An Update from The Homecoming Team

[honoroit]

Please don't load it with loot boxes.

 

Take a salary, put it into donations, run it as a non-profit, and still get paid?

[Uruare]

From my position of knowing exactly nothing about the state of relations with NCSoft or what NCSoft's disposition towards Homecoming is, all I can do is hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

 

I came into this knowing that it might be a very temporary visitation to the only MMO that I ever truly loved, and even if it all disappeared tomorrow, at least I got a chance to see it all again after all these years.  

 

Won't lie; I've spent most of my time here saying goodbye and taking the opportunity for closure for what it is, and it's been a fun and enjoyable process.    If an axe doesn't fall, that'd be great.

 

But if it does, this time, I'll be better able to walk away without feeling like there was so much left undone and unfinished.

 

So no matter how these negotiations turn out, I'm grateful to the Homecoming team for the opportunity to have done this.   And I'll look forward to seeing what comes next.

[Omega-202]

7 hours ago, TonyV said:

Option D) None of the above...

 

Seriously, all I ask is to give us a little more time and wait until we can give some more details before deciding that it's all doom and gloom. I promise that if I didn't think this was going to be a good thing, I wouldn't be involved in it like I am. I'm not oblivious to the fact that at this point, my own reputation is inextricably tied to the outcome of what we're working on, and I'm not eager to come out of this with everyone thinking, "Man, Tony's an idiot." (Although I also recognize that a 5%-10% "hate rate" ain't so bad, so an occasional "Tony's an idiot" post doesn't get to me...)

 

Anyway, my point is that what we're working on isn't a "best deal we can get" situation. It is, in my opinion, a genuinely good deal. I'm trying my best to not get everyone overly worked up because nothing is inked yet and until it is I'll have a healthy dose of low-level paranoia. But I also think that as things are going, when we can talk more, a lot of skeptical people will come away pleasantly surprised.

I just hope you all understand the situation you're in and who you are dealing with.  You're hobbyists negotiating with a multinational corporation with multiple layers of legal counsel.  I don't want to be doom and gloom but for all of your sakes, I hope you've looked into legal representation of your own.  

[Skyhawke]

Doooooooooom!!!

 

Oh hey, servers are up...gotta go.  Um...doom?  Kay bye. (runs off to kill Skulls)

[Turboski]

looking forward to hearing more

[Cinnder]

Good luck folks, and thanks for your continued efforts.

 

If this deal works out and City of Titans goes live, it'll be nice to be in a Choice of Two Goods situation instead of the Two Evils I always seem to find myself stuck between irl.

 

I'm also quite curious to know what sort of future development will happen here if the deal is signed.  Will we ever get new missions, zones, and/or power sets?

[_NOPE_]

@Jimmy, a few questions that I have concerns about:

1. If/when HC becomes legitimate, does that mean that NCSoft and/or HC will start to "go after" any other public servers that exist? Or will they be left alone to continue what they are doing?
2. What becomes of Ourodev and other independent developers in that case as well? Will they still be free to view/distribute/talk about code? Will they be left alone in a "gray area", or will they be actively pursued and tamped down?
3. Why does ANY "secrecy" exist in the negotiations at all? I mean, I understand that negotiations are on-going and may bear zero fruit, but why is there any secrecy in the process whatsoever? Why not just say "we've proposed X, and NCSoft may or may not take it", or "NCSoft has proposed Y, and we're considering our options". I just don't get what the purpose of the cloud is... is there a legal NDA that you're under? I don't know how the legal system works, but if there's an NDA, can you even tell us that you're under an NDA?

 

Other than that, I'm hopeful, but I know that the game will never be taken away from ME again, at least. I'm confident in that...

Edited August 8, 2019 by The Philotic Knight

[Yoru-hime]

Watching with hope.

 

Though we'll hold off on scheduling the ticker-tape parade through the streets of Steel Canyon until the ink is dry. 😉

[GM Capocollo]

I'm not privy to any of the negotiations, so I don't know anything about 1 or 2.

For 3, I think it's just a simple desire not to get people's hopes up or provide grist for the game of telephone if a particular plan falls through or gets modified.  In an environment like this, any kind of speculation or prediction from the people in charge gets taken as a promise.

[DarkEye86]

At this point and all of the comments here and in the discord I have read, I have come to the conclusion the HC team should have waited, until they had something. I get a headache from all this "DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM" talk.

[Cinnder]

For 3 I'd say that's how corporate negotiations work.  If our side were to disclose all the details of the discussion, I expect a company like NCSoft would find that unprofessional, and it could actually mess up the negotiations.

[Pie-ro]

If NC soft gets involved in homecoming in any way so many people will jump ship to rebirth or godforbid coxg.

 

There's no way NC soft touches this game again. They are the enemy.

 

This will kill homecoming

[_NOPE_]

2 minutes ago, Pie-ro said:

If NC soft gets involved in homecoming in any way so many people will jump ship to rebirth or godforbid coxg.

 

There's no way NC soft touches this game again. They are the enemy.

 

This will kill homecoming

That's... not a helpful attitude. They are the legal owners of the property, at least until they transfer that ownership. Calling NCSoft "the enemy" is counterproductive to legitimizing the return of the game.

 

If you want to exist in a world where the game always and perpetually exists in a "black market" situation, then feel free to maintain that attitude. But, if you want a chance to be able to play the game open and honestly without having to look over your back, or your server hosts looking over their back, I plead you to reconsider that attitude.

[TonyV]

10 minutes ago, The Philotic Knight said:

@Jimmy, a few questions that I have concerns about:

1. If/when HC becomes legitimate, does that mean that NCSoft and/or HC will start to "go after" any other public servers that exist? Or will they be left alone to continue what they are doing?
2. What becomes of Ourodev and other independent developers in that case as well? Will they still be free to view/distribute/talk about code? Will they be left alone in a "gray area", or will they be actively pursued and tamped down?
3. Why does ANY "secrecy" exist in the negotiations at all? I mean, I understand that negotiations are on-going and may bear zero fruit, but why is there any secrecy in the process whatsoever? Why not just say "we've proposed X, and NCSoft may or may not take it", or "NCSoft has proposed Y, and we're considering our options". I just don't get what the purpose of the cloud is... is there a legal NDA that you're under? I don't know how the legal system works, but if there's an NDA, can you even tell us that you're under an NDA?

 

Other than that, I'm hopeful, but I know that the game will never be taken away from ME again, at least. I'm confident in that...

 

1 and 2: I don't know, that's not up to us and I can't speak on any of those other group's or NCSoft's behalf, only our own.

 

As for 3, if everyone knew all the nitty-gritty details, it would probably be a bit anticlimactic. There's nothing particularly sensational or scandalous happening in secret. It's just nailing down details to try to make this a reality, details that might change between now and then. We just don't need a committee of thousands weighing in on what's a must, what's a can't, what's outrageous, what's reasonable, etc. That's not to say that we're ignoring everyone; we definitely have kept our fingers on the pulse of the community and it's been a huge factor in what we're working on.

 

Last but not least, we don't want to say "we proposed X, Y, and Z" and then later have to tell everyone we didn't get Z. All people will hear is, "We didn't get Z," and that's what would be plastered all over, turning something really positive into a negative. That might sound like a cop-out, but admit it... This is the Internet. You know that's what would happen.

 

In short, we want what we tell everyone to be accurate and reliable. To be honest, the only reason we're posting what we did is because we're genuinely excited and because if this goes through, we don't want to get down the road and spring on everyone that we've been "secretly" working together for some time. ("ZOMG conspiracy!") I've consistently asked the question in our talks, "What can we tell the community?" I've always said I'll be as transparent with everyone as I can, and that hasn't changed.

[BlastLord]

This is really good news to hear.

[Skyhawke]

37 minutes ago, DarkEye86 said:

At this point and all of the comments here and in the discord I have read, I have come to the conclusion the HC team should have waited, until they had something. I get a headache from all this "DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM" talk.

 

And now all I can think about is this:

[justicebeliever]

27 minutes ago, Pie-ro said:

If NC soft gets involved in homecoming in any way so many people will jump ship to rebirth or godforbid coxg.

 

There's no way NC soft touches this game again. They are the enemy.

 

This will kill homecoming

NCSoft helped make the game a reality...Without them, who knows if Cryptic would have gotten the game public...

 

NCSoft kept this game a reality...When Cryptic wanted/had to dump CoH to work on other related projects, NCSoft bought them out and maintained the game

 

NCSoft didn't burn this game to the ground...We all know the MMORPG's that were so nerfed and changed by their owners that they no longer resemble the awesome game that you first liked.  NCSoft just shut down, but the game they shut down was solid...

 

NCSoft didn't declare war on you...they didn't shut the game down to get at those evil Americans.  They felt it wasn't in their best interests to continue it.  You can disagree with them that it would have been in their best interests (remember, your best interests aren't their problem).  But if you disagree, that just means they were foolish, not evil.  Not everything is a Nemesis plot.

 

NCSoft didn't treat Homecoming as the enemy...they could just shut this down with a simple C&D order.  It wouldn't too hard to do the same for Rebirth or COXG.  Just because they can't go after everybody, doesn't mean they couldn't send the message to the most prolific servers

 

I don't work for NCSoft. I don't play ANY of their other games, I don't own stock...I'm just not a fan personalizing things to the degree that they become toxic to you and the community.  Think of how happier you'll be if you let all that anger go...

[Abraxus]

I feel for the Homecoming team in this situation.  You are damned if you do, and damned if you don't, with regards to attempting to be as transparent as possible, but folks reacting to what is shared with FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt).  Perhaps we can try to actually wait until we know the facts in their entirety before running for the hills?  It's understandable to be anxious about it, but we are all adults here, and we have all dealt with worse real-life situations.  So, let's keep a little perspective, and assume good intentions here.  Can we?  Perhaps?

Edited August 8, 2019 by Abraxus

[Widower]

2 minutes ago, Abraxus said:

I feel for the Homecoming team in this situation.  You are damned if you do, and damned if you don't, with regards to attempting to be as transparent as possible, but folks reacting to what is shared with FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt).  Perhaps we can try to actually wait until we know the facts in their entirety before running for the hills?  It's understandable to be anxious about it, but we are all adults here, and we have all dealt with worse real-life situations.  So, let's keep a little perspective, and assume good intentions here.  Can we?  Perhaps?

I'm sorry, Abraxus, but that sounds an awful lot like logic and reasoning, and that's not allowed here. Please move along. /s

[_NOPE_]

Every time I hear someone mentions FUD, my mind IMMEDIATELY goes to this:

 

 

And I laugh inside and can't take it seriously.

Edited August 8, 2019 by The Philotic Knight

[DarkEye86]

1 minute ago, GM Widower said:

I'm sorry, Abraxus, but that sounds an awful lot like logic and reasoning, and that's not allowed here. Please move along. /s

I am siding with Widower here, logic and reasoning it not allowed, please raise your arms into the air, run in circles and scream: "We are doomed!". Then you are allowed to stay.

*cough* so excuse me

 

*starts running in circles with raised hands and screams*DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

[BlastLord]

3 minutes ago, GM Widower said:

I'm sorry, Abraxus, but that sounds an awful lot like logic and reasoning, and that's not allowed here. Please move along. /s

I to Agree with Widower cause logic and reasoning is not allowed.

[_NOPE_]

1 minute ago, DarkEye86 said:

I am siding with Widower here, logic and reasoning it not allowed, please raise your arms into the air, run in circles and scream: "We are doomed!". Then you are allowed to stay.

*cough* so excuse me

 

*starts running in circles with raised hands and screams*DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

[Omega-202]

4 minutes ago, Abraxus said:

 So, let's keep a little perspective, and assume good intentions here.  Can we?  Perhaps?

No, because that's not how these things go when corporate legal teams are involved.  There are no good intentions, there's only the corporate interest.  

 

Could corporate interest align with the community's interest?  Sure.  

 

Is it just as or more likely that they came to the negotiating table to get more information (total accounts, active player count, copies of the current HC code, server location, legal name and address of the individuals who are running said servers)?  That information will then go to an internal team who can crunch the numbers on whether it is in the company's bottom line interest to work with the HC team or just relaunch their own legit server i24 server and use the info they gained during "negotiations" to best quash the pirate servers.  

 

The best hope is that they crunch the numbers and find its not profitable to fight the status quo.  

 

I really think it's naive to think there's any "good" intentions here.   I also think its very naive if the HC and TN teams are going into all of this without the backing of one or more lawyers of their own.  You don't ask your gardner to fix your car and you don't ask volunteer programmers to handle a dicey legal situation against a sizable corporation.  

[ShardWarrior]

1 hour ago, The Philotic Knight said:

Why does ANY "secrecy" exist in the negotiations at all? I mean, I understand that negotiations are on-going and may bear zero fruit, but why is there any secrecy in the process whatsoever? Why not just say "we've proposed X, and NCSoft may or may not take it", or "NCSoft has proposed Y, and we're considering our options". I just don't get what the purpose of the cloud is... is there a legal NDA that you're under? I don't know how the legal system works, but if there's an NDA, can you even tell us that you're under an NDA? 

Are legal negotiations generally available for all the world to see?

 

Personally, I don't think the general populace needs to know the specifics here - I can only imagine the myriad of posts from armchair lawyers and Google law experts would make.  No thank you.