Blackfeather

November 11, 2020

I’ve written up a proposal for improving Mind Control before, and this is done in the same vein, except with a cooler twist – there’s another Control Primary powerset out there that could do with some love (something that I’ve mentioned in my thread to allow Controllers to lock down AVs/GMs): Ice Control! As for why I decided to look at improvements to this powerset in particular, read on.

Ice Control: The Competition Heats Up

Unlike Mind Control, it’s a fairly standard Control set, with five of its powers following the regular pattern: one single target/AoE Hold and Immobilize, along with a pet power as its capstone. Additionally, its secondary effect can be quite potent. Its combined powers provide enough -Recharge/-Movement to slow most enemies to a crawl, and attack as much as four times slower.

Given that, it’s what Ice Control’s other four powers do cumulatively that make it hold up somewhat less well compared to the other Control primaries. Generally, most of them have an early way of locking down groups of enemies for a prolonged period of time, even before their AoE Hold comes into play:

Control Primary	Power Name	Effect	Level
Darkness	Heart of Darkness	PBAoE Stun	12
Earth	Stalagmites	AoE Stun	12
Electric	Static Field	Patch AoE Sleep	12
Fire	Flashfire	AoE Stun	12
Illusion	Phantom Army	Decoy Summon	18
Plant	Seeds of Confusion	Cone Confuse	8

The only exceptions to this are Mind and Gravity Control, which are both more damage focused than the other powersets – they get their other lockdown power at level 26 (Terrify and Wormhole respectively).

Ice Control: Slow on the Uptake

By level 12, most Control powersets have ways of immediately locking enemies down hard and for prolonged periods of times, preventing them from acting against players. In comparison, Ice Control at this level gets:

Arctic Air (6), a solid PBAoE Confuse toggle: useful, but slow acting, giving enemies time to retaliate
Shiver (8), a potent Recharge/Movement debuff: useful in prolonged fights, but does nothing against the initial wave of attacks
Ice Slick (12), a location based knockdown patch: great at keeping enemies on the floor, but doesn’t immediately stop them from attacking the user

The only power that bucks this trend is Flash Freeze, gained at level 18, which puts a group of enemies to sleep. Unfortunately, this does little in the way of locking down a group for a prolonged period of time, an issue it shares with other Sleep powers, given how the effect is broken via damage, or even being knocked down.

A pattern comes into play here. Ice Control excels in long, drawn out fights, due to being able to slow down the amount of damage that comes their way over time via its recharge and movement debuffs. However, it also lacks an immediate way of persistently locking down enemies, resulting in more damage taken from the unmitigated initial attacks.

This leads on to the meat of this proposal, mainly figuring out a way of locking down enemies at an early level while keeping Ice Control’s main strength of working well against prolonged fights. Every other aspect of this proposal is secondary to this.

Powerset Revamp: Ice Control

Ice Control has received a number of changes aimed at improving its ability to initially lock down the battlefield, something that almost all other Control powersets are capable of doing from a low level. In addition, there are now more avenues for it to deal damage, placing it more in line with other Control powersets.

Power Changes

Shiver: Ranged (Cone), Foe -Recharge, -SPD, Foe Knockdown, Moderate DMG(Cold)
- Inflicts knockdown on enemies
- Deals moderate Cold damage
- Half of the slow persists for 60 seconds (same as the changes to Blaster's version of this)
- Can now be slotted with Knockback and Targeted AoE enhancements
Ice Slick: Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe Knockdown -SPD, -Jump
- Can now be slotted with Slow enhancements
- Can now be slotted with Knockback enhancements
Flash Freeze: Ranged (Targeted AoE), Minor DMG(Cold/Lethal), Foe Sleep, Summon Ice Formations
- Each affected enemy now summons a fragile, short lived ice formation
  - Summoned icicles apply -Recharge and -Movement in a small area
  - Has a small aura of immobilisation and taunt that affects the targeted enemy
  - Deals minor Cold/Lethal damage to targeted enemy if prematurely destroyed
- Can now be slotted with Taunt and Slow enhancements
Glacier: PBAoE, Foe Hold, -Recharge, -SPD
- Duration of -SPD debuff increased to 24 seconds

Alteration Justifications

The main change of note here is Shiver, which is meant to act as a go-to opener for Ice Control in most cases, allowing it to cut down the amount of actual attackers in play from the start. I was initially quite inspired by Poison’s Neurotoxic Breath power, which is similar in nature to Shiver, except with a small chance to Hold an enemy (25%, Mag 2).

Currently, it has more similarities with Force Field's Repulsion Bomb, a power that also knocks enemies down while inflicting some damage. This should help make Shiver a relatively reliable opener, while also being extremely short lasting. Combined with the other Recharge/Movement debuffs that Ice Control is capable of, any attacks after the initial burst should be fairly infrequent, or give time for Arctic Air’s confuse to kick in.

Additionally, some damage to the power provides Controllers with a little more means of whittling down opponents somewhat faster, something of an issue for Control powersets in general, but especially the case for Ice.

In that vein, Flash Freeze also received similar changes – Sleeps tend to be more effective when combined with other more lasting effects (Electric Control’s Static Field is a nice example of this). By creating fragile summons that apply slow debuffs and taunt, even enemies who prematurely wake up from being put to sleep will still end up being occupied for a little longer, attacking the constructs that trapped them in the first place.

Other than that, the changes to Ice Slick are meant to provide Ice Control with more slotting options (Shiver and Flash Freeze included). Similarly, Glacier’s recharge/speed debuff duration is surprisingly low for its recharge and duration – only 10 seconds, which even Ice Control’s single target hold exceeds.

Ice Control: Now Even Cooler

And these are the changes that I’d make to Ice Control – modifications designed to fill in some gaps in its toolbox, as well as improve its existing abilities and strengths. In other words, it attempts to keep its previous feel while also improving its speed and effectiveness.

With this all written up, I turn to the forums: what do you think? Is this something that you’d like done to Ice Control? Does it bring it in line with the other Control powersets, is it too much, not enough? Would you do something else entirely? Looking forward to everybody’s responses!

November 11, 2020

Shortform Build

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Gravity Control
Secondary Power Set: Pain Domination
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lift -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), Apc-Dmg(3), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), Apc-Acc/Rchg(5), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Apc-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Nullify Pain -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(7), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(9), Prv-Heal/Rchg(9), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(11), Prv-Absorb%(11)
Level 2: Gravity Distortion -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(13), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(13), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(15)
Level 4: Share Pain -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 6: Propel -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(17), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(17), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(19)
Level 8: Crushing Field -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(21), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Rgn-Knock%(23)
Level 10: Recall Friend -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 12: Dimension Shift -- SprOvrPrs-EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprOvrPrs-Rchg/Energy Font(25)
Level 14: Teleport -- BlsoftheZ-Travel(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(25), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(27)
Level 16: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(27)
Level 18: Gravity Distortion Field -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(29), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(31), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(31)
Level 20: Soothing Aura -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(33), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(33), Pnc-Heal(33), Pnc-Heal/+End(34)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 24: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Wormhole -- SuddAcc--KB/+KD(A), AbsAmz-Stun(34), AbsAmz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(36), AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(36), AbsAmz-EndRdx/Stun(36), AbsAmz-ToHitDeb%(37)
Level 28: World of Pain -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(37), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(37), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(39), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 30: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(39), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(40), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40), UnbGrd-Max HP%(40)
Level 32: Singularity -- BldMnd-Acc/Dmg(A), BldMnd-Dmg/EndRdx(42), BldMnd-Acc/EndRdx(42), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), BldMnd-Acc(43), BldMnd-Dmg(43)
Level 35: Anguishing Cry -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), TchofLadG-%Dam(43), ShlBrk-%Dam(45), ShlBrk-Acc/DefDeb(45), ShlBrk-Acc/Rchg(45), ShlBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 38: Indomitable Will -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 41: Mind Over Body -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(46), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(46), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 44: Weave -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(48), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(48), Rct-Def/Rchg(50), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50), Rct-ResDam%(50)
Level 47: Long Range Teleport -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Painbringer -- RgnTss-Regen+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- UnbLea-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(15)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
------------

Longform Build

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Gravity Control
Secondary Power Set: Pain Domination
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lift

[*] (A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge
[*] (3) Apocalypse - Damage
[*] (3) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
[*] (5) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Recharge
[*] (5) Apocalypse - Damage/Endurance
[*] (7) Apocalypse - Chance of Damage(Negative)
Level 1: Nullify Pain

[*] (A) Preventive Medicine - Heal
[*] (7) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance
[*] (9) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime
[*] (9) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime
[*] (11) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance
[*] (11) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb
Level 2: Gravity Distortion

[*] (A) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Hold
[*] (13) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Recharge
[*] (13) Basilisk's Gaze - Recharge/Hold
[*] (15) Basilisk's Gaze - Endurance/Recharge/Hold
Level 4: Share Pain

[*] (A) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
Level 6: Propel

[*] (A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge
[*] (17) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown
[*] (17) Superior Winter's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
[*] (19) Superior Winter's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
[*] (19) Superior Winter's Bite - Damage/Endurance/Accuracy/RechargeTime
Level 8: Crushing Field

[*] (A) Ragnarok - Damage
[*] (21) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
[*] (21) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Recharge
[*] (23) Ragnarok - Damage/Endurance
[*] (23) Ragnarok - Chance for Knockdown
Level 10: Recall Friend

[*] (A) Winter's Gift - Slow Resistance (20%)
Level 12: Dimension Shift

[*] (A) Superior Overpowering Presence - Endurance/RechargeTime
[*] (25) Superior Overpowering Presence - RechargeTime/Energy Font
Level 14: Teleport

[*] (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range
[*] (25) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance
[*] (27) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
Level 16: Hover

[*] (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
[*] (27) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
Level 18: Gravity Distortion Field

[*] (A) Superior Will of the Controller - Accuracy/Control Duration
[*] (29) Superior Will of the Controller - Control Duration/Recharge
[*] (29) Superior Will of the Controller - Endurance/Recharge
[*] (31) Superior Will of the Controller - Accuracy/Control Duration/Endurance
[*] (31) Superior Will of the Controller - Accuracy/Control Duration/Endurance/Recharge
[*] (31) Superior Will of the Controller - Recharge/Chance for Psionic Damage
Level 20: Soothing Aura

[*] (A) Panacea - Heal/Endurance
[*] (33) Panacea - Endurance/Recharge
[*] (33) Panacea - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
[*] (33) Panacea - Heal
[*] (34) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
Level 22: Hasten

[*] (A) Recharge Reduction IO
[*] (34) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 24: Kick

[*] (A) Empty
Level 26: Wormhole

[*] (A) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown
[*] (34) Absolute Amazement - Stun
[*] (36) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge
[*] (36) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Recharge
[*] (36) Absolute Amazement - Endurance/Stun
[*] (37) Absolute Amazement - Chance for ToHit Debuff
Level 28: World of Pain

[*] (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
[*] (37) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
[*] (37) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance
[*] (39) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
[*] (39) Unbreakable Guard - Endurance/RechargeTime
Level 30: Tough

[*] (A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
[*] (39) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
[*] (40) Unbreakable Guard - Endurance/RechargeTime
[*] (40) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
[*] (40) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP
Level 32: Singularity

[*] (A) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage
[*] (42) Blood Mandate - Damage/Endurance
[*] (42) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Endurance
[*] (42) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
[*] (43) Blood Mandate - Accuracy
[*] (43) Blood Mandate - Damage
Level 35: Anguishing Cry

[*] (A) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
[*] (43) Touch of Lady Grey - Chance for Negative Damage
[*] (45) Shield Breaker - Chance for Lethal Damage
[*] (45) Shield Breaker - Accuracy/Defense Debuff
[*] (45) Shield Breaker - Accuracy/Recharge
[*] (46) Shield Breaker - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
Level 38: Indomitable Will

[*] (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
Level 41: Mind Over Body

[*] (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
[*] (46) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
[*] (46) Unbreakable Guard - Endurance/RechargeTime
[*] (48) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
Level 44: Weave

[*] (A) Reactive Defenses - Defense
[*] (48) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance
[*] (48) Reactive Defenses - Endurance/RechargeTime
[*] (50) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime
[*] (50) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime
[*] (50) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage
Level 47: Long Range Teleport

[*] (A) Empty
Level 49: Painbringer

[*] (A) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration
Level 1: Brawl

[*] (A) Accuracy IO
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash [*] (A) Empty
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide [*] (A) Empty
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick [*] (A) Empty
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush [*] (A) Empty
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge [*] (A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint [*] (A) Unbounded Leap - +Stealth
Level 2: Rest [*] (A) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift [*] (A) Flight Speed IO
Level 2: Health [*] (A) Miracle - +Recovery
Level 2: Hurdle [*] (A) Jumping IO
Level 2: Stamina

[*] (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod
[*] (15) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
------------

Key Points:

Moderate positional defences (~25%)
Hardcapped S/L resistances
Dips into the Teleport pool to get Fold Space (combine with procced out Anguishing Cry for AoE damage/resistance debuff)
Hasten should be perma via Force Feedback Lift/Propel

Give it a whirl on beta, see how it treats you! Would be interested in seeing how it performs.

November 6, 2020

3 hours ago, macskull said:

Another couple things go into this discussion. Perception bias is probably the biggest one, because you don't notice those 95% of times you hit a target, but you definitely notice the 5% of times you don't. The next one is simple probability and accepting that just because something is extremely unlikely doesn't mean it won't happen. For example, there's an 0.25% chance I will miss two attacks with 95% hit rolls in a row (not counting the one in between where streakbreaker forced a hit) which means it is unlikely to happen but not impossible.

Hence the whole XCOM jokes about 99% chance to hit misses and so on, I imagine.

November 5, 2020

13 minutes ago, Darmian said:

I've unlocked incarnates as a Praetorian and you simply cannot go to the RWZ.

Whoops, misread Praetorian/non-Praetorian, my mistake.

November 5, 2020

1 hour ago, Darmian said:

You can't even do those if you're a Praetorian anyway.

...no? I've done it as a non-Praetorian, test it out on the beta shard after unlocking Incarnates, @CaptainLupis.

November 5, 2020

On 11/2/2020 at 9:48 AM, MTeague said:

My thoughts

For Overwhelming Overpower (additional control mag), I'd need to play around with it somewhat before I can give a full-throated endorsement. raw proposed numbers don't translate well in my head to the feel of how it would play in practice. But I'm cautiously optimistic that it can be made to work well.

For Overwhelming Overkill (chance to insta-defeat), it's simply not a thing that I feel is needed. Killing Bosses and below is not an issue for my Mind/Kin. Even for EB's or AV's, I can dish out enough damage.... if I can reliably establish CONTROL.

Now, that said, my Mind Controller is, as stated, MIND/KIN. And Confuse is my hands-down favorite form of control in the game. Between Confuse and Mass Confuse, I do not lack for options to have clouds of foes defeat quickly each other at my behest. And with Terrify and Cross Punch, I don't notice any XP loss at all.

It's really the Purple Triangles of Doom that are only brick wall my controller runs face-first into.

Single hard targets that can't be reliably controlled but which can take me down in a disturbingly short time.

When I'm faced with the Envoy of Shadow, I generally make a sad face and die, until I remember to go get myself a Shivan, speed boost the shivan, spam Transfusion and try to keep the Shivan standing before the Envoy can melt it. If the Shivan dies, I follow within seconds. If not, I win. I find that type of victory terribly unsatisfying, because at that point it's not MY powers making virtually any difference. If I spam cast controls between Tranfusions I can sometimes control the Envoy for approximately 10 seconds before purple triangles take over again and break him free.

I get that all developers have been averse to City of Statues if Controls were made tooooo strong. But establishing Control is the only way a Mind Controller can solo anything.

So far my solution to this, is grin and bear the use of Shivans for certain edge cases when I'm on a flashback marathon, or teaming.

If I have greater ability to lock down through Purple Triangles, even if that ability is ONLY active when truly SOLO, then I'd feel more like I can walk into any missoin, anywhere, and emerge victrorious.

That said, "teaming" is not really a dirty word, and it's not the end of the world if the devs decide there is no good solution and some things just require certain combos to team vs solo.

That makes sense - thanks for putting your thoughts forth! I've definitely had similar experiences against Elite Bosses with the Purple Triangles at the lower levels and so on with this Plant Control/Cold Domination character of mine...when the -Recharge debuffs from your secondary are doing more to improve your survivability than your actual controls, it definitely feels a little backwards.

Sadly, I'm not exactly versed in power development, otherwise it'd be something I'd love to test out to see if it'd work well in practice, especially since it feels like there's a lot of variables to juggle all at once. Having a chance to lock down AVs/GMs kind of requires considering how that chance'll scale with the amount of Controllers on the team, something that @FoulVileTerror did bring up - being significant enough on a smaller team/solo vs. adding more Controllers to the group.

I'm still in the process of figuring out how best to do this...but unfortunately, only testing it out'll really work, I suppose, even if I do napkin-math as best as I can, such as with the likelihood of an Overwhelming Overpower going off given a specific amount of status effect inducing powers. And then the variables increase from there if I end up introducing other mechanics such as the whole +Chance to Overpower thing, along with the different ways in which that might be implemented as a means of aiding with the reliability of this, without straying from the whole binary nature of status effects. It's a lot to factor in!

At the moment, I'm thinking of some kind of hybrid mechanism that factors in:

The different status effects currently applied on an enemy
The magnitude of each of these separate status effects

And using that to increase the chance of an Overpower occurring. Sadly, math really isn't my strong point here.

I've heard some Earth Controllers do similarly to what you're describing with your use of a Shivan with their Animate Stone pet, due to how it draws aggro, and the fact that it's extremely durable. And of course, Illusion Control's Phantom Army takes that up to eleven, where maintaining aggro basically is their form of control. It does make one ask why some control powersets are better at handling stronger opponents, purely because of the kind of control that they favour. Which I suppose is what Overwhelming Overpower is attempting to rectify in the first place.

And yeah, Overpowering Overkill might definitely be a little extra, hahah. I'm personally okay with the amount of damage my Controllers deal outside of some powerset picks...but that might be better resolved with improving them rather than outright changing their inherent. Ice Control could do with something more for instance - speaking of which, I probably need to do a writeup on that too. It was more for the people in this thread such as @BitCook and @Uun who've mentioned that status effects are less useful in teams where enemies are defeated faster; additional survivability is less important there. Plus, there are definitely some combinations that'll be much slower than others solo.

November 4, 2020

Just now, Galaxy Brain said:

I would honestly say yes. Using it in the middle of a packed mob looked right to me over the 40+ missions i bombarded enemies with it.

I quite liked it as a cone myself, and it looked very stylish in the process.

November 4, 2020

1 minute ago, Luminara said:

The engine doesn't allow that. In fact, I don't think I'd be off the mark in saying that it was specifically designed to prevent it. Obstacles would have to be actually removed in some way, because even if they were rendered without textures, thereby making them invisible, the geometry would still be present.

Phase shifting could, theoretically, be adapted to work on geometry, but it would require completely new code and significant revision of a major part of the engine to integrate it.

Yup, yup, had a feeling that was the case, was spitballing ideas. I figured that one big thing that teleporters can do in fiction and so on would be that obstacle traversal stuff, but that makes sense.

November 4, 2020

Hmm...perhaps Teleport could allow for traversing through obstacles/structures? I'm not sure how that'd be implemented though - visualising it as making things temporarily transparent, allowing you to target something on the other side, or something like that.

November 3, 2020

As mentioned here, Eagles Claw had an animation change when it became a cone attack, kicking up a cloud of dust in the process. Now that it's back to a single target attack, that dust cloud remains, but should also be reverted back to what it originally looked like (compare the default customisation to the colour tinted version).

November 2, 2020

1 minute ago, Jimmy said:

/ah makes the market more accessible for everyone, which means it's easier for everyone to list their stuff, which means that the supply is higher and it's easier for everyone to buy what they want.

There's not really a good case to remove it, keeping the economy healthy and in check is very important to us - we don't want it to end up like the market from live.

Out of curiosity, might it ever be accessible inside supergroup bases? I've heard there's some technical difficulties that need overcoming first though.

November 1, 2020

Eagle's Claw still has the dust cloud animation attached to it - could that be reverted to the original animation now that it's no longer a cone?

November 1, 2020

6 hours ago, Darkneblade said:

Instant defeat sounds interesting but possible overpowered with plant/fire/ or any newer sets that all about damage (except illusion which has no control power). How about -Max HP? But it will work on AV's too.

Which equals to less time defeating them all around.

There's a few reasons that I went the way I did with Overpowering Overkill:

Damage focused Controllers don't really benefit from this addition - they can bring down enemies quickly enough for it not to matter
Low damaging, but lockdown heavy Controllers will be aided the most, as most of their damage comes from repeated use of their primary powers
- I.e. spamming Holds and Immobilises
It has potential synergies with +Chance to Overpower, depending on how it's implemented, thus enhancing the prior two points further
- E.g. higher chances to occur based on the amount of magnitude stacked on an enemy
It was purposefully focused on helping to take down lower ranking enemies, thus speeding up Controllers when alone/in low damage groups
- @Uun pointed out that status effects/buffs/debuffs don't really matter if enemies are defeated too quickly
- I didn't want to exacerbate this against tougher foes, hence why it doesn't really affect bosses and above

Kinda curious as to how this'd affect Mind Control as well, since it does have a lot of powers that benefit from Overpower, so pinging @MTeague for thoughts on this additional proposal. To quickly recap - I made an addition to the original suggestion, as can be seen below:

Quote

Overpowering Overkill

Two points that have been brought up a few times in this thread:

Controllers are a little bit slow at actually clearing out enemies in regular play

Overwhelming Overpower does little against weaker enemies (Lieutenants and below)

As such, this additional proposal aims to address these two points in the following manner:

An Overpower or above will instantly defeat Underling ranked enemies and below
20% chance for instant defeat on power use

An Overpower! or above will instantly defeat Minion ranked enemies and below
10% chance for instant defeat on power use

An Overpower!! or above will instantly defeat Lieutenant/Sniper ranked enemies and below
5% chance for instant defeat on power use

An Overpower!!! will instantly defeat Boss ranked enemies and below
1% chance for instant defeat on power use

This is flavoured as the Controller's higher magnitude powers fully overwhelming weaker enemies, and thus leading to their subsequent defeat. As such, the proposal might work well together with the previous suggestion of dynamically increasing the chance of an Overpower occurring.

Would definitely be interested in hearing what people think of it!

November 1, 2020

Also will ping @krj12 for their thoughts - hello there! I've seen you around the Controller sub-forum, and it looks like you've a fair amount of experience with the archetype. As such, I'd definitely be interested in hearing your opinion on these proposed additions to the Controller's inherent, which I'm calling Overwhelming Overpower.

Mainly, it's meant to provide the archetype with a way to use status effects against AVs/GMs (when by default they generally don't have an effect, Purple Triangles notwithstanding), but I've also attempted to recently address the speed at which Controllers clear out the battlefield in normal play as well. Thoughts/feedback/critique welcome! 🙂

November 1, 2020

37 minutes ago, Purrfekshawn said:

Why revert Eagle's Claw power changes? l have some toons with MA powerset those REILLY lack AoE's, so was REILLY look forward to this improvement. Ayway most melee powerses have at least 1 Cone AoE, and 1 Sphere PBAoE. So EC's improvement would bring that Set inline with others. It would still prefer Single Target damage more though. Why revert after all?!

On 10/25/2020 at 2:08 AM, TC said:

I typically agree with most of the team's balance changes and in the case of the newest patch, I'm happy for almost every change. Especially the Energy Melee changes, they take the spirit of the current set and add power that feels good to use (seemingly).

But... Eagle's Claw as a cone...? The power doesn't really match up like this thematically or aesthetically and changing the IO set type is going to wreak Havoc with MA builds. Eagle's Claw is the go-to power to slot Hecatomb for MA and Dragon's Tail is the go-to for Armageddon. It's not a huge deal, I just don't really get why the change is being made. I agree that MA could use a bit of a buff and I also agree that giving that buff to Eagle's Claw is a good move, as for a T9 power it does lack some oomf compared to others. But making it a cone? MA is not one of those melee sets that lacks good AoE, Dragon's Tail is a nice PBAoE power. Quick cast, good damage. I really just don't see why Eagle's Claw was made a cone. If I'm being completely honest it seems a bit uninspired, it's just making the set feel more like Katana or NB.

EDIT: Thank you for listening 🙂

On 10/25/2020 at 5:34 AM, DreadShinobi said:

Echoing what others have said about EC, the animation absolutely does not match up with being a cone.

Why was ToF animation time increased?

Accolade recharge adjustment literally nerfs every single one of my characters that have enough recharge to put Geas/Demonic on a 7-8 min cooldown. Much disappointment here.

On 10/25/2020 at 7:37 AM, DarionLeonidas said:

I see a real problem with this as it further weakens Scrappers, especially as compared to Stalkers.

With this change, my main, a Level 50 Scrapper, loses his Alpha Strike Single Target to a Cone; even if it does the same amount of damage, re-classifying it as a PBAoE means that, while my main is able to slot Hecatomb here and Armageddon in Dragon's Tail, any other Scrapper I get to 50 will only have Armageddon in one or the other.

That's my practical objection to another loss of potential to Scrappers; Stalkers have been improved to the point where Scrappers are already taking a backseat, and MA Stalkers will still be able to slot Hecatomb and Armageddon, making Stalkers (once again) that much better and Scrappers that much weaker.

And promising that my character who already has it won't be changed isn't the point; I'm not one of those "I got mine, screw everybody else" people, and I have more Scrappers in the pipeline.

At this point, my only option is to spend everything on Buying Hecatombs and power-level my nascent Scrappers to 50.

In conclusion: Eagle's Claw is not broken, Please do not "fix" it.

Please don't do this.

On 10/25/2020 at 3:42 PM, Saikochoro said:

My question about tooltip values aside. I transferred my MA/SR from the live server to the beta and did some minor testing. I appreciate the thought behind changing eagles claw to a cone and that is in line with many wanting more AoE for MA. I did get multiple targets in several times, but rarely more than 2.

Im in a minority in that I wanted to double down on the single target nature of MA rather than buff its AoE. I would honestly much rather have them buff the damage of eagles claw a fair amount than to turn it into the cone. The main problem with it is that it doesn’t do enough damage for its animation time to warrant use in the best attack chains. I want eagles claw to hit hard enough that you would be crazy not to take and use it in your normal rotations.

That said, I am happy to take this change too even if it is not the route I would prefer.

On 10/25/2020 at 7:01 PM, UpandAtom said:

I think that adding some extra AoE into MA might've could've been been a change to, say, Crane Kick? Since it's so totally samey to Cobra Strike aside for one stuns and the other KBs. Adding it onto EC seems a weird choice. Keeping the aoe potential loaded in the back?

I was looking forward to the change to Eagles Claw myself, but discussion about the change was definitely a bit split. Powerhouse also said this was one of the changes that wasn't really set in stone - I imagine they'll look into Martial Arts another time.

November 1, 2020

Out of curiosity, where does Martial Arts stand now, given that the change to Eagles Claw has been rolled back? Bit of a shame that, I did like the cone there.

November 1, 2020

Hello @Oneirohero! I'm sending you a ping because it looks like you're similarly interested in tweaking Controllers, from a previous post of yours. As such, I'd definitely be interested in hearing your thoughts on Overwhelming Overpower, which seeks to improve the Controller's ability to lock down AVs/GMs - how it stacks up to other inherents, whether or not it steps on the toes of Dominators, if it goes too far/is too little, and so on.

I'm also especially interested in hearing further thoughts about one of my newer secondary suggestions attached alongside the main proposal, Overpowering Overkill. It's designed to address another issue that's cropped up here and there with Controllers: that of the speed with which they clear things at.

Many thanks in advance if you decide to respond! 🙂

October 31, 2020

On 9/16/2020 at 2:42 AM, Blackfeather said:

Overpowering Overkill

Two points that have been brought up a few times in this thread:

Controllers are a little bit slow at actually clearing out enemies in regular play

Overwhelming Overpower does little against weaker enemies (Lieutenants and below)

As such, this additional proposal aims to address these two points in the following manner:

An Overpower or above will instantly defeat Underling ranked enemies and below
20% chance for instant defeat on power use

An Overpower! or above will instantly defeat Minion ranked enemies and below
10% chance for instant defeat on power use

An Overpower!! or above will instantly defeat Lieutenant/Sniper ranked enemies and below
5% chance for instant defeat on power use

This is flavoured as the Controller's higher magnitude powers fully overwhelming weaker enemies, and thus leading to their subsequent defeat. As such, the proposal might work well together with the previous suggestion of dynamically increasing the chance of an Overpower occurring.

Created a new additional proposal to Overwhelming Overpower. Thoughts/feedback welcome as always!

October 30, 2020

On 10/24/2020 at 11:43 PM, Jimmy said:

Martial Arts

Eagle's Claw
This power now hits in a small cone

Now takes PBAoE sets instead of Melee Damage sets
Any currently slotted enhancement will retain, but can not be re-slotted after a respec

These changes only apply to the melee set version of the power (Tanker, Brute, Stalker and Scrapper)

AE versions of these powers have been updated with missing powers and to match current power effects

Definitely like this change, gives a bit of extra AoE damage (quite a bit, actually) - and the dust cloud/shockwave it kicks up is really neat! Thank you for this, devs. 🙂

October 30, 2020

While this video is more about microtransaction-locked cosmetics in games, I do like it for how it touches on the significance of character customisation for players, especially for multiplayer games with a high amount of social interaction involved in them.

October 30, 2020

Going to ping @Naraka about this new addition to this proposal, since it's a bit of a deviation from just pure control:

Basically, it'd provide Controllers with the ability to instantly defeat enemies if they're sufficiently overpowered (i.e. +50 mag controls on minions/lieutenants) - a way to use their "crits" of sorts. Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on it!

October 30, 2020

3 hours ago, capricorpse said:

I do love Controllers as well! I think this is a good problem to weigh.

The stacking Overpowerability is compelling, though I don't understand the numbers part enough to have a sense of how it would shake out in-game.

An idea could be that instead, maybe landing their existing Overpower on an AV, it could break the purple triangle effect early? In this case, it wouldn't also affect them with the hold, but maybe stacking holds or having the up-mag from Overpower could shatter their defense against it in the first place, creating openings for control to be used.

This sort of statistical tweaking isn't quite my wheelhouse but I'd welcome any way to get controls onto tougher foes! And I think that it's not going to step on a Dom's toes unless it becomes a click-buff magnitude increase like Domination (which I think should be tweaked anyway)

Hey there, thanks for your response!

Basically, Overwhelming Overpower'll work mostly the same in normal play - it's really only against tougher targets that it'll begin to make itself known (or at least, that's the intent). Here's some comparative numbers about the likelihood of an Overwhelming Overpower going off during the Purple Triangles Up period, given some factors that I drafted up. Hope it helps to visualise it a bit more!

It gives the Controller the chance to flat out lock down an AV/GM with a single application of their power - I bank on the low-ish chance to stop it from being more potent than Domination, but it's definitely a hard balance to pull. I do like your idea of having a way of taking down those Purple Triangles early as well! I think @DougGraves mentioned the use of break bars and the like, which does sound pretty close to it. Though how to implement that sort of thing, I'm not sure of.

October 29, 2020

Oh! Almost forgot to ping @EmperorSteele about this new proposal too - I recall you wishing to add damage to Controllers, so I'd definitely be interested in hearing your thoughts on the addition to Overwhelming Overpower I made above. Got any ideas for alternative effects, etc.? Is it too powerful? Something else entirely?

October 29, 2020

26 minutes ago, honoroit said:

^ immediate dmg per cruel, as opposed to a % based dot doom, is better imo. Punchy. Always punchy!

For sure! Overwhelming Overpower ought to be impactful regardless of where it lands, per @Steampunkette's mention of it potentially being wasted against a minion or a lieutenant, who don't usually need it. So having some other effect on them makes sense I think...and defeat is the strongest mez. 🙂

Or any other secondary effect that might work nicely, but not sure of what they could be.

October 29, 2020

2 minutes ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

Another possible idea is that Mag over (let's saaaaay) twice the Threshold for application gets converted to either raw damage or some -Res Debuff.

ie: Hit a Lt. with Mag 50 Hold, and the Lt. takes 30% HP damage instead. (Numbers not backed by any kind of math, just random for the sake of expressing the idea.)

That definitely might be interesting too! I don't know much in the way of formulas for something like that, but I figured that, like a certain thread has said (*waves to @Troo*), defeat is the strongest mez there is...so a high enough magnitude of any status effect via Overwhelming Overpower could potentially become deadly for weaker enemies.

A Dominate rips through a feeble mind, a Char leaves an enemy completely choked out, a Mesmerize leaves a guy brain dead...etc.

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