Blackfeather
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Posts posted by Blackfeather
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23 minutes ago, MoisesG said:
Thank you @Blackfeather for the response, and for taking the time to submit your suggestion.
I hope the devs take notice and implement your suggested changes because honestly they would make Ice Control so much more fun to play.
Here's hoping! While it isn't Mind Control, Ice is also an old Control powerset - it came alongside it to my knowledge - and with it, some quirks. It'd be great if they manage to take a look at the Control powers in general one day, and maybe even their general role at the higher levels (something that I think @Sovera has mentioned in the past).
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11 hours ago, MoisesG said:
i would love these changes to Ice Control, but how likely are the devs to implement those changes?
Hey there! Glad to hear these changes piqued your interest. Basically, the way I see it is it's more likely than if one just says "oh, a buff to X" would be nice or "wouldn't it be neat if we had X" in passing conversation or something like that.
The influence that any one suggestion thread in general will be small: given that this is volunteer work, I figure that development works on a "wouldn't it be nice" basis, implementing things that any one dev decides they think would be interesting to do, and so on from there.
I view the role of suggestion threads as primarily inspirational, as a means of potentially prompting that "wouldn't it be nice" - fleshing out the details of a proposal helps demonstrate how such an idea might look in practice, which is where discussions of balance and numbers come in.
So on the off chance that the devs do happen to read this thread, the aim for any of the suggestions that I make is to be first and foremost inspiring to them. Well. That and making suggestion threads is fun, especially when you put a lot of style and pizzazz to them. In the same vein, I don't think @Tyrannical (oh, take a look at what I did to Flash Freeze's sleep if you haven't, might be of interest to you!) expects all of their (awesome!) suggestions to be implemented - but it's definitely enjoyable to try rolling up something cool sounding.
Hope this all makes sense!
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Well! I think I know of one practical application of Combat Teleport now.
Combat Teleport = increased ToHit = more accurate Teleport Target/Fold Space. 🙂
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7 hours ago, Bopper said:
If the damage is small and secondary, it shouldn't cost you any extra endurance.
Oh, that's neat to hear, thank you for responding! Out of curiosity, would the same apply to Shiver, if minor damage were to be added to it? It's something that I was thinking about while proposing it.
5 hours ago, Vanden said:If the breaking icicles did damage, that would let the power double-dip on damage procs. Chance for damage on the initial cast, and again for every breaking icicle. Only the targeted AoE damage set procs, I think. Something to consider.
Hmmm...that's definitely something to think about. On the other hand, @Sir Myshkin's mentioned in their Controller proc monster article that when it comes to proc potential, Ice Control does not have many opportunities to make use of them in the first place:
QuoteLow Capacity
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Ice
- Only five proc-pacting attacks in this set, the only thing that can be said is that the few that can be maximized, should, and it'll help scale up the sets performance. What's interesting is that this sets lack of proc-dealing capacity is turning it into the least-damaging set because it lacks opportunities. It may thematically look cool, but Ice needs a generalist face lift for one or two abilities because a proc-world makes this set suffer.
So maybe that change wouldn't be so bad - but then adding some minor damage + chance to Hold in Shiver (can slot Targeted AoE & Hold enhancements), and allowing Ice Slick to slot Knockback/Slow enhancements alone might tip that balance too. Definitely something to discuss further!
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46 minutes ago, Darkneblade said:
Good changes there especially with Flash Freeze. Though I'll add small lethal DoT when enemy destroyed ice formations. Mimicking ice shards should be able to damage enemy. This will help with set's abysmally low damage I think.
That could definitely work well! And adding some damage upon breaking free does make thematic sense. I'm not sure if that'd result in an increased amount of endurance expenditure, but given that it's kind of like damage over time, if it's spread out like that, perhaps an adjustment to endurance won't be necessary, not sure though, haven't really looked at those damage formulas and the like. Maybe I can summon @Bopper to weigh in one way or another?
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There's a lot of suggestions over here! And you might want to take a look at what I did for Ice Control's Flash Freeze:
So there's a lot of different ways to approach it - I think any effect should vary depending on the kind of Sleep being inflicted on an enemy, since it can represent a lot of things.
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Juuuuuuust putting this out there. 😉
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11 minutes ago, Greycat said:
Any damage would break a sleep, unless it's coded in to part of the sleep itself (like mesmerize.) So if you added damage to Flash Freeze, it likely would not, but if you hit them with a damaging Shiver (or frost breath from the Ice epic,) it would break.
(That said, if you're - say - hopping into the middle of a group of COT where a ruin mage just put up a dispersion bubble, broken right away or not, the sleep would shut that down, so it would still be helpful in keeping the mob defense down.)
Indeed - and of course using Shiver first before Flash Freeze would negate that without too much of an issue, especially since the changes here were designed to make both decent early-level openers (if not as good as other Control powersets, due to the whole -Recharge/-Movement schtick of Ice).
One thing that does sound potentially annoying is Flash Freeze's interaction with damaging Incarnate Interfaces, but that's probably a bit more of an underlying issue more than anything else.
Plus, the changes made to Flash Freeze here do mean that they'll still hinder enemies to some degree, even if they wake up soon afterwards.
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4 hours ago, 5099y_74c05 said:
I was mistaken and you are correct. Gravity was not affected by the changes since it never prevented KB. Thank you for clarifying.
In context of @Meknomancer question it would mean the Ragnarok PROC would cause the mobs to flop whenever it is triggered.
Yup! That was indeed the intent - plenty of ways to keep enemies on the floor, combined with being able to vorp them from place to place with Wormhole/Fold Space.
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6 hours ago, Veelectric Boogaloo said:
Seems like some good changes. I liked my ice/ice dom but not until I stopped using the aoe immob and just let the two auras do their work. I have to admit it didn't even occur to me to take shiver.
Glad to hear you like the sound of them! And yeah, Ice Control generally starts the fight either by wading in with Arctic Air, or attempting to trip up enemies with Ice Slick - I imagine Flash Freeze might be used similarly, but I tend to skip AoE Sleeps in most cases (hence the changes to that power).
Shiver's definitely nice, but unless one's facing enemies with high amounts of Slow resistances, it's generally not that necessary (maximum recharge debuff = -75% = x4 slower). As such, I thought it'd make for a semi-reliable opener for this set by taking inspiration from Neurotoxic Breath, of which it already shares a lot of similarities with, granting a chance to Hold.
The semi-reliable part comes in due to Ice Control having its own advantages with all of its -Recharge/-Movement: it's great for mitigating attacks over time, but not initially.
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Would also be curious as to @Tater Todd's thoughts on these proposed changes - hey there! I've seen you talk about Ice Control being somewhat lacklustre, so I'd definitely be interested in seeing whether or not you'd think these alterations to the set would give it a more level playing field in terms of performance, in comparison to the other Control powersets. Looking forward to your response, if you decide to drop by with one! 🙂
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10 minutes ago, Monos King said:
Slick, even?
As ice! 😛
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10 minutes ago, Monos King said:
@Blackfeather This seems cool. I'm curious though. Does adding damage to shiver interfere with use of Flash Freeze's sleep effect, or do you guys not use it in a way where that would matter?
...also, whether or not that pun was intended, that was amazingly smooth. 🤣
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4 minutes ago, Monos King said:
@Blackfeather This seems cool. I'm curious though. Does adding damage to shiver interfere with use of Flash Freeze's sleep effect, or do you guys not use it in a way where that would matter?
Definitely a good question! Basically, I figure that Flash Freeze is interchangeable with Shiver as a potential opener - either can be used to start a fight on the right foot (i.e. reducing the amount of incoming attacks). After that, Arctic Air takes over by confusing the mob. Plus, if a character wants to use both powers at once, they can just lead with Shiver first, and then follow up with Flash Freeze.
And of course, there's always the "regular" way of using an AoE Sleep: temporarily taking enemies out of a fight when there are too many to handle, which means that other powers won't be used on them for some time.
Plus, as @krj12 mentioned, Ice Control's a fairly low damage set, so adding a minor source in Shiver was something that I thought could help out a little in that regard. Though I do wonder if that's potentially overdone with the amount of proc potential that Hold IOs have...
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6 hours ago, Coyote said:
Shiver... I like the idea of having it break the Alpha strike. Due to its low recharge, the Hold component also needs to be low in duration. And I don't like the Mag 3 on it... I would prefer how I've seen other powers, with 50% chance for Mag 2, making it mostly an anti-Minion power, but an additional chance for a Mag 1... maybe another 50% chance. This gives it 50% chance against Minions, and 25% against LTs. Otherwise, the concept isn't bad. It could also be run as a Sleep effect, similar in concept to the target freezing in place like Flash Freeze. Either would work, I'd prefer the Hold so it's different from Flash Freeze. Be aware that allowing Hold would give it option for 3-4 damage procs. Maybe this isn't a bad thing, but be aware of it.
Agreed on the duration - Neurotoxic Breath has a ~6 second Hold, so perhaps that could be the ballpark number for it? Another thing to keep in mind might be the Controller's Overpower inherent: 20% chance of a +1 to status effects.
So a 50% chance of a Mag 2 Hold might work out alright - I'm aiming for roughly half of any one enemy group to be temporarily locked down with this power, it sounds like that'd be within that range. Or even upping the chance of that Mag 2 Hold so that it's more likely to affect minions, but less so other things? Not sure on the whole math behind it all - and of course at level 18, Flash Freeze is always an option anyhow, I suppose.
Main aim for this is to give some time for Ice Control's other powers to kick in, with Shiver being an opening transition power of sorts - usually that'll be Arctic Air.
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1 minute ago, Vanden said:
I imagine the pets would also not last very long even if an enemy doesn't kill them, probably despawning on their own before the max unenhanced duration of the sleep. It'd just be a fallback control for when the sleep gets broken early.
Yup - it's a flash freeze, the ice is going to melt away pretty quickly. Also doubles as a way of controlling tougher enemies with higher protection levels, if only for a few seconds.
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34 minutes ago, Vanden said:
I would picture something like this: Flash Freeze summons a pet under every target hit. The pets have an aura that immobilizes and taunts enemy targets, with a tiny radius and a target limit of 1, so each pet should only immobilize and taunt the enemy mob it got summoned under. Basically, the enemies have to smash the ice that’s restraining them to move freely again, so it forces them to waste a power activation or two (after they’re free from the sleep); I imagine they’d have something like 1/10th the health of a normal pet.
Yup! Honestly, I wasn't quite sure how the proposed concept could be implemented in-game, hence it being a little vague - I really like the way you came up with it! Will adjust the original post accordingly to match.
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Would also be interested in @Coyote's thoughts on these changes - hey there! I've seen you around the forums talk about this powerset, and its current drawbacks compared to the other Control sets. This proposal's meant to rectify this somewhat: would love to hear your stance on them!
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2 hours ago, Solarverse said:
Any AoE sleep needs to be redone. Sleep in today's game is now almost useless unless it reapplies itself much like the Elec version of the AoE Sleep. Otherwise it is just downright useless. I like the OP's idea because it gives the sleep power more function than just the sleep and makes it worth picking up. As of right now I simply do not have the power and have no intentions of getting it.
Initially, I wanted to have some kind of temporary health attached to Flash Freeze, so that small amounts of damage wouldn't cause it to break, but I went this route to try and make use of pre-existing mechanics - so it's kind of the inverse idea here: enemies "break out" of this freeze bit by bit (not sure how durable they ought to be at the moment).
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2 hours ago, Vanden said:
Enabling pet IOs in this power is gonna be pointless unless the pets themselves do damage, which you didn't say they would, just that they'd taunt. They should take Taunt enhancements and IOs, sure, but not pet IOs.
I do kinda like the idea, though.
Mmmm, that's a fair point - I envisioned the whole damage upfront as being the reason for why Pet IO slotting could be a thing, but I guess Flash Freeze already takes Targeted AoE damage IO slots, so I was probably being greedy there. I'll quickly revise that accordingly. Thanks for the heads up! And glad to hear you do like the concept behind it; I wanted to give a lingering effect to the Sleep, and I figured fragile targets that distract and slow the enemy for a little while made sense for it.
Still tossing around the idea of having an additional effect upon destruction, but I'm not sure what that might look like.
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53 minutes ago, Trickshooter said:
Honestly, I'd rather just remove the tiny damage from Flash Freeze, as that is the only difference between it and Mass Hypnosis I can think of that warrants FF having double the recharge time compared to MH.
That's definitely one avenue to take! I figure that at level 18, it ought to be a little more versatile than a mass Sleep (though this is a thing I've talked about Sleeps in general). So I decided to fully lean in to the whole idea of "summoning ice to trap the enemy" - I was trying to simulate enemies attempting to break out of their confines, with being "woken up from Sleep" as "having freed themselves enough to try and chip out".
Also, I'm pretty sure there's some people out there who proc Flash Freeze out to the gills with Targeted AoE damage, didn't want to take that away from them.
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1 minute ago, Razor Cure said:
Would that even work in Iceslick? Isn't it a pseudopet?
Absolutely! It just has a single chance for activation on use - but since it has a 30 second recharge on a 2 PPM proc, it basically maximises that chance. Try it out on Earthquake, you'll see it occurring more often than not.
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4 hours ago, Greycat said:
Curious as to why you'd want to add KB enhancements to Ice Patch. (And I'm asking this as someone who uses KB.)
"More slotting options" is somewhat vague, and I don't think I've ever wanted ice patch to do KB - if anything, it'd work against much of the rest of the set, scattering enemies out of the way of arctic air or shiver, not to mention your AOE controls. Adding the option to slot slows makes sense (and fits in with the rest.) Even a chance for / slotting for stuns would (they fall down, hit their head, they're stunned 🙂 ) Do you have a specific "I wish I could slot this" KB set in mind? I'm assuming it'd be one that needed (and had) a KB-KD enhancement, which would simply bring it back into what it does now...
Two words: Force Feedback. Delicious, delicious +Recharge.
More slotting options = more Set IO opportunities in my mind. Earthquake, which is basically "Ice Patch but debuffs ToHit/Defence" has the ability to slot for Knockback and -ToHit. I'm just giving Ice Control the same parity as Earth.
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Would definitely be interested in @oedipus_tex's thoughts on these proposed changes - I've seen you talk about this powerset a fair amount, so it's clear you've got a fair amount of experience with it. I think you've expressed a good deal of interest in this powerset in the past, in fact!
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General usability/issue-ish-ness w/ FoldSpace, TeleTarget, and CT
in Open Beta Testing
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True! I do like how thematically fitting it is that it'd do that too. Combat Teleport means that slotting for accuracy in some longer-recharging powers mightn't be necessary. Potentially opens up a few things.