SwitchFade

An io at lvl 30 is comparable to an SO at similar level. Heck, even most plain io's at lvl 25-40 are also similar in value, due to ED and diminishing returns. If we're talking DA as a set with identity, flavor, unique mechanics or damage mitigation, the set doesn't do any one of these well when compared to any other set, as stated by others. Classic sets such as stone, invuln, fire, ice all offer better mitigation, lower cost for said mitigation and less trade offs. Now, if DA is, and should be, meant to achieve mitigation NOT by way of resist/defense, but through unique mechanics, it should be excellent at THOSE mechanics. As it stands now, to achieve COMPARABLE capabilities to other sets, the investment is greater, the trade offs more painful and the unique mechanics are lackluster. There's a few paths here, should the choice be to move from baseline (i.e. now). 1. Buff damage resist/defense mitigation values 2. Reduce end consumption to make it less costly to run built in capabilities 3. Buff the unique mechanics to be MEANINGFUL 4. A combination of 1-3 Regardless of the approach, whether it be a straight resist buff or a controller ish buff, the set is badly in need of revision. As it stands now it is horribly expensive for little return. If DA in its current form were a project I had to sponsor or approve at work, the Net Preset Value of this investment opportunity is NEGATIVE and not approved. I would require a significant improvement in NPV and RoI to authorize it.

Egads! No thanks.

Thanks for the blatant, brash disrespect. I would recommend against it in the future. As you seem acutely focused on not acknowledging a fact that you posted 2 pages back above is your paragraph clipped your first objection and your full second paragraph with NO objection.... None of that is an objection in the SECOND PARAGRAPH you keep lamenting. It's called an ALTERNATIVE proposal. You literally said you want a reason to run them all vs cheaper. AGAIN, your only objection is "cuz it's ok." Fine, it's ok, TO YOU. Super, I respect that. It's clearly not ok to the majority, so now .. Do you have any factual objections to an end redux? Because, you know, it would still be OKAY if it was cheaper. There you go. Facts.

Again, snide comments aside, you only stated one objection to END redux: "it's fine." You have given no other direct objections to END redux, you have given other information, which I respect. Regardless, none of that is a reason you OBJECT to END redux. I suggest you review it.

Uh, I suggest a rework of your build. On stalker it makes you basically unkillable.

Ok, so, enjoy the balance challenge is the objection to end redux, that's respectable. Before we make the assumption that no one uses SOs, we should get data. Perhaps a Dev can post data of all toons that use SOs, stratified by lvl range?

Your snarky sarcasm aside, I DID and you waxed irrelevant. Your only specific was "cuz just fine."

The proper use of sleep is... Wait for it... To feel better when you wake up. So you can eat more pie.

All great points! Are you against an end redux in the set?

To be very clear, you are against an END reduction because "just fine"? It would be just fine with an END reduction, too. And you could still play just the same as now, but others, especially those who can't play well on SO slotting could now enjoy the build. Again I ask everyone, Why, specifically, are you AGAINST an End redux? It has no detrimental effect on how you play now and would increase the player base of the set

I want to get clear answers from the dissenters: Why, EXACTLY, are you objecting to a reduction in end consumption?

I've seen Cipher in game.

/jsorrynovote

No one said unplayable, I said un-fun. I didn't advocate buffing it, so arguing that while quoting me is irrelevant. The baseline is what the game was built on, SOs. There's no debate there, sorry. You aren't the majority, so blanket statements that it's fun and fine without facts are your opinion, which i respect. Factually, it's unpopular, derided and lags almost all other sets. How and why making IOs the balance point breaking the game has been explained to death, you'll just have to trust the dozen of us that always show up and state it's game breaking, or research it yourself, should you so choose. Again, I'm not saying DA needs a buff, it is an end hog with NO justification for that.

Uh, so the point is, that DA isn't just flavor different, it's severely underperforming. So much so that it's significantly un-fun for the majority. I'm not voting either way, but if you want It playable in the baseline game, which is SOs, it needs either an end cost reduction or a justification of why end cost is so high. It currently has neither. Making any argument based off of "shouldn't be balanced around SOs" or the equivalent, ignores a basic foundation of system mechanics, you MUST have a baseline. It cannot be io's, as this would break the game.

まちがています。 Tank with no taunt lose aggro to brute, blaster, stalker, scrapper... Sad tank. Sad panda.

Yes.

Scrappers have higher sustainable DPS than brutes, as well as higher spike damage on demand.

Not feasible due to the sheer amount of work. Sorry, not going to happen anytime soon.

/jnovote.

What you may be missing is... Not that DA shouldn't have it's unique mechanics and balance considerations, but that those severe drawback should come with significant benefits As it stands, with SO's, nearly every tank primary is just as strong or STRONGER without the accompanying END issues. Either make it stronger or make it less hungry.

50+ water/SR here. The set blooms around 40. Other than that, no cons. It's ridiculously durable. Paired with healing from defensive, it's superb. I run at +4/8 and tank everything, including AV's and GM's.

Any change that removes the healing of defensive opp is an instant no vote from me. It may seem small, but having defensive up and healing on every attack adds up quickly. I'd also have to no vote decreasing survivability.

Yeah, gonna have to emphasize this. I've looked at all angles of this and DA is just too hungry overall, not even running all the toggles.

Honestly, this is a solution chasing a problem. Even if it were entertained, the time investment to change things would be immense and alter so much of the game architecture. Sorry, no vote.