issue 26 Patch Notes for September 10th, 2019

[Torcel]

Just now, Otto said:

You can rename your toon at anytime.

True.  You can even change your global at will.  But you can't change the star rating I've attached to it, and you can't change any notes I've made about you.

[Carmentia]

9 hours ago, Veelectric Boogaloo said:

That did the trick, thanks. Never would have occurred to me to re-validate right after a patch but I must've had some hiccup in the patching. Now to see about converting my bug thread to a hilarious screenshot thread 😄

Worked on husband’s Mac too. Thank you.

[TheAdjustor]

7 hours ago, Foxfyre said:

Also....the fact that you're so mad about cancelling the raid.....it's actually a wash, and here's why.

Let's say we don't cancel the raid.  Let's say those of us who are actually willing to participate give it our best but we fail.  And then we end up with Hami in triple bloom status and can't finish.  That will cause the EXACT same peer pressure effects on the griefers as cancelling the raid.  Maybe even more so because then they cause people to fail.

Cancelling the raid is actually the nicer option.

I need a bewildered jaw drop reaction. Having the raid go badly and have to be cancelled is exactly what griefers want and while it's not what the afk leachers want it's really a no skin off their back situation seeing as they were afkish and leeching and anyway.  I also have to ask just what form will "peer pressure" take ?  You're going do what shun somebody's second/third/4th  account ? That will show them. You may also find that most people really aren't itching to be part of a vengeance mob.

 

Edit: Oh forgot to say this the firs time and wasn't plain but, If I spend 30-45 minutes getting a raid going why wouldn't I be mad  that it had to be cancelled ? How the hell is that a wash ?

Edited September 10, 2019 by TheAdjustor

[QuiJon]

3 hours ago, GM Capocollo said:

If that happens, report it and GMs can reset the maps (and hand out punishments).

You are going to hand out punishments for what they can call an attempted and failed raid? What if they just come into the zone and half the single league is just refusing to help other then bare minimum to get a reward? Are we going to have to report them for "punishment" also? This is starting down a very slippery slope of using the ticket system to just report people for offending your personal tastes IMO. 

Seems like it would be much easier to just put the caps higher for the time being and solve the problem with a good solution  like has been mentioned of converting the raids to their own instances. 

[Extor Prime]

Three cheers for the dev team! Illusion's back in business!

Edited September 11, 2019 by Extor Prime

[Foxfyre]

41 minutes ago, TheAdjustor said:

I need a bewildered jaw drop reaction. Having the raid go badly and have to be cancelled is exactly what griefers want and while it's not what the afk leachers want it's really a no skin off their back situation seeing as they were afkish and leeching and anyway.  I also have to ask just what form will "peer pressure" take ?  You're going do what shun somebody's second/third/4th  account ? That will show them. You may also find that most people really aren't itching to be part of a vengeance mob.

 

Edit: Oh forgot to say this the firs time and wasn't plain but, If I spend 30-45 minutes getting a raid going why wouldn't I be mad  that it had to be cancelled ? How the hell is that a wash ?

You know what....look at PaxArcana's recent post.

If you don't understand it then, then just ignore me.

[Shoulung]

Zone caps at 50... hmm, so if I was a turd banned from a hami raid or MSR and I knew several other turds in the same boat, because we wanted to afk all the time, all we’d have to do is drop into the zone a little before the raid is scheduled to start and we’d deprive the raid of a full team to tackle the content with. Yeah, I could see why someone would think it’s a good idea to sabotage end game content with arbitrary restrictions. It’s not like the server hasn’t been able to handle the zone load for the last few months.

[Foxfyre]

3 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

You are going to hand out punishments for what they can call an attempted and failed raid? What if they just come into the zone and half the single league is just refusing to help other then bare minimum to get a reward? Are we going to have to report them for "punishment" also? This is starting down a very slippery slope of using the ticket system to just report people for offending your personal tastes IMO. 

Seems like it would be much easier to just put the caps higher for the time being and solve the problem with a good solution  like has been mentioned of converting the raids to their own instances. 

There's a difference between spawning hami and then intentionally bringing him to triple bloom status and a "failed raid".

It would be up to the GM's to determine the difference.  And they can watch you without you even knowing they are there.

[QuiJon]

4 hours ago, Snow0wl said:

Putting thing back to how they are suppose to be and then looking at the issues is the only way to do it. You don't leave the broken piece in while working on to let it cause more damage. 

 

Really cause they did just exactly that with Martial Assault on dominators. It had been broken since the set came out, hitting to many targets, the proc in the build up awarding wrong, the damage not scaling right. And they still let people use the power set and build characters with that power for months and months while they worked on fixing it correctly. 

[swordchucks]

3 hours ago, Veracor said:

how much earlier than the schedule I'll have to form up the raid every day.

Thanks for running them, anyway.  We were full tonight at 7:29 (for an 8:00 scheduled start) and I think someone was running another at 8:00. 

 

I feel like the magic is gone, though.  It's too serious now and not the fun party-time I'm used to enjoying.  It might now be how it was on live, but a whole lot of people playing now never did that content on live.  For a lot of us, the way it was since May is the only way we've experienced it.

 

For the first time in months, I think I'd rather go to bed early than mess around raiding.  Not a good feeling, man.

[Veracor]

1 minute ago, swordchucks said:

Thanks for running them, anyway.  We were full tonight at 7:29 (for an 8:00 scheduled start) and I think someone was running another at 8:00. 

 

I feel like the magic is gone, though.  It's too serious now and not the fun party-time I'm used to enjoying.  It might now be how it was on live, but a whole lot of people playing now never did that content on live.  For a lot of us, the way it was since May is the only way we've experienced it.

 

For the first time in months, I think I'd rather go to bed early than mess around raiding.  Not a good feeling, man.

 

Yeah, the raids have to be more serious now.  We have to inspect the league for leechers and kick them, and anyone who crashes is usually out of the raid.

 

Maybe we will run more raids?  Maybe concurrently?  We've been talking about what to do to adapt to the new cap.

 

We will also likely have fewer EoEs going forward from now on, unless they decrease the chances of Hami spawning from Monster kills.

[lolcritrockets]

As someone who rarely engage with "endgame content" in general, I'd at least like to speak up about the 50 zone cap as it pertain to large group events like Hami or MSR. Which I was thoroughly enjoying once I stepped out of my comfort zone and started joining them.

 

I much preferred the higher zone caps so we could bomb Hami or overwhelm the Rikti. It felt like a more fun and more casual time. It was more accessible to me, and I feel like it was also more accessible for other people too. Straightforward nature of Hamikaze was easy to understand and more people could contribute without doing a big study session on "proper" raid procedure or something. That's the kind of thing that always pushed me away from the very high-end content: the notion that you pretty much needed THE build and have memorized THE strategy in order to contribute. Otherwise you were a burden, useless to the group and a waste of time for yourself.

 

Doing raids with higher-intended-numbers might not have been... intended and less challenging(i.e. less fun) to some folks, but I can't help asking what the massive problem seems to be?

 

"Hipster leechers" and "people not running the raid "properly" is dangerously close to "Old man yells at cloud territory" for me. So what if people are somehow benefiting from the raid without contributing? How does that actually effect you? Assuming a Hamikaze succeeds, people still get the rewards, but... other people also get them? Stepping away from how this applies in real life, this is a video game. Calm down. And the whole "you must run the raid THIS way" notion is what pushed me away in the beginning, and is just feels like gatekeeping nonsense. "I had to do it the hard way, so you ALSO have to do it the hard way. Despite an easier way existing." I fail to see any tangible problem other than the same problems that have plagued video games, and most subcultures in general, insularity.

 

Griefers? Annoying, sure. But I honestly can't think of a good way to deal with them that doesn't require significant and constant oversight from the GMs or devs, which is pretty much always the case in any video game. Other people in this thread have touched on it better, but basically griefers will always find a way because getting a rise out of people is the end goal, and that goal has many options for achievement. But as it pertains to my experience in Hami raids, they didn't seem to hamper the end result and just got lumped-in with the "leechers" on safety rock anyway. Hami may have got killed slower or respawned slower, but it always still happened.

 

Lag? Sure. I can at least see that as being a legitimate and tangible issue that can be addressed with the zone caps. If it's a literal technical problem, then there isn't much that can be done and I can accept that.

 

I understand that some players want that challenge of difficulty and organization. That's fine. It's not for me, but that's fine. But my hope was that there was at least an option for less, for lack of a better term, "hardcore" players to also somehow enjoy the same content without NEEDING that level of difficulty. Some people may call that entitled or whatever, but at the end of the day I like playing this game with other people AND I also like to play this game at a less-than-hardcore level. And being able to run those raids with lots of other people, even if there were some bad eggs, was... enjoyable. And that's why I liked the game, and was happy to see it back. I'll continue to keep playing regardless, but I don't like the injection of exclusionary attitudes.

 

Wow. That got long and involved. But that's my 2 cents on zone caps.

[PaxArcana]

2 hours ago, Otto said:

You can rename your toon at anytime.

That's why, I said /global_ignore.  You can only change your global handle so many times, before the GMs stop obliging you with new tokens.

 

And, side benefit: it doesn't matter if you have one 50, or a hundred of them.  Once someone ignores your @global ... all your characters are ignored.

[ParaBruce]

I have to agree with others unhappy about the 50-character cap, most especially for the RWZ. I'm in there fairly regularly on one character or another for missions and task forces, and do not like either the thought that two friends and I could impinge on a mothership raid or that a mothership raid could lock out one of my friends or me if we're in a trio. It's not uncommon for people who just hit 50 and are unlocking their alpha slot to get at least one person's help in fighting Captain Holt and all that, and of course there are task forces coming in and out as well.

 

A reasonable fall-back would be letting raid leaders start recruiting and be able to spin up a new instance all their own. But I would really prefer having the larger cap back.

 

[PaxArcana]

1 minute ago, ParaBruce said:

A reasonable fall-back would be letting raid leaders start recruiting and be able to spin up a new instance all their own.

This, to my mind, is the solution.  Especially for the Hamidon.

[Torcel]

6 minutes ago, ParaBruce said:

A reasonable fall-back would be letting raid leaders start recruiting and be able to spin up a new instance all their own. But I would really prefer having the larger cap back.

Provided it's possible to still get new people in once you start it, as opposed to what happens with an Incarnate trial.  MSR in particular has people who come mid-raid 'cause they don't like waiting for everyone to gather.  And that's fine as long as they participate *shrug*

[Apparition]

9 minutes ago, ParaBruce said:

I have to agree with others unhappy about the 50-character cap, most especially for the RWZ. I'm in there fairly regularly on one character or another for missions and task forces, and do not like either the thought that two friends and I could impinge on a mothership raid or that a mothership raid could lock out one of my friends or me if we're in a trio. It's not uncommon for people who just hit 50 and are unlocking their alpha slot to get at least one person's help in fighting Captain Holt and all that, and of course there are task forces coming in and out as well.

 

A reasonable fall-back would be letting raid leaders start recruiting and be able to spin up a new instance all their own. But I would really prefer having the larger cap back.

 

 

They kind of already can, by flooding the zone with players until a second zone is forced open.  Which a lower zone cap actually helps.

[Ukase]

12 hours ago, Leandro said:

Not putting a raid in a zone where players are running missions and doing other stuff, but that ship sailed with i10.

I can't pretend to know what the code looks like; I've never seen it. I also can't pretend to be a mind reader. Well - I could, but I wouldn't be very good at it. 

I get the bit with the hive. But I don't get why you'd revert the RWZ cap to 50. Who cares if that's the way it was? They never had a p2w or an IO that made things Insta-cast snipe, either. Yet, we have them. 

Could you at least explain why RWZ was capped at 50, instead of 75? Think about the 3 task forces that kick off from RWZ. 

This reversion back to 50 makes less sense than having it at 50 in the first place made. 

Again - there may be reasoning I'm not smart enough to know - and some things are just none of my business. But you folks have been transparent so far, why not shed some light on the reasoning? I know I'd appreciate it. 

[Volcanic92]

well the hamidon  raid on indimtable  was a not fun anymore thanks for knocking the zone to 50 people . I want be doing that content anytime soon 

[gameboy1234]

18 hours ago, Leandro said:

Fixed an issue where Pool > Concealment > Stealth was making players completely translucent.

Just FYI, I have this issue on my Widow as well, with Mask Presence.  Well I'm not completely transparent, but it's really close.  Would be nice to turn down (up?) the transparency a bit.

[Megajoule]

A margin of 2 in RWZ is much too small, IMO.  Please raise the cap for that zone.

[ParaBruce]

Having complained about one change, I want to enthusiastically praise another: the slider to change the size of name text is really, really welcome on these bad eyes of mine. Thank you!

 

[BlastLord]

I had people complaining to me about the 50 cap in RWZ, The Hive and The Abyss it was fine just as it is just the 50 cap made things not fun.

[JCMcBoo]

13 hours ago, Robotech_Master said:

Ditto, I'm still seeing completely invisi-Stealth.

 

(Pity about the Hive cap, but oh well. Knew it couldn't last.)

I kind of like it. It's got a very cloaked Predator feel. They know that you're there but can lose you easily with your Stealth active.

Edited September 11, 2019 by JCMcBoo

[Mansome]

Not too sure about the Hami changes. While I get why it was done it just isn't worth the effort anymore considering what IOs can do. Allow them to drop as level 53s again then I can see it worth the effort. In the meantime it might just be faster to do the TF for the SHO instead. While the merit choice is there, some TFs can be run so fast with little effort that this won't matter as a reward. Bump the merit to 100.