Bots/X Mastermind, what would you consider the strongest secondary?

[sutasafaia]

I'm having a really hard time deciding on what to choose here. /Traps is the obvious choice since the massive -regen can let you solo virtually anything in the game but I'm not so sure that's really the only option.

 

I've been tempted to try out /Time, /Dark, and /Rad, although since (to my understanding) they are trying to revert to i24 since i25 is all custom stuff /Rad may not be available for MM forever?

 

Obviously my intent is soloing, at least for this character, so maybe I should just stick to the tried and true traps? We already know it works after all.

 

[edit] I also considered a Brute but really not sure that's going to solo as well as a MM :)

[srmalloy]

I've enjoyed /Dark, even though the heal forces you up closer to the action to keep your pets in the heal AoE, but I've found that Tar Patch, Darkest Night, and Howling Twilight are powerful debuffs for neutering mobs. When fully upgraded, your bots have an annoying tendency to knock mobs out of your Tar Patch, but they usually come back... if they haven't died while flying.

[baratacom]

/Dark is strong, particularly good for teaming up with people; it's a fairly active set, though less than traps, requiring smart positioning and your capstone is a rather troublemaker seventh pet. Pair it with flight (actually hover) for a way to stay close to the action but still rather detached.

 

/FF is also pretty good, back when I stopped playing it was troublesome getting everyone bubbled up, but other than that, it was very hands-off, which can be both a blessing and a curse as the bots are also fairly hands off, so FF does allow the option for tighter microing and use the bots knock effects more effectively and even their hitboxes as a form of control, but can easily become stale; it also lacks debuffing options.

 

/Traps as you noticed is very strong, although I find it a fair bit busier than most secondaries, still, it's effective and not as busy as stuff like storm or trick arrow.

 

/Time seems strong at a glance, but I lack actual knowledge with it to comment much beyond that.

[Nebulan]

I have rolled a Bots Mastermind with Radiation secondary.

I'm only about Level 16, but with the bots, the radiation self-centered AOE heal, and the radiation ToHit and Defense debuffs I'm having a blast !!

[Arashi]

I don't know if I'd call it 'the strongest', but I had a 50 Bot/Trap MM prior to shutdown. Traps is more involved then the other secondaries I had tried (at the time anyways) but it helped that most of it is/was fire-and-forget. The FF drone helps boost up the Prot-Bot's bubbles as well so there's synergy. Traps had tools to cover nearly every required debuff for hard targets and with the right location and time, you can pull spawns into a veritable killing field before the bots even get started.

Downside is the recharge on the the traps and their end costs vs odds of them being triggered.

[McJigg]

I really like Poison on my bots Mastermind.

 

Envenom is super strong and doesn't get enough credit. I'm at work so I can't check exact numbers but it's along the lines of -30% defense and -20% resistance to the main target and smaller debuffs in a small AoE.

 

When there's a key target (such as an Arch-Villain), that's giving all your bots (and team mates) +30% accuracy and +20% damage. It's also -regen, and -heal. This is the key move that will let you solo Arch-Villains and Elite Bossess.

 

If you don't have a tank, than Weaken is the move that will prevent that key target from killing anything in the time it's alive.

 

Jump in and spread Neurotoxic Breath to severely slow an entire group.

 

Everything else except Poison Trap and Noxious Gas is good for groups. Poison Trap I never found much use for. Noxious Gas is better on other primaries with melee pets.

[8 Ball]

It's cliche and overused but /Dark really is a strong secondary (my first villain 50 was a Bots/Dark mastermind) good heal, lots of nice target debuffs to help your pets, some nice control powers and even another pet at the end.

 

I found /Poison good if your going up against a lot of single higher targets, not so good for large groups.

 

Haven't played with /Rad yet though I imagine it's probably pretty strong.

[Lazarillo]

I'm only about Level 16, but with the bots, the radiation self-centered AOE heal, and the radiation ToHit and Defense debuffs I'm having a blast !!

Only beef with Bots/Rad is that Fallout doesn't work on the pets (or so I hear).  How satisfying it would've been to be able to be, like "whoops, unstable power core!" and then blow up the bot your enemies thought they defeated.  Outside o'that, yeah, it seems pretty grand, though I'm not far with mine, either.

[ch1m3r4c0mpl3x]

/FF is also pretty good, back when I stopped playing it was troublesome getting everyone bubbled up, but other than that, it was very hands-off, which can be both a blessing and a curse as the bots are also fairly hands off, so FF does allow the option for tighter microing and use the bots knock effects more effectively and even their hitboxes as a form of control, but can easily become stale; it also lacks debuffing options.

 

It's worth noting that bubbles now hit all nearby allies with a single cast, so potentially less micro'ing, and more staleness, but far more effective.

[Rathys (SC)]

Most of this is memory from before CoH shut down, so forgive me if anything has changed since then:

 

Bots/Time is probably the best all around MM after investing a little bit. Great team buffs, enemy debuffs and great solo survivability. Won't buff damage as much as a kin, but has some good recharge buffs that stack well with other support damage buffs.

 

With power boost and farsight, it's pretty easy to defense soft cap with a protector bot shield and some minimal defense set bonuses. If farsight was a toggle, and power boost interacted with it differently, it would be a lot worse. But power boost is very strong with clicky defensives compared to toggles, since it lasts the entire duration of the click rather than the 15 seconds of power boost.

 

You can also give your allies a nice chunk of defense too, not as much as FF though. But close, and more def for yourself than FF has. Your double shielded bots will easily hit defense softcap as well. With Scorpion shield it's not hard to hit 65% personal defense to smashing/lethal/energy, which will let you tank most incarnate content too. Perma hasten and perma time Tier 9 (forgot the name) is pretty easy to hit too with a few LotG and a incarnate alpha agility (easier now in Homecoming). Debuffs on par with most of the other sets, -acc (not as much as rad or dark, but farsight buff more than makes up for it), -def, -dam, -damage resist. Has a good amount of -regen, not as much as rad and traps, but enough to solo AVs though. Some decent soft control with tons of -recharge, an AoE random "pulsing" hold, as well as a single target hold for nastier mobs like sappers. Has some okay healing and regen too.

 

Basically, time is an all around good buffer/debuffer that can defense soft cap yourself and get your team well on the way there.

 

Does lack CC resist, but unlike rad and dark, you can def soft cap without offensive toggles. So even if you get CC'd and your offensive toggle drops, you're still def capped and pretty much unkillable. Basically, you won't get CC'd often, and when you do, it won't matter much compared to some of the other supports power sets. Also, even though you're defense soft capped, you're still weak to -def debuffs that manage to hit you. But that's a weakness of almost all def softcapped class in the game besides sets built for it that have defense debuff resistance, like SR.

 

I think overall, /time is just better than /traps. I think /traps is really clunky with the force field generator, acid mortar, and poison trap, and having to set stuff up, and /time has better/more dependable buffs and debuffs, outside of the more powerful -regen in traps.  In general, I think /time is just faster as you aren't depending on setting things up, and traps going off when you want them to and hitting the targets you want them to. I had a bots/traps for a long time before /time came out, and my /time just felt a little smoother and more consistent after investing some IOs and getting incarnate stuff.

 

I think /traps has only slightly less potential than /time though, so if you like the playstyle of setting stuff up and being a "trapper", it probably won't make much of difference 90% of the time. I do think /traps and /time are easily the best "solo everything" MM secondaries though. Everything else lacks the debuffs and/or pseudo invincibility for the hardest content. I think if farsight didn't work with power boost the way it does, it would be a little closer. Also, Homecoming making it easier to get incarnate abilities and LotG procs just makes /time that much easier to setup, where /traps is a little less dependent on those things.

[Razor Cure]

Having made a time corr and troller, I think Bots/Time would be one of the best. Another amazing combo, and one I had, was bots/storm.

No worry about knocking things out of tar, Freezing Rain debuffs for the full duration. With the slow from than AND snow storm, hardly anything can attack. Also the -acc and range from Tornado is insane.

Downside..very very end heavy, and no aoe heal. hence..Bots/Time.

[zimz]

When people say "-regen in traps."  - what does that mean? I do not really see any powers that does something about regen.

 

Sorry for being a newb, i most likely missed something.

 

And what is the best powers in traps?

[Dakota Whitemane]

When people say "-regen in traps."  - what does that mean? I do not really see any powers that does something about regen.

 

Sorry for being a newb, i most likely missed something.

 

And what is the best powers in traps?

 

Poison trap does -regen in the traps set. So does one of the Assault Bot's attacks. Regeneration of health in any sort of noticeable amount is something you only really start running into in Elite Bosses and Up.

[zimz]

When people say "-regen in traps."  - what does that mean? I do not really see any powers that does something about regen.

 

Sorry for being a newb, i most likely missed something.

 

And what is the best powers in traps?

 

Poison trap does -regen in the traps set. So does one of the Assault Bot's attacks. Regeneration of health in any sort of noticeable amount is something you only really start running into in Elite Bosses and Up.

 

 

Ah okay, thank you for clearing that up.

[Fedifensor]

Robotics/Traps is not the strongest secondary for just running around and taking out bad guys.  However, it’s wonderful when you have that one tough fight at the end of a mission, and you can setup before the fight starts.  Summon your bots, get your Force Field Generator out, lay down a Trip Mine, Poison Trap, and Caltrops, followed by a Triage Beacon.  Then, summon Seeker Drones in the midst of your foes as you order your robots to attack, and lay down an Acid Mortar.

 

After all that, if you’re still losing the fight, use Detonator.  If you still can’t win...stop fighting things +6 or more levels to you.

[ParaBruce]

Is there a short list of secondaries that are particularly handy if you want to do AV/GM hunting? Or, conversely, secondaries that are particularly anti-handy?

 

[Chaos String]

When people say "-regen in traps."  - what does that mean? I do not really see any powers that does something about regen.

 

Sorry for being a newb, i most likely missed something.

 

And what is the best powers in traps?

 

-regen is our shorthand for a regeneration debuff.  It really isn't very important in normal solo play unless your solo play involves Archvillains, whose health pools are large enough that their passive regeneration presents a significant obstacle to bringing them down.

[Adeon Hawkwood]

And what is the best powers in traps?

The key powers that you want from Traps are Triage Beacon, Acid Mortar, Force Field Generator, Poison Trap and Seeker Drones (plus of course you have to take Web Grenade). Caltrops is nice to have but not critical for Masterminds. Trip Mine and Detonator are both kind of neat but generally aren't worth it for a Mastermind since you want to rely on your pets for damage.

 

Of the five I listed Triage Beacon and Force Field Generator are your main damage mitigation tools for keeping you and your pets alive. Poison Trap is best used by jumping into the middle of a group and placing it there to maximize the debuffs and holds. Seeker Drones are another nice Debuff/Control and as a bonus can be used to eat an alpha strike. Acid Mortar is there to debuff resistance so your pets hit harder.

[josevega1270.]

Well i ran Bots/Dark before the shut down and just rebuilt him and posted in the forums, he was great soling and in groups.. Binds really help not to get in everyone's way like sometimes they do...

[Narninian5]

I don't understand why FF is always brought up but never cold. You should still be able to cap defenses for your pets despite the 3.75% difference in the toggle (the shields are the same values, apart from fire/cold) but you have powerful debuffs, instead of dubious value knockback abilities.

 

I'm not saying its necessarily stronger than dark/time/ (and I don't know much about posion/traps) but if FF is on the table I would strongly consider Cold instead.

[Lazarillo]

I don't understand why FF is always brought up but never cold.

Prolly 'cause /Cold is an i25 thing and a lot of people missed it because it doesn't stand out quite as much as /Rad or /Kin?

[zimz]

And what is the best powers in traps?

The key powers that you want from Traps are Triage Beacon, Acid Mortar, Force Field Generator, Poison Trap and Seeker Drones (plus of course you have to take Web Grenade). Caltrops is nice to have but not critical for Masterminds. Trip Mine and Detonator are both kind of neat but generally aren't worth it for a Mastermind since you want to rely on your pets for damage.

 

Of the five I listed Triage Beacon and Force Field Generator are your main damage mitigation tools for keeping you and your pets alive. Poison Trap is best used by jumping into the middle of a group and placing it there to maximize the debuffs and holds. Seeker Drones are another nice Debuff/Control and as a bonus can be used to eat an alpha strike. Acid Mortar is there to debuff resistance so your pets hit harder.

 

Thank you for this very good write-up.

[StrikerFox]

I don't understand why FF is always brought up but never cold.

Prolly 'cause /Cold is an i25 thing and a lot of people missed it because it doesn't stand out quite as much as /Rad or /Kin?

 

I think it's more because nobody likes seeing this junk, non-stop, for hours on end.

 

[Scyris]

I am going to be starting a char on here and I been debating on a MM, I usually ran dark in the live server, but might try something different this time.

[Clave Dark 5]

I've run a couple of Bot MMs and found Dark to be pretty great for Tar Patch alone.  Really, far as I know, Bot/Anything is a good combo.  I tend to make choices for what fits my idea of the character, so maybe don't listen to me,  but I don't think you can go far wrong with any of them.