Enable Incarnate Shifts on Apex/Tin Mage

[Ferrous_Sapien]

Title. The tf's are arguably "incarnate content", so I feel it makes sense to get your full +3 on them. By no means critical, but it would be nice. 🙂

[Vanden]

I kinda like how they are now. They aren't too challenging, and having at most one level shift means players who've only just started down the incarnate path can contribute nearly as much as a player with tier 4 powers in all six slots.

[BlastLord]

Those 2 TFs are fine as they are.

[EmperorSteele]

I actually kinda agree. On one hand, it IS incarnate content, where everything is level 54 and anyone not alpha shifted gets -4 levels anyway, so the inverse should be allowed. On the other hand, it's the opening salvos of the Praetorian war, and "canonically speaking", we probably shouldn't be that powerful at "that point". The fact that we have the abilities should be enough of an equalizer.

[krj12]

I'm opposed to any change that encourages elitism.   Already seeing people advertise for friggin ITFs "incarnates only please".

 

 

[Voldine]

23 minutes ago, krj12 said:

I'm opposed to any change that encourages elitism.   Already seeing people advertise for friggin ITFs "incarnates only please".

 

 

Well, to be fair they could be wanting to speedrun it and see just how fast they can go with incarnate powers maxxed out.

 

I remember speed ITF's being a thing even on Virtue, so, yeah. That's not entirely unreasonable at all.

[krj12]

7 hours ago, Voldine said:

Well, to be fair they could be wanting to speedrun it and see just how fast they can go with incarnate powers maxxed out.

 

I remember speed ITF's being a thing even on Virtue, so, yeah. That's not entirely unreasonable at all.

I remember running speed ITFs as well, I started quite a few.  But I don't remember saying "level 50s only" either.  

 

 

[Razor Cure]

1 hour ago, krj12 said:

I remember running speed ITFs as well, I started quite a few.  But I don't remember saying "level 50s only" either.  

 

 

Yes, how DARE the person forming the team..take what they want. Outrageous. If I am doing a level 50 TF and forming it myself, if you aint 50, you aint coming. Seen enough ITFs in particular with 2-3 people doing ALL teh work, and the rest, all relative lowbies, basically just dying or hiding.

[krj12]

1 hour ago, Razor Cure said:

Yes, how DARE the person forming the team..take what they want. Outrageous. If I am doing a level 35 TF and forming it myself, if you aint 50, you aint coming. Seen enough ITFs in particular with 2-3 people doing ALL teh work, and the rest, all relative lowbies, basically just dying or hiding.

There, fixed it for you.  :)

 

 

[Voldine]

43 minutes ago, krj12 said:

1 hour ago, Razor Cure said:

Yes, how DARE the person forming the team..take what they want. Outrageous. If I am doing a level 35-50 TF and forming it myself, if you aint 50, you aint coming. Seen enough ITFs in particular with 2-3 people doing ALL teh work, and the rest, all relative lowbies, basically just dying or hiding.

There, fixed it for you.  🙂

 

 

Fixed your fix to reflect the original intent of the comment: that most likely being to reflect that the TF caps out at 50 despite becoming available at 35. You know quite well that the ITF and LGTF, along with a couple others, aren't subject to the same restrictive 5 effective levels before forcing you to exemplar down as the lower-level TF's like Positron, Citadel, and Synapse.

[krj12]

19 minutes ago, Voldine said:

Fixed your fix to reflect the original intent of the comment: that most likely being to reflect that the TF caps out at 50 despite becoming available at 35. You know quite well that the ITF and LGTF, along with a couple others, aren't subject to the same restrictive 5 effective levels before forcing you to exemplar down as the lower-level TF's like Positron, Citadel, and Synapse.

 

Yes, I'm quite aware of that.  I'm also aware that it's unnecessary to put such high restrictions on who joins your team, when the TF was created for level 35s.   You can certainly do it, but you're not going to convince me that it's right. 

But,  my original point was that if you open up this particular TF to having level shifts, you will get the same thing - "It's my TF team and I'll invite who I want, and I'm not inviting anyone who isn't level shifted already, because they slow me down and are just "dying or hiding"".    And the people who the TF was intended for, non shifted, will have a tougher time finding groups.    I don't think that's good overall for the game,  so we'll just have to agree to disagree.  

 

 

[Voldine]

1 minute ago, krj12 said:

 

Yes, I'm quite aware of that.  I'm also aware that it's unnecessary to put such high restrictions on who joins your team, when the TF was created for level 35s.   You can certainly do it, but you're not going to convince me that it's right. 

But,  my original point was that if you open up this particular TF to having level shifts, you will get the same thing - "It's my TF team and I'll invite who I want, and I'm not inviting anyone who isn't level shifted already, because they slow me down and are just "dying or hiding"".    And the people who the TF was intended for, non shifted, will have a tougher time finding groups.    I don't think that's good overall for the game,  so we'll just have to agree to disagree.  

 

 

The TF already has level shifting in it, in the base design, except mostly in curse/debuff form.

 

I helped beta test it, and I remember the PAIN of being shifted down four levels for it. Over seven years later and I know that I am NOT eager to experience it without having even a baseline alpha slotted, nevermind a +1 level shifting alpha. 

[ryuplaneswalker]

7 minutes ago, krj12 said:

I'm also aware that it's unnecessary to put such high restrictions on who joins your team, when the TF was created for level 35s. 

It doesn't help that the permanent level shift is incentivizing running at +1 or higher so that anyone sidekicked is automatically at a -2 to everything, bringing someone not 50 to an ITF or LGTF was never an issue until the Alpha shift came around, There is a difference between someone saying "You shouldn't play that way ever!" and "We shouldn't actively push people into playing in that fashion." 

 

As for The Trial shifts in Apex/Tin mage..do we really need that? These things are face roll enough with just +1 shifts, the only remotely "hard" parts are the ones that aren't very well designed which is mostly the Hyrda Sewers and parts of Battle Maiden. If you add 2 levels to everyone these TFs will be doable in 10 minutes total.

[Razor Cure]

3 hours ago, krj12 said:

There, fixed it for you.  🙂

 

 

Yeah...no you didnt. Maybe you are confusing how you run an itf, with how I do? SInce you had no trouble at all accusing me of starting a lvl 35 one, with lvl 50 team mates. You know what assuming does, right?

Edited August 13, 2019 by Razor Cure

[Burnt Toast]

It's not needed - as long as everyone has their alpha slotted I have no issues. Do I prefer people to be +1 - yep, but will take anyone who is just alpha slotted. 

[MunkiLord]

I have a compromise! The enemies are +3 to whoever the highest level shifted player is. That way players can have their +3 level shifts, and the TF gets tougher as a result. I solve problems, all the problems.

[ZeeHero]

If people want a record speed run I dont mind if they want incarnates or 50s only in an ITF or something. The problem comes when that's all people do. as long as theres plenty of runs anyone can join its fine. but people sometimes want to challenge themselves to do the fastest ITF ever, and that requires certain levels of character power and some good support and buffs.