Darmian

So, time to stand on the soapbox again - I'm crossposting a version of this in the Discord. Praetoria could "instantly" - for a given value of "instantly" involving lots of work and time - have two new zones added to it without breaking any canon/rules or what have you, if First Ward's and Night Ward's Undergrounds became available. No immediate need for figuring out why there's suddenly extra zones narratively. The zones themselves could be built using any combination of the existing Underground tile sets, with possible use of parts of the Underground incarnate trial sets. (<- presumption there). Plus could actually push Praetoria up to level 50 content, especially if the Night Ward version - what horrors are down THERE? - is treated a bit like the Abandoned Sewer Network.) Thoughts? Oh, and even in the First Ward version the lower you go the more DE it could get. Night Ward? Sheesh. Finally get the CTA station in First Ward open. And where does this door lead? Now, this is as an aside to any other discussion about expanding the level experience in Praetoria Proper (Nova/Imperial/Neutropolis).

"Fixing", yep. 🙂

The Emperor can hardly complain when the citizens ask for more Utopia!

Well, frankly the "facts" I think weren't the issue IMO, but the reveal was. Scooping into the narrative we don't know if any of the Resistance NPCs knew or didn't know so we can't say no one ever believed it to be true because it's never mentioned. However, right now it could be backfilled a bit with a few missions by HC that foreshadow that and ease you into that reveal. Which was still brutal. It was badly shown, but you could meta that by saying a vestige of Mayhem's cruelty was lingering in Aurora so that she had no empathy for the man. Anyway.

Fair point. I did use your post to stand on my own soapbox there, so no actual offense intended.

99 % agree...except for this bit, "good at the game". That is entirely subjective to how you play/want to play/enjoy playing. This isn't a professional sport. For instance I get my kicks spending ages in the AE writing stuff. Am I somehow bad at the game? No, not a personal attack actually. If you're going to address what I feel is a valid point, and make a good point about it, which you have by the way, then don't torpedo yourself like that. And I'm always amazed that people think any of that really matters! To plenty it does, and that baffles me. And there's plenty, I'm one, who do not give a shit. And that must surely baffle those who love to craft a build in MIDS/Pines/etc and then test it out. I'm not a new player and MY eyes will glaze over at all that, because it literally does not matter as long was we're having fun and no one is being a dick. Again, as per above not a personal attack at all. Just a contrary position stated.

People, a thought, and it is just a thought so bear with me. What if, I repeat what IF the devs were to decide that it's not 2021 in CoX? Suppose it's, I dunno - oh, had another thought, someone poke me about that later - 2013 or 2014? Tops? My thinking is setting the timeline back a bit gives them a lot more control over when things happen next and they can literally plan the "next year" or "next two years" out well, rather than stumbling into 2021/2022, like someone with a bag over their head and falliing over stuff.

How? The entire point of Goldside is to experience the story AS a Praetorian. That's it. Allowing Primals to "infiltrate" in the way you describe turns a side into a zone, and that's going backwards. That doesn't seem to me to give you more options but reduces the "native" Praetorian population further. This looks like a solution at first sight but I believe, and it's only my opinion mind, that it simply means Blue will swallow up Gold. And Blue/Red can already do every Gold arc/mission (apart from the repeatables) via ouro, something Golds cannot do in reverse.

Sounds good. But that defeats the entire point of Goldside.

Already filling in a tiny gap between the end of Neutropolis and crossover/going to First Ward with my own AEs (in signature, levels 19-24) Not attempted anything like a TF due to, as you say, limits. Especially of Praetorian map choices. With the best will in the world there's only so many Underground missions you want to see.

Well right now anyone can do First Ward, but it's the only 20-30 zone Praetorians can do,

That is an issue. Hmm. How about this? We need those two extra zones I spoke of, okay? And we basically keep the same story beats but now spread them out across 5 zones so you're still going to be finishing the finale Neutropolis arcs at the end of the story, but rather than at 19/20 it'll be 39/40? Some of the material will involve you going back to Nova/Imperial/Neutropolis, but that's narratively dealt with by saying you're going back to the capital/seat of power. And we fill around that with enough actual other material that's gold centric but effectively doesn't need to be done to follow the through line of the story arc.

Yes, I like this! Well, that's just like, your opinion, man. As the Dude would say.

I'd nuance that a bit more with the shunting to Rogue/Vig. There really should be a version of progression like the VEAT progression (complaints about that itself elsewhere please!) where once you cross over to either Red or Blue then you have an equivalent of Alain Desslock who is essentially your contact/probation officer on integrating you into the new life. We run into a conflict of character knowledge vs player knowledge here though. Right now you just head off and find contacts. How? The assumption for Primals is that they are keeping their ear to the ground and have some sort of basic networking going on. AS a Gold you know nothing. Ok, you've heard of stuff and if the proposed crossover missions were implemented then you might have been to Primal, but you still aren't from there and have no back up. So that's where I was going with that. I mean you get the doppelganger mission on Blue when you cross (can't remember what the Red is right now) but that is one and done, however cool it might be.

In an ideal world, yes. But you instantly run the danger of out levelling the existing content of Nova/Imperial/Neutropolis, and the story there is actually the main point of it, more so than Paragon or Rogue Isles.

We have them on Reunion. Yeah, Reunion's a bit odd like that. There's the dedicated "The Praetorians" SG (Only qualifier is you have to be Gold origin - you can still be a member after crossing though), and more recently The Hounds of Love SG have a spin off themed around The Wizard of Oz with all Gold side members.

Those planes on the Neutropolis airstrip have to fly SOMEWHERE!!!

Well, mostly the "current" timeline for Primal is shifting sands. It depends on what you're doing, where you are, mostly - along with personal canon I suppose - but I get off the Galaxy chopper after doing the tutorial and chatting to Sister Psyche only to find she's been dead for a while and there's some Yin upstart in her spot? WHUT? So, yeah. But Goldside is a lot tighter than that from Intro to the end of the Neutropolis arcs.

Oh, I also had the idea that there should be at least two (sort of!) Underground maps for Praetoria. First Ward and Night Ward. Who knows what weird horrors are down there? Any of the existing Underground maps could be adapted for these plus parts of the Underground incarnate trial map. Ick!

I'm invested in Gold Side a fair bit. (That avatar there is my main, a level 50 Gold who didn't leave). I think if anything were to be done that (a) maintained the existing 1 -20 zones of Nova/Imperial/Neutropolis then it would probably need to be an entirely new set of zones parallel in level to First Ward/Night Ward but still effectively pre War. (I can see that getting shot down fast by some though). Those two new zones would get you to roughly level 40. A final zone of 40-50 that sat on top of these and the FW/NW arc to follow, and then on into the Incarnate Trials. Crossover in the low levels? No, that doesn't swing right in my mind. Praetoria 1-20 is very definitely set in the past, there's no fudging that at all. It's pre War so it's at the latest, absolute latest, early to mid 2010. If it wasn't for the fact that all the dedicated badgers would complain I'd have Nova/Imperial/Neutropolis removed from the TUNNEL system so no Blues/Reds could ever get there, and I'd make it impossible to get back once the Rift mission is taken. Unless there was an actual time travel dedicated arc to do it, not ouro. As per @MTeague's suggestion? That sounds good, but again we're talking time travel here. Not impossible but not as easy as just wandering over. You COULD do it with a Quantum Leap (minus the body hopping) style set of missions. Go back and do such and such because if we don't then we lose the war, and we didn't lose the war so someone must have done it, but they didn't do it yet so we better do it now, and by now I mean then. Off you go! It's effectively low level Portal Corps missions. And I tackled the reverse myself in an AE (see below). Gold equivalents of Mayhem missions set during the war? Instanced attacks on Primal locations? Possibility of accolades too. As for adapting stuff for zones? There's rough material already in the code that might be usable. Time + Effort etc though. Scroll down through this to see what I mean. Praetorian Map Scales - General Discussion - Homecoming (homecomingservers.com) And some of us keep the flame going. I've got a Loyalist AE trilogy (level 19-24) and so far 2 Resistance AE arcs (level 19-24) set pre War for Golds who don't want to leave just yet but perhaps aren't ready to wander around the ruins of First Ward. Details in my sig. (And yes, they're designed to fit in to the existing canon as much as possible.)

The only map with a really good beach is a Grandville one. So unless you can handwave away the giant building as some sort of Red Skull castle it's not suitable.

North Africa? Sheesh. Are you looking for an outdoor map? If so I cannot think of a single one that would fit that.

Glad to have another returner!

I've said this lots of times elsewhere. After Red Widow's return and Statesman's death, Lord Recluse reforms (as in realigns internally rather than going heroic) Arachnos and the Etoile Islands. Pull back troops from Siren's Call. Retakes Bloody Bay and Warburg, now that Blitz is out of the picture, as full red side zones, and officially hands over control to "Prime Minister" Daos. Apart from appearances in existing TFs/SFs we shouldn't see him at all. Where is he? Who knows? MYSTERY! Arachnos reforming and being more like a "real" government might give more agency to players on Redside too. Longbow kicked out of Mercy due to this new realpolitik by order of a negotiated UN decision. Praetoria. A few loose ends to tidy up there. None of which should involve Cole donning Statesman's costume, what a stupid idea. Mechanically - but it would piss off badgers - I'd remove the 1 -20 sections of Praetoria from all TUNNEL access and have the entrance to it from First Ward sealed to non Praetorians (like the alignment doors in PD). In this case non-Praetorians includes Praetorians who crossed over to Primal. I'd also lock the Gold side ouro missions of 1 - 20 so only Praetorians who have not crossed over can do them. Again, that would piss off badgers. Kallisti!!! That's what we're waiting for!!

The second in a trilogy of pre War SFMA Praetorian AEs based around the Resistance. A full scale invasion of Praetoria by Primal Earth is imminent and the Resistance is ready for the fight. Almost. The Resistance has a leadership problem and Belladonna Vetrano wants it dealt with. Fast. (Levels 19 - 24)