ShardWarrior

I think it a bit premature to cry doom over this. To be honest, I rolled one and I simply do not see what all the fuss is about. It was painful to level and at 50 is so far out shined by faster sets, I just do not see where the appeal is personally.

My favorites are people doing stuff like the Petless MMs! You would think this would not be fun at all, but there are people out there enjoying it and more power to them!

The same applies. I can introduce you to several people who will make any AT/power set combo viable and fun to play.

Same experience for me. I mean, it is a fun set to play at 50 but I honestly do not see what all the fuss is about. Even at lower levels it is not as good as faster sets in my opinion.

I would argue they underperform all the time lol 😁 For anyone looking to roll Ninjas/Dark - do not do it. Trust me. 😂

The players who left en masse after ED, GDN, purple patch and the like disagree with you.

So much ignorance and incorrect things to unpack here.... First, you can already let every AT and every power set feel valuable on as many teams as possible in the current game. If you or anyone else does not feel useful, this is a self inflicted problem and there is a very simple solution - stop PUGing. Either stop PUGing where you will not know for certain who you are teamed with or what their build is and such or accept the fact that you are going to get what you get with regard to the team. PUG teams are a roll of the dice and we never know what we will get. Nerf herding to a degree is trying to rig the dice in my opinion. Serious questions - what exactly is keeping you or anyone from staying on a team where they feel inadequate or not needed? What is preventing you or anyone else from socializing, finding others who enjoy the game the same way, forming your own groups to team up and run content the way you like? Where are the forum posts here or on Reddit or wherever setting up "old school" teams? If there are truly this many people looking for "old school" styles of play, where are the requests for this in LFG or other team forming channels? I personally have yet to see a LFG request for "forming non-incarnate old school team". Take advantage of the existing tools here and elsewhere to make full use of the multiplayer in MMO and socialize. Put in the effort, it is worth it. Throughout the years across many, many MMOs I have put in the effort and found the time to make friends with like minded players and have a blast playing together. If I found myself on a team I did not like, I left to go do something else. Anyone can do this. Anyone. Secondly, I in no way, shape or form said anyone is "special needs" or insinuate anything of the sort. That is 100% a projection you injected into what I said and to be quite honest is a truly disgusting thing to say. Let me be even more clear - you can have every single AT and every single power set nerfed and homogenized to the point where they all do equal damage 100% of the time and there are still going to be players who outperform others. Those players are going to be able to do better because they are simply faster, have better reaction time or are more experienced, not because anyone else is stupid. My post was not counterproductive with regard to suggesting others form their own teams as I expressly said people can form their own teams. It is you, not me, who seems to be insinuating people are incapable of doing that. As to mentoring, I do mentor people all the time. However from what I am reading here, some people seem to think that if I am somehow built better or react faster or have more experience or just want to play differently than they do, I am "making them feel bad" or "useless" or I am just doing it to lord over them, which could not be further from the truth. If I am capable of destroying entire maps solo while we are on a team and it makes you feel bad, I am not the one keeping you there - you are. It is interesting that you say I am insulting to others while accusing me of calling others "special needs." Forming your own teams to play the way you like is also a very viable answer to fix the perceived problem. It is the option that gives everyone the capability to play the way they find fun together with others who enjoy the game as they do. As I mentioned above, go right ahead and homogenize every AT and power set in the game to the point where everything is 100% mathematically equal. Remove IOs or enhancements of every kinds so everyone is exactly 100% the same. There are still going to be players who out perform others. Feel free to disagree.

Well no, but if you want to feel that way, more power to you. Feel free. While I do not agree with the tone that was used, I can understand the reasoning behind it. The nerfs to Regen, ED, GDN etc. drove quite a lot of people away from the game back in the day, so expressing caution about nerfing is a valid discussion point in my opinion. It is very easy to say people need to be tolerant and try to understand the viewpoint of others. Actually doing it appears to be another thing.

I am not defensive at all. No idea where you are getting that from. I have posted in this thread repeatedly for people to play the way they want and let others play the way they want which solves any perceived problems they may have with team play. Those who want to more heavily rely on others for fun can do so and those who prefer more solo play can do so as well. Everyone wins with more options.

I understood you perfectly and if you were to read posts I have made here, I understand and can empathize with others who have a different point of view. This is why I keep saying we should be looking for options, not attempting to balance around a universal play style couched in pseudo altruistic motives. I did not say you were rude or should not post your opinions or anything of the sort. Far from it.

I did not see anything in the post I was replying to about being the center of attention, just that blasters nuking is "not fun for anyone" which clearly is not true. Personally, I think people should find what is fun for them in game and do that which they find fun. Chances are very likely there are others who enjoy the same things and style of play, so we can team up and have even more fun together. That is the beauty of this game in that it can be played and experienced in many ways on many levels. If people want to enjoy teaming up and being heavily reliant upon others, they can do that. If people want to enjoy soloing or teaming up with others who are powerful enough to not need others, they can do that. If people just want to solo, they can do that too. Neither is wrong. Where I personally will take exception is where a select few want to force everyone into a particular style of play via nerf herding with pseudo altruistic posts saying it is "for the good of the game." Not saying you did this at all, however to me that is being just as selfish, if not more so. I will repeat this again, everyone CAN feel awesome. If you are on a team where you are not feeling useful, then find another team. If you are staying on a team where you are not having fun or feeling super, that is definitely a you problem not a game problem. Socialize, make friends with like minded people and go have fun together. More importantly, no matter what level of nerfs are applied, there are always going to be players who are simply better and will outperform others. Instead of advocating to nerf everyone down to a level where no one feels super because they need 7 other people to cross the street, we should be advocating for more choice in my opinion.

Right so I take it then that you feel those blasters and the fun they may be having do not count? I guess the only people who are allowed to have fun are those who follow a specific style of play. At least this is what it sounds like you are hypothetically trying to say unless I am misunderstanding you.

Well sure that could be possible, but it was not my question though. The post I was replying to said "3 blasters in the team nuking constantly every 20 - 30 secs is not fun for anyone. " What if those blasters are having fun doing what they are doing? Or do they not count because they do not fit into the narrative? Your question also seems to make the assumption no one else is doing anything on the team other than moving from mob to mob watching blasters just nuke.

It must be fun for those doing the nuking since they are doing it ever 20 to 30 seconds. Do they not count?

It would be nice to see this data for here. Back in the day I think most people were turned off by the absurd prices in the AH for IOs, so it stands to reason most did not use it. Homecoming here is much different in that regard. Again, just anecdotal to me personally - I see more characters with IO set bonuses listed in their info than not. We have no way of knowing for certain without seeing the numbers.

Are most people keeping level 25 common IOs though? I would be curious to see the data here. Again, just my own experience here with myself and others I team with but we are swapping those out for higher level IOs or IO sets as we can.

Yes I know as I did clarify at level 50. I wonder if it is possible to pull the data to see how many characters at 50 are still using SOs vs IOs?

Apologies as I should have clarified that I did not mean people who are purpled out or loaded up on all kinds of IO set bonuses, just common IOs. From my own anecdotal personal experience, most people are at least slotting common IOs as they get them because they level with you. As I recall, an even level IO is still ~10 to 12% better than a +3 SO at level 50, but do not quote me on that.

I agree and would add more content designed for and balanced around IOs and incarnates instead of just SOs.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with what you are saying here as it is a preference of yours. This is how you choose to play and have fun, so more power to you. You can already play all the content you like without incarnates, you just need to put in the effort to build your teams.

While I can understand and appreciate this point of view, it demonstrates a clear lack of understanding of how others view their hobby or past time. There are a great many people across all walks of life who have a passion for something, be it starting a business or following a favorite sports team or whatever. Those people are not spending their time and effort doing what they do because they see it as a chore or a job. It is an activity they enjoy doing and expecting them to treat it otherwise is absurd.

You are ignoring the lore and story content itself with regard to incarnates. Replay the final mission of the Mender Ramiel arc again and pay close attention to the final cut scene were he and Silos are referring to those touched by the well as "god-like beings". Your character is on that same path. I will repeat it yet again, Incarnates being powerful is not the problem The problem is the lack of content designed for and balanced around them is. Allowing incarnates to be used outside of DA and iTrials can be an issue for some as well, but that can easily be solved by forming a team appropriately or simply never crafting and slotting incarnate powers on characters and running the content how you like. I suppose so long as the team leader would advertise ahead of time, but that can be done now. And again, how difficult is it to not click an incarnate power button?

Low population is not something anyone has control over and if anything is an even better reason why people make solo capable characters. If you are getting a lot of tells and requests from others to for teams, I do not understand why you are saying it is difficult to find others who play as you do. Something does not jive there. There are jerks everywhere and they are very easily avoided. Again, if you are on a team that is not playing the way you like, leave the team and go find another one. Coding a "no incarnate" toggle is not necessary. You can already form a team of non-incarnates or request no one with them use them or un-slot them.

No offense meant, but this sounds like you are trying to make excuses. I play the overwhelming majority of the time on Torchbearer and I see non-speed TFs and mission teams being advertised many times daily. I am sure you would have no problem filling teams for how you want to play. You just need to ask. Well no, it has nothing to do with showing off. It has to do with people doing what they do in MMOs - being sociable and playing together because they want to. The people I team with regularly are real life family and friends and others who are like minded in play style. This is what we find fun and we are enjoying our game time together. To imply that myself and other with similar tastes are trying to somehow make others feel bad or inferior is so far off base, it truly the mind and says a whole lot more about you than them. If others are making you feel inferior, then do not team with them. Find others who play like you do. It is not like it is a difficult thing to do.

Except this is not entirely true and is more often than not a self inflicted issue. There is absolutely nothing preventing anyone such as yourself from using the available social tools both in game and out to find like minded players to team up with. Nothing is stopping you or anyone from advertising to form non-speed, no incarnate powers missions or TFs and the like in game. I know there are quite a few people who feel the same way from posts I have seen on these forums. What is stopping you from linking up in game, forming your own teams and playing how you all enjoy? This door absolutely swings both ways. Those who have invested a lot of time into building their characters the way they like to be as powerful as they like because that is what they find fun should not have to dumb down their experience to satisfy others. What I said above applies here too. Those people have plenty of channels to find like minded players who enjoy playing that way and they do find others to team with.