Judgement going grey when another player is using it

[DrRocket]

This is just a quality of life suggestion...

 

Often among 50s when adventuring the opportunity of using the earned ability of Judgement will arise, so you activate yours not knowing that another player fractions of a second before you activated theirs, and as a result theirs goes off and yours is a dud but your ability is scored as used. Now don't give me the bs that players should be coordinating in advance the use of this ability.

 

What I see as a remedy, is the moment a player activates their judgement, that all other players judgment is greyed  out, goes inactive, until the judgement attack itself is executed and then it becomes available for use at a later time and not be placed in cooldown as described above.

 

Regards

 

[Psyonico]

"Give players a way to stop other players from using an ability" was not on my HC bingo card.

[RikOz]

Since I never do group content, I didn't even know this was a behavior of Judgements. Two players Judge at roughly the same time, and the second one has no effect?

[El D]

24 minutes ago, RikOz said:

Since I never do group content, I didn't even know this was a behavior of Judgements. Two players Judge at roughly the same time, and the second one has no effect?

 

OP's point is more that the second Judgement doesn't accomplish anything if the mob it would have hit is already dead. Which does kinda suck, but isn't remotely the kind of thing that calls for instituting a mechanic that allows players to deliberately lock others out of using their own powers, even on the basis of 'it only lasts a few seconds.'

 

If another player is using judgement too often or in a fashion that impedes the enjoyment of the game, everyone can already control how often the offending player uses judgement by exercising some of their own and choosing not team up with that person. Alternately, run content where mobs can survive more than one use of judgement. If you've got access to incarnate powers, chances are you can run that tier of endgame content.

Edited Sunday at 10:38 PM by El D

[RikOz]

1 minute ago, El D said:

 

OP's point is more that the second Judgement doesn't accomplish anything if the mob it would have hit is already dead.

Ah, so similar to my annoyance at constantly wasting attacks because my NPC "helper" keeps abandoning the guy he's fighting to run over and finish off my mob before my attack animation completes.

[Rudra]

Whether you are using a Judgement power, a nuke, or a regular power and you are on a team, there is a chance that your attack is not going to find its target before the target is defeated by someone else. Welcome to being on a team. (Edit: Hells, your own pets can render your attack void while you are playing solo.)

 

Edited Sunday at 11:03 PM by Rudra

[golstat2003]

5 hours ago, DrRocket said:

This is just a quality of life suggestion...

 

Often among 50s when adventuring the opportunity of using the earned ability of Judgement will arise, so you activate yours not knowing that another player fractions of a second before you activated theirs, and as a result theirs goes off and yours is a dud but your ability is scored as used. Now don't give me the bs that players should be coordinating in advance the use of this ability.

 

What I see as a remedy, is the moment a player activates their judgement, that all other players judgment is greyed  out, goes inactive, until the judgement attack itself is executed and then it becomes available for use at a later time and not be placed in cooldown as described above.

 

Regards

 

 

No. This could easily be used as a griefing tool if implemented, as other folks have point out.

[Razor Cure]

Can we stop saying 'Judgements,' like it was EVERY Judgment power? It only happens with Ion Judgement (which, to be fair, is easily the best at hitting huge amounts of baddies). Sure, other ones like Pyronic have exactly the same problem as other nukes (or aoes), in that someone else may have hit it just before you, but all those powers still WORK. 

Even nuking a mob that was just nuked, while it wont do as much damage, it will still certainly clean up any minions or Lts left alive, and may even finish of a boss, so it inst doing literally no damage at all..which happens with Ion Judgement.

This sounds like a great idea to me, and at they very least, your Ion could be USED (yes, used, not fired of with no effect at all) and at least damage something, instead of just..zilch.

 

I cant see the griefing angle at all. Oh no, I cant use my Ion cause someone else did. Isn't that a good thing..to stop you wasting it entirely? Worst case you wait 5 secs and use it next mob..knowing it will do full damage. How about make it a Null the Gull thing? If you want to, go ahead and keep using your Ion with no effect at all. I'd happily take a power lock (or not even a lock out, just make the icon change color as a warning) out and fire it off when its gonna work.

Edited yesterday at 11:19 AM by Razor Cure

[golstat2003]

2 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

Can we stop saying 'Judgements,' like it was EVERY Judgment power? It only happens with Ion Judgement (which, to be fair, is easily the best at hitting huge amounts of baddies). Sure, other ones like Pyronic have exactly the same problem as other nukes (or aoes), in that someone else may have hit it just before you, but all those powers still WORK. 

Even nuking a mob that was just nuked, while it wont do as much damage, it will still certainly clean up any minions or Lts left alive, and may even finish of a boss, so it inst doing literally no damage at all..which happens with Ion Judgement.

This sounds like a great idea to me, and at they very least, your Ion could be USED (yes, used, not fired of with no effect at all) and at least damage something, instead of just..zilch.

 

I cant see the griefing angle at all. Oh no, I cant use my Ion cause someone else did. Isn't that a good thing..to stop you wasting it entirely? Worst case you wait 5 secs and use it next mob..knowing it will do full damage. How about make it a Null the Gull thing? If you want to, go ahead and keep using your Ion with no effect at all. I'd happily take a power lock (or not even a lock out, just make the icon change color as a warning) out and fire it off when its gonna work.

 

Making it something that affects only your Judgement via a NULL the Gull option, is a great suggestion modification. The original suggestion was a non starter.

[skoryy]

I'm not even sure where to begin on the logistics of 'using X power locks out another player's X power' and that's not even getting into needing the same lockout so Judgement doesn't waste my blaster's BU - Aim - Nuke combo.

[Rudra]

6 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

Can we stop saying 'Judgements,' like it was EVERY Judgment power? It only happens with Ion Judgement (which, to be fair, is easily the best at hitting huge amounts of baddies). Sure, other ones like Pyronic have exactly the same problem as other nukes (or aoes), in that someone else may have hit it just before you, but all those powers still WORK. 

Even nuking a mob that was just nuked, while it wont do as much damage, it will still certainly clean up any minions or Lts left alive, and may even finish of a boss, so it inst doing literally no damage at all..which happens with Ion Judgement.

This sounds like a great idea to me, and at they very least, your Ion could be USED (yes, used, not fired of with no effect at all) and at least damage something, instead of just..zilch.

 

I cant see the griefing angle at all. Oh no, I cant use my Ion cause someone else did. Isn't that a good thing..to stop you wasting it entirely? Worst case you wait 5 secs and use it next mob..knowing it will do full damage. How about make it a Null the Gull thing? If you want to, go ahead and keep using your Ion with no effect at all. I'd happily take a power lock (or not even a lock out, just make the icon change color as a warning) out and fire it off when its gonna work.

Or... and this is a surprising one to not see in this post... you go to hit your Judgement, but it is greyed out because someone else hit theirs a fraction of a second sooner. (Which requires the game to track everyone's power usage and timing and then force another player to not be able to use their power while not being stunned or held, and manage to do so across different ISPs with different ping rates/lag spikes, especially on Excelsior with its often under heavy player load in sufficient time to lock out the other player.) Then you go to use it against the next mob, only you are too slow for that one too and your Judgement goes on lockdown again. And hey, you're on a full team of 8, and the other 7 players keep using their Judgements before you, locking you out. What fun that Judgement has become. And even if mobs survive one player's Judgement and you go to finish off the rest? Someone else beats you to it, so hey, your Judgement is locked out again.

 

Make it something that has to be turned on at Null the Gull though? And I will care a lot less. You can choose to not be able to use your Judgement because others with less lag are able to get theirs off before you and I won't care.

 

Here is a question though: What about when the players that get their Judgements off faster than you also wipe out the spawns just using regular heavily enhanced nukes? Are you going to want nuke usage to lock out your powers too?

 

Edit: Here is another question. Considering that the timing differences between players using Judgements is often only a fraction of a second, how loudly will you scream "BUG!!!!" when the time it takes the game to process one player's use of his/her/their Judgement before you used yours takes longer than that time difference and so the game isn't able to lock out your Judgement from being used because someone else used theirs first?

 

Edited yesterday at 06:08 PM by Rudra
Edited again to change "nukes" to "Judgements".

[Ghost]

Can’t this request be made about several powers?

 

”I tried to Rez them, but they texted first!”

”I tried to attack, but they suddenly got worm holed/TPd somewhere else!”

”I tried to heal them, but someone else healed them first!”

I could go on and on, but don’t feel like it.

 

In other words, you block one power because it inconveniences you and the Devs will end up having to block just about everything.

 

[DrRocket]

Somehow, somewhere along the line, we just missed the bubble

 

All I was asking for was for a way if someone beat me to the draw in calling in for a judgement, that mine is not just a dud and now it is in a recharge timer. It has nothing to do if the mob was killed before I triggered, in fact it was very alive when I triggered the judgement.

 

That is why I suggested the temp grey out so since I was beaten to the draw, that my judgement is not wasted and in a recharge timer, not sure something this simple can result with such really out there responses, such as trying to control another player? where did this come from?

 

Regards

[El D]

The reaction arose from that being actual mechanical impact of your suggestion. Re-framing it as 'no, the lock out was going apply to me' doesn't negate the base functionality being 'if one player uses a specific power, activating that same power is then denied to every other player they're teamed with.'

 

Look at it this way. This judgement block is fully implemented and you're on a full team with seven other players. Upon arriving at a mob, one of those other players activates their judgement before you can use yours. The mob dies and you don't get to use your judgement. The team moves to the next mob, another player uses their judgement before you can hit the button, That mob dies and you still haven't used your judgement. The team moves to a third mob... See where I'm going with this? And that's just on a regular-sized team, that's not even getting into the issue of 'how does this work on full leagues?'

 

If you're that concerned about wasting an activation of judgement, just wait a second or two when arriving at a mob. That's both enough time for a mob to actually clump around a tank and enough time that if someone else is going to queue up judgement, you'll see it activate.

[Rudra]

58 minutes ago, DrRocket said:

All I was asking for was for a way if someone beat me to the draw in calling in for a judgement, that mine is not just a dud and now it is in a recharge timer. It has nothing to do if the mob was killed before I triggered, in fact it was very alive when I triggered the judgement.

 

That is why I suggested the temp grey out so since I was beaten to the draw, that my judgement is not wasted and in a recharge timer, not sure something this simple can result with such really out there responses, such as trying to control another player? where did this come from?

If the mob was still alive when you hit your Judgement, then please explain how your Judgement was a dud. Did your Judgement somehow fail to affect the still alive mob? If so, that is a bug and should be reported.

 

Edit: If your complaint is that the target was alive at the time you hit your Judgement but defeated before your Judgement went off, which is what I thought you were talking about, that happens with every power in the game in some fashion. Like @Ghost said, this happens to healers that go to heal teammates but either someone else already did in the time it took that player to click his/her/their heal or the other player pops a green inspiration or a self-heal. This happens to rezzers when they go to rez an ally but either someone else's rez went off before theirs or the defeated player used a self-rez or the defeated player popped a rez inspiration or the defeated player goes to the hospital. This happens to players that pop their nukes only to see someone else already popped their nuke or Judgement and cleared the spawn. This happens to players using regular attacks against a target but someone else finished off the target in the time it took that player to click his/her/their attack or their attack finished animating. This happens all the time across all ability types when on a team. It even happens to solo players that have pets on the regular as that player clicks an attack but one or more of that player's pets defeats the target first. And your proposal runs up against processing limitations. The fact that the game has to process who did what to who when and then figure out who has the relevant power to lock out, and even when the game does so, timing of player clicks can be within the game's processing time. Before you even get to connection considerations and lag. (Edit again: And then there is the question of how it will affect leagues or teams that disperse throughout a map rather than stay together. If I'm duo'ing with a friend and we go separate directions on the map, should my Judgement be locked out because she popped hers first in a completely different room? We're still on the same team after all and she used her Judgement first.)

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Rudra
Edited again to add "or a self-heal"

[Forager]

 

 

31 minutes ago, DrRocket said:

not sure something this simple can result with such really out there responses, such as trying to control another player? where did this come from?

 

I got you.

 

It's the part where you using a power means another player can't use theirs. That is control. You believe that it's a control "for their own good" but it's a control nonetheless. 

 

Your dissenters are arguing for their right to waste the power activation.

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Forager

[golstat2003]

For the record again I think most folks would be fine if this was a Null the Gull option that you could turn on only for your judgement.

[megaericzero]

As long as it's an optional feature, doesn't matter to me. I just wanted to point out:

 

On 7/20/2025 at 2:37 PM, DrRocket said:

Now don't give me the bs that players should be coordinating in advance the use of this ability.

Imagine playing an MMO and talking to people you elected to group with. 👀

[Razor Cure]

17 hours ago, Rudra said:

Or... and this is a surprising one to not see in this post... you go to hit your Judgement, but it is greyed out because someone else hit theirs a fraction of a second sooner. (Which requires the game to track everyone's power usage and timing and then force another player to not be able to use their power while not being stunned or held, and manage to do so across different ISPs with different ping rates/lag spikes, especially on Excelsior with its often under heavy player load in sufficient time to lock out the other player.) Then you go to use it against the next mob, only you are too slow for that one too and your Judgement goes on lockdown again. And hey, you're on a full team of 8, and the other 7 players keep using their Judgements before you, locking you out. What fun that Judgement has become. And even if mobs survive one player's Judgement and you go to finish off the rest? Someone else beats you to it, so hey, your Judgement is locked out again.

 

Make it something that has to be turned on at Null the Gull though? And I will care a lot less. You can choose to not be able to use your Judgement because others with less lag are able to get theirs off before you and I won't care.

 

Here is a question though: What about when the players that get their Judgements off faster than you also wipe out the spawns just using regular heavily enhanced nukes? Are you going to want nuke usage to lock out your powers too?

 

Edit: Here is another question. Considering that the timing differences between players using Judgements is often only a fraction of a second, how loudly will you scream "BUG!!!!" when the time it takes the game to process one player's use of his/her/their Judgement before you used yours takes longer than that time difference and so the game isn't able to lock out your Judgement from being used because someone else used theirs first?

 

Please actually read what I said. I literally mention normal nukes, and how they can still finish off some mobs AFTER another nuke basically wiped them. And the same with every other Judgement but Ion. Using Ion just after someone else results in zero happening..nothing.

You keep harping on about people with 'less lag,' since clearly, the only reason someone can ever use Ion before me, is because they are lagging less. As well as harping about being locked out of Ion..which sounds way more fun than using it, having no gain AND it gets placed on that long recharged. That already happens. If your own words, what fun it has become!

Or maybe read the rest, where I said it could maybe be JUST greyed, but not locked. Then people like you could STILL press that button, get your sweet endorphin rush, for no gain and be all happy. While others would just hold off on pressing it, and get use from the power.

 

Also..you realize the game already tracks everyone's power usage to some degree? That's why we have Combat Stats and damage logs. Given how old the game is, and Internet Speed these days, I doubt tracking Ion to an extra degree would be a big problem.

[tidge]

What I'm reading is that players are actively supporting a mechanism being added to the game that could be leveraged to have missions and critters be able to also inactivate Incarnate powers... because if tokens exist from something like Null the Gull, there would presumably be a way for critters or missions to apply the token (temporarily) without player consent.

[Rudra]

6 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

Please actually read what I said. I literally mention normal nukes, and how they can still finish off some mobs AFTER another nuke basically wiped them. And the same with every other Judgement but Ion. Using Ion just after someone else results in zero happening..nothing.

You keep harping on about people with 'less lag,' since clearly, the only reason someone can ever use Ion before me, is because they are lagging less. As well as harping about being locked out of Ion..which sounds way more fun than using it, having no gain AND it gets placed on that long recharged. That already happens. If your own words, what fun it has become!

Or maybe read the rest, where I said it could maybe be JUST greyed, but not locked. Then people like you could STILL press that button, get your sweet endorphin rush, for no gain and be all happy. While others would just hold off on pressing it, and get use from the power.

 

Also..you realize the game already tracks everyone's power usage to some degree? That's why we have Combat Stats and damage logs. Given how old the game is, and Internet Speed these days, I doubt tracking Ion to an extra degree would be a big problem.

Pot? Meet kettle.

 

Also note how my post does not just address lag, but also how timing affects the suggestion. That often players are triggering their Judgements in fractions of a second of each other and the very high likelihood of that resulting in the OP accomplishing nothing.