Rudra

If you are solo, can't afford the Signature Summons, and need to call in help because you need a tank or melee DPS to help deal with a tough Archvillain, you still have the option of calling for help on a chat channel. A lot of players are more than happy to say yes. And I have never seen them stick around for any longer than the requesting player needs. (I've asked for help many times, had someone pop in to lend me hand, smack down the problem, and wish me well as they returned to whatever else they were doing previously.) Edit: There are also other temporary powers that can be purchased from the START vendor for significantly less that makes taking down problematic targets much easier. Edit again: Or, if it is specifically a tough AV giving you problems, you can turn off AVs for that mission and clear it as an EB. Maybe even lower the level adjustment to give you more of an edge.

That was actually my point to the individual in question. That the individual in question is using either someone else or a level 46+ on another account of said individual to bypass the 'cost of entry' for a badge the individual claims has none. I don't care if people use alternate accounts to help achieve whatever goals they set for themselves. Just the dishonesty of claiming that no such considerations exist.

You get the Invader badge at level 1? The badge you get by getting all the Mayhem mission explores? With the Mayhem missions all having different minimum and maximum levels to get with the first Mayhem mission not being available until level 5 and can't be finished until level 46 unless you have the Hero Slayer badge and are at least level 10 to be able to talk to Lord Schweinzer. (Edit: Hells, even if you unlock Lord Schweinzer at level 10, you still can't finish Invader solo until level 46 because Mayhems are still not available to players until their character is at least of the correct level for it through him.) You get all the Mayhem mission explores, at level 1, as a red sider? Yourself? No one else helped you?

I'm running the Robert Kogan arc again and talking to Old Tire Fire I'm left wondering.... Why don't we just fake arrest him? Why isn't that an option? I mean, he's already pretty talkative and friendly towards the character, and on an earlier encounter you can very much convince him you are working with Altruist Division, so why can't we just claim to be fake arresting him for Altruist Division, evacuate him and the other criminals turned actors, and then go about our business of blowing up the building? It shouldn't take that much work to include that as part of the dialogue tree and then add the results to the mission completion dialogue tree, should it? (Edit: Bonus points if your character can arrange it so that Crey is still forced to pay Old Tire Fire for being fake arrested by you. Making Crey dance to our tune for a change would be nice. Like maybe he ends up telling Blackwing that he was caught by the Altruists when he evacuates as part of you fake arresting him. Crey would get positive press for the arrest, sure, but they would still find themselves in the bombed warehouse.) Edit: And as someone else mentioned in some thread I don't remember how long ago, it would be really nice if the optional objective to warn Old Tire Fire would actually clear when, you know, you warned Old Tire Fire....

Robert Kogan's second mission, when you talk to Old Tire Fire for the first time, says: From back when you were just starting out, here on Primal Earth! You can't place exactly which group he were working with, but he's definitely not from Praetoria. It should read "You can't place exactly which group he was working with, but he's definitely not from Praetoria."

Except I always see the same thing, just with different summary labels. The KD powers say Mag 0.67 KB but the summary labels on the powers summary page will change between "Foe Knockdown" and "Foe Knockback" depending on power set. Edit: Which leads to the current situation with @Troo where seemingly the power's actual data is disregarded in favor of the summary label which is inconsistently applied.

Robert Kogan's first mission to investigate the Skulls' Superadine lab has a Skull say" [NPC] Death Head Slicer: Say("Morana'd be pissed if she knew we were doing this.") Looks like the say command is incorrectly implemented.

Didn't bother with the wiki. Thanks for pointing that out. (Edit: That makes this an already recognized issue. So this thread can be dropped.)

Kick [Melee, DMG(Smash), Synergy, Foe Knockdown] You strike your opponent with a forceful kick that causes moderate smashing damage and has a small chance to knock opponents down. Knockdown is often represented as Mag (0.67 * Melee_Ones) to Knockback (all affected targets). See examples Chop from Axe Melee or Vengeful Slice from Dual Blades. The attribute is called 'knockback'. I don't think there is a 'knockdown' attribute. We used to have a 'knockup' attribute but it went away with the new vectored knock system was implemented in 2020. Sure, it would be clearer if the attribute was represented as 'knock' or 'kknock' but that's just not how it is. Now instead of just reading the label, click the power and see what it says it does. It literally says for Kick, Cross Punch, Punch, and Haymaker "Mag +0.67 to Knockback (all affected targets)". All four powers say exactly the same thing. The only difference between them are the percentages on the blue subheader bar. Edit: Whomever is maintaining City of Data has the bad habit of being inconsistent in applying "Foe Knockdown" versus "Foe Knockback" labels on the summary page for powers that do KD.

Aren't you one of the ones that always argues with me whenever I tell anyone else the same thing? Given how often I get pushback on that, for the time being, I'm leaving this here. If a GM disagrees and moves it? Oh well.

It's not a beacon issue. In the 'Alone in the Darque' arc from Efficiency Expert Pither, all three missions have set doors you go to. The first one is always in Cap au Diable. The second and third are always in Grandville. The second mission's entrance popup, when you enter the mission, makes comment about Aeon's lab not being part of the regular Cap au Diable tourist stops. I get the impression that it was originally meant to send you back to Cap au Diable like the first mission does, but it always sends you to the Aeon Corp. office in Grandville. Now, I can file this request as a bug report and I'm perfectly fine with doing so. However, just in case, I am filing it as a suggestion to align the popup text with the mission location. (Edit: And if a GM decides it is better filed as a bug report and moves it, it won't break my heavily carbonized circulatory pump in the slightest.)

Zone/Mission: V_OUTDOOR_SHADOW_CHANTRY Position: [-790.1 1467.1 412.6] The walls and floor don't meet, letting you view open space, all the way around the walkway.

In the 'Alone in the Darque' arc from Efficiency Expert Pither, the second mission sends you after Dr. Aeon. It always sends you to the Aeon Corp. building in Grandville, but the entrance popup says Cap au Diable. I request changing the entrance popup to say Grandville since the mission always sends you to the same door in Grandville.

Except that Kick and Cross Punch are still using KB just like Super Strength. Both sets' powers are set at Mag 0.67 KB. Feel free to view various effects however you want. However, arguing that Fighting is better than Super Strength because it has the same effect applied the same way makes absolutely no sense. (Edit: Especially since the set you say does not get the edge has the better chance of applying it.) You know as well as I do that attack powers in the game include their damage and their secondary effects for balance. So no, a simpler comparison is not simpler. It is biased. In the end, it doesn't really matter as long as everyone involved knows where the numbers are coming from. Going from Tankers to Brutes changes two things: the damage values for the respective attacks and the -DEF from Slash. (That -DEF change is -7.0% for Tankers and -7.5% for Brutes.) So the argument doesn't change (much), as long as what is being debated is known. Edit: And for clarification, the data for Brutes at level 50 is: Jab: 28.36 (Mids)/28.3619 (CoD) damage, 10% chance Mag 2 Stun for 7.152 seconds, 1.07 sec cast, 2.0 sec recharge, 3.536 END cost Punch: 41.71 (Mids)/41.7087 (CoD) damage, 30% chance Mag 0.67 KB, 1.2 sec cast, 4 sec recharge, 5.2 END cost Haymaker: 68.4 (Mids)/68.4023 (CoD) damage, 60% Mag 0.67 KB, 1.5 sec cast, 8 sec recharge, 8.528 END cost Boxing: 31.7 (Mids)/31.699 (CoD) damage, 10% chance Mag 2 Stun for 4.768 seconds, 1.07 sec cast, 2.5 sec recharge, 4.42 END cost Boxing maxed: 41.21 (Mids)/41.21 (CoD math) damage Kick: 35.03 (Mids)/35.035 (CoD) damage, 15% chance Mag 0.67 KB, 1.83 sec cast, 3 sec recharge, 4.94 END cost Kick maxed: 45.54 (Mids)/45.5455 (CoD math) damage Cross Punch: 52.97 (Mids)/52.97 (CoD) damage, 50 degree cone, 5 target cap, 40% chance Mag 0.67 KB, 1.67 cast, 8 sec recharge, 10.66 END cost Cross Punch maxed: 68.86 (Mids)/68.861 (CoD math) damage Swipe: 34.62 (Mids)/34.6182 (CoD) damage, 0.83 sec cast, 2.4 sec recharge, 3.494 END cost Strike: 51.72 (Mids)/51.7188 (CoD) damage, 1.17 sec cast, 4.8 sec recharge, 5.491 END cost Slash: 61.73 (Mids)/61.7288 (CoD) damage, -7.5% defense for 10 seconds, 1.33 sec cast, 6.4 sec recharge, 6.822 END cost

I disagree with your rounding, as in I disagree that the numbers should be rounded, but thanks. At least now I know where your numbers are coming from.

Didn't turn up on a search for Sunstorm, so: In the mission briefing to go after Sunstorm from Abyss (Light and Darkness arc), she says: I don't care how you split up your share of the loot with your buddies, but that's not my problem. The "but" in that statement is superfluous. She states at the start she doesn't care, so she doesn't need a disclaimer to state otherwise at the end. It should simply be: I don't care how you split up your share of the loot with your buddies, that's not my problem.

Did a search for "void" and this did not turn up, so: In the "Retrieve Void Hunter Rifles" mission from Abyss, the entrance popup says: This is a big warehouse, if the Council is here it may take them a while to find the exact crate It is missing a comma and period. It should read as: This is a big warehouse, if the Council is here, it may take them a while to find the exact crate.

I am not and have never in this discussion looked at it as 3+3. All I am saying is that the arguments you are decrying as derailment are not derailments and that if anyone wants to argue to buff any powers, they need to give an honest comparison. As you said, this is your opinion. However, it is still part of the powers being debated, and so must be considered. Then why did you bring up the improved recharge rates? Edge goes to Fighting pool?! The Super Strength powers in question with KB are doing KD levels of KB. The Fighting powers in question doing KD are KD levels of KB. So how are you assigning the edge to Fighting? (Edit: Both sets are doing KB. At equal levels.) I don't know why the arcanatimes are different, thank you for pointing that out. And now I will point out that Super Strength is still faster than Fighting with arcanatime. So that doesn't really change anything for my presentation. Haymaker -vs- Cross Punch Head to Head - Single Target is a push, maybe but not really a little edge to Haymaker 2 or more targets = Cross Punch. It isn't even close. With Boxing and Kick, Cross Punch's +Acc, +Rech, +Dam.. wow. You are trying to remove components from the powers to improve your argument. That is not a fair comparison and you know it. I am not arguing against changes to Super Strength, I am arguing against dishonest arguments to change Super Strength. And why did you scratch out the 30% chance of KD of Punch versus the 15% chance of KD from Kick? There is no way I will believe you think a 30% chance of scoring a KD is not a tangible benefit. Or the 60% chance from Haymaker versus the 40% chance from Cross Punch. This argument strikes me as very dishonest. Where are you getting your numbers from? Again, damage from Mids and City of Data is as follows: (Using a level 50 Tanker as reference) Jab: 35.92 (Mids)/35.9251 (CoD) damage Punch: 52.83 (Mids)/52.8311 (CoD) damage Haymaker: 86.64 (Mids)/86.643 (CoD) damage Boxing: 40.15 (Mids)/40.152 (CoD) damage (Maxed from all three powers: 52.2 (Mids)/52.195 (CoD math) damage) Kick: 44.38 (Mids)/44.378 (CoD) damage (Maxed from all three powers: 57.69 (Mids)/57.694 (CoD math) damage) Cross Punch: 67.09 (Mids)/67.095 (CoD) damage (Maxed from all three powers: 87.22 (Mids)/87.2235 (CoD math) damage) Swipe: 43.85 (Mids)/43.8498 (CoD) damage Strike: 65.51 (Mids)/65.5106 (CoD) damage Slash: 78.19 (Mids)/78.19 (CoD) damage It sure looks like Claws is outdoing Super Strength, doesn't it? Except: Swipe: 43.85 (Mids)/43.8498 (CoD) damage, 0.83 sec cast, 2.4 sec recharge, 3.494 END cost Jab: 35.92 (Mids)/35.9251 (CoD) damage, 10% chance Mag 2 Stun for 7.152 secs, 1.07 sec cast, 2.0 sec recharge, 3.536 END cost Strike: 65.51 (Mids)/65.5106 (CoD) damage, 1.17 sec cast, 4.8 sec recharge, 5.491 END cost Punch: 52.83 (Mids)/52.8311 (CoD) damage, 30% chance Mag 0.67 KB, 1.2 sec cast, 4 sec recharge, 5.2 END cost Slash: 78.19 (Mids)/78.19 (CoD) damage, -7% defense for 10 seconds, 1.33 sec cast, 6.4 sec recharge, 6.822 END cost Haymaker: 86.64 (Mids)/86.643 (CoD) damage, 60% Mag 0.67 KB, 1.5 sec cast, 8 sec recharge, 8.528 END cost Now Claws aren't beating Super Strength. You have to look at all the components or you are not giving a fair comparison. Edit again: If Rage is to be ignored because it benefits the Fighting Pool attacks as much as it does Super Strength attacks, then the +ACC and +RECH from the Fighting pool has to be ignored because it also benefits the Super Strength attacks. Not as a 3+3 thing, but as a 1+2 thing. Because no matter how you look at it, you HAVE to start with Jab or Punch, and Cross Punch will buff those as much as it buffs any other attack. And as far as the +DAM goes? That has already been addressed. With all components considered, it does not outclass Super Strength. (Factor the +ACC and +RECH into your build calculus, certainly. However, you can't declare one universal buff invalid for consideration and retain another for arguing with. Because like you and the author have stated, you can have both.)

If Rage is not to be considered a factor because it buffs all attacks, then the recharge and accuracy buffs from Cross Punch also have to dropped as factors for buffing all attacks. @Troo made improved recharge a part of his/her/their argument. (Edit again: And only applied it to the Fighting pool.) The Fighting attacks are fine. If they were overpowered, people wouldn't be constantly suggesting "let me take Tough without Boxing or Kick." As far as I can tell, this is mostly just an issue with Super Strength, and especially since Jab became skippable on Tanks. Just make Jab a better power. If you want to buff anything from Super Strength, then you need to provide an honest comparison of the powers. And that means all components of the powers.

But they don't. At least not Punch and Haymaker when looked at individually. And @Troo even included that comparison. Here, let's do a breakdown: Tanker: Jab: 35.92 (Mids)/35.9251 (CoD) damage, 10% chance Mag 2 Stun for 7.152 secs, 1.07 sec cast, 2.0 sec recharge, 3.536 END cost Punch: 52.83 (Mids)/52.8311 (CoD) damage, 30% chance Mag 0.67 KB, 1.2 sec cast, 4 sec recharge, 5.2 END cost Haymaker: 86.64 (Mids)/86.643 (CoD) damage, 60% Mag 0.67 KB, 1.5 sec cast, 8 sec recharge, 8.528 END cost Boxing: 40.15 (Mids)/40.152 (CoD) damage, 10% chance Mag 2 Stun for 4.768 secs, 1.07 sec cast, 2.5 sec recharge, 4.42 END cost Kick: 44.38 (Mids)/44.378 (CoD) damage, 15% chance Mag 0.67 KB, 1.83 sec cast, 3 sec recharge, 4.94 END cost Cross Punch: 67.09 (Mids)/67.095 (CoD) damage, 50 degree cone, 5 target cap, 40% chance Mag 0.67 KB, 1.67 cast, 8 sec recharge, 10.66 END cost Jab does less damage than Boxing, but the Stun lasts almost twice as long, is faster to get off, is faster to recover, and costs less to use. I never bothered checking, but I could have sworn that the accuracy and recharge boosts from having Boxing, Kick, and Cross Punch was across all powers, not just those three. City of Data even supports this by showing a global boost to recharge and accuracy as opposed to the power specific damage increases for those powers. So if you are going to ignore Rage for being universal in application, then you have to ignore the accuracy and recharge boosts from the Fighting pool's attacks too. Which leaves you with the damage consideration. Using that, having Boxing, Kick, and Cross Punch changes to the following on that same Tanker: Boxing: 52.2 (Mids)/52.195 (CoD math) damage Kick: 57.69 (Mids)/57.694 (CoD math) damage Cross Punch: 87.22 (Mids)/87.2235 (CoD math) damage At this point, Jab does decidedly less damage than Boxing, equal chance to Stun, Stun lasts almost twice as long still, equal cast time, faster recharge, and less END cost. Punch does slightly less damage than Kick, still has double the chance for a KD, is still faster to cast, is 1 sec slower on recharge, and costs slightly more in END. Haymaker does negligibly less damage than Cross Punch, still has a 20% better chance of KD, is still faster to cast, has equal recharge, hits up to 4 less targets, and costs less END. This is a much more fair evaluation than "hey, the damage for Jab, Punch, and Haymaker isn't the same or better than Boxing, Kick, and Cross Punch when you have all three Fighting pool attack powers." If you want to argue for a buff? Then first, you run the risk of getting Fighting pool attacks nerfed, but also at least be honest about the comparisons.

First, talking about how Jab, Punch, and Haymaker as part of the Super Strength set were designed to be more dependent on Rage than other melee sets despite Rage bolstering all powers' damage versus Boxing, Kick, and Cross Punch being stronger when all three are taken is not a derailment of topic. It is the topic. Second, the OP clearly states it is looking at the empowered from having all three of Boxing, Kick, and Cross Punch to see them at their strongest while ignoring Jab, Punch, and Haymaker at their strongest. (Edit: A true three versus three comparison would look at them individually to be fair.) (Edit again: Or barring that, look at the Fighting Pool versus the Super Strength pool since the OP is basically comparing a pool to three powers. That wouldn't be fair to Fighting since it is a power pool and not a primary pool, but it would be a more fair comparison.) (Edit yet again: Hells, the title is literally Super Strength vs the Fighting pool! But the OP doesn't look at Super Strength.) Third, Boxing, Kick, and Cross Punch were changed to bolster each other and Brawl when taken in conjunction specifically because they were deemed to be ineffectually weak before the change. So now we are crossing over into power creep discussions. Fourth, if the OP really wanted to make an argument to bolster Jab, Punch, and Haymaker from Super Strength, then the OP should have evaluated Super Strength as a set versus other melee sets instead of cherry picking for effect. Yet another edit: You edited your post, so I need to address that part too. When I hear people talking about something looking better for someone's character, I think visuals. In this case, that would be animations. Which the OP says nothing about. (This would a derailment from you.) If your comment about looking better is the damage aspect though? We can go back to my preceding comments in this post.

Except the OP is comparing Boxing, Kick, and Cross Punch when all three are picks of the character knowing each pick bolsters the other two, while ignoring the feature in Super Strength whose purpose is to do the same thing: Rage. Yes, Rage is a universal buff for the character, but it has already been established that Rage is established as an intended for use power to bolster Super Strength. It is the only Build Up style power in any of the sets with a two minute duration. Edit: Look at Boxing, Kick, and Cross Punch individually versus Jab, Punch, and Haymaker without Rage, and the scales shift the other way.

Night Ward is a separate dimension. It is the spirit realm where part of First Ward merged with it. That part of First Ward is no longer part of Praetoria itself, it is now part of the spirit realm. This is stated repeatedly across the Night Ward missions. Because a comment was made earlier in the thread that the Primal Earth Midnighters would help evacuate the Night Ward Midnighters. Who have no reason to be evacuated. Which is my point. They are separate dimensions. Not temporal divergences like was argued earlier by someone else. Only partially true. The Drudges are upset that their ability to move souls along their way is disrupted, yes. However, if you listen to the comments and read what is going on in several missions, they are also upset that the living are showing up in the spirit realm. And they very much work to rectify that every time they meet your character. (Except in specific missions where the leadership learns to leave you alone or else.) Not so weird. The preparations for the war are happening in secure locations of Praetoria. When you get the mission to go to Primal Earth at level 20, that is the end of the Praetorian side of the story for the war at this time. When you go to First Ward, you are going to an area abandoned to the Hamidon by Emperor Cole where he sends people to be disappeared and let DUST practice freely out of view. There is no reason for any war related content in First Ward because of that fact. Add in the other shenanigans going on like the Talons of Vengeance being set free, and First Ward has much greater concerns than an invasion Emperor Cole may be planning on another dimension. As your character is told when asked to go to First Ward, everyone there is already just trying to survive. No one has time to care about anything happening back at the BAF or Lambda facility. I don't have issues with more Praetorian content being added. I never did. I only care that any new content not ignore or skip existing story like keeps getting asked. For instance, asking to just be able to go to the RWZ and do the Last Bastion arc. Praetorians haven't even gotten to the fall of Praetoria, let alone after when Hamidon turns his attention to the remaining pockets of humanity. Let any new content either continue to explore pre-war content or at least get caught up to the war. Once we reach the war gold side, then we can look at content that gets players through the war. After trans-war content, then we look at post-war content like letting gold siders access Number Six and the Last Bastion arc because they will finally be caught up.

You are making my point for me. Because that means that the Midnighters of Primal Earth have no reason to bother with Night Ward because they already have their own concerns with the Rikti, the spirit realm of Primal Earth, and the Circle of Thorns. Further, Hamidon has no stated interest in the realm of the dead. So as far as anyone retreating to Night Ward to escape Hamidon? They are now perfectly safe from him and the Devouring Earth of Praetoria. On the other hand, the Drudges very much care about the living being present in Night Ward and are quite eager to render your character (edit: and any fleeing First Worders) into the correct state to be there: deceased. And that is even before you get to the point that I made and has still not been addressed, that the Praetorian story, for Praetorian characters, still doesn't even get to the war. So how are you going to just jump past the war straight to the refugee Praetorians from Hamidon's onslaught now living on Primal Earth? The Shadow Shard is before the war. If the devs want to create Praetorian Shadow Shard content? By all means. At least that content wouldn't simply be skipping past all the story established in the game.

It specifically tells you in the game that when you enter Night Ward, you have entered the spirit realm. Coyote himself says as much. It is a Praetorian zone in that it is considered Praetorian content, it is a gold side zone, but it is not part of Praetoria. And the missions in the game tell you so. Edit: Just like the Shadow Shard is a group of blue side zones, but is not part of Paragon City. It is a completely separate dimension.