How do you do it? (End management questions)

[biostem]

The short version of my question is basically: How do you manage end usage on your characters with no additional +recovery or +end powers?

 

The longer version is:  Even with Panacea, Miracle, Numina's, and Performance Shifter, and 1 end redux in most of your powers, trying to fight continuously seems to basically be impossible, particularly if you're also trying to run multiple leadership and/or other such toggles.  Yes, I know you can selectively turn some of those toggles off, and there's always inspirations, set bonuses, and incarnate abilities to help with end management, but before getting all those, it just seems like such a chore to play such characters.

 

To add to this, I almost always want *at least* maneuvers + tactics + APP or PPP shield, (for non-melee ATs).  For melee ATs, I usually want maneuvers + tactics + armor toggles + tough + weave + cj.  I get that all of these aren't strictly necessary, but they seem like a very strong "want", if you're trying to really push up that level of performance.  And, again, while I understand that if the baseline to be used is +0/x1 content, then pretty much anything will suffice, but even then, and if we do assume you're on a full team, that also doesn't mean that any of your teammates will have other +end/+recovery or healing powers to make up the difference.  Is it basically to be assumed that, barring such buffs, the fights simply shouldn't last long enough for you to bottom out your end and drop your toggles, or perhaps to trade HP for a bit of extra time for your end to recover "naturally"?

 

Personally, I just tend to play ATs or powersets that include ways of recovering endurance more quickly, to make up the shortfall... but how do you folks address this issue?

 

Thanks for reading!

[Frozen Burn]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

The short version of my question is basically: How do you manage end usage on your characters with no additional +recovery or +end powers?

 

The longer version is:  Even with Panacea, Miracle, Numina's, and Performance Shifter, and 1 end redux in most of your powers, trying to fight continuously seems to basically be impossible, particularly if you're also trying to run multiple leadership and/or other such toggles.  Yes, I know you can selectively turn some of those toggles off, and there's always inspirations, set bonuses, and incarnate abilities to help with end management, but before getting all those, it just seems like such a chore to play such characters.

 

To add to this, I almost always want *at least* maneuvers + tactics + APP or PPP shield, (for non-melee ATs).  For melee ATs, I usually want maneuvers + tactics + armor toggles + tough + weave + cj.  I get that all of these aren't strictly necessary, but they seem like a very strong "want", if you're trying to really push up that level of performance.  And, again, while I understand that if the baseline to be used is +0/x1 content, then pretty much anything will suffice, but even then, and if we do assume you're on a full team, that also doesn't mean that any of your teammates will have other +end/+recovery or healing powers to make up the difference.  Is it basically to be assumed that, barring such buffs, the fights simply shouldn't last long enough for you to bottom out your end and drop your toggles, or perhaps to trade HP for a bit of extra time for your end to recover "naturally"?

 

Personally, I just tend to play ATs or powersets that include ways of recovering endurance more quickly, to make up the shortfall... but how do you folks address this issue?

 

Thanks for reading!

 

There really is no need for all that on every toon.  I understand the want, but there is no need.   So, if you've maxed out all the possible +end and +recovery options in your build through procs and set bonuses and are still coming up short - then you have to just make the hard choice of want vs. need, and perhaps eliminate some of those extraneous toggles.  It may also free up slotting or provide room for extra attacks that allow you to kill faster, thusly saving overall endurance.

 

Your toons do not have to be capped on def or resists to be effective.  Leadership is a nicety, but is not a necessity.  I rarely take Tactics - while it is a great power, I hit fine without it with whatever global accuracy I get from set bonuses, and that's even in elevated/higher level content.  Maneuvers - great power too, but Combat Jumping gives almost the same amount for far less endurance usage.  But again, capped def or resists are nice, but not needed.  

 

Only for specialized content do you need such specialized builds.  So, of course, I can see doing this type of building for that specialized content (like 4-star TFs/SFs, and such).  But you'll also most likely be teamed with someone who will provide you with some sort of end/recovery.  Even most incarnate content, you will be fine without (and also probably teamed). 

 

Remember those things called inspirations??  Those shore up any shortfalls in your build when you need them.  Play comfortably, kill quickly, and use inspires for the really tough moments.  

 

That's all I can think to suggest.  🙂  

 

 

Edited October 26 by Frozen Burn
Filthy typos!

[Neiska]

There is the obvious Ageless Destiny Incarnate, along with a few Alphas like Cardiac. But I dislike power pairings that are too rough on the END as I view such tools as an unreliable crutch, and they are not always available. Another option is the P2W recovery serum, you can buy 50 charges (i think?) for a bit of moneys and it's like a little mini ageless boost that functions on every AT and is useable at all levels. Other than that - blue inspirations. But I also consider that a band-aid because you can run out.

 

In this case I think "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" comes into play. If you are going to pair something that is very END intensive like a Titan Weapon/Dark Armor, then you have to also plan accordingly. Personally, I can't stand setups that struggle with a blue bar and try to avoid it.

[lemming]

I tend to use Unbreakable Guard (2 slots) often for the end discount, other sets that give end reduction bonuses, and the various procs.

[kittowam]

Melee characters can take Energy Mastery for their APP for additional recovery and/or endurance discount powers. For my non-melee characters with endurance issues, like Storm Summoning, I use recovery serum and the Increase Recovery base empowerment. Beyond that, I look for set bonuses that provide global endurance discounts (Unbreakable Guard, Reactive Defenses, Preventive Medicine, Cupid, etc.) or +Max Endurance, or +Recovery. There's also the accolades that provide +Max Endurance. Those can help too. At 50, Cardiac or Vigor and Ageless usually solves the problem.

[MonteCarla]

There's the START vendor Survivability Amplifier - gives you +20% Recovery. I always have that running, but it does get expensive

Cheaper than that there's the Base Empowerment +Recovery buff, which gave me +17% just now. Stock up on the ingredients for that and refill it every 90 minutes as you zone through bases. (And the End Drain resistance one if you're fighting Clockwork or Freak or whatevs)

And the Recovery Serum from the START vendor gives +100% in bursts. It can't be made perma, and you are quite obviously stopping to shoot up during missions 🙂

 

For slotting, I'll get by with a Panacea in Health and Performance Shifter +End in Stamina, and no extra slots in them. 

I find my end woes tend to disappear in the 30s when I start slotting sets in all my attacks.

Sets like Crushing Impact or Thunderstrike give you around +50% to +70% End reduction for the full set as you level up, in addition to good set bonuses. Its like slotting 2 end reducers in each attack without having to compromise on anything else.

 

Before that - it makes sense that my characters run low on end in the absence of external help. It makes me appreciate that Kineticist who joined my team, or the ease I experience after slotting, or the ease I have when I pick Regen or some powerset with a self-sustain power (like all Blasters now).
 

If I had my way, I'd make blue insps a bit more powerful. Either give you double the current end back (so the big ones are a full bar refill), or a lingering recovery buff and even some drain resistance. 

Edited October 26 by MonteCarla

[twozerofoxtrot]

In the situation you've outlined, which I try to avoid on builds but cannot be helped at times, I lean hard into doing everything I can to positively effect my Endurance economy. 

 

Many sets have a recovery boosting 2 slot bonus, especially PVP sets which at 50 give you a really nice bonus of being able to +5 enhance while still staying active in their slots all the way down to lvl 7. There's also the End Redux Lemming mentioned, now also available in 2pc Cupids Crush.

 

End Redux can also be found in the 5 set bonus for Reactive Defense and Preventative Medicine. These are great sets that are usually worth taking out to 6 slots. You can score global 10% End Redux with these two sets 5 slotted plus a 2 slot Unbreakable Guard or Cupids Crush.

 

Finally, after boosting Recovery and global End Redux, possibly the most powerful but hard to score is raising your Endurance cap. This is for two reasons: like Regen, Recovery scales higher with a higher stat score. Also, your End-producing procs like Panacea and Performance Shifter don't return a flat value of end, its percent based off your max End. So ar 120 max End, you're getting 12 instead of 10 on Performance Shifter procs. That adds up fast.

 

The most straightforward and broadly applicable way to boost max End is with Accolades. This can be tricky to do early on but if you're good with some farming and faction swapping, you can have 110 End as early as level 30 (or lvl 23 if you plan exquisitely to score all the Prae AV kills).

 

After that, various ATO bonuses can help you push that number up, especially if you break up the slotting like on 2pc (Superior) Might of the Tanker. And if you're fat on slots, a 2pc Preemptive Optimazation in Stamina can make a big difference alongside a 2pc Performance Shifter. 

 

But that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more ways you can get creative with set bonuses. 

[StrikerFox]

-Slot for end reduction in powers while leveling.
-Three slot Stamina as soon as possible.
-Look for IO set bonuses that provide +rec, +max end and end discount.
-Logout in Arena to earn the Duelist Badge (+6 end for 2 hrs).
-Carry endurance inspirations.

Level 1: Select the Recovery Enhancer reward from Death From Below

Level 1: Buy the Blue Wisp Pet (Or equivalent) from the START Vendor

Level 1: Buy the Secondary Mutation Power from the START Vendor to try to get the Pain Tolerance Mutation

Level 1: Buy the Recovery Serum from the START Vendor

Level 1: Buy the Survival Amplifier from the START Vendor
Level 7: Slot Panacea proc in Health
Level 17: Slot Miracle unique in Health
Level 18: Slot Performance Shifter proc in Stamina

Level 20: Consider taking Unleash Potential and/or Unrelenting from Power Pools
Level 23: Start working on the Atlas Medallion accolade, and finish it asap.
Level 27: Slot Numina proc in Health
Level 35: Take Superior Conditioning from the Body Mastery pool and slot a Performance Shifter proc (Brutes and Stalkers)
Level 40: Start working on the Portal Jockey accolade, and finish it asap.
Level 41: Take Physical Perfection from the Body Mastery pool and slot a Performance Shifter proc (Melee ATs)

Level 50: Consider taking Musculature Radial or Agility Alpha for end modification
Level 50: Consider taking Cardiac or Vigor Alpha for end reduction
Level 50: Consider taking Ageless Destiny for end recovery boost
Level 50: Consider taking a radial Lore pet that provides a +end boost
Level 50: Consider taking Support Hybrid for the passive end reduction

Level 35-44: Alot of ATs have Soul Consumption and Consume in their Ancillary Pools

[Lusiphur Malache]

With all those toggles to help teammates, you just might have to click less let them do the work.  

[Maelwys]

The raw stat boost benefit from running Maneuvers, Assault and Tactics is tiny on (non VEAT) melee ATs. You can gain an additional location for a LotG +7.5% Global Rech in Maneuvers, but you don't need the power toggled on to benefit from it. 

 

FWIW on most of my toons I'll aim for a recovery surplus of at least 2 endurance per second. Occasionally I'll drop below that if the toon is running Ageless and/or has an inherent endurance restoration power. 

[Uun]

I try not to take both the Leadership pool and the Fighting pool on any character.

 

In addition to the various endurance discount set bonuses outlined above, Hybrid Support provides an always on 10% end discount.

[tidge]

I almost never have all my toggles on. Sprint can do a number on the blue bar during combat.

 

Set bonuses that increase MaxEnd will help, as will the accolades.

 

Attacks (and toggles that will be on) need to have some Endurance Reduction.

 

perma-Hasten is a blue bar killer.The one-track approach to achieving perma-Hasten restricts certain other build choices/set bonuses, but the real nasty is spamming attacks that are probably burning Endurance too quickly. Clicking powers less frequently spends less Endurance and allows more time for blue bar refilling.

 

I only ever use the Numina global if the character is otherwise going to have a power with just one Healing piece in it. By the time a character can slot it, it should pretty much have the Endurance bar under control IMO.

 

From memory: the only character of mine that has Endurance issues that needed adjustment via Incarnates was a Fortunata. Something about the toggles, attacks (I took quite a few from the Patron pool, which is unusual for my builds) and controls that have her running exceptionally hot.

[Doomguide2005]

Pretty well covered by all the above.  For an endurance heavy build (say my Fire/Sonic Controller) I'll basically build it like I do any other build wanting something specific out of it be it defenses, recharge or in this case blue bar.  A majority of the powers taken will support that goal via their chosen sets.  Defenses get 4 slots of Gift of the Ancients (adding both recovery and max end), Resist powers got Impervium Armor (again +recovery and +max end), attacks tend to get Decimation (+max end), or Purples with +4% recovery and so on.  I'll be sure to get Accolades that add +max end.  I'll work at getting Geas of the Kind Ones (a huge boost to +recovery) and if needed this character (my Fire/Sonic) can simply sit there letting the Imps, Hot feet, Bonfire, Liquefy do the heavy lifting.  She has a max Endurance of 120.8 and runs 3 very expensive toggles (Disruption Field, Hot Feet, and Dispersion Bubble (base cost 2.08 end/sec reduced to 1.28 end sec with slotting) plus 3 Leadership toggles.  And still nets a relatively scary 1.4 end/sec with Cardiac Core Paragon bringing that up to a hair over 2.00 end/sec.  She has START recover buff and fairly regularly grabs the base empowerment.  And then has available Conserve Power (180 sec recharge, 90 sec up time) which all brings her up to around 2.79 end/sec prior to temp and START powers.  Still working on improving her but that's where the current Live build stands.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I saw your post and thought, huh, I usually don't have too many problems with endurance, so I looked at some of my endurance-heavy characters.  I *rarely* have health or stamina with more than two slots total each (panacea proc and miracle proc, perf shifter proc and perf shifter end mod, in that order), and I *rarely* run more than one toggle from the leadership pool, so take this with a grain of salt.  I see two categories:  pre-50 and 50+ and I'm going to start with my thoughts on the latter:

 

50+

 

-  Radial Ageless Destiny is almost always my go to for solo work, both for the instant blue bar fill and for the debuff resistance.  I don't often run characters with high or very high defense debuff resistance, so I tend to use it pre-emptively when wandering into a group with a lot of defense debuff powers.  Of course, that means that I don't have that blue bar fill for another two minutes, but I usually only need that for long AV fights.

 

-  purple sets.  Just about all if not all have a 4% recovery bonus for two+ pieces.  That adds up.  If you can forego the five piece bonus for recharge and frankenslot, you can get a lot of recovery.  Also, get them at fixed level 50 and +5 them with boosters, ESPECIALLY the D/E piece.  My final builds usually have between two and five purple sets, usually only one or two with five from the set.

 

- HOs.  Speaking of frankenslotting, lvl 53 HOs with an endurance component are great.  I don't love the set bonuses for defense sets, so my goto slotting for a generic defense power like Weave is Lotg +recharge and 2x lvl 53 Cyto.

 

pre-50

 

-- I like to play organically, so if I am playing and I have endurance issues, I will either respec right away or add powers/slots at the next level to fix that.  There is zero shame in four slotting stamina early on and respeccing out later.

 

-- Slot endurance early and often in your attacks.  If I'm playing with SOs, I always start with an accuracy, then a damage, then whatever I need.  Early on that's usually recharge or more damage, but if I'm taking a knee after every fight, there is zero shame in slotting 2x endurance in an attack.  I'd rather live long enough to hit them three times than to feel I have to defeat them after two.  Also, SOs are cheap, so you don't have to bother with a respec to change them around, just drag and replace.

 

-- Look for pool and epic powers to help out, if only temporarily.  The Psionic Mastery epic for scrappers, for example, was a blessing since you can get a snipe and a recovery/regeneration tool with only two power picks.  Force of Will/Unleash Potential is pretty magical.  Slot it for recharge and then defense/endurance modification/regeneration.  It's not up all the time, but it's great when it is.  When I take it, I'll slot the hell out of it.

[Yomo Kimyata]

Also, I will set up my character stats monitor to watch endurance recovery and endurance use.  That's useful both in terms of seeing where your weaknesses are, and seeing when you've been debuffed.