The Beta Power Pools from the Wiki?

I was wondering if there is any plans to add the power pools that didn't quite get implemented but are mentioned on the wiki, but which we had data and such for?  (https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Power_Pool)

Specifically: 

    Experimentation

    Force of Will

    Gadgetry

    Utility Belt

Especially if there is still code and such for them, because a few of those would be wonderful addition to any number of concepts out there!

Yes, but (quite aside from their effects being unfinished and unbalanced) most of them don't have animations and there aren't many people who can do that.

Ahh, darn then!  And a real shame about no animations, but it is understandable then!

I was hoping maybe they'd have had some leftover from the beta servers or something.

Yes, but (quite aside from their effects being unfinished and unbalanced) most of them don't have animations and there aren't many people who can do that.

Sure they can, its simply a matter or picking what animation is most appropriate (from a ton currently available) and attaching it to the power. Blaze, Fire Blasts highest damage 80ft range instant attack is the same as what Energy Transfer used to be and is currently the same as Freezing touch in the Ice Melee set (among others). I build abilities myself in another private server, its pretty standard stuff.

Bespoke brand new animations would of course be nice but they are certainly not necessary.

Sure they can, its simply a matter or picking what animation is most appropriate (from a ton currently available) and attaching it to the power.  . . . Bespoke brand new animations would of course be nice but they are certainly not necessary.

We might disagree on "necessary," since it's not just the model rigging (as in your examples) that needs to make sense -- it's the effect itself.  Reskinning Toxic Dart or Psychic Scream would only go so far.

But of course, animations themselves aren't strictly "necessary," if you're flexible enough about that kind of thing.  So quite aside from that, also the power effects are unfinished and unbalanced.

I'd love to see your proposed implementations in action, though!

+1. I'd love to see a LOT of new power pools added.

The Rebirth I24 server reportedly had Force of Will working, but they disabled it (along with Psi Melee) to work on the VFX.  So it's probably the closest to "done".  (I'm really not 100% sure Sorcery is completely done; there was at least another few weeks of beta-testing they wanted to do on it when the game shut down)

Yes, but (quite aside from their effects being unfinished and unbalanced) most of them don't have animations and there aren't many people who can do that.

 

Sure they can, its simply a matter or picking what animation is most appropriate (from a ton currently available) and attaching it to the power. Blaze, Fire Blasts highest damage 80ft range instant attack is the same as what Energy Transfer used to be and is currently the same as Freezing touch in the Ice Melee set (among others). I build abilities myself in another private server, its pretty standard stuff.

 

Bespoke brand new animations would of course be nice but they are certainly not necessary.

You need to get an existing power that has a suitable animation and also has exactly the same animation time as the casting time of the new power as well... that is a lot harder to do than just pick a random animation.

If the animation is shorter than the cast time, you get to move earlier - before it's actually fired off.

If the animation is longer than the cast time, you cant move until x time after the power had fired off.

Also, Just because two animations match cast does not mean you can use a punch to fling fire balls. FX changes may be needed to make the effect come off the right body part.

Yes, but (quite aside from their effects being unfinished and unbalanced) most of them don't have animations and there aren't many people who can do that.

 

Sure they can, its simply a matter or picking what animation is most appropriate (from a ton currently available) and attaching it to the power. Blaze, Fire Blasts highest damage 80ft range instant attack is the same as what Energy Transfer used to be and is currently the same as Freezing touch in the Ice Melee set (among others). I build abilities myself in another private server, its pretty standard stuff.

 

Bespoke brand new animations would of course be nice but they are certainly not necessary.

 

You need to get an existing power that has a suitable animation and also has exactly the same animation time as the casting time of the new power as well... that is a lot harder to do than just pick a random animation.

 

If the animation is shorter than the cast time, you get to move earlier - before it's actually fired off.

If the animation is longer than the cast time, you cant move until x time after the power had fired off.

 

Also, Just because two animations match cast does not mean you can use a punch to fling fire balls. FX changes may be needed to make the effect come off the right body part.

Well, it is easier to adjust a database than animations... so you adjust the cast time to match the animation that you have found. If this means that the power needs a small change to its recharge to balance it, and then to the damage & endurance, or to the duration, to rebalance it... it's still easier than changing animations.

Yes, but (quite aside from their effects being unfinished and unbalanced) most of them don't have animations and there aren't many people who can do that.

 

Sure they can, its simply a matter or picking what animation is most appropriate (from a ton currently available) and attaching it to the power. Blaze, Fire Blasts highest damage 80ft range instant attack is the same as what Energy Transfer used to be and is currently the same as Freezing touch in the Ice Melee set (among others). I build abilities myself in another private server, its pretty standard stuff.

 

Bespoke brand new animations would of course be nice but they are certainly not necessary.

 

You need to get an existing power that has a suitable animation and also has exactly the same animation time as the casting time of the new power as well... that is a lot harder to do than just pick a random animation.

 

If the animation is shorter than the cast time, you get to move earlier - before it's actually fired off.

If the animation is longer than the cast time, you cant move until x time after the power had fired off.

 

Also, Just because two animations match cast does not mean you can use a punch to fling fire balls. FX changes may be needed to make the effect come off the right body part.

 

Well, it is easier to adjust a database than animations... so you adjust the cast time to match the animation that you have found. If this means that the power needs a small change to its recharge to balance it, and then to the damage & endurance, or to the duration, to rebalance it... it's still easier than changing animations.

ooh that's a thought I hadn't considered. Do you think this would work in all cases or just for those where the animation is only slightly off?

You need to get an existing power that has a suitable animation and also has exactly the same animation time as the casting time of the new power as well... that is a lot harder to do than just pick a random animation.

 

If the animation is shorter than the cast time, you get to move earlier - before it's actually fired off.

If the animation is longer than the cast time, you cant move until x time after the power had fired off.

Only the cast time has to matter.  Animations can be interrupted (this happens all the time with e.g. self-buff powers), and a too-short animation can just have 'dead' time at the beginning or end.

In a way, I'm a little surprised that Leandro -- with all his work on the camera tool -- didn't find some way (or someone) who could make a CoH conversion kit for Blender, or a custom tool, or etc.  I don't know much about this area, but I do know the information is out there.

Yes, but (quite aside from their effects being unfinished and unbalanced) most of them don't have animations and there aren't many people who can do that.

 

Sure they can, its simply a matter or picking what animation is most appropriate (from a ton currently available) and attaching it to the power. Blaze, Fire Blasts highest damage 80ft range instant attack is the same as what Energy Transfer used to be and is currently the same as Freezing touch in the Ice Melee set (among others). I build abilities myself in another private server, its pretty standard stuff.

 

Bespoke brand new animations would of course be nice but they are certainly not necessary.

 

You need to get an existing power that has a suitable animation and also has exactly the same animation time as the casting time of the new power as well... that is a lot harder to do than just pick a random animation.

 

If the animation is shorter than the cast time, you get to move earlier - before it's actually fired off.

If the animation is longer than the cast time, you cant move until x time after the power had fired off.

 

Also, Just because two animations match cast does not mean you can use a punch to fling fire balls. FX changes may be needed to make the effect come off the right body part.

It really isnt, for every ability thats in those unreleased sets there is at the very least one ability that you can just go to and it will fit just fine, theres several darts.

Animation time is not tied to the animation, its easy to increase/decrease

Fx changes are clearly different and still, theres already a myriad in the game thats easily importable to them.

You are looking for problems that dont exist, in animation, effect and visual terms all the pieces are already in game to make it look great, it just requires someone to assemble (which isnt hard) and THEN, when you have the pieces together, the abilities need balancing. Its pretty much the preserve for one guy on the team and hes pretty busy, but dont make assumptions at where the bottleneck lies, its manpower, nothing else in this cases.

I was wondering if there is any plans to add the power pools that didn't quite get implemented but are mentioned on the wiki, but which we had data and such for?  (https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Power_Pool)

 

Specifically: 

    Experimentation

    Force of Will

    Gadgetry

    Utility Belt

 

Especially if there is still code and such for them, because a few of those would be wonderful addition to any number of concepts out there!

 

There are plans to get those sets finished. We dont want to half-ass it, though. We wont just copy another power's fx and call it done. We will borrow particles, so some FX may look "at home" with similarly themed powers, not unlike how Rad Armor shares many particles with Rad blast, and Soul Noir dark theme borrows particles from Dark Control. We will just not just slap energy blast fx to Wrist Blaster, Blaster Drone, or whatever the final name for that power ends up being.

 

Animation time matching is mostly an issue with powers that are already in use, these powers are new so changing the animation is not out of the question (although changing the animation time will always mean pvp attributes also need changing.) Biggest challenge is Bollas in the Utility Belt, as it already has a half-done cool animation with no fx that seems to expect a rather complicated fx script, plus is missing a flying animation (may force the power to only work on the ground.)

 

Gadgetry is also underwhelming thematically, plus, anyone can buy a lame jetpack. Feels very redundant with Utility Belt and available temp powers, so the current plan is to re-conceptualize it as Cybernetic Enhancements (sounds a bit more techy, in contrast with Utility Belt's nature theme) with the flight power being based on Iron-Man like thrusters.

 

The current plan is to develop them one by one, but it will take time.

That sounds awesome.

Trickshooter is right.  That all sound deliciously awesome.

Gadgetry is also underwhelming thematically, plus, anyone can buy a lame jetpack. Feels very redundant with Utility Belt and available temp powers, so the current plan is to re-conceptualize it as Cybernetic Enhancements (sounds a bit more techy, in contrast with Utility Belt's nature theme) with the flight power being based on Iron-Man like thrusters.

 

The current plan is to develop them one by one, but it will take time.

If you're re-evaluating some of the original power concepts, my #1 request is to replicate 'staple' powers in other pools, exclusive with the original.  Staple powers are the ones that end up in nearly every build in some form or another: Hasten, Combat Jumping, Hasten, Tough/Weave, Hasten again; and to a lesser extent Acrobatics and Recall Friend.  The Origin pools did a great job of unlocking specific travel powers from their associated pools to change up some traditional builds, but more often than not it's these staple powers (which also include Hasten) that end up locking many builds into the same 2-3 power pools over and over.

 

If you're re-evaluating some of the original power concepts, my #1 request is to replicate 'staple' powers in other pools, exclusive with the original.  Staple powers are the ones that end up in nearly every build in some form or another: Hasten, Combat Jumping, Hasten, Tough/Weave, Hasten again; and to a lesser extent Acrobatics and Recall Friend.  The Origin pools did a great job of unlocking specific travel powers from their associated pools to change up some traditional builds, but more often than not it's these staple powers (which also include Hasten) that end up locking many builds into the same 2-3 power pools over and over.

Jack, should we add Hasten to that list?

:D

 

If you're re-evaluating some of the original power concepts, my #1 request is to replicate 'staple' powers in other pools, exclusive with the original.  Staple powers are the ones that end up in nearly every build in some form or another: Hasten, Combat Jumping, Hasten, Tough/Weave, Hasten again; and to a lesser extent Acrobatics and Recall Friend.  The Origin pools did a great job of unlocking specific travel powers from their associated pools to change up some traditional builds, but more often than not it's these staple powers (which also include Hasten) that end up locking many builds into the same 2-3 power pools over and over.

 

Jack, should we add Hasten to that list?

 

:D

I don't think so, it's kind of an obscure power, there aren't that many people using it.

I was wondering if there is any plans to add the power pools that didn't quite get implemented but are mentioned on the wiki, but which we had data and such for?  (https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Power_Pool)

 

Specifically: 

    Experimentation

    Force of Will

    Gadgetry

    Utility Belt

 

Especially if there is still code and such for them, because a few of those would be wonderful addition to any number of concepts out there!

 

There are plans to get those sets finished. We dont want to half-ass it, though. We wont just copy another power's fx and call it done. We will borrow particles, so some FX may look "at home" with similarly themed powers, not unlike how Rad Armor shares many particles with Rad blast, and Soul Noir dark theme borrows particles from Dark Control. We will just not just slap energy blast fx to Wrist Blaster, Blaster Drone, or whatever the final name for that power ends up being.

 

Animation time matching is mostly an issue with powers that are already in use, these powers are new so changing the animation is not out of the question (although changing the animation time will always mean pvp attributes also need changing.) Biggest challenge is Bollas in the Utility Belt, as it already has a half-done cool animation with no fx that seems to expect a rather complicated fx script, plus is missing a flying animation (may force the power to only work on the ground.)

 

Gadgetry is also underwhelming thematically, plus, anyone can buy a lame jetpack. Feels very redundant with Utility Belt and available temp powers, so the current plan is to re-conceptualize it as Cybernetic Enhancements (sounds a bit more techy, in contrast with Utility Belt's nature theme) with the flight power being based on Iron-Man like thrusters.

 

The current plan is to develop them one by one, but it will take time.

Gadgetry is also underwhelming thematically, plus, anyone can buy a lame jetpack. Feels very redundant with Utility Belt and available temp powers, so the current plan is to re-conceptualize it as Cybernetic Enhancements (sounds a bit more techy, in contrast with Utility Belt's nature theme) with the flight power being based on Iron-Man like thrusters.

I was honestly looking forward to Gadgetry as it was written, jetpack and all.  Sure, anyone can buy a jetpack, but you can't buy a jetpack with enhanceable slots and an Afterburner-like click power built in.  For example, I wanted the set for my mad scientist who uses high-tech inventions but doesn't actually have any "cybernetic enhancements".  The characters I'd use "Gadgetry" on are not the same characters I'd use "Cybernetic Enhancements" on.

And I don't see why Gadgetry is somehow redundant due to Utility Belt.  UB's attacks are distinctly low-tech - bolas, a dagger, and a running punch, with only Life Support System being possibly high-tech - compared to Gadgetry's drones, nanotech, and forcefields.  Those are very different conceptually.

I do wonder what Paragon Studios originally had in mind for the "drone" attacks, though.  Were they intended to visually summon a drone to shoot the target and then disappear?  (That's a rhetorical question, of course)

Can I suggest that Utility Belt get Caltrops and/or Web Grenade? :D

Thematically, those seem like things that would just be obvious to have on a utility belt.

Gadgetry is also underwhelming thematically, plus, anyone can buy a lame jetpack. Feels very redundant with Utility Belt and available temp powers, so the current plan is to re-conceptualize it as Cybernetic Enhancements (sounds a bit more techy, in contrast with Utility Belt's nature theme) with the flight power being based on Iron-Man like thrusters.

 

I was honestly looking forward to Gadgetry as it was written, jetpack and all.  Sure, anyone can buy a jetpack, but you can't buy a jetpack with enhanceable slots and an Afterburner-like click power built in.  For example, I wanted the set for my mad scientist who uses high-tech inventions but doesn't actually have any "cybernetic enhancements".  The characters I'd use "Gadgetry" on are not the same characters I'd use "Cybernetic Enhancements" on.

 

And I don't see why Gadgetry is somehow redundant due to Utility Belt.  UB's attacks are distinctly low-tech - bolas, a dagger, and a running punch, with only Life Support System being possibly high-tech - compared to Gadgetry's drones, nanotech, and forcefields.  Those are very different conceptually.

 

I do wonder what Paragon Studios originally had in mind for the "drone" attacks, though.  Were they intended to visually summon a drone to shoot the target and then disappear?  (That's a rhetorical question, of course)

I'm definitely finding drones to be problematic as a term.  I have an AR/Dev cyborg, but only some of him is actually cybernetic, no foot boosters.  His original build included hover, because he's a teleporter and that stopped him from falling out of the sky all the time.  My RP for it was that he retrofitted a gravity engine off a Sky Raider shield drone.  Just having a jet pack would be great, though.  But the other reason I was interested in it was he has actual drones: Targeting Drone and Gun Drone from Devices, as well as the Power Drone pet, so if he could summon some more combat drones that would totally make sense for him.  Firing things from his wrists, though, is less inspiring, especially if it means he puts away his gun every time.

Anyway, I hope these make/are making progress because I started building around them not realizing they weren't things yet and it will halt character progress not having them.  That's fine, though, because I have a lot of characters to remake still.

If you go to the paragonwiki entry, you can see they likely were already scrapping the drone thing:

You fire a series of blasts from a sophisticated energy drone. Wrist Blaster deals Moderate energy damage and will reduce the target's regeneration rate for a short time.

+1

+1