Koopak

Doesn't solve the core problem with most self rezes, but does bring it somewhat in line with damaging rezes. That being that they are only useful after a "loss condition" which while i generally hold that "death is not a loss condition if you get right back up" there are game mechanics that aggressively disagree with that, uncommon as they are, so players are justified in holding that view. I really consider Second Wind pretty crap, its only value is derived from the fact that Dismiss Pain is a poor replacement for Dull Pain. If applied to Scrapper, Brute, Stalker the existing Second Wind mechanics would be useless as all of those can perma Dull Pain with minimal slot investment while getting it strong enough to hit HP caps. It would need to be converted into Absorb or some other shenanigans which isn't my first pick. (Edit: I recognize second win is a decent heal but having another click heal isn't a significant thing to me, let alone one with a base recharge of 250) I think @aetherealis at least on the right track, in that if we make Revive have a damage or +damage component you can use while alive then we solve two problems with one change. Namely you make Revive a valuable power pick even if you never die, and you give Regen something to compensate for dps loss from click powers. Additionally if done right it gives a nice risk/reward pairing where you have to risk not having your revive to get the damage bonus, and I'm ALWAYS a fan of risk/reward systems.

This has some merit as it does synergize with opportunity's single target focus to some degree, though i feel it might add to much gameplay complexity to an already obtuse AT without giving enough benefit.

I always want more pwoersets and boy do MMs need more, their options are limited given how long it takes to make one. However I will note that if given the choice id probably pick any other MM pet set idea just because i don't wanna detract from the EATs unique elements. Given how often they are used to make non Arachnos and non Kheldian characters though, its hardly a big deal.

This doesn't feel like something that should need a "good argument" to enable for OP. That's the fundamental disconnect between you two. You see a possible issue without advantage, and they see and opportunity without drawback. The core of any debate here begins and ends with "In live SOME supergroups ran by SOME people used prestige as an excuse to engage in toxic social pressure." and whether or not that would be true again in the modern era of the game with prestige having no tangible impact. I feel that it really wouldn't as without the value inherit in being able to spend that prestige (even if you already bought everything you want) it loses a lot of its meaning and the SGs that exhibit the behavior you fear will be few and far between. I'd suggest Vet levels as an example, iv yet to see anyone use their vet level as an excuse to be disrespectful or dismissive of anyone else. However, I will add that if this is going to cause this aggressive a knee jerk reaction, then the fact that it provides minimal to no benefit to the community means its not worth getting people fired up over. Your view wins by the default of existing, even if it might be unfounded. The fact that you and others are so concerned with this possibility as to provide multiple multi paragraph posts in opposition suggests that its simply not worth the headache. I for one wont care much either way, be fun to have another number to push up, but not enough to give a shit about it.

IF I was gonna do this id want to to involve some kinda SG badge equivalent to vet levels. The prestige doesn't help anything, doesn't unlock anything, just makes a public number go burr.

Like I said I don't really see a problem with the status quo. However my Scranker brain wants to show the bad tankers I know how to do it even more so I WANT taunt auras. Doesnt mean I should have them. I'd say IF this were given serious consideration, it should be as a change to Confront (like someone said, make it a taunt aura with a pop up tray taunt maybe or make it give a taunt aura and a single target taunt) or better, something that costs more, and epic or pool power. (but being a pool powers asks spooky questions like Blankers? Blasters playing Tank?) Either way current taunt aura sets should keep theirs. As for a scrapper damage buff? I mean... if you really want? 😆 Edift: Oh or just my prior suggestion of a 'no run zone' aura since i THINK thats doable without using the taunt mechanic, but not certain.

I'm not defending that "250%" number. As far as I know that number was pulled from whole cloth and has no basis in the mechanics. Also my point wasnt to say "Look how much stronger Brutes are at there optimal" but "Look how much stronger they can be" because those numbers are inexcessible to Scrappers, period. If you get even 5% over 75, yer taking the remaining 25% damage and reducing it be a relative value of 20%. I also don't see the value in pointing out defense debuffs exists. We all get bodied by those unless our names are Super Reflexes or Energy Aura my dude. Scrappers are just as affected, and in an essentially linear fashion so Brutes maintain their edge even if reduced. *has flashbacks to trying to solo Silver Mantis yesterday on +4*

I dont have the math on hand but quick aside. Durability is multiplicative across hp, regen, defense, and resistance. A small increase in one has drastic impacts on others. ( 100hp / ( 1 - ( .5 (base to hit +0) + .45 (defense cap) ) ) ) / ( 1 - ( .75 (resist cap) ) ) 8,000 effective hp ( 112hp / ( 1 - ( .5 (base to hit +0) + .45 (defense cap) ) ) ) / ( 1 - ( .75 (resist cap) ) ) 8,960 effective hp Still technically 12% difference but that 12% is a lot bigger considering its mostly AVs that hit hard enough to cover that gap and we are playing with 100 hp and this is with scrapper resists, hitting 90% resist on a brute isn't that hard on many sets so more like ( 112hp / ( 1 - ( .5 (base to hit +0) + .45 (defense cap) ) ) ) / ( 1 - ( .9 (resist cap) ) ) 22,400 effective hp Which should really drive the point home how much the resist differences matter. Its one thing if Brutes struggle to get above 75% but in my experience... they really don't unless they are non resist sets. That said I have no stake in the matter, im content with where Brutes vs Scrapper are. (*says he doesn't have the math, does the math anyways*)

God no, the war for AT "consistency" is completely off base. If you get rid of the taunt auras on the sets that have them, most of them will be severely negatively impacted in function, requiring further changes and deviations for those power sets game play styles. I also take umbrage with the bolded. This is IMPOSSIBLE. This does not exist now, and never will. No developer of any class based system would agree with this when you get down to the details because the fact of the matter is past 2-3 maybe 4 classes, this becomes impossible because you can either A. design content all classes can do, but has no significant benefit to one class or the other. or B. design classes that are so homogenous as to be interchangable. Instead this game and most games with a class system strive to create scenarios where each class can shine, but that necessitates those same scenarios are bad for other classes. With the number of classes we have? That means no, there will never be content in which each class has a unique advantage to the others in every scenario. Maybe im straw manning a poorly worded argument dude, and i hope so because this is not possible.

I'm slowly working on an attempt to provide a full look into Regen and other power sets that factors in as many elements as possible because of how much more complex Regen is since it shifts states to much over the course of a fight. Honestly at this point it may be easier to make contributions to Mids or something lol. Anyways I'll just repeat my usual. I FEEL that Regen is fine, provided the player puts in the effort to play it well, save for two main things. 1. Nearly every debuff type crushes it. Most defense sets simply don't care much about one or two of them. For instance Willpower basically doesn't give a shit if its hit with -1000% recharge. Radiation or other resist sets, don't care as much about -defense, and SR and other defense set have -def resist. Regen however crumbles under -regen, -defense, -recharge, and even -endurance 2. Regen has no built in compensation for the DPS loss of using so many active defenses. Toggle sets like Willpower don't lose any dps, because they don't have to do anything other than attack. Energy Aura, or Super Reflexes both have +Global Recharge to compensate for the cost of spending time on their active powers. Bio Armor doesn't have recharge, but it does have a damage aura and a damage proc via Offensive Adaptation. Regen has none of these while arguably depending on its active powers significantly more often. These two facts, regardless of where Regen stands in raw durability, are objectively true. These two issues are the first place any changes to the set should focus.

I'm not against minor taunt auras like EA's something weak. However i do think that for powersets that aren't dependent on nearby enemies for durability, it should cost something. I've debated suggesting a taunt aura to the Presence Pool but i haven't done so yet because of the weird effects that proposes for other ATs. Blankers? I don't think it'd be a serious issues since most other ATs, even with optimal slotting, struggle to have the durability to handle a big pack of +4 mobs, but yeah it could be a problem. I main a Katana/Regen Scranker essentially, and make use of Provoke and Melee Radial to hold aggro for my team. So you can see why i want a taunt aura but heres my concern. 90% of people here arguing for taunt auras are doing it under the argument "runners suck" which, i agree. However this is a solo mindset, and we should not make changes solely based on the solo experience when they impact the group experience. So let me ask the question, is it okay for all Scrappers to be able to hold aggro for a team? If not, what we really need then, is some kind of "anti run" mechanic, a psudo taunt. This would probably require more effort on the devs part though, but i seem to recall some flags that dictate if a mob runs, perhaps they can make a power that just flips that flag?

All crit bonuses are additive to my knowledge.

On the argument of fun? I support this ( all you KB->KD purists make me sick! ❤️ ) On argument of balance, i don't see any issues? I don't recall why it was removed in the first place but I do know large knock back strength with ragdolls can get janky with the game's collision though so eh.

I will add, Project Will needs love. Wall of Force has value as a big chonky knockback wall, and Weaken Resolve is a great debuff, but Project Force has a long animation time, low damage, and inconsistent and low knockback. I'd love to see something done to make Project Will a more useful power, either boosting the knockback, adding some minor status, or just upping the damage. Arcane Bolt got a great improvement, hoping for something similar down the line but im sure it on the to-do list already.

Its worth keeping in mind how bad humans are at gauging probability. What seems like "i never crit" to you, could easily be, and given the games code on this matter, likely is, normal. Aetherial provided a reasonable example of the actual math and probability, and while its entirely possible you are just the one in a billion exception, its highly unlikely. I do recommend taking a look at how PPM mechanics work to help you understand where to put the Critical Strikes ATO, and the Scrapper's Strike ATO is a nice global boost, but what I really recommend, is dumping your combat log, or counting your hits until you've seen, say, 10 crits. Before either of those ATOs you should see 10 crits within 200 attacks on average, if yer getting less than that, then we can talk. Speaking for myself, I actually favor Critical Strikes in an AoE attack sometimes, because while the proc rate is lower, its per target. Katana for instance can get a ~30%ish proc rate on The Lotus Drops, per target, as long as I have 3 or more targets, its a better proc rate than any single target power. Not always great since small PBAoEs get dicy with hitting and killing AVs is less optimal, but when clearing packs of mobs, that and my high global recharge means I actually proc it on probably around 70-80% of my uses, resulting in loads of crits from my hardest hitting attacks. Trust me the scrapper inherit is fiiiiiiiine, it just doesn't afford you a lot of control over it. (Edit: Heres Bopper's excellent guide on the topic. Theres also a good calculator out there so to can fidn the actual chance of a proc triggering based on the stats of a power. )

This, all of this, minus the slightly aggressive tone going back and forth here. The forums make people who seek "The Meta" seems more significant than they really are. That shouldn't be surprising, people looking to get the absolute maximum out of a character build are more likely to seek feedback and information on the topic, run numbers, and discuss. Meanwhile the average player base is generally more interested in making a character that fits their concept, or play style. I routinely put together builds for a largish SG, and while that's still a small pool, its worth note that 90% of the builds i get asked to help on are "I want this, this, and this, and i know its not meta but how can i make it work and be strong on my budget?" So I think claiming that we have to design around the defense focus of the meta is false. Sure if you look at the data Leadership, Fighting, and Speed are the most common, but that's just as often because "Eh nothing else fits my character and the raw stats help" or "I wanna cast X as much as possible regardless of validity" or even just "Yeah my character has leadership skills and basic hand to hand training." If some people wanna always take the best bang for their buck defense powers, that's a decision they are allowed to make, but you cant put to much effort into developing around 'the meta' because at the end of the day the meta chasers will always find and do the optimal thing, and its not possible to make disparate systems 100% equal, its fools errand. Instead the goal is to get most builds within a certain percentage of the meta, while maximizing variety in ways of accomplishing that. I have several builds that can handle +4x8, even easily, without defense cap. Granted I think the gap between some builds is still to wide, but id much rather than have more ways to close that gap than slapping defense on everything.

There seems to be a misplaced vertice on the Vanguard boot type for pants. See attached image.

Are you going for a bit more PvP viability? The lack of Gaussians is weird, the fact that you have Rectified Retical instead for +perception is of very niche use in PvE. The eng/neg weakness could be shored up with 4 sets of Shield Wall, and you might be able to come out ahead by mixing in 4 sets of Reactive Armor as well. Alot of places you seem to be grabbing small regen bonuses but those are likely overshadowed by other options like Preventative Medicine's 2 slot 2.25% S/L resist. Your End per second is significant over what youll likely drain in combat too, which means lost slot value. Just the notes i spotted. To be clear the build probably be just fine, im just noting optimizations i see.

I personally find DB to lack impact, feeling like its just flailing without reason. That said, i have had a few and enjoyed them well enough. DB has more mastery involved, knowing when to use what combo, or if at all, while Katana can often be simplified down to a rotation or two. Overall though i tend to lean Katana due to my interest in martial arts and the fact that its the closest thing to "real" sword play in the game. Broad Sword is to sluggish and clubby, and DB is overly stylish. End the end id say try both and go with the one you like the aesthetics and mechanics of the most in practice.

That does sound fun, but ill note that defense and resistance are almost certainly going to result in superior effective health per second, but id need to slap it together to be certain.

So fun factoid about the Scrapper inherent, the power itself doesn't do anything. I'm sure this is well known by those who dig into the mechanics a lot, but the way Critical Hit works, is its actually an empty power and all Scrapper attacks have the critical chance worked directly into the power itself and use flags to communicate with the AT set procs if I'm not mistaken. While i always love having a little something extra, i have to concur with the general response that its just not needed. Scrappers are in a very good spot due to their raw numbers and the power of crits.

@Galaxy Brain Holy cow, thanks for that massive breakdown. I may need to DM you once i have something cooked up so we can merge or compare notes. I really wanna build a couple of calculators that take a number of armor sets and calculate EHP and EHP/s for each of them with and without given enhancements. Also i curse you because i am AGAIN revising my regen scrap's build, this will be the 9th time since i started counting. I actually disagree with the importance of MoG in factoring this. I like to use it, but realistically its a power I only use in dire circumstances on a Scrapper, when Soloing +4x8 and things go wrong. Thats like 90% of the time I need it. Given Regen's mechanics, using it at other times is largely pointless since you wernt going to die anyways. Thats why I dont think T9s as a rule, need to be considered when discussing the set as a whole. The majority of them are just only applicable in niche situations. This is very true, but to be fair, trying to represent this skill element is, essentially, an impossibility. At best one could write a complex bit of calculation code like the WoW raiding communities SimCraft. I think most of us can agree that, when distributing these reactive powers over their entire duration, we should get somewhere close to the other power sets. Perhaps lower, to pay for the fact that your burst survival is so great, but the average should be in the neighborhood. I actually really like this basic idea, though not necessarily the numbers or specific buffs. I'd love the idea of a "combo" driven armor set.

This is actually why I so aggressively push the idea of EHP and EHP/s. These two values cover the entire scope of an engagement by giving you a flat value that the raw incoming dps must exceed before a character even begins to fall, and then a total that can divided by that value to give a survival duration. This greatly simplifies the conversation by eliminating assumptions. That said some assumptions are still in play yes, namely that no auto hit powers are in play (to be fair those aren't super common else defense sets would be worthless), and that the damage is coming in a consistently, or rather, at least not in waves sufficient to take large percentages of your health all at once before your regen can work on the taken damage and even out the curve. In the end these factors don't come into play THAT much, as you still have EHP to measure against alpha situations, and if its just a case of the mob doing 10% of your hp with every attack, then you are only losing a survival time of one attack rotation at most. That is usually below 5 seconds, and well if you aren't going to last long enough for plus or minus 5 seconds to be an issue, yer gonna have a bad times regardless. As for the multiple mobs, that only applies to the above, a single mob doing 100 dps with a bunch of 10 damage attacks, and 10 mobs doing 10 dps each with slower attacks, are comparable to the point of irrelevance. The only reason "one mob" might matter is because USUALLY that one mob is doing one slow big hit which introduces the above. I want to note I feel those numbers for recharge are a bit off base, but it shouldn't effect your point to much. I'll agree MoG tends to be so reactive as to make assessing it as a distributed factor is a bit dubious due to its uptime, the build i used in my example accomplishes a ~17% up time, plus or minus some depending on Force Feedback procs. I also think you just treated it as a 75% resisst 45% defense when the effective values of those will be lower. That said, I don't think the uptime and recharge are the main reasons to not assess it, as I feel Instant Healing SHOULD be assessed in that way. The reason being IH should be used on cooldown much more often, and while MoG is easily one of the best T9 armor powers there is, its still an oft unused T9 Armor. I'll try to find some time later this week to mock up a full assessment with recharges and such considered.

Soooo.... tell me more about this spreadsheet....

Its a bit more complicated than that, if yer calculating effective hp/s the formula shifts to begin with. Personally I consider that the optimal way to quantify things because otherwise you have to assume a given dps value. More importantly though that equation doesn't account for the 15 seconds of active time. What you'd want is something like... ( ( ( HPs / ( 1 - ( 0.5 + Defense ) ) ) / ( 1 - Resistance ) ) * 15 ) / Recharge Since that's a lot of parens thats... HP per second, divided by the percentage chance of a hit getting through That divided by the percentage of the damage you would take That gives you the effective regen while MoG is up. You then take that and times it by 15 seconds, the duration of Mog Then finally take that value and divide it by the Recharge. However this doesnt factor in existing resistance and defense, so you need to FURTHER modify it like so ( ( ( HPs / ( 1 - ( 0.5 + ( MoG Defense - Base Defense ) ) ) / ( 1 - (MoG Resistance - Base Resistance) ) ) * 15 ) / Recharge This accounts for how much MoG is ACTUALLY giving and you obviously have to clamp those values to their caps.