SwitchFade

I'm at a loss concerning how much Dev time and work is needed for this. That said, if it's minimal, I would +1 more color options!

My PB has 85% all but psi, 50% to psi, max HP, status resist, a little under 200% damage, 3 heals, endurance management, defense debuff (you never miss) and my favorite part: completely self sufficient no matter if it's one enemy, no enemy, twenty, a giant monster, or an Archvillain. :P PB are quite strong, agreed. Then add to that 3 blasty pets, -rech and slow on foes, with tp, Rez and self heal/end recovery, and warshades actually do pull out, as this is all in squiddy blaster form. PB are a bit safer, and do require much less maintenance. WS require more attention and maintenance, and become more powerful. Which actually was the design intent.

You created 2 ppm threads. And there's a third one. Perhaps my request of consolidation is relevant, and maybe the thread can be renamed to PPM FAQ? Strange, it might actually get more people talking in one place and Garner more feedback. But you know, that's all based on the suggestion that more interest and input is good. *Shrug*

I'll refrain from using the word taunt here. It does cause aggro above what a blaster normally pulls from attacking. I notice that its threat level is easily eclipsed by other things. For instance, I have tested moving into melee and going passive, getting aggro, then waiting while scrappers set in, and controllers buff... I then lose aggro quickly. So, it does draw attention, but it is much lower threat level than most other things. Mainly, it negates invisibility when trying to ghost.

I played an AR/Dev to 41 on live, ONCE. It was painful. Devices is lackluster in several ways. Gun drone is slightly unique amiung secondaries for blasters, but a Perma buff? Hmmm. Perhaps make it more potent while up? I suggest make it more like phantom army, invinc while it's up, and pulls tons of aggro. Add utility to it, blasters do plenty of damage.

We now have 3 ppm threads, mods, can we close/consolidate them?

We now have 3 ppm threads, mods, can we close/consolidate them?

We now have 3 ppm threads, mods, can we close/consolidate them?

OP, glad you found merit in the responses, and proof that diversity is real so that people who live blindly can be encouraged to see... Hyperstrike, it'll all be ok given time. I look forward to your contributions. I hope you will join us in the future, in the spirit of inclusion. Justice, we'll said, my friend, I would +1 you again, if I could. PK, always nice to see you thread-mike-drop :)

At maximum potential, with macros and tray swaps set right, a triform Warshade will be the clear tankmage. In Nova form: Perma 85% resist all, 2-3 pets out Perma, 200-300% damage increase, a self heal, end recharge every group you slay, a self Rez, built in invis, tp, flight, and slow/-rech control, a cone mag 3 stun power With an experienced player, Warshade pulls dramatically ahead and transforms into a tankmage.

I've never heard of power levelers "believing the game is crap, and leave". On the contrary, let's be honest: some people's real problem with power levelers is precisely the fact that they AREN'T leaving! You can find herds of them hanging around in Atlas park any hour of any day, happily spamming the LFG channel for DFB and fire farms all day and all night. Do they LOOK like they're getting tired of it, and are going to leave any minute now? I'm not holding my breath. You're misunderstanding. Or I'm misunderspeaking. Or were misundercommunicating. Or, summin' summin' like that. Also, pie>cake.

I apologize for my mistaken assumption. Thank you sir I shake hands with your apology and offer my presumptions in trade for your assumption. Oh, and I apologize for the smell... It was MEEEEEEE!

PPM.... Parts per million? Muahahahaha.

Nonono, we just need to rename this thread to.... Perma Haeten. (See what I did there with "AE" and referencing the thread "Perma haten"?) I 3 slot my haten. With knockback. How you haten me now?

Harm is a pretty big stretch. I mean maybe you are just referring to harming the "health" of the game. But that's a ways from harming you. Harm requires injury. Bananas exist where they exist, but that doesn't mean I can stretch the definition to cover other fruits or vegetables. And conversely (and oddly enough, I am of your mind, in that I enjoy the grind): If people feel like grinding to 50 is super painful, they will leave If new players are being told their playstyle is wrong, they will leave If we don't acknowledge that most people doing DFB, AE, and PL'ing are existing players, we fail to see the forest from the trees And players have been trying to find the fastest, most exploity way to get to the max level since Issue 1 and 2, 3, 4, 5, etc[/ii] Like I said, I love the grind - never done more than a handful of DFB, never done any AE (although I do want to do the story arcs there, but not the farms). But I can understand there is a player mentality that differs from mine and will never enjoy the game the way I do. And I do want people to enjoy the game. And I will say that 80% of LFG chat is DFB, but I can count on one hand the LFG requests for farming or powerleveling. Maybe a little in the Help Chat...but it is still less than the constant bickering in help chat over what AT or Powerset is best and why... Switchfade, I know you are going to post back about politeness, and be clear, I am being polite. There is no sarcasm here, there is no intent to offend. Merely to rebut what I see as a misguided viewpoint. You are entitled to your opinion, and you are welcomed to respond, but please don't comment on my civility, because it isn't lacking Hrm? You were extremely courteous and respectful. You made very good points, which you don't need me to tell you that, because they're plainly good.

If members of our community leave due to their beliefs (rather than actuality), because they all "know" something, it's a shame. But it's not harm. Nobody is responsible for the beliefs of another. Whose responsibility is it to make sure new players are exposed to more of the game than just PL? Again, nobody is responsible for the beliefs/frustrations of others. If you don't like it, don't do it. If you don't like others doing it? Tough. Be very careful about speaking about what "we" want. Except where somewhere has jerrymandered what the term "harm" means. I suggest and encourage you to be more respectful in the future, and hope you can see that veiled sarcasm isn't helpful. A community is about the whole, and compromise. No one questions that pl'ing dfb, AE, or any of these things are fine. I'm perfectly ok with them. The issue many have expressed, and if you want us to recognize your views as valid you should reciprocate, is how chat spam about it overwhelming all other forms of play for new players is harmful to new player retention. We all want the game to have a healthy, viable long term community. To serve this, we must respect that new player experience should be engaging. If forms of play impact this negatively, that is harmful to long term game sustainability. Your opinion is valid. So are ours. Ae spam in chat is harmful.

I, too, love to enforce censorship upon things that hurt nobody yet I personally dislike. Remember, that one individual's perception that there is no harm, is not reality. I appreciate you see things a certain way, I hope you can accept others don't see things how you do. There are plenty of examples of how such spam warps perception of the game and disenfranchised new players. A society is a collective group that share values, behaviors ideas and agree upon good and bad. We all must be considerate of others, and not assumptive. Assuming something doesn't harm others and then doing that activity is counter to courtesy. We could assume dropping trash on the road is unharmful and do it, and require that proof be given to stop us. Those that do not believe in climate change use this argument, that pollution can't be causing change. If you assume dfb spam does no harm, you may be failing to consider that it does, just based on your belief. Courtesy and conscientious attitudes dictate that we think about the negative reprocussions of our behavior BEFORE we act, and do our best to avoid harming others, even if we don't have proof it would, or believe it won't. So, we all play together. No one cares about pl'ing or farming, or how fast people level. It is evident that spamming chat DOES cause harm, and people DON'T like it. The harm that it does to the long term viability of the game is evident. We don't ask that you have our opinion, just that you respect it, much as we respect your desire to run dfb. Everyone who resorts to "they just want to control me, kill my fun, make me play their way," etc, is missing the real point: how you play is not the issue, it is how chat spam and how powerleveling overwhelming all modes of play, and the negative effect it has on NEW players that is the issue. I firmly believe we should keep all these forms of play AND prevent the negative reprocussions of them. Please refrain from sarcastic snarky comments such as the censorship comment. It's really not helpful or kind. Once we have an official definition from the devs/admins, (or whatever group/entity is in charge), then and only then can we make an objective statement about what does or does not constitute "harm". That being said, it is also important to recognize the circumstances surrounding an interaction, as that will modify the threshold for what is or should constitute harmful actions. For instance, if the devs determine that advertising for powerleveling teams is a valid use of chat, it may still fall under the purview of "harm" if someone were to follow you around, stand in your way, and ask to be PL'd or the like, in local or via tells... If members of our community leave due to believing the game is terrible, because all they know of it is AE, dfb, so on... There's harm. If new players are only ever exposed to pl'ing and miss all the other parts of the game, and believe the game is crap, and leave.... There's harm If people make it to 50 in a day or two, have no clue what they are doing, and frustrate others... There's harm. If what we want is new players to fall in love with the game the same way we did in issues 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 etc.... Let's figure out how to do just that. Harm exists when it exists.

I dare any of these people to come up with an example other than Hurricane early in like i4. Travel suppression. Regen. GDN. Diversification. There's a few. Source your travel suppression comment. If it had anything to do with PVP, it would have been removed after i13. Remember Regins in Hamidon? Yeah. Not a PVE thing. In fact, Instant Healing as a toggle with the old mez system probably was worse than when it become a click. So.. GDN? Source please. Because if it was a PVP Nerf, then it would have been reverted after DR in i13. Diversification had nothing to do with PVP. You're making things up. I invite you to review the archives, where in the old Dev team discussed travel suppression, how arena highlighted the issues with kiting, and how they enacted travel suppression on ss, leap and flight. They left a loophole, by accident, that you could 6 slot hover, and it would get very near the speed of flight, and circumvent suppression. They then instituted ED. Likewise, the GDN was balanced around PvP also, where defensive sets were extremely potent, as well as when they cut resistance based powers in half. Please realize that these kinds of changes are in alpha and beta testing months to years before they even discuss them, and are connected to many things. PvP absolutely was a very significant reason they instituted travel suppression Ed, the GDN and others. PvP was in development long before issue 13, or even issue 6. PvP was always intended as part of the game. Regen was expressly broken in PvP, as they discussed, and they tried to balance it for that as well. Eventually, they made changes allowing pve and PvP to be drastically different, but in the beginning the "vision" was to change them closely together, because they did not want a player to encounter a dramatic change when moving from over to PvP, as it would be too disruptive. While they were slightly different, the devs were reluctant to make them dramatically different. All there in the old Dev archives, if one can access them. I recall the heated discussions each time a change was made, how players called for them to be completely separate, how Jack remained silent, and eventually was fired.

Please don't be snarky. The thread will degenerate. Even if he expressed his points, none of which I agree with, poorly, don't add to it.

I, too, love to enforce censorship upon things that hurt nobody yet I personally dislike. Remember, that one individual's perception that there is no harm, is not reality. I appreciate you see things a certain way, I hope you can accept others don't see things how you do. There are plenty of examples of how such spam warps perception of the game and disenfranchised new players. A society is a collective group that share values, behaviors ideas and agree upon good and bad. We all must be considerate of others, and not assumptive. Assuming something doesn't harm others and then doing that activity is counter to courtesy. We could assume dropping trash on the road is unharmful and do it, and require that proof be given to stop us. Those that do not believe in climate change use this argument, that pollution can't be causing change. If you assume dfb spam does no harm, you may be failing to consider that it does, just based on your belief. Courtesy and conscientious attitudes dictate that we think about the negative reprocussions of our behavior BEFORE we act, and do our best to avoid harming others, even if we don't have proof it would, or believe it won't. So, we all play together. No one cares about pl'ing or farming, or how fast people level. It is evident that spamming chat DOES cause harm, and people DON'T like it. The harm that it does to the long term viability of the game is evident. We don't ask that you have our opinion, just that you respect it, much as we respect your desire to run dfb. Everyone who resorts to "they just want to control me, kill my fun, make me play their way," etc, is missing the real point: how you play is not the issue, it is how chat spam and how powerleveling overwhelming all modes of play, and the negative effect it has on NEW players that is the issue. I firmly believe we should keep all these forms of play AND prevent the negative reprocussions of them. Please refrain from sarcastic snarky comments such as the censorship comment. It's really not helpful or kind.

If they see you rollin'... ...and they haten.... And you haten their haten... DOUBLE STACK PERMA RAGE-HATEN! *Def crash*

I dare any of these people to come up with an example other than Hurricane early in like i4. Travel suppression. Regen. GDN. Diversification. There's a few.

This thread is about Perma HATEN. I has a Perma haten for bad fish. Smelly.

Maybe it's "stop harming others to have your fun," that some people are pointing out. Personally? I don't care who farms or pl's, just don't post it in any chat at all. Don't impact new player experience with it. Even before AE I felt the same about peregrine farms, all fine, just stop posting it.

Only partially true because ae was reduced. Now, dfb is the scourge of lfg chat. Honestly, I couldn't care less about anyone farming or pl'ing, just keep all the posts out of chat. That way, newbies don't get exposed to it. No dfb, ae, dib or whatever in chat.