Blackfeather's Mind Control Updates v1

[Blackfeather]

Done in the style of The Philotic Knight's and Trickshooter's powerset buff threads. I've been meaning to collate my thoughts on Mind Control for a while, and now with some added time on my hands, I can. I'll start with some general points before diving into the powers themselves.

 

Reasoning Behind Presented Modifications

 

Mind Control is a very utility driven powerset in a game where force can easily substitute for finesse. On smaller and lower level teams this is perfectly fine, and very potent - it's easy enough to spot a sleeping enemy so as to not attack it, or take some time to herd a group of enemies in the right direction for example. I personally enjoy the fact that Mind Control works this way.

 

However, this doesn't invalidate the fact that it has the potential to make the powerset feel less fun to play in other conditions. While many control powersets in general can feel this way in similar situations, Mind Control especially stands out.

 

As such, the changes below are made with these thoughts in mind. They will attempt to maintain the current feel of the set, and provide improvements that should hopefully be very acceptable.

 

Additionally, they are quite inspired by the improvements that Gravity Control received in Issue 22 - conservative in the 'feel' of the presented powers, while clearly improving on them. As such, I will refrain from:

 

• Changing the order of available powers
• Invalidating or making unappealing playstyles currently available to the powerset
• Altering powers to prefer a different enhancement slotting setup
• Making powers behave entirely differently

 

Both of them being in the game from the start, I would not be surprised if Mind Control might have been next to receive some updates. It's in that style that I present the changes below.

 

Mesmerize & Mass Hypnosis: Sleep on the Ground

 

Sleeps are fairly conditional by nature - they take a good amount of finesse to use well: taking an enemy out of the fight and refraining from attacking them is harder than it sounds, especially in a game with a lot of ways of accidentally causing damage. As such, they tend to be much more potent in smaller teams, reducing the likelihood of such accidental damage.

 

A discussion thread about making Sleeps feel impactful in situations outside of these scenarios generally seems to agree that secondary effects alongside the status effect tend to help a good amount in larger group content. One suggestion of which caught my eye, as it fitted very well with Mind Control's theme.

 

Sleeps are flavored in a lot of different ways - enemies convulsing in electric shocks, being trapped in fragile salt, and of course, actually falling asleep; the last of these is what Mesmerize and Mass Hypnosis fall under. Given that this is the case, I think it makes sense that enemies inflicted with a Sleep caused by either power would lay prone on the ground (i.e. knockdown).

 

This would mean that to actually act after waking, forceful or otherwise, an enemy would need to stand back up. I would assume that this would be implemented in a way that means enemies already resistant to knockdown would not succumb to this effect, the same as how Ice Control's slows are resisted for example.

 

By implementing this, Mesmerize and Mass Hypnosis remain useful, even in conditions other than what is suitable for Sleep-inflicting powers. While their main strengths will always be in strategically taking enemies out of the fight, they will definitely have a good amount of use elsewhere. And I'm not done with them yet either. Introducing...

 

Quote

Dizzied! A Mez-Mixing Mechanic

Enemies that are slept via Mass Hypnosis or Mesmerize will have a Mag 3 Disorient inflicted on them if they are hit with Levitate or Terrify. The duration of the Disorient is based on a fraction of the remaining time of the Sleep against the opponent - a smaller fraction for Mesmerize, and a larger one for Mass Hypnosis.

Tentative numbers (people better with them please critique!):

 

• Mesmerize = 1/4 duration
• Mass Hypnosis = 1/2 duration

 

The rationale behind this is similar to the Impact! mechanic, interacting with other powers in the set in interesting ways. While Gravity Control opted to go for a mechanic that increased its damage, I decided to provide Mind Control with something to 'harden' its controls at the cost of some duration, with the aim of improving its usage in busy teams.

 

As such, the Disorients would be relatively short in duration compared to proper powers inflicting the status effect - when possible, Sleeps are the better use, but they now have plenty of applications on a team as well. I tried to strike the balance between that and not supplanting the actual functionality of these powers, or the others in Mind Control's set.

I'm also suggesting this because I thought it fit the theme of the powerset. Just like how slamming a gravitationally enhanced enemy to the floor would obviously deal more damage, giving them a rude awakening, whether that be through flipping them in the air or scaring them with a nightmare would likewise make them, well, dizzied.

 

Levitate, Terrify, and Mass Confusion: Number Adjustments

 

All of these powers in Mind Control are perfectly fine. However, this is muddied somewhat due to other, similar powers which in a lot of ways replicate the same effect, but better. While I am not certain on the specific numbers involved, it does mean that some adjustments might be in order to boost them up to the level of equivalent ones.

 

~~~

 

Levitate is exactly like Gravity Control's Lift, except it takes a little longer to cast, and deals a bit less damage. I would not be surprised if Lift dealt the same amount of damage as Levitate before its Issue 22 patch as well. Considering that Lift is strictly better in every way, I think duplicating Lift's changes and transplanting them onto Levitate makes a lot of sense.

 

The other two powers are slightly less clear cut. As such, I'll endeavour to list some changes least likely to cause debate, and leave any further numerical changes for other posters.

 

~~~

 

The closest equivalent to Terrify is Darkness Control's Fearsome Stare - they are both cone-based powers that inflict the Fear status effect with the same recharge time and duration. They have their comparative pros and cons: Terrify costs much more endurance (more than double) and is less accurate, but it has a wider cone arc (90 vs 45 degrees). It also deals some damage, while Fearsome Stare does not. However, Fearsome Stare also provides -ToHit, and its range is higher (70 vs 60 ft).

 

While there are some benefits to what Terrify provides, I personally think they don't outweigh the cons to that choice - Fearsome Stare's -ToHit debuff is an excellent boon for survivability, and its range is plenty enough to affect enemies. As such, I think that bringing its accuracy up to Fearsome Stare's level, and reducing its endurance cost to some degree sounds reasonable. If others think that the power ought to have more, feel free to add on suggestions!

 

~~~

 

Mass Confusion is a very good power, allowing multiple enemies at once to turn and switch to the Mind Controller's side for a long amount of time. However, it can also feel overshadowed at times due to Plant Control's (perhaps slightly overtuned) Seeds of Confusion, along with Electric Control's Synaptic Overload. These are all powers which confuse multiple enemies at once, though with some pros and cons of their own. Here is a breakdown of the three:

 

	Mass Confusion	Seeds of Confusion	Synaptic Overload
Area Type	Targeted AoE [Ranged and Immediate]	Targeted Cone [Immediate but Close]	Targeted Chain [Ranged but Gradual]
Draws Aggro?	No	Yes	No
Duration	Higher [37.25s]	Higher [37.25s]	Lower [27.94s]
Level Access	Highest [Lv. 32]	Lowest [Lv. 8]	Middle [Lv. 26]
Endurance	Highest [26]	Middle [15.6]	Lowest [8.53]
Recharge	Long [240s]	Slow [60s]	Slow [60s]
Accuracy	Lower [60%]	Base [75%]	Base [75%]

 

While it's not without its advantages, the comparative drawbacks that Mass Confusion has are fairly impactful. There's no reason for it to have lower accuracy when the other powers are higher, especially since the powerset itself claims to be very accurate! It should at least be as accurate as the others.

 

Along with this, it has a recharge time four times higher than both powers. While I don't advocate having its recharge time adjusted to the same level as the others, having it recharge somewhat faster would be nice. The actual numbers I'll leave to other users to discuss!

 

Telekinesis: Omnidirectional Movement (Alternative Implementation Here)

 

Telekinesis is a very fun power to use, hampered by a few things. At its core, it's a power that is designed to Hold a group and push them away from the user in the process - reshaping the battlefield while rendering the enemy helpless. There are a few issues with this.

 

• It's difficult to control where the group should go
• The power can only affect 5 enemies at a time
• The high endurance cost (3.12/s!) is not worth these effects

 

The power comes at the same level as Gravity Control's Dimension Shift, and likewise could do with a good amount of changes. However, I did not wish to make it so that the current applications of the power (e.g. bundling a group of enemies up into a corner) are invalidated in the process. With this in mind, here is my proposal:

 

Targeting an enemy with Telekinesis will Hold and Immobilize them, along with other enemies surrounding them (potentially lower Immobilize magnitude). The original target should not be able to move of their own volition - instead, the Mind Controller has the ability to move them wherever they like, dragging the enemy, and other enemies Immobilized/Held with them.

 

The controls would be akin to a Mastermind's pet, except without commands to attack a target - everything else (e.g. GoTo, Stay, Follow) would remain. Essentially, Telekinesis becomes a toggle-summoned pet that surrounds an enemy with a field of holding. While not everything is helpless in that area, they would all be moveable (via Repel), allowing a Mind Controller to rearrange the battlefield in a way that only Gravity Control can really match.

 

To clarify:

 

• An enemy targeted by Telekinesis will be Immobilized, and will be moveable regardless of rank
  • They may be Held (mag 3) depending on their level of protection
• All other enemies are affected as usual by magnitude for Holds (mag 3), Immobilizes (mag 3), and Repels (magnitude pending, open to suggestions)
  • If they are Held/Immobilized, they will move along with the enemy targeted by Telekinesis

 

Finally, the target cap for Telekinesis would be increased. I'd say bringing it in line with the other AoE Holds would make sense - 16 in other words.

 

Here is my reasoning for these changes:

 

• Making Telekinesis a toggle-summoned pet means that it gains increased flexibility - enemies can still be shoved into a corner, but they can now also just stay in one spot, follow you around, or even be hovered around in circles
• Adding the Immobilize status effect also provides Controllers with a way of taking advantage of Containment against tougher enemies
• Affecting only 5 enemies is quite low, and ought to match the other AoE Holds for better potency
• These two changes are made with the aim of making the high endurance cost worthwhile (no changes there)

 

This is probably the power with the largest amount of modifications to it. I did my best to increase its potency while keeping the 'feel' of the original Telekinesis, similar to how Dimension Shift was altered in a way that made it more flexible, but its core remained the same. As such, it's also the power that I'm least certain about in terms of changes - did I go too far? Not far enough? Just a bit off the mark? I'll look forward to the responses.

 

Quote

Fun Additional Ideas

 

This goes out of the scope of these updates, since they're a little bit different, hence why they're here instead of up there. Thinking a little about it, I wondered if Telekinesis ought to have any special interactions with Levitate. They're both telekinetic in nature after all, and it'd be fun to make them work together. Here are two potential ideas that I came up with:

 

• An enemy knocked up by Levitate while caught in Telekinesis would end up being freed, making space for Telekinesis to Hold/Immobilize another target
  • This would only apply to a secondary Telekinesis target (i.e. not the original target of the toggle)
• If the original target of Telekinesis is knocked up by Levitate, this brings all other Held/Immobilized targets with them, turning Levitate into a pseudo-Mass Levitate!
  • Essentially it'd be the same as Levitate, except affecting multiple targets at once
  • Provides a more offensive use for Telekinesis, at the cost of it being detoggled more often
    • Enemy-targeted toggles are deactivated after a while when they're defeated
    • A defeated enemy can't be lifted into the air, so switching to another target would be required

 

A Fictional Patch Notes Summary

 

Issue 2X updated the way Mind Control powers work:

 

• Mesmerize and Mass Hypnosis can now cause enemies to lay prone on the floor when Slept, forcing them to stand up upon awakening.
• Levitate's damage and animation times are now identical to Lift's.
• Telekinesis is an enemy-targeted toggle Mastermind pet that holds and immobilises all enemies around it. Held/immobilised enemies move wherever the pet is directed to move. Target cap has been raised .
• Terrify's accuracy has been increased, and its endurance usage decreased.
• Mass Confusion's accuracy has been increased, and its recharge time decreased.
• Dizzied! mechanic introduced: enemies slept by Mesmerize or Mass Hypnosis will have a Mag 3 stun applied to them when hit by Levitate or Terrify. Duration is dependant on remaining sleep time.

 

And there was (hopefully) much rejoicing.

 

I did my best to keep within the spirit of the powerset, increasing its utility/fun while not dramatically modifying the general feel of them - even Telekinesis does the same thing as before, just more flexibly. A good amount of that involved some number passes, while other parts of the powerset were looked over for additional functionality and flexibility.

 

So with this all said, I turn to the rest of the forums. What do you think? Any changes that you'd do differently, or disagree with? Changes that you really like? I look forward to everyone's responses!

Edited April 3, 2020 by Blackfeather
Link to alternative Telekinesis implementation.

[Blackfeather]

Summary of Submitted Suggestions

• Courtesy of @Vanden: Due to Terrorize costing more endurance than Fearsome Stare, it would make sense to increase its damage, along with bringing up its accuracy
  • This is a variation on the numbers pass in the original post - instead of lowered endurance and higher accuracy, it'd be higher damage and higher accuracy
• @Redlynne 's post covers Mind Control in a different light. In summary:
  • Implementing Telekinesis differently, using Levitate to control its repel effect
  • Making Terrorize trigger Containment for Mind Controllers
  • They've also suggested some actual numbers adjustments to different powers, which is great!
• Inspired by @Psi's suggestion of limiting Telekinesis' effectiveness after the first 5 enemies, I created an alternative Telekinesis proposal that implements the tentative Levitate synergies from the original post
• From @SwitchFade's experience, Terrorize may cause enemies to initially attack the user. This shouldn't be the case - like other Fear powers, it should lock them down immediately

Edited June 23, 2020 by Blackfeather
Added suggestion.

[Vanden]

Ya'll need to stop comparing Mass Confusion to Seeds of Confusion. SoC is plainly too good, that should be obvious to anyone who understands the rationale behind the AoE control nerfs of yore. Specifically, it shouldn't be possible for one player using one power to permanently control a group of enemies so they can't attack, and SoC can do that with aplomb. That's not to say Mass Confusion couldn't do with a slight buff, but nothing specific to Mass Confusion, IMO. Rather, removing the acc penalty on AoE controls (Mass Confusion could instead have an acc bonus), and either a slight increase to duration or decrease of the recharge time.

 

Personally, I think Mind's problems are mostly on the Controller side; no pet and no AoE immobilize are not much of an issue for Dominators, but it hurts Controllers' damage output. I think the best solution to that is to make Terrorize status a valid status for Containment, and to increase the damage of Levitate, Mesmerize, and Dominate so that they do the damage of normal ranged attacks with their given recharge times. It would also be cool if using Levitate on a Telekinesis'd target made it AoE, toggling off Telekinesis in the process.

 

As for your other suggestions, I like making Mesmerize and Mass Hypnosis knock down enemies, so they have to stand up after the sleep breaks, though that sounds like it might be really complicated to implement. Right now knockback breaks sleep, so they might have to implement an entirely new mechanic for it, not to mention it might call for animation work. The Dizzied mechanic also sounds like it could be cool.

[Redlynne]

19 minutes ago, Vanden said:

It would also be cool if using Levitate on a Telekinesis'd target made it AoE, toggling off Telekinesis in the process.

Stealing the ... seeds of confusion(?) ... that have germinated from this idea into an overhaul urban renewal of Telekinesis that will be AWESOME ...

[Blackfeather]

Just now, Redlynne said:

Stealing the ... seeds of confusion(?) ... that have germinated from this idea into an overhaul urban renewal of Telekinesis that will be AWESOME ...

Actually, that was a suggestion I made in the original post!

5 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

Fun Additional Ideas

 

This goes out of the scope of these updates, since they're a little bit different, hence why they're here instead of up there. Thinking a little about it, I wondered if Telekinesis ought to have any special interactions with Levitate. They're both telekinetic in nature after all, and it'd be fun to make them work together. Here are two potential ideas that I came up with:

 

• An enemy knocked up by Levitate while caught in Telekinesis would end up being freed, making space for Telekinesis to Hold/Immobilize another target
• If the original target of Telekinesis is knocked up by Levitate, this brings all other Held/Immobilized targets with them, turning Levitate into a pseudo-Mass Levitate!
  • Essentially it'd be the same as Levitate, except affecting multiple targets at once

[Redlynne]

I'm thinking of something ... different ... in execution.

Will try to post later today.

[Blackfeather]

52 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Ya'll need to stop comparing Mass Confusion to Seeds of Confusion. SoC is plainly too good, that should be obvious to anyone who understands the rationale behind the AoE control nerfs of yore. Specifically, it shouldn't be possible for one player using one power to permanently control a group of enemies so they can't attack, and SoC can do that with aplomb. That's not to say Mass Confusion couldn't do with a slight buff, but nothing specific to Mass Confusion, IMO. Rather, removing the acc penalty on AoE controls (Mass Confusion could instead have an acc bonus), and either a slight increase to duration or decrease of the recharge time.

Oh of course - hence my talk of Seeds being overtuned; Mass Confusion is a great power that just happens to be somewhat overshadowed by two of its closest comparisons. Mass Confusion does have its advantages, such as being the best out of the three in terms of expediency and safety. But I think making its accuracy higher is fair, and perhaps a decreased recharge time, though the actual numbers I left open to discussion, since I'm not the best with them.

52 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Personally, I think Mind's problems are mostly on the Controller side; no pet and no AoE immobilize are not much of an issue for Dominators, but it hurts Controllers' damage output. I think the best solution to that is to make Terrorize status a valid status for Containment, and to increase the damage of Levitate, Mesmerize, and Dominate so that they do the damage of normal ranged attacks with their given recharge times. It would also be cool if using Levitate on a Telekinesis'd target made it AoE, toggling off Telekinesis in the process.

Yup! It's why I made Telekinesis pull double duty as both an Immobilize and a Hold. I didn't want to make other forms of status effects trigger containment, just because I saw that as changing the game system itself, and that the introduction of the Dizzied! mechanic would also provide Mind Controllers with more ways of doubling their damage, if they were so inclined to go that route too.

 

And yeah, that's why I brought Levitate up to Lift's damage and animation speed - they're basically identical powers, and probably were identical before Gravity Control's power update. And you know, increasing Terrorize's damage is an interesting idea! After all, it costs more endurance than Fearsome Stare, so having a larger amount of damage that takes that into account makes sense.

 

I don't think it'd be a problem if one could use Levitate on the target of Telekinesis multiple times myself - Telekinesis uses up a boatload of endurance; so if many attacks are used, it'd be put to an end quite quickly. It's also very thematic; after all that hard work slamming enemies into the ground, it'd be bound to be draining!

52 minutes ago, Vanden said:

As for your other suggestions, I like making Mesmerize and Mass Hypnosis knock down enemies, so they have to stand up after the sleep breaks, though that sounds like it might be really complicated to implement. Right now knockback breaks sleep, so they might have to implement an entirely new mechanic for it, not to mention it might call for animation work. The Dizzied mechanic also sounds like it could be cool.

It's quite possible that that's the case. On the other hand, since the code is a black box, I think it's fine to go a little wild with the implementation - hence the change to Telekinesis for example. While feasibility is of course a bit of a concern, I didn't want that to get in the way of ideas that I thought would be nice, you know? If it ends up inspiring the devs and has them think "hey, that's really cool", then my job's done. 😄

Edited March 31, 2020 by Blackfeather

[Greycat]

I'm seeming to recall that Seeds also causes aggro (aside from being close and being a cone,) where I can confuse / mass confuse all day without getting any hate in return.

 

I wouldn't argue (gamewide, not just mind related) in making fears a containment trigger.

[Blackfeather]

40 minutes ago, Greycat said:

I'm seeming to recall that Seeds also causes aggro (aside from being close and being a cone,) where I can confuse / mass confuse all day without getting any hate in return.

 

I wouldn't argue (gamewide, not just mind related) in making fears a containment trigger.

Yup! Seeds of Confusion draws aggro:

8 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

	Mass Confusion	Seeds of Confusion	Synaptic Overload
Area Type	Targeted AoE [Ranged and Immediate]	Targeted Cone [Immediate but Close]	Targeted Chain [Ranged but Gradual]
Draws Aggro?	No	Yes	No
Duration	Higher [37.25s]	Higher [37.25s]	Lower [27.94s]
Level Access	Highest [Lv. 32]	Lowest [Lv. 8]	Middle [Lv. 26]
Endurance	Highest [26]	Middle [15.6]	Lowest [8.53]
Recharge	Long [240s]	Slow [60s]	Slow [60s]
Accuracy	Lower [60%]	Base [75%]	Base [75%]

[Greycat]

I swear I looked. 🙂

 

[Blackfeather]

2 minutes ago, Greycat said:

I swear I looked. 🙂

I get the feeling that a lot of my replies here are going to be self quotes. 😆

[Redlynne]

There.

I posted.

 

I blame you entirely, @Blackfeather !  😠

[Blackfeather]

6 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

There.

I posted.

 

I blame you entirely, @Blackfeather !  😠

It's a pleasure! I do like a good amount of those suggestions - my ones didn't really look at the code behind all these things, nor numbers since that's not really my strong point. I personally hope for the right technology to come around for my Telekinesis suggestion to be implemented myself, but I can see Levitate working as a means of controlling Repel somewhat as something rather nice too.

 

Making Terrorize trigger Containment is an interesting thought; I reasoned that with my idea of Telekinesis also providing Immobilise, along with the shorter lived stuns when a target is slept by Mass Hypnosis/Mesmerize and awakened by Levitate/Terrorize, they'd work as a way to do so.

 

And of course the whole pie in the sky thing of having Levitate act on multiple Telekinesis'd enemies when used on the right target would contribute to damage as well. They're both definitely different ways of achieving the same goal, and I can see pros and cons to both.

 

Course, I personally am biased to my stuff, but that's just natural. 😉

[Redlynne]

12 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

@Redlynne 's post covers Mind Control in a different light. In summary:

• Implementing Telekinesis differently, using Levitate to control its repel effect
• Making Terrorize trigger Containment for Mind Controllers
• They've also suggested some actual numbers adjustments to different powers, which is great!

We make every pretense of competency around here ...  😎

[Blackfeather]

Just now, Redlynne said:

We make every pretense of competency around here ...  😎

I don't really know what goes on behind the scenes of the game, so it's great to have some proper suggestions on numbers that'd make sense, hahah. 😄

[Redlynne]

[Razor Cure]

8 hours ago, Vanden said:

SoC is plainly too good

That isn't really a justification for MassC to pretty bad. Are we also gonna say SoC needs a nerf?

13 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

Enemies that are slept via Mass Hypnosis or Mesmerize will have a Mag 3 Disorient inflicted on them if they are hit with Levitate or Terrify.

Love this idea. Would be perfect for setting a mob up with the sleep, then using Terrify for some damage and debuffing, and leaving them still stunned for a bit.

[Blackfeather]

Just now, Razor Cure said:

That isn't really a justification for MassC to pretty bad. Are we also gonna say SoC needs a nerf?

To be fair, Mass Confusion is a very nice power, but it's fairly overshadowed in a few ways - at the very least, its accuracy could be lifted up to baseline (especially since Mind Control claims to have accuracy as one of its features), along with a lower recharge time; it has its own advantages, so I think that bringing it down to 60 seconds is a bit much, but a partial reduction would be nice. Redlynne suggested a number of 180s, and I'm inclined to agree.

4 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

Love this idea. Would be perfect for setting a mob up with the sleep, then using Terrify for some damage and debuffing, and leaving them still stunned for a bit.

Thanks! That was one potential use cases that I thought of - along with Telekinesis, it'd provide a way of setting up Containment for Mind Controllers by providing Disorients and Immobilises respectively. They're not going to compete with a Flashfire or a Heart of Darkness, but it lets Mesmerize and Mass Hypnosis work nicely in fast paced groups, along with Mind Controllers who prefer speed over safety.

 

Though as a heads up, Terrify doesn't have -ToHit; only Fearsome Stare does. The main difference between them is that Terrify does damage and has a wider (90 degrees vs. 45), if shorter cone (60 vs. 70, I believe).

[Vanden]

1 hour ago, Razor Cure said:

Are we also gonna say SoC needs a nerf?

[Blackfeather]

Snrk. But yes, Seeds of Confusion is quite overtuned. While it's not a bar that Mass Confusion ought to surpass/reach, it does throw the limitations of Mind Control's T9 in stark contrast, even though it has some downsides of its own (drawing aggro and as such encouraging aggressive play to the detriment of other playstyles being the main one). Synaptic Overload also does this*, albeit to a lesser degree.

 

* Referring to throwing Mass Confusion's limitations into stark contrast, not encouraging aggressive play.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Blackfeather
Added note.

[Psi]

Something to consider in light of what we've been told on discord about some new Knock and Repel tech:

Would it be possible to have Telekinesis not repel away from the caster, but instead use the new pseudopet mechanic in conjunction with a reverse repel to place a wide area AoE on the ground (or the feet of a selected target) that proceeds to pull all enemies toward it?

Of course, this leaves out the question of if the massive endurance cost is worth it - I would say perhaps *more* worth it with this new mechanic, but still not nearly worth over 3 endurance per second.
Additionally, do you have a limit on how long this can be continuously toggled on?

And is the target cap of 5 consistent with a change like this? Perhaps the repel effect can affect up to 16 targets, but the hold effect is still capped at 5? Or reduced by 1 mag to compensate for an increased target cap?

Lots to think about here. And I'm glad to see all of the discussion about Mind Control, regardless! It continues to be my first love, but one that I can't generally suggest playing right now.

[Blackfeather]

Just now, Psi said:

Something to consider in light of what we've been told on discord about some new Knock and Repel tech:

Would it be possible to have Telekinesis not repel away from the caster, but instead use the new pseudopet mechanic in conjunction with a reverse repel to place a wide area AoE on the ground (or the feet of a selected target) that proceeds to pull all enemies toward it?

Of course, this leaves out the question of if the massive endurance cost is worth it - I would say perhaps *more* worth it with this new mechanic, but still not nearly worth over 3 endurance per second.
Additionally, do you have a limit on how long this can be continuously toggled on?

And is the target cap of 5 consistent with a change like this? Perhaps the repel effect can affect up to 16 targets, but the hold effect is still capped at 5? Or reduced by 1 mag to compensate for an increased target cap?

Lots to think about here. And I'm glad to see all of the discussion about Mind Control, regardless! It continues to be my first love, but one that I can't generally suggest playing right now.

Admittedly I didn't really think about the technical details involved with implementing this idea! But it does sound like the implementation that I'm proposing is something along the lines of what you're suggesting - a toggle-summoned pet that scoops up enemies, which you can then control where to go akin to a Mastermind pet. With its small radius, I envision it gathering up any enemies in its vicinity closely together, especially if it's directed into a corner. When I refer to Repel, I sort of meant just a mechanic that moves enemies around in an arbitrary direction, hahah.

 

The main limitation in my implementation comes from the Endurance cost essentially; theoretically, you could keep an enemy in Telekinesis indefinitely if that were overcome, so long as they were not defeated, detoggling Telekinesis in the process when they despawn (I think that's how it works currently).

 

As for the target cap...that's an interesting thought. At the very least, affecting them all with an immobilise makes sense, I think, while also allowing them to be moved about. I can see the effect 'fading out' at the edges after a certain limit, the magnitude of the Hold being stronger for the first few targets, and weaker on the others. Very interesting for sure!

[Psi]

Absolutely. To clarify, I should have said that this reverse repel would allow everything to be constantly dragged in toward the target, which is something we previously had to assume was not possible. But given what we were told about the backend changes they pushed with this recent patch, it's a very exciting time to consider new possibilities.

 

And as far as control sets go, this could give Mind Control a new niche to fill (more effectively grouping enemies), as all of its previous ones have been largely co-opted by other control sets, but wouldn't allow it to shine as the *only* set capable of this, as Wormhole serves a somewhat similar purpose.

[Blackfeather]

Yup! I considered Telekinesis to be a potent power that has the potential to manipulate the battlefield, moving enemies around while also gathering them together. By being able to control where it moves around instead of just sending it off in a single direction, it'd essentially be able to 'group' mobs up in a ball of Holding/Immobilisation.

 

The (tentative) addition of having Levitate affect all targets affected by Telekinesis if it knocks up the original target would also be nice as a way of providing some further soft control for enemies not fully Held (and merely moved/Immobilised) by the power, if the target cap were increased, but its effects were weaker past those 5.

[Blackfeather]

Thinking over your suggestions, what do you think of this implementation of Telekinesis, @Psi?

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Telekinesis Properties

• Remains an enemy targeted toggle, but is now controllable rather than a unidirectional Repel
  • Stay, GoTo, Follow commands, similar to a Mastermind pet
  • Summons a 'pet' that's stuck on a specific target?
• When the target is defeated and fades away, Telekinesis will be detoggled

Telekinesis Magnitude Breakdown

• If an enemy is held or immobilized, it can be moved Telekinesis
  • Else merely attempts to move targets with a specific magnitude (Repel 1?)
• Initial target:
  • Mag 3 Hold/Mag X Immobilize
  • Should be able to Immobilize even AVs/EBs
• Next 5 targets:
  • Mag 3 Hold/Mag 3 Immobilize
• Next 10 targets:
  • Mag 2 Hold/Mag 3 Immobilize

Levitate/Telekinesis Synergies (Copied from Original Post)

• Primary target knocked up by Levitate:
  • Causes Levitate to be inflicted against all other targets affected by Telekinesis - AoE damage and soft control
    • Won't work if the target is resistant to Levitate's KB magnitude (i.e. stronger enemies)
  • Takes advantage of Containment for Controllers, soft control for targets that aren't Held
• Secondary target knocked up by Levitate:
  • Frees an enemy of Telekinesis
    • Still does Containment damage for Controllers?
  • Acts as a way to discard unwanted enemies from Telekinesis
  • Can provide a way to rearrange the Mag 3 Holds amongst enemies that need it

These changes would be made with the intent of making Telekinesis primarily a positioning tool with some controls on the side, rearranging enemies on the battlefield. Rather than flat out increasing the target cap of how many enemies it can Hold to 16, it enhances it, but does so in a somewhat more focused manner. At least, that's the hope.