issue 26 Patch Notes for September 10th, 2019

[TheAdjustor]

On 9/10/2019 at 1:47 PM, QuiJon said:

I used to raid hamidon back when you had to clear mitos and the spawn was a mitos for every play in the goo. Honestly I would love it if Hamidon was a challenge again. I don't advocate for it, but I would not care. But I would imagine that this would make the leechers decide not to come and then you would have not the power you needed to kill him with the player population that did show up. So again kind of counter productive change at this point. 

Here is the thing people seem to be trying to find a way to prevent leechers from taking part while allowing "good players" to get in. It isn't gonna work. I played this game sincd like 3 days into original release. The orginal devs were always fighting this fight and never won. No matter what they decided was unintended they would change it and players adapted. Look at Ae farming, at some point if they nerfed that ot the point players found it to be a waste, it wont stop farming it will just move farming back out into the real missions like it was before the AE was around. And then you make changes there that punish everyone not just Farmers. Same thing here. The more changes they make because of random leeching complaints or whatever caused this change (I really don't know what it was, I thought I heard they purposely took the cap off the zones) is just going to punish eventually an unintended population of the game. 

Which is why I ask, why is it so damn important to keep the leechers from earning a reward? This is just like the people that hate power leveling so bad. How or what someone else is doing doesn't prevent you from doing or getting what you want, then why do you care? 

Nailed it. Already seeing Hami Raids just not happening, suspect it will get worse. Most of the people going on about how a hami is done in half an hour aren't considering the time to set up the raid. Getting 50 people into the hive and organized into teams and up to speed takes time, especially since the raids aren't being publicly advertised anymore.

[Foxfyre]

8 minutes ago, TheAdjustor said:

Nailed it. Already seeing Hami Raids just not happening, suspect it will get worse. Most of the people going on about how a hami is done in half an hour aren't considering the time to set up the raid. Getting 50 people into the hive and organized into teams and up to speed takes time, especially since the raids aren't being publicly advertised anymore.

Hami raids still happening every night on Excelsior.  Sometimes in 2 different Hive instances.

[TheAdjustor]

Just now, Foxfyre said:

Hami raids still happening every night on Excelsior.  Sometimes in 2 different Hive instances.

Glad  it's all the servers.

[Apparition]

4 minutes ago, TheAdjustor said:

Glad  it's all the servers.

 

What server do you play on? 

[TheAdjustor]

3 minutes ago, Apparition said:

 

What server do you play on? 

I play on several primarily Indomitable

[lyra]

On 9/10/2019 at 9:32 AM, Leandro said:

 

• Blaster Devices:
  • Targeting Drone and Field Operative were granting double buffs for some of their attributes since last patch. This has been fixed.

  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[SpaceNut]

On 9/12/2019 at 7:01 AM, HeroReborn said:

I'm finding it the GUI messed up after the change. I'm using a 4k monitor, and had previously changed a lot of the window scales etc around to work.

 

- All character windows are scrambled to upper left on first login, and load window options doesn't work (to get back the set up I previously saved).

- Screen shot key no longer seems to copy to clip board (used to be able to press screen shot and then paste into paint or other graphic program).

- Macro text now is white on grey, making it much harder to read. I think it used to black bordered white text)

- Handles for changing tray number on floating trays has almost disappeared. (See tray 4 in screenshot)

- Text has gotten smaller, but font size is still same in settings

- Scroll bars on map window is tiny and hard to grab

- Text on dialogs like supergroup base teleport options (listing zones) has gotten smaller.

- Are the reticles meant to be huge now?

- Unable to scroll all the way down in email (screen shot stops at G, if I click subject and reverse order I can access windfall etc but cant scroll past K )

- Text on IO's seems smaller and harder to read - wasn't great before, but now is extremely hard. Doesn't show well in screen shot, but text on them is tiny. Used to be readable at the same windowscale.

- Text in nav window also smaller though readable

- Subjective: like someone else mentioned, getting headaches and eye strain after a few minutes of play that didn't experience before.

 

 

 

This has to be related to the DPI changes. By forcing the client to do it instead of letting players fix it themselves, so many things are now out of scale and/or the wrong resolution. It looks terrible and nothing I've tried - DPI settings, window scale, font sizes, etc. - has fixed it.

 

It broke something that wasn't broken before!

[swordchucks]

1 hour ago, Foxfyre said:

Hami raids still happening every night on Excelsior. 

Everlasting is still doing nightly Hami raids, though we're still trying to figure out the best/most fair way to handle the fact that about 70 people show up most nights.  The goal is that everyone that wants to run can run at least once and so far we've achieved that... it's just complicated and involves some waiting.

[Subject 22J2]

I had really been enjoying the Hami and MSRs. Seeing 70 people all take off in unison to go handle something is a stand out memory and has been awesome.
The way it had been was nice. I would get home from work and run some missions while waiting for the raid, then scurry over to the Hive when it was nearing start time and join up.
They way it is now is less nice. I get home from work, scurry over to the Hive and sit there doing nothing for an hour to make sure that I do not lose my spot. The only real plus has been that since we have generally had way less than the 200+ people that other servers seem to have had doing this content we have not had trouble dealing with Hami. We just do it the way we have done it most nights.
I have not even seen an MSR since this change as the zone is capped by the time I even get home from work.

[Trademarked Name]

2 hours ago, TheAdjustor said:

Nailed it. Already seeing Hami Raids just not happening, suspect it will get worse. Most of the people going on about how a hami is done in half an hour aren't considering the time to set up the raid. Getting 50 people into the hive and organized into teams and up to speed takes time, especially since the raids aren't being publicly advertised anymore.

I haven't done the Hami on Indom since the cap was reinstated, but mostly because I've had other toon and SG distractions. I may join one this weekend (I'm not volunteering to organize, mind you). But I could be convinced to lead one of the assault teams.

 

[TheAdjustor]

1 minute ago, Rocketeur said:

I haven't done the Hami on Indom since the cap was reinstated, but mostly because I've had other toon and SG distractions. I may join one this weekend (I'm not volunteering to organize, mind you). But I could be convinced to lead one of the assault teams.

 

You probably want to try and coordinate with Plumpkln he was the force behind doing classic Hami on Indom.

[QuiJon]

3 hours ago, Foxfyre said:

Hami raids still happening every night on Excelsior.  Sometimes in 2 different Hive instances.

I don't know about what happened Wednesday but since this change went into effect, the raids on excelsior went from being raids that commonly had 3-4 leagues to having Hive 1 that successfully raided hamidon with 1 league, Hive 2 be a spectacular failure of a raid because all the people that really knew what they were doing were in hive 1 and I don't know if any other hives even attempted it that first night. The second night I was not able to get online for so I don't know what happened. And last night I did get on line. I logged in 30 minutes early to an already full hive 1. I was in hive 2, stuck around waiting the population of hive 2 never got more then about 10 players, most logged in saw they were locked out of hive one and left and didn't return. 

So as I said would happen there are two possibilities, that more people will learn to raid properly and more raids over all would happen, or the population would revert back to a few months ago where there were about 1.5 leagues of players every night, and now that the half a league can not get into hive one to take part in the event, they are locked out of game content. 

I have never said I didn't think the raid populations were based on the idea of how easy people felt it was to get rewarded when 200 people were showing up for a raid. What I had a lack of faith in is that those same people would choose to learn to raid and run raids to make up for the inability to join the larger groups and not just go back to doing what they did before. And I think that is what is happening, only now with the caps it is preventing those that are wanting to come, and are willing to come even when it means fighting the longer fight from even being able to take part at all. That IMO is an effect that is not worth preventing the leechers or whatever you want to call them from taking part. Probably because yes I am one of those people that would come no matter what. But when not enough people even come to attempt to run a second raid a good 15-20 people a night are getting locked out of content simply because someone got a hair up their ass about how easy it was. And rather then just putting real diminishing returns on it like a regular TF or capping how many rewards you can take per 20 hours or whatever that would solve the problem of farming it at no end, they choose to lock people out of doing it. It was a bad remedy for a stupid made up problem. 

[Profit]

For you guys that are overwhelmed by the hami strategy. I have attached a popmenu I made way back when for leading. Feel free to load it up and use it, modify it, whatever you need out of it. It can very nearly walk you through a raid on it's own. Also, here is a guide to hami raiding for a nice overall picture of how the raid runs. Remember, once everyone is versed in the strategy, these raids shouldn't take more than 10 minutes once hami spawns.

 

 

hami.mnu

[Profit]

2 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

The second night I was not able to get online for so I don't know what happened.

I lead the raid in Hive 2 the second night. There was a double bloom because people weren't listening to instructions and tried to zerg after the first mito round went down. But, most of those people stuck around to clean up the double bloom and were rewarded with a successful raid. It did take some time, but they did great, and I hope many learned to keep request open and to listen to the raid leader.

 

As I told them that night, just be glad it wasn't a yellow dawn. Imagine a yellow mito spawning for every single thing in the goo. Everything, pet's included. Pre I9 you could have 200 yellow mitos out there. From experience that takes about 5 hours to clean up.

[Apparition]

11 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

And last night I did get on line. I logged in 30 minutes early to an already full hive 1. I was in hive 2, stuck around waiting the population of hive 2 never got more then about 10 players, most logged in saw they were locked out of hive one and left and didn't return. 

 

[...] But when not enough people even come to attempt to run a second raid a good 15-20 people a night are getting locked out of content simply because someone got a hair up their ass about how easy it was. 

 

There was also two scheduled Rikti mothership raids last night that ran concurrently with the Hamidon raids.  The mothership raids had a full league, with most of them being level 50s, and none under level 41, (as far as I could tell).  That's probably why not enough people showed up for a Hive 2 raid.

 

Also, Borderlands 3 released last night.  I was actually surprised that the Rikti mothership raids had a full league for both raids.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Apparition

[Profit]

More than likely, on live we ran the raids a bit earlier in the evening and generally mothershipped after. So Mon, Wed, Sat for hami/mothership double feature.

[QuiJon]

1 minute ago, Profit said:

I lead the raid in Hive 2 the second night. There was a double bloom because people weren't listening to instructions and tried to zerg after the first mito round went down. But, most of those people stuck around to clean up the double bloom and were rewarded with a successful raid. It did take some time, but they did great, and I hope many learned to keep request open and to listen to the raid leader.

 

As I told them that night, just be glad it wasn't a yellow dawn. Imagine a yellow mito spawning for every single thing in the goo. Everything, pet's included. Pre I9 you could have 200 yellow mitos out there. From experience that takes about 5 hours to clean up.

Well I do like the idea that someone stepped up to try and help people learn what they are doing, so thanks for that. However like I said last night I logged in about 30 minutes before normal raid time and stuck around until about 30 past, and the zone for hive 2 never barely even hit double digits for population. So even if we have people that know what they are doing, if the general population says the time investment is not worth the trouble anymore it doesn't solve the problem that people will be locked out now from taking part in content simply due to schedule or dumb luck or because their internet kicked them and they got replaced. No matter what kind of shine people want to put on it, this change costs players the ability to earn a reward that should be given to anyone that is willing to put in the time and work to take part in the encounter. That is what Hamdion's original "Intent" was and why he was originally designed as such a monster and originally had no zone cap.  

[Apparition]

4 minutes ago, Profit said:

More than likely, on live we ran the raids a bit earlier in the evening and generally mothershipped after. So Mon, Wed, Sat for hami/mothership double feature.

 

Yeah, I'd rather not run Rikti mothership raids concurrently with Hamidon raids, but I'm an East coast player with many West coast friends.  11 P.M. ET is too late for me, and 7 P.M. ET is too early for west coasters.  8:30 P.M. ET/5:30 P.M. PT it is.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Apparition

[Profit]

1 minute ago, QuiJon said:

Well I do like the idea that someone stepped up to try and help people learn what they are doing, so thanks for that. However like I said last night I logged in about 30 minutes before normal raid time and stuck around until about 30 past, and the zone for hive 2 never barely even hit double digits for population. So even if we have people that know what they are doing, if the general population says the time investment is not worth the trouble anymore it doesn't solve the problem that people will be locked out now from taking part in content simply due to schedule or dumb luck or because their internet kicked them and they got replaced. No matter what kind of shine people want to put on it, this change costs players the ability to earn a reward that should be given to anyone that is willing to put in the time and work to take part in the encounter. That is what Hamdion's original "Intent" was and why he was originally designed as such a monster and originally had no zone cap.  

And original running time on the Hamidon raid with no zone cap Pre I9 was 2 1/2 - 3 hours. That's with 200 people in the zone. And it will be that way now if Pre I9 hami was still around, because incarnates meant nothing to the actual Hamidon monster.

 

Don't talk to me about Hamidon's original "Intent", I've been raiding that amoeba a long long time. What you want is Post I9 weakened Hami (and he is considerably weaker now. Make no mistake about that) with Pre I9 thoughts on just how strong hamidon is (meaning you want no zone cap at all because OMG HAMIDON). And it shouldn't happen. This is how it should be for Hamidon current strength. So either get to the hive if you want to raid, or learn to lead raids and when hive 2 opens up to fit your schedule do it yourself.

[Foxfyre]

21 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

I don't know about what happened Wednesday but since this change went into effect, the raids on excelsior went from being raids that commonly had 3-4 leagues to having Hive 1 that successfully raided hamidon with 1 league, Hive 2 be a spectacular failure of a raid because all the people that really knew what they were doing were in hive 1 and I don't know if any other hives even attempted it that first night. The second night I was not able to get online for so I don't know what happened. And last night I did get on line. I logged in 30 minutes early to an already full hive 1. I was in hive 2, stuck around waiting the population of hive 2 never got more then about 10 players, most logged in saw they were locked out of hive one and left and didn't return. 

So as I said would happen there are two possibilities, that more people will learn to raid properly and more raids over all would happen, or the population would revert back to a few months ago where there were about 1.5 leagues of players every night, and now that the half a league can not get into hive one to take part in the event, they are locked out of game content. 

I have never said I didn't think the raid populations were based on the idea of how easy people felt it was to get rewarded when 200 people were showing up for a raid. What I had a lack of faith in is that those same people would choose to learn to raid and run raids to make up for the inability to join the larger groups and not just go back to doing what they did before. And I think that is what is happening, only now with the caps it is preventing those that are wanting to come, and are willing to come even when it means fighting the longer fight from even being able to take part at all. That IMO is an effect that is not worth preventing the leechers or whatever you want to call them from taking part. Probably because yes I am one of those people that would come no matter what. But when not enough people even come to attempt to run a second raid a good 15-20 people a night are getting locked out of content simply because someone got a hair up their ass about how easy it was. And rather then just putting real diminishing returns on it like a regular TF or capping how many rewards you can take per 20 hours or whatever that would solve the problem of farming it at no end, they choose to lock people out of doing it. It was a bad remedy for a stupid made up problem. 

I'm pretty sure I told you this myself.

 

There has only been so far one group of people running hami raids.  That group of people usually makes it a point to get to Hive 1 early.  So yes.....this is going to happen.

But again, as I'm sure I've said before.....this is a great opportunity for others to step up and start leading.

At this point.....honestly.....

Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Foxfyre

[QuiJon]

4 minutes ago, Apparition said:

 

There was also two scheduled Rikti mothership raids last night that ran concurrently with the Hamidon raids.  The mothership raids had a full league, with most of them being level 50s, and none under level 41, (as far as I could tell).  That's probably why not enough people showed up for a Hive 2 raid.

 

Also, Borderlands 3 released last night.  I was actually surprised that the Rikti mothership raids had a full league for both raids.

Well doesn't that just show you how the problem gets compounded even further by things other then just inability to learn to raid Hamidon? I mean what you are saying is I and a few others were locked out of taking part in a on going hamidon raid and from earning that reward with a team fighting hamidon, and not enough population to form another league, because someone chose to schedule a MSR at the same time taking away that population to a different event. IMO this just continues to show how bad of an idea it was to capp these zones. I mean an extra 10-15 people in hive 1 would not have made that encounter to easy but we were locked out, and likely locked out of a mothership raid also by the time we figured out that no one was coming to raid in hive 2. 

 

No offense but frankly missing a MSR is not a big whoop to me. I can make that many merits doing an ITF in about the same amount of time that a MSR takes. And frankly MSR are so boring to begin with I have literally fallen asleep in the huddle on the top of the ship. I will do them for the reward if nothing else is popping, but like I said it is not that hard to find 8 or less people that want to run a TF that can earn me that reward and keep me awake. I do get upset when I am locked out of hamidon though for no fault of my own. I am willing to do the work for the reward being offered and not being given the opportunity. 

 

[Profit]

Just now, QuiJon said:

 not enough population to form another league,

Don't give me that crap. There is more than enough population, it only took a few minutes of advertising in global channels and the hive league started to swell. All because someone was there will to lead it. And as far as learnign to lead/raid hamidon, it is not hard. Don't pretend it is. Oh look a guide that anyone who can read can understand!

 

 

[Profit]

2 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

I am willing to do the work for the reward being offered and not being given the opportunity. 

 

Sometimes part of that work is learning to lead. You are being given the opportunity. Your posts have demonstrated, despite your cries to the contrary, that you do not want to put the work into it.

[jubakumbi]

So, it seems the HC team is successful!

 

They have deployed an MMO, made a change that now pits forum warriors against each other, and continue to look at the situation...to be dealt with soon(tm).

 

Sounds like a Live MMO to me...

[QuiJon]

6 minutes ago, Profit said:

Sometimes part of that work is learning to lead. You are being given the opportunity. Your posts have demonstrated, despite your cries to the contrary, that you do not want to put the work into it.

Again I know how to raid. I know how to raid this hamidon, I led raids against pre-i9 hamidon. I was on the SG that first took him down on my server. But please forgive me for not being 25 years old anymore. Please forgive me for after working 11 hours and getting home and spending time with kids, and wife, and finally getting some diner and doing anything else that is being expect of me on any given day, if all I want to do is relax a bit by playing a video game I enjoy and check out from thinking  without having to take on the role of being a raid leader. And I know other people have real lives also.

 

A while back you all said you were gonna take a break from leading raids. I didnt bitch about that or throw some fit that you had to keep doing it. If someone doesnt want to lead they should not be forced to. But this is not that. This is a game mechanic specifically in place that prevents players from taking part in content that is already being played in a publicly open zone. And we are not locked out because the server can not handle the stress or any physical reason. We are locked out because of some out of date idea that this game has some recognizable sense of reward vs effort attached to it. 

 

Well this game, when being played as "intended" allows for 1 level 50 character to team with 7 level 5 characters who all stand at the door and do nothing and kill an entire map at +4 levels. In normal missions even not just AE content. It allows when being played as "intended" for AV strength and monster strength characters to be taken out by single heroes or villains. Players to solo TFs. and multiple other things that in any other game would have been nerfed out if they even made it to live. So I fail to see how saying that having a zone population that allows Hamidon to be zerged is breaking any reward mechanic in the game. So while I agree that I, or someone else could step up and lead a raid if we choose to, I am saying more why should we have to if the encounter is being fought already just to satisfy some bullshit idea that this game has balanced rewards mechanics?