An Update from The Homecoming Team

[Abraxus]

25 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

One thing is certain. If this deal goes through, there are people in-game that should be ready for a visit from the Trademark Police.

If that is the worst thing that happens as a result of a successful deal, that will be a good thing.  As much as I am hoping for it to be sucessful, I don't look forward to how the other servers might be treated from a legal perspective, if this one were legitimized. 

Don't get me wrong.  I'd love to see all of those players back here, but I'd rather it be of their own volition, rather than having no choice, and despising us for it.  I'm guessing some would just not play anymore because of whatever reasons they had for splitting off in the first place. 

[Myrmidon]

13 minutes ago, Abraxus said:

If that is the worst thing that happens as a result of a successful deal, that will be a good thing.  As much as I am hoping for it to be sucessful, I don't look forward to how the other servers might be treated from a legal perspective, if this one were legitimized. 

Don't get me wrong.  I'd love to see all of those players back here, but I'd rather it be of their own volition, rather than having no choice, and despising us for it.  I'm guessing some would just not play anymore because of whatever reasons they had for splitting off in the first place. 

While my usual approach to this type of thing is “The Lion doesn’t concern itself with the opinions of the sheep”, I have to agree with you on this one. I read the chatter on some of those other servers (purely for entertainment purposes) and see that those players are as passionate about the game as any of us, so let them have their their way.

[MunkiLord]

2 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

While my usual approach to this type of thing is “The Lion doesn’t concern itself with the opinions of the sheep”, I have to agree with you on this one. I read the chatter on some of those other servers (purely for entertainment purposes) and see that those players are as passionate about the game as any of us, so let them have their their way.

Is your avatar from Boston Legal or some other show/movie that actress was in?

[Myrmidon]

1 minute ago, MunkiLord said:

Is your avatar from Boston Legal or some other show/movie that actress was in?

Boston Legal is where I believe that photo would be from. You have a good eye.

[MunkiLord]

I love that show!

[Freedom Frank]

5 hours ago, Abraxus said:

If that is the worst thing that happens as a result of a successful deal, that will be a good thing.  As much as I am hoping for it to be sucessful, I don't look forward to how the other servers might be treated from a legal perspective, if this one were legitimized. 

Don't get me wrong.  I'd love to see all of those players back here, but I'd rather it be of their own volition, rather than having no choice, and despising us for it.  I'm guessing some would just not play anymore because of whatever reasons they had for splitting off in the first place. 

Well, worst case scenario they just have to keep popping up new servers.  As it is, if the HC negotiations are indeed the thing that kept NCSoft from sending out C&Ds in the first place, those servers got a nice benefit there.  Gave them time to solidify as communities to survive any attempts at purging.

[Perma-Newbie]

14 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

One thing is certain. If this deal goes through, there are people in-game that should be ready for a visit from the Trademark Police.

Yup.  Once Homecoming becomes an Official Thing, I believe everyone should just assume that in the deal will be "Homecoming GMs will be required to enforce known trademarks."

 

I've mentioned it a few times.  I'm actually kind of surprised they haven't had that warning go out already as a "Be Prepared for this!" to get people ready for it.

[Perma-Newbie]

13 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

Boston Legal is where I believe that photo would be from. You have a good eye.

 

13 hours ago, MunkiLord said:

I love that show!

That's where my forum name comes from.  My sister started the joke that my memory is so bad I probably have "the Mad Cow" and since I didn't get it she told me to watch Boston Legal.  I love James Spader and William Shatner so I can't understand how I had never watched the show before.  One quick binge later and my Steam and forum names are now "MadCow"

[_NOPE_]

5 minutes ago, MadCow99 said:

Yup.  Once Homecoming becomes an Official Thing, I believe everyone should just assume that in the deal will be "Homecoming GMs will be required to enforce known trademarks."

 

I've mentioned it a few times.  I'm actually kind of surprised they haven't had that warning go out already as a "Be Prepared for this!" to get people ready for it.

I'm not surprised. The HC team seems to want to set expectations low RE: "The Ongoing Negotiations" in order not to get anyone's hopes up. It's frustrating, but it's understandable. They don't want to insinuate anything that they can't promise.

[Lunchmoney]

1 hour ago, MadCow99 said:

Yup.  Once Homecoming becomes an Official Thing, I believe everyone should just assume that in the deal will be "Homecoming GMs will be required to enforce known trademarks."

 

I've mentioned it a few times.  I'm actually kind of surprised they haven't had that warning go out already as a "Be Prepared for this!" to get people ready for it.

Why? They didnt back in Live days.

[Abraxus]

After the Marvel suite was settled, they actually did police rip-off, and "too close to not be questionable" toons, pretty aggressively.  I don't if, over the years that followed that folks just stopped doing it for the most part, or if they just relaxed about it, but I didn't notice it so much in the latter years, at least to the extent that they no longer felt the need to talk about it in-game, or on the forums so much.

[Xeres]

Good thing there's 6 costume slots.

[Remidi]

I remember warning a few just-out-of-the-tutorial newbies that they needed to start a new character.  I never reported any of them, but they were so blatant I knew somebody would.

 

"Dude, your name and costume make it obvious you're Batman." 

"Yeah, but who will notice?" 

"Um, I noticed." 

"Oh.  Right."

 

 

[ShardWarrior]

32 minutes ago, Remidi said:

I remember warning a few just-out-of-the-tutorial newbies that they needed to start a new character.  I never reported any of them, but they were so blatant I knew somebody would.

 

"Dude, your name and costume make it obvious you're Batman." 

"Yeah, but who will notice?" 

"Um, I noticed." 

"Oh.  Right."

 

 

To this I would ask how close is "too close" and/or "too obvious"?  I think any comic aficionado can very easily draw parallels between any comic character to those we can make in CoH.  For instance, any Mutant Claws/Regen scrapper I roll is essentially the same as Wolverine.  Any Natural SS/INV tank with Laser Beam Eyes is a Superman/Kryptonian ripoff.  Where is the line drawn?  The costume editor and power choices we have are more often than not leading toward a "close" match to any existing copyrighted superhero.  If you want to stop any potential "frivolous" lawsuits, may as well go ahead and restrict everyone to 1 costume and 1 or 2 power choices that are not "too close to be obvious".

 

 

 

 

 

[Myrmidon]

1 hour ago, Xeres said:

Good thing there's 6 costume slots.

Actually, there’s 10 costume slots.

[GM Capocollo]

19 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

To this I would ask how close is "too close" and/or "too obvious"?  I think any comic aficionado can very easily draw parallels between any comic character to those we can make in CoH.  For instance, any Mutant Claws/Regen scrapper I roll is essentially the same as Wolverine.  Any Natural SS/INV tank with Laser Beam Eyes is a Superman/Kryptonian ripoff.  Where is the line drawn?  The costume editor and power choices we have are more often than not leading toward a "close" match to any existing copyrighted superhero.  If you want to stop any potential "frivolous" lawsuits, may as well go ahead and restrict everyone to 1 costume and 1 or 2 power choices that are not "too close to be obvious".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it

[Perma-Newbie]

Homages were always fine.  But if you literally made Wolverine and named yourself WulverineXX you were 4-xure gonna get whapped with the generic bat as soon as a GM saw you.  Every time.

 

It was sort of a game for some people to see what level they could make it to before they got Generic-Batted.

[Abraxus]

Universe forbid that we actually exercise a little self-discipline, and not go beyond homages, and straight to out-and-out copy.  I have an homage character, but I made enough differences that I think it could be fairly judged as such.  But, I have seen a lot of toons out there, whose creators obviously used the freedom, creativity, and the power of the character creator to do darn near perfect copies of comic book characters.  Most of them didn't even bother to alter the name, unless someone else already got it.  Then it was some cute variation which was as close as they could get. 

I am more in favor of the multitudes of original designs that this many costume options afford.  But, to each his own.  If the day comes when the "generic bat" comes out again, I'm sure it will be used quite a bit in the early days, and less so as things go on.  That's pretty much expected.

[PaxArcana]

3 hours ago, Lunchmoney said:

Why? They didnt back in Live days.

Yes, they most certainly did enforce known trademarks .... when they became aware of an infringement (meaning, when another player reported the offending character).

 

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

For instance, any Mutant Claws/Regen scrapper I roll is essentially the same as Wolverine. 

Including Costume and Name?  Especially the Costume, mind.

[Lunchmoney]

Do you have evidence for that? Statements from persons affected? Copies is letters/emails from the devs to offending persons? Anything?

In all the years I played several of my friends made characters that were obvious ripoffs and no one came knocking. Yes, I know that's anecdotal, but it's all I've got right now.

 

edit: this isnt meant to be a confrontation question. Genuinely want to know if anyone has any proof of the devs going after offending players?

Edited August 16, 2019 by Lunchmoney

[Remidi]

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

To this I would ask how close is "too close" and/or "too obvious"?  I think any comic aficionado can very easily draw parallels between any comic character to those we can make in CoH.  For instance, any Mutant Claws/Regen scrapper I roll is essentially the same as Wolverine.  Any Natural SS/INV tank with Laser Beam Eyes is a Superman/Kryptonian ripoff.  Where is the line drawn?  The costume editor and power choices we have are more often than not leading toward a "close" match to any existing copyrighted superhero.  If you want to stop any potential "frivolous" lawsuits, may as well go ahead and restrict everyone to 1 costume and 1 or 2 power choices that are not "too close to be obvious".

 

 

 

 

 

Well, this was obviously a long time ago, but the costume was as close as a newbie could get - I think this was still in the no capes until L20 days - and the name was something screamingly obvious like Bat Guy.  And for those asking if they actually enforced it, I can recall seeing genericed characters running past on several occasions.

 

ETA: I saw lots of people get away with the other rule against characters based on something offensive.  I saw toons named after porn stars, sex acts, and once, Hitler.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Remidi

[Abraxus]

33 minutes ago, Lunchmoney said:

Do you have evidence for that? Statements from persons affected? Copies is letters/emails from the devs to offending persons? Anything?

In all the years I played several of my friends made characters that were obvious ripoffs and no one came knocking. Yes, I know that's anecdotal, but it's all I've got right now.

 

edit: this isnt meant to be a confrontation question. Genuinely want to know if anyone has any proof of the devs going after offending players?

Just means that nobody reported them, and the Devs never saw them.  If they had, there would have been no letter, no warning.  Just their character turned into "generic man" for them to go to Icon, and do it again.  They might have told them after the fact, and gave them a free token to soften the blow.  But, it was done. 

I don't believe it is happening yet.  This is all conjecture on what will happen if this deal with NCSoft goes through.  It could very well be one of the conditions, but nobody knows for sure.  Easy way not to have to be concerned is, don't do it.  Then, if it does become "law", it won't affect any of your toons. 🙂

Edited August 16, 2019 by Abraxus

[MunkiLord]

I once made a tank named The Schtick with the costume as close to the Tick as possible and had a ton of binds set up with some of my favorite quotes from the cartoon. Don't enjoy playing tanks, so he didn't get much use. But he was a fun character to play.

[ShardWarrior]

1 hour ago, PaxArcana said:

Including Costume and Name?  Especially the Costume, mind. 

Again, where is the distinction made?  Would it not be ok for the costume to be yellow and blue, but ok if it were pink and red?  What if the character were tall instead of short with red hair instead of black?  Is it ok to have a uber-muscular green skinned SS/INV tanker with purple pants so long as it isn't named Hulk or any synonym of the word "hulk"?

 

At the time, I believe it was prudent to err on the side of caution due to the Marvel lawsuit.  I'm not so sure that applies anymore or whether or not it is as strictly enforced today.  There are readily available free skins of copyrighted characters for just about every game you can imagine all over the internet - from Minecraft to the SIMS to WWE Wrestling  - you name it.   Players are winning costume contests here in HC based on "homages".   There are a lot of people doing it.   So do we genercize everyone?  Based on what criteria?  Where is the line drawn?

 

Trying to determine where that the "thin line" is is not so simple.

Edited August 16, 2019 by ShardWarrior

[PaxArcana]

9 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Again, where is the distinction made? 

There is no thin line.  There is no exact, razor-edged point dividing "homage" from "copycat".  The simple rule is, the closer you get to being a direct copy, the greater the risk that you get TOO close."

 

And just like trying to "thread the needle" between obstacles with a high-speed drone ... you won't know you were too close, until you clip one of those obstacles with a wingtip or rotor and plummet to the ground in pieces.  IOW, until it's too late.

A properly made homage, will look for something significant to specifically be able to point to, and say "I made a good faith effort to differentiate my homage from the original-source character".

9 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

There are readily available free skins of copyrighted characters for just about every game you can imagine all over the internet

Just because many other people are doing something wrong, does not make it become not-wrong.  And just because it is easy to follow suit yourself, also does not make it suddenly okay.

9 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Is it ok to have a uber-muscular green skinned SS/INV tanker with purple pants so long as it isn't named Hulk or any synonym of the word "hulk"?

Is he bare-chested and barefoot?  Is he played as a simple-minded rage machine / berzerker?  Does he have just a wild hairdo (in green) ...?

 

If the answers to both of those are "yes", then it's definitely not okay, and is a copycat.

 

If, OTOH, the character is green, has purple pants, wears a white tank-top and combat boots, has a white mohawk, and his backstory is a carefully-crafted "not quite the same but you get what I'm hinting at" thing?  Then he's okay, and is an homage.

Edited August 16, 2019 by PaxArcana