ShardWarrior

Except the TF did take (a lot) less time with debuffers than without.

Except without debuffs it takes longer. That is the point I was making. A team can do a lot of damage quickly or a lot of damage over a long time. Made perfect sense to me.

Alternatively this could also be accomplished by adding power set customization into things like punch and kick in the fighting pool.

I could be wrong but I believe this may have more to do with being stuck in an attack animation when needing to click a heal. Other sets do not need to worry about this as much as regen does.

My point was fairly obvious. As I said, the Reichsman fight can be a long, drawn out slog or not depending on what debuffs are used. I said nothing about survival. My thought was more about debuffs supporting a faster encounter time and more efficienct battle than just raw damage, but feel free to look at it however you like.

Well sure, but that was not really the point of my post. I was simply pointing out that damage is not the only metric to be concerned about.

Keep in mind that Defenders and Corruptors are more than damage dealers. Both are effective where debuffs are concerned. Those debuffs can make a big difference in AV fights, especially in TFs like Kahn. Reichsman can be a huge, long winded slog or not depending on what kind of debuffs your team has.

I agree with Bill here. I can only speak to the melee version as I have not tried the Sentinel version. The melee version needs a complete overhaul in my opinion. The nerf pendulum swung much too far on this set over the years. Far too reliant on clicks for survival and in my own personal experience far, far outclassed by other sets at the end game level. Turning IH back into a toggle would be a good start.

I would prefer Mako's Spirit Sharks with frickin laser beams attached the their heads.

Excellent advice which unfortunately most do not seem to follow or want to follow.

I did not say removing IOs would not be noticeable, just that it would not be as big a change as some might think. As an example, you could softcap defense before there were IOs on melee ATs and Cardiac pretty much eliminates END issues in the late game.

Removing IOs would not solve as many problems as people think.

You balance around common IOs, figuring most will get even level IOs at 50. That gives you ~ 10 -12% better results than a +3 SO.

Looks more like a loaded diaper walk to me.

This. My very first level 50 was an Empath. Now to be fair, Fort, AB and CM are still very good buffs to have at high levels, but Empathy was always outclassed by Kinetics later in the game. Power proliferation definitely exacerbated this. Empathy is more suited to have at the low to mid level game in my opinion, great for exemplaring down for lower level TFs/SFs.

Yes please. All powers should have minimal FX options IMHO.

Keep in mind, this is when pricing for IOs was absurdly high and out of reach for most players on the AH. The situation is much, much different here.

@Yomo Kimyata makes an excellent point with regard to force multipliers. Try an AV fight against something like Reichsman or a GM with and without debuffers on the team. You will notice quite a difference.

I agree with you for the most part however I know a few role players who have non-super powered Batman-ish themed characters where Fly/SJ/SS etc. would not make sense for them to have. These also have utility for Hami raids and base building.

How are they flying out of range in caves?

In a word, no. I would also add that I would never wish for the game to be neutered to the point where support ATs - or any AT for that matter - would be required for team content.

I get it and it does work with regard to comic theme. It just seems counter intuitive to me that the rest of the time in game you are picking powers to try your best to avoid defeat. I never took it for my Regen scrapper back in the day.

Personally, I am torn on this one. I can understand your reasoning here and do not necessarily disagree with you. However, I agree with @Bill Z Bubba in that I always build to avoid being defeated. In a way, it feels like "we know this set is really weak and you will die a lot, so here is a free rez" is sort of admitting the set stinks.

I think everyone can appreciate the sentiment however you can achieve what you are looking for already right here. Avoid the AE, do not use the P2W vendor, do not join DFB teams, run through the sewers or Hollows and street sweep and run respec trials.

Mjolnir is not a very good measure to go by, nor is "X can beat up the Hulk". As examples, Thor has defeated and also has been defeated by the Hulk on various occasions throughout comic history. Plot armor can be very strong. See Batman versus Hulk Who does what to whom in the comics all depends on what plot armor the writer wants to use.