15% to hit combined with the aoe to drop another roughly 5%. That offsets the defense crash for the most part.

[Hyperstrike]

The damage cap is +675%. Double rage is 160% plus slotting for around 100% for +260%. Not even half of the cap.

 

At high levels you can mitigate a little by dipping into soul mastery. When rage crashes hit the toggle to lower to hit. 4 slots gets you -15% to hit combined with the aoe to drop another roughly 5%. That offsets the defense crash for the most part.

 

Au contraire mon frer!

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits#Damage

 

Tanker Damage cap at 21+ is 400%

You're 100% unslotted.

Plus enhancement.

Plus Rage.

Plus Rage again.

[HelenCarnate]

The damage cap is +675%. Double rage is 160% plus slotting for around 100% for +260%. Not even half of the cap.

 

At high levels you can mitigate a little by dipping into soul mastery. When rage crashes hit the toggle to lower to hit. 4 slots gets you -15% to hit combined with the aoe to drop another roughly 5%. That offsets the defense crash for the most part.

 

Au contraire mon frer!

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits#Damage

 

Tanker Damage cap at 21+ is 400%

You're 100% unslotted.

Plus enhancement.

Plus Rage.

Plus Rage again.

 

Direct from the page you linked.  Consider for a moment that you are posting on the BRUTE page.

 

Maximum

Maximum total Damage for players depends on Archetype and (usually) level.

 

Archetype Maximum Damage

Brute 775%

Blaster, Corruptor,

Scrapper, Stalker 210% at level 1

500% at level 21+

 

all others 200% at level 1

400% at level 21+

 

 

[Hyperstrike]

 

Translation for a brain-dead Hyperstrike.

DUH!  BROOT!

 

 

GAH!  Never mind.  Was dropped on my head extensively as a child.

 

Probably why I tank so well now.

Blows to the head don't even hurt anymore...

[itaalh]

and that's why perma double-rage is less necessary on a BROOT than on your tanker !

[MajikMayhem81]

The damage penalty has always been there. The defense hit is more recent and the way it is now never made it into the live game. How to get around the defense issue is to not play a defensive based set unless you cary around lucks to offset the crash or use rage sparingly and make sure everything is dead before it crashes.

That's sad and incredibly counterintuitive in a game that encourages build diversity (in reference to the defense penalty.  I understand that some powerset combos synergize less with each other, but a powerset that punishes you for using another?  That being said I'll probably remake my old brute from live as ss/wp which is no slouch anyway.  He was previously ss/invul, and I never leveled a /wp so looking forward to it.

[Hyperstrike]

The thing is, the Defense crash was always supposed to be there.

And the Double-Rage avoidance of the Defense crash was a BUG.

[MajikMayhem81]

The thing is, the Defense crash was always supposed to be there.

And the Double-Rage avoidance of the Defense crash was a BUG.

I suppose it's been so long I've forgotten,  but I don't remember there being a defense crash on live.  I always assumed double stacking rage was to avoid the damage penalty.  If there has always been a defense crash then I suppose it doesnt matter, since I didnt double stack it on live.

[zuel]

The -Def aspect of the Rage crash was not on Live. It's here now because of a bug fix the Homecoming devs did that affected many powers. That bug fix cannot be rolled back, although the power can still be tweaked individually.

 

And yes, I find it to be super punishing on Tanks and Brutes. Having a triple whammy that drains a quarter of your end (sometimes dropping toggles), entirely nullifies your damage and makes you very squishy (if you're a Def set) for 10 seconds is crippling whether you're tanking or bruting. It's caused my favourite Tank and Brute innumerable defeats, and forced me to shelve them for now (I otherwise love SS).

 

There's a lengthy thread in the Suggestions forum about the Rage crash with many voices asking for the -Def to be removed, or at least significantly toned down https://forums.homecomingservers.com/index.php/topic,3304.0.html. Get involved if you want to let the devs know your thoughts.

 

 

[Stormmage]

Has anyone tested/do you know how Unrelenting interacts with the rage crash? 

• do you have to activate it to get the relief?  Given the long recharge that is not happening much.
  
• Does it negate the damage debuff, or just add a little damage back?
  
• How does Unrelenting effect the defense crash?
  

Thanks for any info you have.

[HelenCarnate]

I dont think it actually does anything to affect the rage crash. Even if it did I would rather not have to take 3 extra powers to make Rage work like it did when the game was live.

[Corruption]

Do people really stack rage? It sounds nice in theory, but the extra downtime is infuriating. I can pop reds to my hearts content while solo and it's even needed less while on a team.

 

I'll have to test it using hero stats, but I didn't even use Rage at all while farming on live.

 

[justicebeliever]

There is already a very nice and long thread on this.  The Dev's have even posted there as well.  I'd recommend keeping the conversation in one place if we can

 

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/index.php/topic,3304.0.html

[Stormmage]

If no one knows I will test on Justin once the test server is back up and report back.  Taking 3 powers to moderate the rage crash is a bit harsh as well.

[Hopeling]

I suppose it's been so long I've forgotten,  but I don't remember there being a defense crash on live.  I always assumed double stacking rage was to avoid the damage penalty.  If there has always been a defense crash then I suppose it doesnt matter, since I didnt double stack it on live.

There's "double-stacking" as in having 2 stacks of Rage up all the time, which was only really a thing for very high-end builds, and then there's "double-stacking" as in getting its recharge down to about 115 seconds so that you already have a new Rage buff up shortly before the old one expires. That second option was much easier, requiring only a tiny bit of global recharge bonuses. If you used IOs at all, you were probably doing it by accident.

 

You can see the "Delayed -DEF" on Rage's power entry here, which predates Homecoming. I don't think there was ever a way to avoid the -damage; I distinctly remember giving up on SS because I hated dealing with the damage crash every 120 seconds, even though my SS/WP definitely had enough recharge for the stacking trick.

 

There is already a very nice and long thread on this.  The Dev's have even posted there as well.  I'd recommend keeping the conversation in one place if we can

 

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/index.php/topic,3304.0.html

Specifically, the first red response is here, in case you don't want to read all 22 pages. I'm not sure yet if there are more dev posts.

[HelenCarnate]

Do people really stack rage? It sounds nice in theory, but the extra downtime is infuriating. I can pop reds to my hearts content while solo and it's even needed less while on a team.

 

I'll have to test it using hero stats, but I didn't even use Rage at all while farming on live.

 

Even though I could have my SS run at perma double rage (after the first 60 seconds anyway) I normally don't bother.  Teams have enough buffs that stuff dies fast enough anyway and when farming I have plenty of reds pouring in to keep me near the damage cap already.  The only time I do is if I have 3 or more SG buddies door sitting while I PL them and that slows down the inspiration drops quite a bit. 

[Hedgefund]

Once upon a time, when I had a SS/Fire farmer, I used the rage crash for

 

* Judgement nuke.  This isn't affected by the -dmg.  Unfortunately the timing isn't always going to line up of nuke availability with the crash.

* Insp cleanup.  Eventually even with an insp combine macro your insp inventory will get full of one-offs and maybe doubles and you get to a point where all you can do is delete/use insps.  I also use this as a time to e-mail myself phenomenal lucks and robusts.

* Use your end management tool, if applicable (in FA's case: Consume).  Heal, even if just for convenience.

* Taunt or something taunt like.  Even with -dmg, I tend to throw out a Ball Lightening to grab another spawn's attention.

* Use Sands of Mu temp (or Blackwand or Nem Staff). 

* Respond to tells you've put off.  Maybe say something witty in your favorite channel