Frosticus

I remember this same discussion back on live when I first debuted my ill/cold that was crazy fast by the standards of that time. -containment has a pretty minor impact on the overall performance of most offensive illusion controllers, but you are correct, it skews the results -same for many offensive controllers that don't really use their st immob as part of their chain Honestly, my sav/shield stalker can rarely hit something more than a couple times before I break its morale and it tries to flee. So dps "chains" are pretty uncommon for that character outside of teams that lockdown/taunt things in place. Of course in teams I crit way more often, so who's to say what actual dps is for such a build? The 20% res may as well be 0% res because it affects everyone the same. Back in the day they had a psi hole, so that made a difference. Yes pets get extra lvl shifts in incarnate content, so pylons are perhaps more representative of what they could do in that content. Like I said before, I take every pylon result with a grain of salt. They really don't translate that well into the rest of the game. However, they are fun and interesting. I don't think @Bopper's discovery invalidates MM's, they can do insane damage. It is just information

Just to follow up: @Bopperwas completely correct in this regard. I've attached a screen of a demonling attacking. They debuff res by 15%, but as a -2 that should only be 80% as effective if the purple patch was in play - ie. 12% -res So as he suspected, minions are getting 20% extra damage and luts are getting 10% extra damage by way of the purple patch not impacting them vs pylons. In the case of demons this is compounded by the fact that they debuff so much resistance, which impacts the damage of the other pets/damage sources. So for something like my demon/storm I can't even guess how much the dps would be inflated from the above and due to the storm powers benefiting from the inflated -res that the pets are putting down. Don't get me wrong, the combo still does ludicrous damage in most any situation, but a pylon is clearly less accurate for gauging it than it is for most other AT's. *this likely applies to GM battles too

Great point. I think the pylon cons the same to everyone/thing , so you are likely correct. They would still be the vacuum dps kings, but that does clip their wings a bit. I can test tomorrow if needed. I'll check the strength of demon minion/Luts -res debuffs. That would show if they are being affected by the purple patch.

What I do is I sweep the bottom 3-4 pylons consecutively. All my builds tend to ninja jump around so travel is always similar. That tends to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak. I can't think of a time where I've done that without losing a good number of pets. But that is for demon/storm so they are more or less on their own to survive and will die fast if they ignore my positioning commands. It's actually part of the reason I forgo some of the pets on trollers/doms. They can't be relied upon in many of the situations I find myself in. I'm not necessarily against a MM starting from no summons, but that generally isn't how a play session goes for me outside of initially logging in. That said, every MM should be comfortable recovering from a pet wipe, which could be fun to try starting from zero while underneath the pylon... Generally though I take every posted time with a grain of salt.

I've done it with bio and shield now. I really like shield, but every secondary is/can be great. I have a small savage guide for stalkers, might be of use if you end up taking that route.

savage with a hook/claw costume option? Not really a dagger at all, but lots of slashes with bleed damage.

The coralax, but he needs melee The mistress is decent from range I can't think of any troller pet I'd trade in for them personally if given the opportunity. Maybe phantasm cause it is pretty weak and likes to suicide.

Savage w/ proc'd savage leap. Enough fun that I've taken it to 50 twice. It has tremendous aoe output which is rare for stalkers and the great single target that we expect from the AT. But it is more than that. Savage leap moves you almost instantly. It ends up being one of the fastest play-styles I've encountered in this game.

Pretty much. Though, I personally did not use burnout, hybrid, or any other tricks on my demon/storm that was north of 900dps. I try not to use "gimmick" tactics for all of my characters. I strive for as repeatable and as close to "jump in and go" performance as possible. basically if it isnt a power I have perma or use in almost any situation, then it isn't part of a pylon run. At least imo.

The t8 in bio for any of the AT's isn't that amazing, but I'd take the damage aura version myself if it were possible. I dropped it very fast on my sav/bio. That build does too much aoe and dot for a sleep to be of much use. An 8ft low value -dam toggle wasn't a priority pick for that build. that said, ice/bio can get some synergy out of the stacking sleeps. Definitely worth giving it a try. Keep in mind it only pulses every 4 seconds so there is a chance your frozen aura will be breaking the sleep of genetic corruption just as easily as it may be stacking with it.

Disruption arrow is a nice big aoe and it gets out fast. Acid paints tough targets similar to envenom in poison. Oil slick is a great power. values could be a bit higher and I'm of the mindset that TA doesnt do other stuff well enough, but it can play pretty well on fast teams that are looking to play even faster.

Interesting. I've never noticed this on my sav/shield/mu. I ball lightning>sav leap>AS>rending flurry. So the dot from BL and leap are both still ticking. Rending flurry crits without issue if AS procs the hide. However, I have rending flurry qued up, so maybe that's why? I can definitively say that melee hybrid will break hide. The aura does not suppress. But as long as you play aggressively it will have little to no impact on getting crits if you attack quickly before it ticks. Chilling is more akin to Disrupt in /ea, AAO in /shield, Cloak in /dark, and Genetic Corruption in /bio. However, many of the stalker auras have a much slower tick rate, which may be less problematic. That said, I've had no issues with AAO on my shield and it as a 1 sec tick rate vs Chilling's 0.5 sec. Chilling is a good power though. Whether it fits ones playstyle, or synergizes well with some stalker primaries is a different matter.

Hide and the hide proc, should both suppress chilling embrace. They do for the bio aura and the shield aura. Can't speak to placate.

I rarely play 4/8 with this character unless teaming. While leveling I run at max +2 and post level shift at +3 (which is then +2 from a debuff perspective). As stated in the guide, I'm of the mindset that the purple patch hits debuffs too severely at +3 and higher. I rarely touch my insp tray though, so that impacts many of my choices. If you want to crank it higher you'll need defense just like every other build out there. But my intent wasn't to show what a high defense debuffer can do. We already know that answer. Rather I wanted to show that another path can produce great results while leaning more heavily on the attributes of poison and the synergy of damage debuffing combined with resistance. Mez is the biggest issue that poison has for two reasons. It interrupts your output of active mitigation (mez's and defender procs) and it toggle drops venomous gas which is a powerful layered defense/offense toggle. So you are well advised to pick up the power amplifier that grants mez protection until you sort out your own sources.

I think earth/poison is one of the strongest builds you can make that can take a pug from failing to thriving. as a bonus they will often have no idea "why" things became so easy.

My sav/shield stalker can do most things at 4/8, but I dont think it would do as well if the aoe damage wasnt as superb as it is. The combo only has to face bosses as everything else dies in the aoes almost instantly. I struggle if spawns are dispersed widely. shield is super sturdy but with no built in healing/regen/recovery when faced with enough foes they will wear you down. It isnt the best choice if you are going in to battles of attrition. Cycling melee hybrid with OWtS has allowed my /shield character to do many things that would otherwise require a heavy inspiration loadout.

The instant teleport is a great fit for poison. but I just cant get away from rune of protection is sorc.

Ya traps can feel pretty clunky in teams. I find the location binds to be pretty valuable to the set. Get out near the front and break each alpha with seeker drones while you dive in. Acid mortar isn't the best in teams that clear stuff quickly. I prefer to just get a proc'd poison trap down as it at least covers a large area. Seekers, PT and ffgen can offer a lot of mitigation and help the team roll even smoother. Traps has a lot of tools if the team starts to take on more than it can chew. But no, it doesn't excel in fast teams. Did you slot the kd proc into wormhole? if so why would anyone get mad at you unless you are pulling engaged mobs away from people. I usually try to grab a nearby spawn and plop it down on us while they engage the first one. 2 for the price of 1. Failing that just grabbing the current spawn and putting them right back where they are is great. If anything it just packs them tighter for the tiny melee aoes. I like my grav/traps, but it doesn't shine in super fast teams. Medium speed teams it is right at home though and slow teams it is one of the most potent things you can bring.

Dont underestimate shield. what sort of regrets? Shield is very easy to reach 32.5% def while leveling , which means a small insp from breezing thru most content. Once leveled it is easy to softcap to 45% even while exemplaring into the high 20s. you also have good/reliable ddr, +hp, solid resistances and tangible offensive tools. I actually think shield might be a tiny bit too good on stalkers as it aids removing adds so quickly and stalkers are so strong vs a small number of foes. It rarely gets overwhelmed.

Fast moving teams? Poison and kinetics and to a lesser extent, Storm and cold. Poison is the only one that is notably stronger as a defender though.

There are very compelling reasons to play poison/sonic. Unreal st debuffing being the main one both in -res and -damage. It is a competent aoe debuffer, with solid aoe control options. But I personally wouldnt pair poison with sonic if my intent was to spam howl. That isnt to say you cant make it work, just that it isnt a smooth experience.

This is nice. Stone/bio was something I tinkered with a bit, but eventually lost steam in the mid 40s due to interest in stalkers taking over. But I had a feeling it could be pretty good.

Honestly it has never bothered me on either of the two sav stalkers I've taken to 50. Once the attack is slotted up it stands head and shoulders above lightning rod in damage, speed and cycle time. As nice as it might be to leap and then hidden hemo, I also think that would be a little too good.

I strongly recommend the power amplifier that gives mez protection. At least until you solve your own mez protection issues via incarnates and/or powerpools. That aside, if poison isn't performing well for you then it is likely because you are taking the wrong approach. It plays far more like kinetics than it does any other debuff set. ie fast, in your face, and aggressive. The set definitely has some issues, but imo it surpasses just about everything in terms of performance in many scenarios. Just depends what kind of performance you seek. Take a look at the poison guide I wrote up it may be a value in gaining a different perspective. While it has some similarities to the other debuff sets like rad, or dark - it plays nothing like them.

I dunno, if you are talking builds that use burnout, then you may as well include lore pets in ones damage calculations. When I built my demon/storm I didn't do it including any temporary or low uptime powers. Everything in a dps build that I make is not situational and can be used in nearly every encounter. you'll be hard pressed to out dps a demon/storm for single target. Whether you can realize that damage in enough situations is debatable as it is a "house of cards" type of build. The synergy is purely oriented around stacking -res to incredible levels. Surpassing just about everything in the game in that area (aside from demon/cold) while also having the raw damage to make use of that ludicrous -res (pets and storm powers). The dps drops dramatically if any of your hellfire (debuffer) pets drop, or you get overwhelmed to the point that you can't contribute with your own -res attacks. But dramatically reducing dps doesn't mean the end of the world when you do so much to begin with. My petless demon/storm pulls over 300 dps vs a pylon sans gimmicks. If the question is raw damage output? demon/storm if you want to tack on other qualifiers like ease of use, or survivability, the answer will probably change quickly.