Completist

I guess I agree that viable competition between 50 vs below-50 is mostly illusory. But I like the level caps to create restrictions that change up the game play a little. I like the idea of BB maxing at 25, preventing you from getting your T9s, changing the balance of how different builds work out; but admittedly don't know if it matters in practice (I'm getting the feeling that PvPers want to play with all their toys). Making all 4 zones level 50 would diminish the (balance/feel) character of each zone, but it would give 50s more background variety to their PvP--and maybe that sacrifice would be worth it for the PvP devotees. If 99% of PvP happens in RV anyhow, the different level balance in the other three zones doesn't matter; changing things would only hurt 1% and improve the rest by giving it more variety. I'd sayone zone should stay capped below max--like you said, leaving BB at 30 or something--to be a 'dip your toe in' experience for players who don't want to go all in against hardcore players right away... but perhaps this idea has some merit.

Are you saying that the devs are removing entry requirements in PvP zones? I suggested this a couple weeks ago and ... didn't get the best reaction. But if so, that's rad. I am a PvE player, I want access to the badges and temps, but also happy to try those zones out at a lower level. Hunting BP masks in Bloody Bay, for example, is kind of cool and the potential of running into an enemy player gives it an interesting danger. The response above about it being a faux pas to attack someone unless you're in RV is baffling to me, heck yeah I'm going to start something if I happen to meet up with someone in one of those three ghost towns. Raising every zone would create worse character disparities in those zones. As an example let's say someone gets out of their DFB grind at level 20 and decides to go to Siren's Call. They are a little interested in PvP so they have a defensive build and fully slot out their powers. With the caps as-is they're a handful of powers behind and don't have all the juicy set bonuses that the 50 does, Exed down to 30, but they know the risks, and maybe the fight lasts a little while (maybe they bring a friend.) Instead, SKed up to 50, they are now 30 levels worth of powers (plus epics) behind. Unless the EX system jacks their SOs up to ridiculous levels (which in my experience it does not) they'll be way farther behind. Reading this thread I get the feeling that "zone PvP is terrible and only Arena Versus is good" which suggests changing the zones isn't going to change that. Changing them to fit that mindset (removing badges and mobs) seems pretty drastic. And sorry if I'm misreading it and you actually mean to lock all pvp to level 50 only, which would be even crazier.

Essentially arbitrary. It's a low enough level to add challenging restrictions to character building, but not so low that there aren't any choices, and enough slots to have a decent attack chain. Maybe 16 would be allright, since it opens up 1 more power choice and the secondary T5. It's also the lowest level you can enter a PvP zone, not that that really matters. I have been running at 15 blaster for a while and wondered if anyone had gained different insight. I have two builds, one for typical play (snap shot, fistful of arrows, explosive arrow with KB>KD) and one for sneaky speed (stealth, SS, sprint with a +Stealth IO, mostly ST damage)

What do you think the best level 15 build would be? Survivability? Solo-ability w/Damage and GM fighting? Straight up damage (assuming you have teammates to take aggro)? It's pretty tricky to build up defenses because of the lack of slots; mostly SOs in everything because set enhancements at that level are DO-strength unless you are boosting 3 or 4 things. Of course there are some unique enhancements you might want to use like +Regen and -KB. And the P2W vendor special damage/recharge/proc enhancements are still available and quite good. I think a strong debuffer like Rad defender might be safest and strongest. I've got a pretty built-up Archery blaster, the innate +acc and two decent AoE attacks can be pretty fun. But as fragile as any low level blaster.

How about Vanguard Merits and the Vanguard Recruit day job? The Vanguard Recruit day job badge is level-locked to 35. Right now, characters of any level can get 10 Vanguard Merits by defeating the GM in a RWZ raid. I think the Vanguard Recruit badge should be unlocked for all levels, allowing players to get a few merits upon mission completion.

Comically, Incarnates at level 2 is one change I could get behind. It's hard to feel helpful while sidekicking up to 49, when the rest of the team is running at level 53. Of course I don't suggest changing any of the 50+ content so actually earning incarnate materials would remain end-game TF rewards. The ability to earn end-game rewards through challenging play, throughout your career, would incentivize actually doing content instead of just grinding or AE farms. But that's an aside. This whole thread has turned into the eternal power creep argument. The proposed change is too extreme to even consider. Right? Right.

I might be mis-understanding what you are asking for, but you can already do the influence transfer at least, without a fee. Email some Inf to your own global account and you can claim it later with any of your characters, including a new one.

Considering the Hammer Down badge which is for defeating the rioters specifically, not just the regular old miners in-zone, I was under the impression that the protesting miners were spawned in conjunction with the event. Glancing at 3-year old posts about how the event worked at the time, I'm not sure. But assuming I'm right, yes, I'm suggesting those guys be levelless, even the ones that spawn to protest before Scrapyard appears (if they still do that)... I'm not proposing it because of the uneven difficulty (GM fights are rarely done without a 50 around anyway); I just think it would make the event more exciting and unique to have underling-level guys showing up to cause chaos while everyone pounds on the big bad.

Despite not adversely affecting any builds, this would improve many builds, opening up another power selection in many cases. In particular it would improve the most highly-tuned builds most restricted by prerequisites. The best builds would potentially get a lot better, which would be unbalancing. I agree with people saying "change can be good", but reducing power restrictions has the effect of making the stronger choices easier to default into, which in turn makes builds more 'samey' and character building less interesting. Implementing this suggestion would be a sweeping change that is much more impactful than it appears at first glance. Changing core game systems just to make the numbers a little more symmetrical and pretty isn't justifiable.

The Ghost of Scrapyard event would be a lot more memorable if the Enraged Miners that accompany him used invasion leveling. Right now the event is too difficult at zone level, and the additional mobs are ignored if a 50 is leading the team. It would be fun and interesting if the Miners were underling or minion level instead of locked at level 25.

Nice work. Toggle buffs on allies are pretty neat. There are some parts I am skeptical of. The focal-point interactions are cool, but complex. You need two teammates to get full use out of Focal Point and Warp Shield; not every AT needs to be great at soloing but this is a stretch. There's a worrying amount of grief built-in. I don't think giving damage from one person to another is a good idea. Ideally, you'd be putting your tank at the focal point and blaster/aggro magnet at the warp, but people make mistakes (or sometimes you don't have a tank). If I'm the blaster, I'm gonna complain when I start taking extra damage (shield whatever) and dudes keep getting teleported right next to me. (I love how Dispersal works though.) And you also included an Ally Intangible which is even more dubious than an Enemy Intangible. Maybe the caster should be the focal point for Warp Shield, giving the AT a little more solo prowess. You could give it some weird thing where if Focal Point is active, allies between the Warp and the Focus get the defense buff. That would be a neat spatial feature in a set about space manipulation. Displace (foe) is a little lackluster; add a damage component. Overall, really nice first draft.

The Rikti Monkeys spawned during Rikti Invasion events don't count for the Zookeeper badge. If that's intentional, feel free to disregard.

It seems like you are lumping me in with "the whiners", but based on this thing I said immediately preceding the quote above, I think we agree.

What problem is being addressed? Inconsistency in advancement structure, or level 14s with 2 prereqs? The system is asymmetric and a bit wonky, but that's okay. The level 20 powers being at level 14 would be fine. Trying to standardize it in the suggested way by reducing prereqs from 2 to 1, not only creates power creep (a bunch of builds get a new slot or a better prerequisite power), e.g. creating a method to skip boxing, but also simplifies character optimization, making the meta option easier to default to (which is bad). If the problem is "I hate taking useless powers", a better way to address that is coming up with tweaks that make "useless" powers more situationally useful. I dunno, maybe flag Boxing as "useable while stunned" like a Blaster T1/2; your training has taught you to fight back in difficult situations. Is that a much better power? Yes. Is it still kind of a garbage power for most people who just want Tough and Weave? Yes, but you might keep it on your second tray just in case.

That is a really smart response, which I appreciate. You make a lot of good points. I simply don't agree that the accolade level limits matter for the majority of players. The theory is sound, but the fact is, there is no rush to pick up accolade powers as soon as characters hit 21. No one says "Damn, now I've got this burden of acquisition or my 21-30 content is going to be too hard." You just play on and maybe go badge hunting to mix it up once in a while. The players it matters for are the ones like me, who like playing lower level stuff not in Flashbacks and want access to those rewards if they take the time to earn them. The content is all designed already. It wouldn't have to be changed to accommodate those few players seeking to farm zookeeper at level 1. And those players would be the ones who are already doing it for novelty value. Yeah, you'd have an advantage over other characters of your level, but for how long? You can get to level 20 in a couple DFBs. If the goal is just "get levels", AE exists. The fact that "other people can help you speed through challenges" is universal and irrelevant. "What effort is expended by the level 1 character standing in the door of Tina Macintyre and Maria Jenkins' arcs while a maxed out character knocks out Dimensional Warder?" About as much as the guy "knocking it out" for them. Accolade badges represent a different kind of progression; And yes, much of it is grinding. Cruising Striga Isle for werewolves in a big group. Tracking down every exploration badge and history plaque. It's silly, but it's work. And players should be rewarded for it, regardless of level. Rewarded with the badge, and the accolade power. Portal Jockey (req. Dimensional Warder) supports my assertion, since isn't one of the level locked badges I'm talking about. It's possible to get at level 1, but normal people don't bother, because it's difficult, and easier to get later when you're a higher level. As someone who has been slowly accumulating the necessary Praetorian defeats (11/14!) for Dimensional Warder at an artificially low level, I can confirm that it is not a walk in the park! It would be much easier to level to 50 sitting in some dude's AE farm. When I finally complete it I will feel some serious satisfaction, and I'll feel proud I got it at level 15. The "hey just get to level 35 then we'll talk" progress bar for Vanguard is just disappointing. If it's a balance issue (which I find doubtful), at least give me the badge. But then also let me have the power, thanks.

Fair enough. Even with attuned enhancements and IO set improvements, a character of a low level doesn't have the powers and slots to build "viable, let alone competitive" in PvP zones. But is that "problematic" or just a win for the 50s who have more targets to murder? I have enjoyed flying around collecting badges in the Shadow Shard woefully underleveled, and hunting BP masks at level 15 in Bloody Bay, and don't see the harm in letting players make "poor choices." Given the team-reliance of PvP in general I can see how it would be frustrating for real enthusiasts to deal with dead weight noobs dragging their team down, so I will concede the point. But TBH I think it would have little effect on PvP. How many actual level 30-but-not-38 players are there tearing up Warburg? How many below-50s are there? PvP is inherently endgame content, due to the economics of character building. So let's table the PvP talk and turn to Accolades. That sounds about right. I don't think the devs should unlock all the perks of character progression. In fact, I love negotiating those restrictions and optimizing characters at low levels. That's why I'm here. But Accolades already are locked by their difficulty in earning them. To deny that from someone who has gone through the trouble of say, killing 1000 rikti monkeys and accompanying higher-level friends on badge missions is, like I said in the OP, overly restrictive and unnecessary. How much work could it be to axe the level limits? Would it actually break anything? No accolade or temp power can match the effectiveness of a bigger team; is there really a danger in "unbalancing" some story arcs from the lower levels?

I suggest opening some level-locked zones and badges. PvP Zones - Bloody Bay (minimum 15, level set to 25), Siren's Call (20/30), Warburg (30/38). Is there a good reason for these PvP zones to be locked, or staggered the way they are? Maybe in the early days of CoV, they were staggered to prevent overcrowding. But in reality few players engage in PvP, especially in the lower level zones. What's the harm in the allowing all levels to experience that content (or 15+ if new players getting out of their depth is really a concern)? Non-optimized builds will go in and get ganked no matter what the lower cap is; the more the merrier. Recluse's Victory would remain endgame content. Accolades - Archmage (21), Freedom Phalanx Reserve Member (21), Conspiracy Theorist (30), Vanguard (35); Also RWZ Day job badge. Some accolade powers have level caps, some don't; It seems arbitrary. Is it game-breaking to have "early" access to the Crey Pistol (e.g.)? Especially considering the investment required to gain the prerequisite badges. Leveling up is already the core advancement pathway, no need to lock exploration and collecting into it. Imagine the reverse: "You can't level up until you've finished your patron arc". It's overly restrictive and unnecessary. If anyone can suggest reasoning for why the limits are good, I'd love to hear it. But to me they are a relic of dusty MMO design principles.

That was my intent when I posted the revision above. This Sentinel would be focused on dealing damage like a Brute, but in times of need (or on focused "perma-Opp" builds) they could extend those advantages to their allies against one target at a time. Blasters would still be the best damage dealer in typical play contexts, but when it comes to burning down AVs, these Sents could deal comparable damage and be a little safer to boot.

I really like this proposal, and would suggest the following refinement to make it even more streamlined and playable: Overwatch benefits should be on all the time and increased in effectiveness as the meter increases, like how Fury increases a Brute's damage. As the meter gets close to full, these gains would slow (to a lesser degree than Fury does—more like Domination), so the Sentinel must turn their focus to using ST attacks if they want max it out, automatically triggering an Opportunity. During the Opportunity, their Overwatch meter degrades twice as fast, but while it lasts, the "Sentinel's Mark" debuff is doubled, and allies can take advantage of it as well. In this version, the Sentinel's Mark debuff would be invisible to allies (and unaffected by their attacks) except during an Opportunity. Since Opportunity is a strong bonus, 50% of the debuff would be unresistable (instead of 100% unresistable). However, the resistible portion from multiple Sentinel's Opportunities would stack. This would create a couple of fun strategy pathways: either carefully build Overwatch and maintain it around 80-90% personal effectiveness, or max it ASAP and ride the rush (spam ST) to maintain it at around 90-110% effectiveness (45-55% meter, doubled) plus a big ally damage increase against your Marked target. The tradeoff of maintaining an Opportunity would be a big endurance expenditure and come at the expense of some of your AoE (since only your ST attacks build your meter). Transitioning to the next enemy group will quickly drain your Opportunity, creating a nice risk/reward incentive for the defiant Sentinel to consider quickly drawing more aggro and testing their defensive powers.

Neat idea! If they were to implement new ATs, an "Alpha Soaker" who can survive in short bursts but not as effectively as a tank would be high on my priority list. I like your tradeoff of "more aggro=more mitigation", a feature which most tank auras have, but in this case tied to a ranged cooldown. I don't like how they are almost required to take Demoralize to benefit from their Inherent. Mechanically it's quite similar to the Lasher I proposed above, but more streamlined and would be easier to implement. Bravo! Having stacks refresh when you use a support power is a cool way to keep them around, maybe a bit too good. In typical endgame play against lots of mobs, you could cap your resists at the start of a battle and they wouldn't drop as long as you did healing aura once in a while or something. Maybe stacks deteriorate faster if you have more of them (kinda like a Fury bad?) I'm guessing we'd probably want to modify any of this AT's Support Rez powers to work on self as well. I can imagine "Demoralize 6 guys, gain 6 stacks... fight, fight, 8 stacks, half health... do I Demoralize again or shed the aggro? Oops now the stacks expired, faceplant"

I've done some cheerleading and criticism in this thread, but not design, so I thought I would brainstorm and share a few of my own speculative Melee/Buff ATs. I am not sold on any of the names or terminology. #1: The "Lasher" (Buncher, Grappler, Rounder). Support/Melee. "Lashers" dart around on the edge of combat, pulling stragglers and runners back into the brawl and bunching them together. Inherent: Pressure. Enemies hit by the Lasher have their damage and power effectiveness (heals, mez, etc) reduced for a short time. (Works like a Blaster's Defiance, but applies a debuff.) Signature Move: Pull. nstead of Taunt at level 10 in their Melee secondaries, Lashers have a short-range pull, themed to the set such as Fire Lash, Ice Lash, or Crack Skulls. A target up to 20' away is pulled to the Lasher, takes minor damage, and rooted with a soft mez (immob, disorient, kd, depending on powerset). 1-3 nearby foes have a 50% chance of getting pulled along. The pull would either be a TP or inverted Repel effect. Animations would be altered on elemental whip lashes (a la DS MM), or Taunt/Hand Clap for martial ATs: "come here and get punched". #2: The "Stalwart" (Medic, Banner, Captain). Melee/Support. Stalwarts stand at the front lines and protect their allies but must take care not to be overrun. Inherent: Focused Resolve. The Stalwart builds "Resolve" with each hit, a measure of their determination in battle, which quickly fades if there are no enemies nearby. While their Resolve lasts, enemies in front of the Stalwart (20' cone, 180 degrees) have their damage reduced, and more susceptible to the Stalwart's secondary power effects (def/heal/mez/etc); higher Resolve creates a stronger debuff effect. Resolve also increases the effect of the Stalwart's friendly abilities (heals, buffs etc) on nearby allies (PBAoE, 20'). Positioning would be key, since you'd want to keep enemies in front of you and allies behind. #3: The "Trickster" (Guide, Infiltrator). Melee/Support or Assault/Support Tricksters aid from the sidelines or the shadows, helping their team while staying safely beneath their enemies' notice. Inherent: Hide. Trickster's T1 secondary replaces one of those support powers and works like Hide (less stealth with a slightly better defense scale). On those powersets with stealth powers (Steamy Mist, Arctic Fog, etc.) those get shuffled upward. While hidden, the Trickster's non-damaging powers do not alert enemies to their presence. Attacking or taking damage will temporarily reveal you. Signature: "Power Placate" (as suggested by the OP) Instead of a taunt power, Tricksters can placate a foe and immediately become hidden. For a short duration, their damage and mez effects of their powers is increased. Sounds like a pretty safe defender but you'll be up close and only doing medium damage. Perhaps also give them a power boost or mini-crit when hidden or attacking from hidden.

I agree with your sentiment, @Luminara, but I think that "just debuffs" could be restrictive to the point of overkill, and the resulting AT would miss out on some of the appealing variety that exists within the buff sets. Instead of focusing on that one game mechanic, build an AT that will "Quick, tactical guardian" is a great idea, and we needn't redesign the wheel to make one. If your new AT emphasizes strategic positioning and tactics, it should have some control... but it would be good to keep it soft, like the existing options in most of the Support sets. Why does it feel like we could use a new AT? The meta. If I think it's fun to support AND to punch people, my only option currently, is to take some mediocre pool powers. Especially underwhelming when you factor in low melee scales of Support ATs and *ugh* MM's huge endurance fees. Creative builds and procs can bridge the gap between ATs--I had an EM stalker back on live who could daze AVs with all her stacking Disorient procs (played like a punch controller and was super fun)--but with the changes to procs and reduced effectiveness of melee holds (for the sake of balance) I dunno if high concept builds are still viable.

You're right that it would take a lot of work to overhauling the Support sets to eliminate "team-only powers". But why is that necessary? Consider how crucial it is to your vision that Melee pairs with Support in a different way than it does Ranged/Control/Pets. You should start with a mission statement. What is your goal in designing a new AT? What is your intended player experience or party role? Because as described it's a lone-wolf kickpuncher with placate and soft control. What's the one thing this AT will be best at? What playstyle is currently missing or undersupported that you want to give players? Start by designing the Inherent! (Rambling Sentinel criticism goes here.) You don't want to end up with an AT that feels unfinished or unnecessary. Again, it's important to determine whether you are designing a squishy Skirmisher who darts around in combat, a brave Guardian that leads his allies into battle, or a wary Stalwart that supports the front lines and deals with any stragglers, etc. If your goal is Punching and Support, make the AT about Punching and Support. It probably isn't a good idea to replace Confront--situationally weak, but nonetheless a Punching/Support power--with a Control/Defense Power Boost + Placate ... Either that power steps on many other AT's toes or you have to weaken it to nothingness.

I love what you guys are doing and have faith that you'll continue to implement awesome stuff. Before taking it "live" I think you should consider updates and improvements to many of the game's older systems. make IO enhancements Attuned by default As part of a market balance/overhaul, making set IOs inherently Attuned would be much more straightforward than the current system. "endgame"/Incarnate unlocks at 15 Encourage players to advance through content by making Incarnates unlockable at a lower level. AE farming would stay viable, but expert players could jumpstart their shard drops by playing story arcs. I'd also make all PvP zones (and Vanguard recruitment) accessible at 15; Hami/TFs/Story Arcs keep their level requirements, Incarnate trials still locked to 50. Heroes with XP turned off get vet level experience instead. zone critters scale to player tier (rather than level) Outdoor (i.e. non-instanced) zones would be more evocative if the enemies scaled to player tier instead of player level, similar to how holiday enemies and GM's work. For example, typical Atlas Park mobs could con +0 to a level 1-4 character, -1 to a level 5-19 character, and so on up to -10 to a level 50 character; a level 1 character running around in Brickstown would face +6 mobs, whereas a level 50 would face -4 mobs, adjusted by their difficulty. Perpendicular rewards could be awarded for defeat badges and completion of appropriate story arcs, giving +1 or more effective rank vs. certain enemy factions. This would also allow easy creation of level 55+ zone content that remains challenging to +3 Incarnates and beyond. Foes inside instanced missions would remain unchanged. automatic web-based character tracker/sharer Easily share your character profile, badges (and costumes?) with an integrated web interface.

I totally agree with you that that is a problematic feature of CoH's design. And equalizing all Tanker /T1s wouldn't fix it! How about opening up both /T1 and /T2 to first level characters of any AT? That would increase build choice, and make more players happy at the cost of a little complexity for newbies. If complexity is undesirable, make it a respec exception. Win-win.