Proc Monsters - The New Offender

[Sir Myshkin]

11 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

If and when you do this, I hope you record it.  It would be glorious to watch!

Forgot to add this to my last mass-reply, but about mid-to-upper of page 2, I already did the Traps testing, Time Bomb and Trip Mine regrettably don't do anything with the procs. I didn't go super crazy on Time Bomb, but when you run your fifth one in a row without even one single proc at all on 10-16 sized spawns, that pretty much shows there's just no return value. And Trip Mine was an easy thing to test by just stacking a dozen, walk a mob into it, and repeat. Could get a shot of 20 done in a quick hurry and repeat it over and over, just never got anything back. Instead I just got really confidant in my ability to sap the Trip Mine for FF+Rech. I used stacking those to super-recharge Time Bomb :3

[SlimPickens]

On 8/6/2019 at 9:02 PM, Sir Myshkin said:

 

I didn't do my testing with Dual Pistols, but when it comes to Time, the PB+Clarion is a really nice combo, and I had actually even forgotten about the Clarion aspect until Bopper pointed it out to me again. By stacking the two together you can massively multiply not just the +Def aspect of Farsight, but also its +To-Hit, which is huge, and why you might see that kind of build slack on the +Acc a little. When I trialed using different Epics I originally looked at Soul for the Soul Drain, but in testing practical ST damage, that ability isn't doing much, so I shifted to other forms of access into PB (specifically PBU which ended up giving me a +Dam boost there too, a little).

 

I agree, I had originally thought that dark epic was the way to go for a more perma soul drain solution, but on a proc monster build, the sould drain buff to defender damage is far less impactful than I had thought it might be, because the base damage is low, and furthermore you arent slotting for damage and slotting instead for procs... so soul drain really doesnt have much to buff.

 

I am currently 100% in the camp that power boost from soul offers far more to the /time build than the dark epic can add. power boost can make capping def for incarnate content at 59% softcap much easier to attain, make taking the temporal selection power so much more worthwhile by buffing that before cast too- a clarion/power boosted temp selection buff is really nasty. And PBU from the epic offering that is probably even more worthwhile.

 

So yeah with an artificial damage build that works outside the enhancement system with procs, soul drain just doesnt do much besides a bit more +to hit and boosting the musculature enhanced damage, since damage isnt being buffed much by actual IO %s- which im actually considering if musculature is even worth it as well- maybe agility would be the better alpha for this set up. Still working out whats best for me, but with all the testing and insight offered by Bopper, youself, Redlynnes time/dp defender threads, its been a fun little experiment.

 

edit: agility would mess up the PPm scaling wouldnt it? since its not a global but an ench bonus to rech... ah well guess musculature still makes the most sense then.

Edited August 8, 2019 by SlimPickens

[subbacultchas]

I'm finishing up my current attempt at a proc monster, with a Beam/Time corrupter. I've only got it at 45 and I'm still working out which ST attacks will benefit best from which procs. I am using a 3-4 slotted distortion field with only procs, and the one decent size cone we get now is set with 4 procs out of it's 6 slots. I'll try to get it to 50 this weekend and put my build up, after I test out several more things and make a firm decision on keeping distortion field or not.

[Sir Myshkin]

7 hours ago, SlimPickens said:

So yeah with an artificial damage build that works outside the enhancement system with procs, soul drain just doesnt do much besides a bit more +to hit and boosting the musculature enhanced damage, since damage isnt being buffed much by actual IO %s- which im actually considering if musculature is even worth it as well- maybe agility would be the better alpha for this set up. Still working out whats best for me, but with all the testing and insight offered by Bopper, youself, Redlynnes time/dp defender threads, its been a fun little experiment.

So far in all of the builds I've put together, I focused on Intuition Radial over Musculature. There's enough secondary effects occurring for most of the abilities in the builds that Intuition has more overall benefit than just focusing on damage alone (Dam, Range, -Def, Hold, -ToHit, Slow). As far as damage enhancement is concerned, depending on the power, most only get three procs, and three slots is more than enough to try and get a better balance of damage, accuracy, and some endurance into. Sadly endurance is probably the one thing that often suffers the most depending on what sets can be packed, but typically Acc/Dam/End and Dam/End are available in quite a few, and the third is usually Acc/Dam when trying to avoid sticking any kind of Recharge enhancing unit in there. The powers aren't at a total loss for enhancement, and Intuition does help get those into the 100-110% range for sure, but even then, yeah, +Dam boosters in general--on Defenders, due to their lower damage modifiers--have less overall bang.

 

I tried experimenting with Hybrid's Assault Core and Radial. When I ran Core, I only saw a 20/s reduction in time on a 5:00+ Pylon run. That power runs for a considerable length, and I ran it twice, and its appreciable difference was tiny, and in a couple of runs, I actually ended up completing the run at the exact same time that I did when I didn't run it, so missing some procs killed me more than anything. The Radial, between the two, ended up being a better choice because instead of trying to enhance my meager damage, it doubled what I did have which was a higher net value (over all). The interesting aspect is that if you look at this scenario on Scrappers, +Dam% = higher returns, Double Damage = smaller comparative returns, but this is flipped for Defenders, and that makes total sense given.

 

And yeah, you already edited in the realization that Agility would be a negative impact on the proc returns here, and not worth using.

[Sir Myshkin]

7 hours ago, subbacultchas said:

I'm finishing up my current attempt at a proc monster, with a Beam/Time corrupter. I've only got it at 45 and I'm still working out which ST attacks will benefit best from which procs. I am using a 3-4 slotted distortion field with only procs, and the one decent size cone we get now is set with 4 procs out of it's 6 slots. I'll try to get it to 50 this weekend and put my build up, after I test out several more things and make a firm decision on keeping distortion field or not.

I had terrible luck with Distortion Field, but Bopper did a ton more testing with it filled with 4-5 procs and had a lot more success with it hitting and being a relatively solid add-in for the extra damage. Either way I don't know that I'd necessarily trash DF if you can avoid it just because it helps keep things inside Slowed Response's field.

[subbacultchas]

10 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

I had terrible luck with Distortion Field, but Bopper did a ton more testing with it filled with 4-5 procs and had a lot more success with it hitting and being a relatively solid add-in for the extra damage. Either way I don't know that I'd necessarily trash DF if you can avoid it just because it helps keep things inside Slowed Response's field.

Too late, I already respeced it out for space concerns. But my 50 build is not exactly final, so it may find itself right back in the mix. I dropped it, and sadly Time Stop, because even procced out I always seem to have better things to do than use either of those,.

One question though: isn't slowed response a target aoe, and not a patch? It shouldn't need anything kept in it, since it fires off as a target based aoe, should it? I only picked it up at 45 or so, thus I haven't used it but a handful of times. 

[SmalltalkJava]

Sorry if I missed this in the thread above.  But has anyone tested the MM Summom Wolves with Shield Breaker proc and Lady Grey Negative damage proc because they have 2 attacks on short cool down that have -def effects.      I was wondering if I should proc slot them or not, as a general rule.   The wolves take a lot of procs selections

Edited August 10, 2019 by SmalltalkJava

[Sir Myshkin]

13 hours ago, subbacultchas said:

One question though: isn't slowed response a target aoe, and not a patch? It shouldn't need anything kept in it, since it fires off as a target based aoe, should it? I only picked it up at 45 or so, thus I haven't used it but a handful of times. 

No, you're right, I'm thinking of so many different powers at this point. Slowed is a targetted AoE. Doesn't really change my thoughts on keeping the ability though.

 

6 hours ago, SmalltalkJava said:

Sorry if I missed this in the thread above.  But has anyone tested the MM Summom Wolves with Shield Breaker proc and Lady Grey Negative damage proc because they have 2 attacks on short cool down that have -def effects.      I was wondering if I should proc slot them or not, as a general rule.   The wolves take a lot of procs selections

The only focus I had in this thread was for testing Defender options, so there's no (real) Mastermind discussion here. There is a thread in the MM subsection that a few folks have dabbled a little bit in procs with their pets, but it's been a while since I looked in on it since it looked like they sorta slowed down a bit. Eventually I'll get there myself in reviewing each of the primaries for options, but it's a bit far off on the list. My next project is already in gear for Controllers.

[Darkir]

On 8/8/2019 at 12:19 PM, SlimPickens said:

edit: agility would mess up the PPm scaling wouldnt it? since its not a global but an ench bonus to rech... ah well guess musculature still makes the most sense then.

Yeah, musculature is really your only good option for the alpha slot in a build like this I'd say. To clarify an implication of your previous paragraph though, soul drain adds enhanced dmg, it doesn't buff the dmg of enhanced dmg. What I mean is the dmg cap for defender's is 400%, but the enhanced dmg cap is 300% because you start at 100% dmg. On most builds you start around 195%-205% because of the dmg enhancements slotted into powers. Most defender non-proc based defender builds would be at the dmg cap with enhancements+aim (with Gaussian)+saturated soul drain. So, when you say that soul drain "doesn't have much to buff," that is a bit of an unclear statement, as the enhanced dmg from soul drain and enhancements are additive and not multiplicative. 

[Hjarki]

6 hours ago, Darkir said:

Yeah, musculature is really your only good option for the alpha slot in a build like this I'd say. To clarify an implication of your previous paragraph though, soul drain adds enhanced dmg, it doesn't buff the dmg of enhanced dmg. What I mean is the dmg cap for defender's is 400%, but the enhanced dmg cap is 300% because you start at 100% dmg. On most builds you start around 195%-205% because of the dmg enhancements slotted into powers. Most defender non-proc based defender builds would be at the dmg cap with enhancements+aim (with Gaussian)+saturated soul drain. So, when you say that soul drain "doesn't have much to buff," that is a bit of an unclear statement, as the enhanced dmg from soul drain and enhancements are additive and not multiplicative. 

I generally make an assumption of +150% for all the various static features of a build. It's probably a wee bit high, but it's a nice round number. Aim + Gaussian's is +130% on that, which puts you 20% away from the cap.

 

On somewhat related note, I think Soul Drain is an over-rated power because players tend not to think about the fungibility of build attributes.

 

Basically, Soul Drain is just a way to replace +damage inspirations in the same way that Conserve Power is a way to replace +endurance inspirations or Weave is a way to replace +defense inspirations. So the question really becomes which replacement is most effective for your build?

 

I'd argue that inspirations are almost always better than Soul Drain for a Defender for three reasons:

• Inspirations are no-risk. Soul Drain is high risk.
• Soul Drain requires a three-power investment that precludes many other potentially critical choices and shackles you to one of the weaker resist toggles (negative/toxic are not common damage types). Inspirations don't care what epic/patron pool you picked.
• Soul Drain is useless when you most need damage boosts: the AV/GM fight. Mass AE tends to be very granular in the sense that your ultimate is going to annihilate all of the minions/lieutenants it catches while leaving all of the bosses alive. Raising yourself to the damage cap will not change this - you'll still be left with the bosses, the minions/lieutenants will still be dead. In contrast, AV/GM fights do reward incremental improvements in damage since the longer the fight goes on the more you need to deal with the AV/GM's attack and the more it regenerates.

[mezzosoprano]

On 8/5/2019 at 11:21 PM, Sir Myshkin said:

For me, I'm a bit over-exagerating the impact of having to "click" that power drop. A bind is definitely a worth-while way to go, but in my case I'm using a mouse with a 12-key thumb pad and I line up my primary, secondary, and tertiary use powers on my corresponding trays (1, 2, 3). 1-6 clicks tray 1, alt+1-6 tray 2, ctrl+1-6 tray 3. If anyone watched the video might notice, my cursor stays at the base of the Pylon during the run (for the most part), and anytime I had to rotate through powers like Oil Slick or Disruption Arrow, all I was doing was holding down alt and hitting 4, (click), 3, 2, (click), 1 (Aim), let go of alt, 2, 3, 1. Honestly a stationary run like a Pylon is kind of boring from my perspective because all I'm doing is rotating both my thumbs between a few buttons within a square inch space, and the alt button.

 

I bind drop powers to a macro with the same image as the source power.  If I have no target selected, the powers are cast at my feet.

 

/macro_image stormsummoning_freezingrain.texture "Freezing Rain" "powexec_location me freezing rain$$powexec_location target freezing rain"

[subbacultchas]

On 8/9/2019 at 10:15 PM, Sir Myshkin said:

No, you're right, I'm thinking of so many different powers at this point. Slowed is a targetted AoE. Doesn't really change my thoughts on keeping the ability though.

 

It's all good. And you're correct, I've rebuilt a couple of times post-50 and I actually miss Distortion Field. I've got a final working build and will be taking it, and 4-5 slotting it with procs if I've freed up enough space. 

[Sir Myshkin]

Fun Note:

 

Of all the different builds I went through, I got really attached to the idea of a TA/A Proc Monster, and decided to build on on the normal servers. She's 45 right now and only missing the level 50 Purple sets and catalysed ATO's. Having a blast running around and also finding new ways to light Oil Slick! Discovered Explosive Arrow is a pretty reliable way to do it alongside a Proc'd Acid Arrow.

 

Disruption > Acid > Oil > Rain > Explosive > Fist > Next Spawn. Wait for the rest of the team to realize the Defender just cleared a spawn in less than ten seconds.

 

Was joining AV (Maria/Unai) teams. Someone commented about how they hated fighting the "tougher" ones, and then we shredded through Diabolique in >30/s and they were like "WTH, where'd we get debuffs from. Trick Arrow? Seriously?!"

 

One Proc Monster at a time.

[Bionic_Flea]

Never underestimate Hawkeye or Green Arrow!

[natewest1987]

Did I overlook any testing with Storm or Poison ?   Tried to sift through the posts for it

[SmalltalkJava]

On 8/13/2019 at 2:01 AM, Sir Myshkin said:

Fun Note:

 

Of all the different builds I went through, I got really attached to the idea of a TA/A Proc Monster, and decided to build on on the normal servers. She's 45 right now and only missing the level 50 Purple sets and catalysed ATO's. Having a blast running around and also finding new ways to light Oil Slick! Discovered Explosive Arrow is a pretty reliable way to do it alongside a Proc'd Acid Arrow.

 

Disruption > Acid > Oil > Rain > Explosive > Fist > Next Spawn. Wait for the rest of the team to realize the Defender just cleared a spawn in less than ten seconds.

 

Was joining AV (Maria/Unai) teams. Someone commented about how they hated fighting the "tougher" ones, and then we shredded through Diabolique in >30/s and they were like "WTH, where'd we get debuffs from. Trick Arrow? Seriously?!"

 

One Proc Monster at a time.

Cool!   I took your TA/A build and did a morph to MM Beast/TA.  The /TA worked really well on him also.  I’m still tweaking him a bit in the Beast side of things but the /TA works like a charm!

[subbacultchas]

Just want to shout out to folks in this thread, especially Bopper and Sir Myshkin who have given some damned good input and advice on procs. My Beam/Time puts out some impressive damage compared to what I envisioned when I started the character.  Some things like Distortion Field are solid proc choices, but a lot of the single target attacks I proc'd seem to have stupidly high damage. I have at least 4 single target attacks and 1 cone slotted with 2-4 procs each, and while some are better than others (Lancer, Piercing, Penetrating Shot) they're all pretty damned good. Thanks for the help with all of this over the last few weeks.

Edited August 15, 2019 by subbacultchas

[Sir Myshkin]

37 minutes ago, natewest1987 said:

Did I overlook any testing with Storm or Poison ?   Tried to sift through the posts for it

I didn't explicitly do anything testing here for Storm Summoning because this thread already focuses specifically on that set, and is kind of where I got the itch to go down this path of testing mechanics and looking for the best options for Proc Monsters. Over there I was testing and building an Ice/Storm Corruptor. There's a ton of good insight from @Hjarkiand @Obitus about their time with Storm, and other mechanics I looked into like verifying the state of Rains (Freezing and Sleet specifically there) with procs (they "don't work"). For the build I had been going for over there I couldn't take it in a direction that really demonstrated some of the insanity that Procs could get away with, and thus... here we are.

 

Storm itself is a really offensive set and really screams for needing a lot of global recharge to get Lightning Storm and Tornado cycled fast, so it's a little trickier cause its harder to bend sets and recharge bonuses while keeping things packed with procs, but it is kind of the ultimate proc-centered monster out of all of them (for Defenders). I posted a Storm/Dark in the original topic post in my "update edit" for those that might be inclined to try that set out. Dark is the most effective proc blast set, so I pulled what I had there and paired it with the Storm as appropriate. It has a lotgoing on. But if you want more exploration info on the set, see the above link.

 

As for Poison, I also talked about that set in a couple places, but not through extensive testing. Poison doesn't really have anything you can bend for procs against. Envenom has a couple +Dam and the Achilles, Paralytic Poison can take 3-4 (just as any standard hold power) and can temp as a light-use ST. Poison Trap is the only real crazy ability in the set as it can take quite an assortment, but it'll end up working just the same as Poison Trap from the Traps set (which was tested in this thread). Venomous Gas can also take an Achilles, but since they can't stack, and Envenom recharges so quick, slotting it there doesn't really have any benefit. So, yeah, holistically Poison doesn't really have much going on for Procs, and doesn't provide any significant level of defensive capacity. It's really focused on just tossing around a few debuffs and... that's it.

 

With the primary focus being Solo, half of what Poison does is also absolutely useless to a solo player, which resulted in a set where a Solo player would only be looking at 4-5 of the powers. Even in the situation of teaming, several of those other abilities are kind of useless in today's meta. The only powers I'd even consider would be Envenom, Antidote, Poison Trap, and Venomous Gas, maybe Weaken for the -To-Hit aspect being so strong. That's all primarily just debfuff centered abilities, and of that, primarily -Res and -Regen. I can get both of those in copious amounts for two abilities in Radiation, Cold, Thermal, Dark... Poison isn't a very good set in my opinion.

 

If you really wanted to bend some kind of Proc Monster out of it, I'd suggest taking the above mentioned five abilities and pair it with Dark Blast, grab the standard Tough/Weave/Scorpion Shield, Arcane Bolt and Enflame from Sorcery to really hammer home on -Res effects, then shove in Medicine for Aid Other, Self, and Field Medic.

 

This is a very hastily tossed together shell, slot placements are subjective in some places. You can pull the Dark Blast enhancement slotting out of any of the other builds I posted (doesn't change on any of them). This is a very fragile concept with Poison as it relies massively on Weaken and Venomous Gas to deliver -37% To Hit debuff, and that is a very tiny 8' radius of effect. S/L/E will be fine under Scorpion Shield, but you really want more.

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Defender
Primary Power Set: Poison
Secondary Power Set: Dark Blast
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Sorcery
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Envenom -- TchofLadG-%Dam(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(5), ShlBrk-%Dam(7)
Level 1: Dark Blast -- Empty(A), Empty(7), Empty(9), Empty(9), Empty(11), Empty(42)
Level 2: Weaken -- CldSns-%Dam(A), Empty(50)
Level 4: Aid Other -- Empty(A), Empty(45), Empty(46)
Level 6: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Moonbeam -- Empty(A), Empty(13), Empty(13), Empty(15), Empty(15), Empty(17)
Level 10: Hasten -- Empty(A), Empty(11)
Level 12: Antidote -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 14: Tough -- Empty(A), Empty(17), Empty(37), Empty(37)
Level 16: Weave -- Empty(A), Empty(40), Empty(40), Empty(42)
Level 18: Gloom -- Empty(A), Empty(19), Empty(19), Empty(21), Empty(21), Empty(23)
Level 20: Aid Self -- Empty(A), Empty(43), Empty(43), Empty(46)
Level 22: Tenebrous Tentacles -- Empty(A), Empty(23), Empty(25), Empty(25), Empty(27), Empty(27)
Level 24: Field Medic -- Empty(A), Empty(46)
Level 26: Poison Trap -- Empty(A), Empty(29), Empty(29), Empty(31), Empty(33), Empty(33)
Level 28: Torrent -- Empty(A), Empty(33), Empty(34), Empty(34), Empty(34), Empty(36)
Level 30: Arcane Bolt -- GldJvl-Dam%(A), ExpStr-Dam%(31), FrcFdb-Rechg%(31)
Level 32: Venomous Gas -- TchofLadG-%Dam(A), EndRdx-I(43)
Level 35: Scorpion Shield -- Empty(A), Empty(36), Empty(36), Empty(37)
Level 38: Blackstar -- Empty(A), Empty(39), Empty(39), Empty(39), Empty(40), Empty(50)
Level 41: Mystic Flight -- Empty(A), Empty(42)
Level 44: Enflame -- PstBls-Dam%(A), Ann-ResDeb%(45), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(45), Empty(48), Empty(48), Empty(50)
Level 47: Rune of Protection -- Empty(A), Empty(48)
Level 49: Elixir of Life -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(3), Mrc-Rcvry+(3)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(5)
Level 50: Intuition Radial Paragon
------------

 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
		|MxDz;1318;594;1188;HEX;|
		|78DA6554DD6E1251109EFD0184425BA495B6080815A814B710BD376951A3B10DA98|
		|9B76403074A24BB6459127BE985F7A6467D0135C618AFF5D207F039F4C69F375887|
		|39A774923DC97E67F79B39DFCC9933670F9FB5935FEE3FBF03DAF2C1D89E4EBB6D3|
		|1104E5F78B123DB9F79F618E62386CFDAB9A5BB3F1B0CAC8E3B9ABACED6823CB69D|
		|A1E85B6DDB7BDADD47253FFDC039119E707CEBFC25D571DDB17528FAA3DEC811F2E|
		|BDE6878E28F9C6182BE1E4F84E827E5ABEBF584779ABB3B19F5AC03D7F36613DFF5|
		|BA87764F204C7DB46D6056557C822AA811E8F043076899607EC7396342346A00E44|
		|D78A72F7C2210E08028E1258609C21B845003D0A4BFA6FDD249A345963C16C350D1|
		|0C621A84370975B446A41522C47CD065FDE69163C424192E335C252CA3735C458EB|
		|3BC0CCC6849292F6535CAC840DF14A5191829A6719DA1893E2BCA6785981A43B9DB|
		|F798635AE59826E632C3358657088BA89991FE4686983A4359898FA8B9AE34D7D9D|
		|A0D865B0C5F5600B26ADF59A613C17D6F2A9D4D62AE322C105E63F809E3E6947F8E|
		|F1A5106E139E61DCBCAC8F9E6F18D43D8553D93D8517B29BA2984351E556541D562|
		|F01CD135C5256B52833DD6D76069F714945E55421A61A42791EB2C75EA1F38E8AB7|
		|C3CEE935F2BB4A67F7AB8CDFF829736E7C3369DE23CF3DA6F60657594ACD62561D7|
		|7D5541DD594353517B704E42DA9879866886985985B21E676887914628EE68C3C89|
		|A0632EEE1F68648DAF2EEE5DF03B81568D5BFF5E30BA569215D19F68727E8873CD8|
		|43FA155FF2E184D3B537F8EB76AC6666CA96CFE03842AE6AA|
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

[natewest1987]

20 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

I didn't explicitly do anything testing here for Storm Summoning because this thread already focuses specifically on that set, and is kind of where I got the itch to go down this path of testing mechanics and looking for the best options for Proc Monsters. Over there I was testing and building an Ice/Storm Corruptor. There's a ton of good insight from @Hjarkiand @Obitus about their time with Storm, and other mechanics I looked into like verifying the state of Rains (Freezing and Sleet specifically there) with procs (they "don't work"). For the build I had been going for over there I couldn't take it in a direction that really demonstrated some of the insanity that Procs could get away with, and thus... here we are.

 

Storm itself is a really offensive set and really screams for needing a lot of global recharge to get Lightning Storm and Tornado cycled fast, so it's a little trickier cause its harder to bend sets and recharge bonuses while keeping things packed with procs, but it is kind of the ultimate proc-centered monster out of all of them (for Defenders). I posted a Storm/Dark in the original topic post in my "update edit" for those that might be inclined to try that set out. Dark is the most effective proc blast set, so I pulled what I had there and paired it with the Storm as appropriate. It has a lotgoing on. But if you want more exploration info on the set, see the above link.

 

As for Poison, I also talked about that set in a couple places, but not through extensive testing. Poison doesn't really have anything you can bend for procs against. Envenom has a couple +Dam and the Achilles, Paralytic Poison can take 3-4 (just as any standard hold power) and can temp as a light-use ST. Poison Trap is the only real crazy ability in the set as it can take quite an assortment, but it'll end up working just the same as Poison Trap from the Traps set (which was tested in this thread). Venomous Gas can also take an Achilles, but since they can't stack, and Envenom recharges so quick, slotting it there doesn't really have any benefit. So, yeah, holistically Poison doesn't really have much going on for Procs, and doesn't provide any significant level of defensive capacity. It's really focused on just tossing around a few debuffs and... that's it.

 

With the primary focus being Solo, half of what Poison does is also absolutely useless to a solo player, which resulted in a set where a Solo player would only be looking at 4-5 of the powers. Even in the situation of teaming, several of those other abilities are kind of useless in today's meta. The only powers I'd even consider would be Envenom, Antidote, Poison Trap, and Venomous Gas, maybe Weaken for the -To-Hit aspect being so strong. That's all primarily just debfuff centered abilities, and of that, primarily -Res and -Regen. I can get both of those in copious amounts for two abilities in Radiation, Cold, Thermal, Dark... Poison isn't a very good set in my opinion.

 

If you really wanted to bend some kind of Proc Monster out of it, I'd suggest taking the above mentioned five abilities and pair it with Dark Blast, grab the standard Tough/Weave/Scorpion Shield, Arcane Bolt and Enflame from Sorcery to really hammer home on -Res effects, then shove in Medicine for Aid Other, Self, and Field Medic.

 

This is a very hastily tossed together shell, slot placements are subjective in some places. You can pull the Dark Blast enhancement slotting out of any of the other builds I posted (doesn't change on any of them). This is a very fragile concept with Poison as it relies massively on Weaken and Venomous Gas to deliver -37% To Hit debuff, and that is a very tiny 8' radius of effect. S/L/E will be fine under Scorpion Shield, but you really want more.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Defender
Primary Power Set: Poison
Secondary Power Set: Dark Blast
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Sorcery
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Envenom -- TchofLadG-%Dam(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(5), ShlBrk-%Dam(7)
Level 1: Dark Blast -- Empty(A), Empty(7), Empty(9), Empty(9), Empty(11), Empty(42)
Level 2: Weaken -- CldSns-%Dam(A), Empty(50)
Level 4: Aid Other -- Empty(A), Empty(45), Empty(46)
Level 6: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Moonbeam -- Empty(A), Empty(13), Empty(13), Empty(15), Empty(15), Empty(17)
Level 10: Hasten -- Empty(A), Empty(11)
Level 12: Antidote -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 14: Tough -- Empty(A), Empty(17), Empty(37), Empty(37)
Level 16: Weave -- Empty(A), Empty(40), Empty(40), Empty(42)
Level 18: Gloom -- Empty(A), Empty(19), Empty(19), Empty(21), Empty(21), Empty(23)
Level 20: Aid Self -- Empty(A), Empty(43), Empty(43), Empty(46)
Level 22: Tenebrous Tentacles -- Empty(A), Empty(23), Empty(25), Empty(25), Empty(27), Empty(27)
Level 24: Field Medic -- Empty(A), Empty(46)
Level 26: Poison Trap -- Empty(A), Empty(29), Empty(29), Empty(31), Empty(33), Empty(33)
Level 28: Torrent -- Empty(A), Empty(33), Empty(34), Empty(34), Empty(34), Empty(36)
Level 30: Arcane Bolt -- GldJvl-Dam%(A), ExpStr-Dam%(31), FrcFdb-Rechg%(31)
Level 32: Venomous Gas -- TchofLadG-%Dam(A), EndRdx-I(43)
Level 35: Scorpion Shield -- Empty(A), Empty(36), Empty(36), Empty(37)
Level 38: Blackstar -- Empty(A), Empty(39), Empty(39), Empty(39), Empty(40), Empty(50)
Level 41: Mystic Flight -- Empty(A), Empty(42)
Level 44: Enflame -- PstBls-Dam%(A), Ann-ResDeb%(45), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(45), Empty(48), Empty(48), Empty(50)
Level 47: Rune of Protection -- Empty(A), Empty(48)
Level 49: Elixir of Life -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(3), Mrc-Rcvry+(3)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(5)
Level 50: Intuition Radial Paragon
------------

 

 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
		|MxDz;1318;594;1188;HEX;|
		|78DA6554DD6E1251109EFD0184425BA495B6080815A814B710BD376951A3B10DA98|
		|9B76403074A24BB6459127BE985F7A6467D0135C618AFF5D207F039F4C69F375887|
		|39A774923DC97E67F79B39DFCC9933670F9FB5935FEE3FBF03DAF2C1D89E4EBB6D3|
		|1104E5F78B123DB9F79F618E62386CFDAB9A5BB3F1B0CAC8E3B9ABACED6823CB69D|
		|A1E85B6DDB7BDADD47253FFDC039119E707CEBFC25D571DDB17528FAA3DEC811F2E|
		|BDE6878E28F9C6182BE1E4F84E827E5ABEBF584779ABB3B19F5AC03D7F36613DFF5|
		|BA87764F204C7DB46D6056557C822AA811E8F043076899607EC7396342346A00E44|
		|D78A72F7C2210E08028E1258609C21B845003D0A4BFA6FDD249A345963C16C350D1|
		|0C621A84370975B446A41522C47CD065FDE69163C424192E335C252CA3735C458EB|
		|3BC0CCC6849292F6535CAC840DF14A5191829A6719DA1893E2BCA6785981A43B9DB|
		|F798635AE59826E632C3358657088BA89991FE4686983A4359898FA8B9AE34D7D9D|
		|A0D865B0C5F5600B26ADF59A613C17D6F2A9D4D62AE322C105E63F809E3E6947F8E|
		|F1A5106E139E61DCBCAC8F9E6F18D43D8553D93D8517B29BA2984351E556541D562|
		|F01CD135C5256B52833DD6D76069F714945E55421A61A42791EB2C75EA1F38E8AB7|
		|C3CEE935F2BB4A67F7AB8CDFF829736E7C3369DE23CF3DA6F60657594ACD62561D7|
		|7D5541DD594353517B704E42DA9879866886985985B21E676887914628EE68C3C89|
		|A0632EEE1F68648DAF2EEE5DF03B81568D5BFF5E30BA569215D19F68727E8873CD8|
		|43FA155FF2E184D3B537F8EB76AC6666CA96CFE03842AE6AA|
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

 

Thanks for the super detailed reply.   

 

I'm trying to sort out which, if any of my toons, I can warp into proc monsters.    Mostly for the sole purpose of farming.   That is really the only content I enter, fire farms.   Am interested in exploring those higher lvl trials I hear about though.   Any thoughts on any of the following?   Trying to avoid leveling another char up, also not sure how well dark blast would translate to a farming toon, since it is primarily single target and cones.

 

( already lvl 50'd )

 

corrupters - fire/storm — ice/time — water/time — fire/time

blasters - water/mental — water/time — fire/fire

Edited August 15, 2019 by natewest1987

[Hjarki]

2 hours ago, natewest1987 said:

Thanks for the super detailed reply.   

 

I'm trying to sort out which, if any of my toons, I can warp into proc monsters.    Mostly for the sole purpose of farming.   That is really the only content I enter, fire farms.   Am interested in exploring those higher lvl trials I hear about though.   Any thoughts on any of the following?   Trying to avoid leveling another char up, also not sure how well dark blast would translate to a farming toon, since it is primarily single target and cones.

 

( already lvl 50'd )

 

corrupters - fire/storm — ice/time — water/time — fire/time

blasters - water/mental — water/time — fire/fire

Blast sets are generally poor for farming since they're focused on burst rather than sustained dps. I can farm on my Storm Defender because Storm is actually quite effective - fire farms are one of the few places where Tornado routinely gets AE damage rather than single target. But to make a Blaster farmer? I think you're going to find the compromises necessary to get the defenses you need impede your ability to slot procs - even Fire Brutes struggle to soft-cap defenses (the hard capped FR is a given) enough that they can't slot for maximum possible dps. Much of the reason Defenders do so well is that they're defensive powerhouses. My Storm/Water Defender has something around double the unenhanced defense of a Fire Brute and 47.5% unenhanced Fire Resist (so I can hard-cap it without actually slotting for it).

 

For a Blaster, who starts at zero defense/resist and needs to make it all up from relatively weak pool toggles? It's a rough road.

 

Corruptors are, in some sense, 'gimpy Defenders' for this approach as well. On my Storm Defender, I have 16% pre-slotting Defense (Hover, Maneuvers, Weave, Steamy Mist). On a Storm Corruptor, you'd have 12.75%. After slotting, this is a 5% defense shortfall you have to make up somewhere. Likewise, that 47.5% pre-slotting FR turns into 35% FR on a Corruptor. You can certainly make up these shortfalls, but that means you need to use your offensive powers for defensive slotting rather than pure offense.

 

Corruptors and Blasters also don't get the payoff Defenders do. Those procs are great, but they're equally great regardless of AT. Between the struggles Corruptors have on defense and the fact that so much of the damage isn't any better for Corruptors than Defenders (this is particularly noticeable with Storm, where the Tornado/Lightning Storm damage is the same between AT and cannot Scourge), much of the time your Corruptor build will end up with both weaker defense and weaker damage than the Defender version.

 

The other reason people farm on Brutes rather than, say, Scrappers (who get all the same sets at higher damage, plus criticals) is Taunt. Even on a fire farm, lack of any form of taunt tends to result in scattered packs. While this isn't too bad when you're talking 15 - 20 yard AE, it's devastating for 8 yard ones.

 

[Bionic_Flea]

2 hours ago, natewest1987 said:

Thanks for the super detailed reply.   

 

I'm trying to sort out which, if any of my toons, I can warp into proc monsters.    Mostly for the sole purpose of farming.   That is really the only content I enter, fire farms.   Am interested in exploring those higher lvl trials I hear about though.   Any thoughts on any of the following?   Trying to avoid leveling another char up, also not sure how well dark blast would translate to a farming toon, since it is primarily single target and cones.

 

( already lvl 50'd )

 

corrupters - fire/storm — ice/time — water/time — fire/time

blasters - water/mental — water/time — fire/fire

 

I farm on a Fire/Fire/Fire blaster with softcapped fire defense and just short of 75% fire resist.  One of the keys is bonfire with a KB to KD proc.  So good!

[Sir Myshkin]

5 hours ago, natewest1987 said:

Any thoughts on any of the following?   Trying to avoid leveling another char up, also not sure how well dark blast would translate to a farming toon, since it is primarily single target and cones.

 

( already lvl 50'd )

 

corrupters - fire/storm — ice/time — water/time — fire/time

blasters - water/mental — water/time — fire/fire

In regards to Dark Blast. With how I slotted Tenebrous Tentacles and Torrent, I was able to safely, and pretty much indefinitely, spam an entire spawn into oblivion with absolutely no concern for my own safety as they spent the entirety of the effort in endless KD while tightly packed in Immobilize. A Blaster would just do it faster considering the higher damage potential. The thing to keep focused on though is what @Hjarki pointed out. You catch yourself sacrificing in areas to make a build work, and Blasters will struggle even more than any others on building any form of defensive stance.

 

When I first started this process with Ice/Storm on a Corruptor, like I mentioned before, to get where that build needed to be meant giving up on the ability to functionally be a "Proc Monster." Just like with Controllers right now having such a significant different in base values for things like Weave and Farsight, the newest build I'm preparing for my (eventually) third test (haven't even done the second one yet), I had to pull two powers out that I wanted to mess with just because I had to scrape together 5% more defense.

 

That aside, for what you already have, Fire/Storm is probably the most effective damage dealer you have, Fire/Time is probably the safest, but by no stretch a "Proc Monster" because Fire only has one damage proc it can put in most of its abilities, so you're really not stretching/maximizing much of anything. I did look at */Time for Blasters as I've honestly not done anything with it (nor even really looked at it). There's a surprising number of abilities in there that can get massively loaded up with Procs. Water, as a given and already proc-proven blast set, also has a lot of potential, and decent AoE, but you're going to be looking at a struggle of coming up with a way to stay alive that doesn't involve chugging purples/oranges/greens if you go proc-heavy.

 

/em shrug

 

I just really haven't gotten in to Blasters. I only know of one method that's an absolutely monstrosity on focus and timing that cheapens the effort to get 45% defenses without a lot of set investment, but does require a lot of recharge... it's... an ugly build.

 

Don't discount the idea of fast-tracking a new toon though. A 50 can be achieved relatively quickly these days with the 2XP boost, run a couple of MSR's and then PI Radios once you hit 40 and you should hit 50 within ... eh, 8ish hours? Maybe less? I never really timed it, but I got TA/A up to 46 within five MSR's (at 45mins total a piece) and a couple hours on AV teams (so decent, but not excessively fast XP speeds).

[natewest1987]

14 hours ago, Hjarki said:

Blast sets are generally poor for farming since they're focused on burst rather than sustained dps. I can farm on my Storm Defender because Storm is actually quite effective - fire farms are one of the few places where Tornado routinely gets AE damage rather than single target. But to make a Blaster farmer? I think you're going to find the compromises necessary to get the defenses you need impede your ability to slot procs - even Fire Brutes struggle to soft-cap defenses (the hard capped FR is a given) enough that they can't slot for maximum possible dps. Much of the reason Defenders do so well is that they're defensive powerhouses. My Storm/Water Defender has something around double the unenhanced defense of a Fire Brute and 47.5% unenhanced Fire Resist (so I can hard-cap it without actually slotting for it).

 

For a Blaster, who starts at zero defense/resist and needs to make it all up from relatively weak pool toggles? It's a rough road.

 

Corruptors are, in some sense, 'gimpy Defenders' for this approach as well. On my Storm Defender, I have 16% pre-slotting Defense (Hover, Maneuvers, Weave, Steamy Mist). On a Storm Corruptor, you'd have 12.75%. After slotting, this is a 5% defense shortfall you have to make up somewhere. Likewise, that 47.5% pre-slotting FR turns into 35% FR on a Corruptor. You can certainly make up these shortfalls, but that means you need to use your offensive powers for defensive slotting rather than pure offense.

 

Corruptors and Blasters also don't get the payoff Defenders do. Those procs are great, but they're equally great regardless of AT. Between the struggles Corruptors have on defense and the fact that so much of the damage isn't any better for Corruptors than Defenders (this is particularly noticeable with Storm, where the Tornado/Lightning Storm damage is the same between AT and cannot Scourge), much of the time your Corruptor build will end up with both weaker defense and weaker damage than the Defender version.

 

The other reason people farm on Brutes rather than, say, Scrappers (who get all the same sets at higher damage, plus criticals) is Taunt. Even on a fire farm, lack of any form of taunt tends to result in scattered packs. While this isn't too bad when you're talking 15 - 20 yard AE, it's devastating for 8 yard ones.

 

Thanks for the replies, all.   Working on my fire/storm corrupter.   Is there a consensus as to whether or not to slot achiles heel in tornado ?   I tried watching combat logs but it was a lot of spam lol.   I couldnt tell if the proc was multiple targets or just one

[Darkir]

1 hour ago, natewest1987 said:

Thanks for the replies, all.   Working on my fire/storm corrupter.   Is there a consensus as to whether or not to slot achiles heel in tornado ?   I tried watching combat logs but it was a lot of spam lol.   I couldnt tell if the proc was multiple targets or just one

The problem with creating a farming toon on a corruptor is that you need a lot of things to be self sufficient. You need to softcap a defense (whether that is positional or type depends on the set), resistance to a type as high as you can (usually s/l or fire), a heal (even with softcap defense and hardcapped res I still need to heal myself on my corruptors when I'm surrounded by mobs), 22.1% tohit for instasnipes (if you have a snipe), enough global recharge to have perma hasten (or close), and you probably want soul drain perma for the extra dmg. It is possible to get all these things, but the build choices you are forced to make in order to get them, means that you don't really have room to proc out attacks.

 

The exception to this is /time and kinetics. Let's talk about /time first. The amount of defense you get from clarion/powerboost farsight is so huge that you can pretty much use that for most of your defense. Time also gives you a native heal, which means you don't have to take the medicine pool or horde greens (even with a full stack of greens I'm not sure you could do the moon map solo safely even with capped def and res without a heal). 

 

Kinetics caps your dmg, has a heal, and can be minimally slotted so you have room for slots in powers you don't use to get the defenses that kinetics lacks. Because your dmg is capped, you don't need perma soul drain. This allows you to take another mastery like the mace mastery, which shores up kinetics lack of defense powers. You can also slot repel with the kb to kd io and the ff recharge proc which helps your global recharge a bit. Still, because of necessary placement of IOs for set bonuses, it is difficult to take advantage of procs. A DP or Ice primary can do it, but these are actually outshined on a farm by fire because all those AOE fire dots are buffed by the dmg buffs (I have tested procs on an ice/kin and a dp/kin in farms). 

 

Storm has some very good damage and proc opportunities. Steamy mist also provides some good defense that a corruptor sorely needs. However, there is no native heal and that means you probably need heal self and field medic (to make it uninterruptible, because on a farm you will be swarmed with mobs). I've been playing with builds for the last hour and I just can't seem to get all the things I want in a storm build on a corruptor. Switch it over to a defender though and things become much easier, your base dmg suffers, but you make up for it with procs.

 

If I was you and I wanted to take advantage of procs, I would use a /time corruptor or a storm defender. And I wouldn't use fire, as much as I love fire, it just can't take advantage of the i24/25 proc changes effectively. I'd also consider dual pistols as you can get a lot of FF recharge procs as well as dmg ones. I know this may require building a new toon, but it really doesn't take that long these days.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Darkir

[subbacultchas]

Seconded most of this. I've got a recent Beam/Time Corruptor I've been using that covers most of those bases Darkir covered. I'll link to it here if you want to check it out @natewest1987.