Riverdusk

Nostalgia is powerful, but it was just as sweet as I remembered so there's a good chance you'll still find it so. And yes, it is still the best MMO.

Except slows only augment teams that themselves are slow moving. Something that is much more rare now a days than they used to be. Slows are amazing, but take time to become amazing, more so than other debuffs. A tohit debuff for example can be applied and instantly can be powerful, not so with a slow. Slows actually aren't extremely powerful in conjunction with a team with a lot of damage dealers on them because the slows never have a chance to take effect before everything is dead. On a team like that slows are completely worthless. As to buffing it to solo vs. team, I think the most important improvement the set needs is to flash freeze...to make it more useful in a team. Old style one and done click sleeps are notoriously rarely useful in teams. On another note, something I haven't seen mentioned, another big difference between earthquake and ice slick isn't just the slotting, it is that EQ has a -10% tohit debuff. That helps it be much more safely used on an alpha strike to help avoid some of the pot shots mobs fire off before they might fall down. So, just another way earth control has another safer way to help control alpha strikes compared to ice (along with stalagmites of course).

Just now reading over this thread as I recently started a new ice/psi dom (and having fun). Always loved the feel and look of ice control, even with its problems. Had an ice/storm controller on live long long ago. Just wanted to correct your numbers here as you seem to be listing the -movement speed values, not the -recharge values that are sometimes, but not always, the same. I also added in Jack Frost's. All numbers are from in-game under power info. Also these are controller numbers, I added dom numbers in parentheses. Jack is the same since he is a direct copy for both sets. You are right -500 recharge would be needed to floor a level 50 +0 AV (who has an 85% resistance) to the -recharge cap of 75%. Of course that increases even more due to the purple patch if you are fighting AVs +1 to +4 in level to you. So, more like closer to around -1000% if you want to get close to flooring a lvl 54 AV. Chillblain = -25% (-20% dom) Block of Ice = -37.5% (-30%) Frostbite = -25% (-20%) Arctic Air = -62.5% (-50%) Shiver = -81.25% (-65%) Glacier = -62.5% (-50%) Jack Frost (Chilling Embrace) = -50% Definitely like a lot of the ideas here. I would have been happy just making flash freeze a pulsing sleep patch like electric's, but your idea for it is very creative and cool. Some unresistable -recharge would be a great addition. Some minor added AoE damage to Jack I think is the only thing he's missing, I'd just give his chilling embrace some damage just like dom's version in ice assault got. Yes, arctic air should get a boost somehow for doms. I like your shiver idea as well. Right now it is an automatic skip for me and it definitely needs something to make it tempting.

Looked like a great change to me as well, a shame.

Exactly. OP in single target (if it even is) doesn't really mean much for the vast majority of this game's play for the majority of the playerbase. I personally like it because I spend a lot of time just going solo through the content and find it fun to solo TF's (NOT on x8), and literally never farm, so I think it'll work well for me (just like my DM/SR stalker did). EM as a teaming powerset should be...okay. And I think if anyone suggested it for farming they'd probably be laughed at. There are so many ways to handle endurance issues in this game now I personally don't consider DPE that big of a plus. If someone wants to play more old school though and ignore all the new tools, then I could see that being more important for them. But for me, even leveling up I almost always have all the usual special IO's slotted, the P2W buff going, P2W recovery serums handy, and the SG base buff going (the SG base buff and recovery serums are the two most underrated, cheap and amazing). If all that isn't enough (I found it almost always is), you still have epic pool and incarnate options.

@Croax made a nice one for Stalkers that I found helpful.

I disagree that it is "all well and good" myself actually. Planned obsolescence is not a great design philosophy imho.

/shield is also a good one for increasing damage, and adding more AoE. But yes, can't go wrong with energy aura on a stalker and in this case energy/energy is the thematic matching combo, so extra points there if that is something that appeals to you.

Lot of awesome screenshots, looks amazing.

So, now that trick arrow has some nice changes, can we please add the ability to customize the colors? Seems like you can make color changes by changing the powers to "no redraw", but then the color changes don't actually do anything. My main beef is with disruption arrow. Its pulse is so bright and it pulses so fast I find it really annoying. If I was subject to seizures, I'd be afraid it'd be a trigger event (thankfully I'm not). I had hope to at least try to recolor it with darker colors to tone it down, but no go.

Always felt the same. I don't even mind the full effect if it'd just only happen rarely. Once in a while it is fun to be knocked back, but in this game it tends to either never happen or is constantly happening and being chained knocked down/back is not fun. Only thing I can think of is to give some enemies a rare chance for their knockback to have a big mag increase (kind of like a knockback crit). But a lot of people will probably hate that idea. 😄

I wonder if people would be as resistant to adding some significant amount of mez resistance rather than protection to some of the epics. I know a lot of people look down on resistance but once you get a significant amount of it, I do find it can be useful. This is from my experience with radiation's accelerate metabolism which gives about 200% mez resistance (which cuts mez time down to about 1/3rd). Still dangerous to get mezzed, but I found myself dying a lot less from mezzes when for example a 12 second hold only lasts about 4 seconds when I had AM running. And it still isn't going to let you tank, if a whole mob is beating on you, 4 seconds is still going to = death unless you use one of the other "ways" to break out or avoid it. But it would be enough to help against the occasional mez thrown your way. I've thought before actually I think the game would have been better if mez protection didn't exist and it was all just resistance. Then things wouldn't be so binary. Tanks would be given enough res that they'd shake mezzes off almost instantly and it'd go down from there based on AT. That was probably partly thrown out because in the old days it also dropped all your defensive toggles and it was a pita to retoggle everything, which thankfully that doesn't happen anymore. But that'd be a whole different game at this point.

Yep, they really are kind of OP. I could definitely see the argument for nerfing/removing the P2W amp honestly. They are the first thing I buy on every new character I make (at level 1 you can buy 8 hours worth for 8k each).

Necessary no. As just another option (among the many already), would be nice. If you want to just depend on break frees (or P2W, or incarnate) and save a power pick, you'd still be free to do so.

Okay, not sure what that has to do with what you quoted I said. The personal degradations are also just wonderful. 🙄

Pretty much, or in expensive or limiting ways. The P2W vendor power is kind of an example of the worst most non-eglaritarian way of dealing with the whole issue. For some they'll consider the price a huge expensive burden, for others it is a drop in the bucket. Pay some influence and you have full comprehensive mez protection that actually even beats out some armor sets (as it also gives confuse, fear, and knockback protection that some armor sets are missing). As I stated before the whole mez issue has basically been dealt with already, we've crossed that rubicon. It is already readily available to all (also as an incarnate choice, and somewhat available in more limited form through some pool power choices). It is also already an option for controllers in one of their epic pools. So, we're just debating having that option added in an epic pool choice for those AT's currently missing it. Not seeing the big deal myself, although I probably would model it on indomitable will so that it takes a separate power choice. For those that feel "mez isn't a big deal" can simply choose to not waste a power pick on it. I wouldn't necessarily always take it myself, but it'd be nice to have another option.

Agreed as an option. I'd honestly like to see it available to the +def and +res IO pet procs as well. The +res shields are way worse as they are neon orange glaring pulsing ugly things, whereas at least the +def indicator is a bit more subtle of a pale purple. They look really ugly pulsing away on all my MM pets.

Okay, not to pick on just you as others have made this point, but this argument I find kind of silly. Does this mean that since break frees exist that melee AT's don't need mez protection either? Defense inspirations also exist, so maybe we should get rid of all defensive powers too? Healing inspirations exist so I guess we don't need any healing or regen powers in the game? Etc. etc. As to the original idea I'd be for it or something similar, as that rubicon has already been breached. At this point it is just a matter of if you have the influence to spend to get comprehensive mez protection (through P2W vendor) or being forced to pick clarion as your incarnate. Something even more on point, Controllers already have something close to this very suggestion (Indomitable Will in psi epic pool). So why not give at least one similar option to at least one of the epic pools to defenders, corrupters, and blasters? Why do only controllers get it?

I think perhaps you just need to keep trying different sets. I think more than most AT's, control sets are more varied in playstyle. Personally I'm not a big fan of mind, electric, or gravity either. On the other hand I very much like illusion and plant control. Fire and earth are also not bad at all. Plant is probably the earliest blooming (sorry pun) as you can pretty reliably shut down an entire mob with seeds of confusion by level 8 and it is easily up every single spawn with its recharge even with minimal slotting. Yes, often even bosses (between domination or control crit or (much later) contagious confusion proc). Plant also does good damage between its double damage roots (compared to other controllers aoe immobilizes) and carrion creepers. Add a plant controller to a low level team that is struggling and watch things instantly become 10 times easier. Fire and earth can pretty much shut things down by level 26 or 18 with flashfire/bonfire or earthquake/stalagmite. Most bosses tend to not have any extra knockdown protection. Fire of course also has very good damage. Illusion is a whole different beast and plays more like a mastermind but with unkillable pets and also good damage.

Also seen this as people talk up caltrops as a "proc bomb". My own experiences of trying that I found very disappointing. For the results I've seen, I can usually find a much more useful place to use those slots. I gave up and ended up only 2 slotting it on my illusion/traps with two damage/slows.

I like a lot of the ones already mentioned. One of my favorites I haven't seen mentioned yet though is Howling Twilight. That one has one of the coolest feelings/sounds to it. Even beyond the cool sound it has, it also makes you feel pretty powerful the rare times when you rez several people at once with it.

I'd actually save the ice/invuln for when you want to give a stalker a try. Ice melee is best on a stalker as assassin strike is better than greater ice sword that it replaces and ice is a set that doesn't give up any AoE compared to the scrapper version. Invuln is actually quite nice on a stalker as well and makes them pretty tanky for a stalker.

The only control sets that use sleep to any real degree in my experience are mind and electric. Not sure what you mean by sleep being the main control mechanism as sleep is skipped entirely on most sets by most people. If you are looking for damage there are good options that can generally rival and sometimes beat a corrupter (gravity or illusion for ST, plant or fire for AoE). Having support as a secondary set on a controller is usually about the same buff/debuff numbers as you get on a corrupter and can definitely be powerful. Now, if you get on a team that is just steamrolling through everything, then yes, controls aren't the most useful. Control comes in more useful if a team is struggling a bit and you can single handily turn the entire team around many times in those situations. On my controllers on some teams I feel like I'm not doing much, other times I feel like I'm saving the whole team, so it is probably a more swingy AT than most in how much I feel I contribute, in my experience.

Umm, stalkers very much have ice melee, in fact a better version of it compared to any other AT. If you want to play ice, stalker is by far the way to go. Will add not to come across as too harsh, there are other reasons you might want to play it on another AT, but just comparing it strictly based on ice melee vs ice melee stalker version wins because AS>Greater ice sword.

Yep, having -regen helps, but AV's can also be taken down with enough dps and/or -resistance and MM's are usually good enough. Force field might be the only secondary that might struggle a bit since it really offers no extra dps, -res, or -regen in any way (bots overcome that with their own -regen so that combo is still popular). Giant monsters on the other hand can be quite a bit harder, but I don't think there is a single TF that has a mandatory GM to kill. The one in Numina isn't a full strength one so it doesn't count. As said you can also just use daggers to help or incarnate interface. You can also use the incarnate Longbow Lore pet that has -regen. A MM is particularly suited to make use of Lore pets since they tend to help them with survivability that a lot of other AT's can't. Of course the incarnate stuff is only good for TF's level 45+.