Unstoppable Recharge Cap - This is not a Rant

[Daleon]

Hi!

 

i heard through FB that I might be able to make a suggestion about game mechanics here.  I sincerely hope I’ve posted this suggestion in the right place.  

 

That being said:

 

Unstoppable has had a hard cap at around 195 seconds since issue 3.  Yes.  Issue 3..

 

This cap was implemented to be in-line with Enhancement Diversification.  It made sense to apply this cap because at the time (now my memory might be a bit foggy, but..) over 50% of the active characters were Invulnerability builds; both scrappers and tankers.  At the time, it made sense, because of its potency when combined with Invincibility, and the lack of actual game content, so that number stuck out.   Please know that this change was applied  in the same environment that also had a defense cap of 99%...  there were a lot of imbalances throughout the game.  

 

Invincibility has since been balanced, but no change to unstoppable.....

 

...  why? 

 

Many other tier 9 defensive sets (and I think all) BESIDES Unstoppable can be “perma” - or “looped”.  

 

Why is that?  

 

Because most people dont don’t know the game’s history and most people at the time were too angry and didn’t read Statesman’s basis or reasoning behind the patch.  Keep in mind, Statesman is an Invuln/SS tanker...  So, it did not behoove him to nerf himself.  His post explained the developers’ reasoning for issue 3 changes/balancing.   Which was an awful lot of patches, power sets, and expansions ago... 🤭

 

I’d also like to add that the issue 3 patch was the beginning of the end for the game.  Every time a players looses effectiveness of their build, and ultimately the character’s performance, the game experience is diminished.  Some even stopped playing entirely.  

 

With all of the “silliness” Homecoming has allowed us player characters to have, why is it that the biggest nerfing in gaming I’ve ever seen is still implemented?

 

In conclusion, City of Heroes/Villains has evolved beyond the need for this ultra-conservative power limit.  It was applied for a different game in a different time, when the game desperately needed balancing.  

 

CoX no has longer needs this for balance.  If anything, it would likely bring some players back to the game.  

 

Please be the bold innovators behind the first game to ever have “Invulnerable” in a power set, and remove this Unstoppable recharge limit.  

 

I promise you will be happily surprised you did.  

 

 

Respectfully,

Daleon

MA/Invuln Scrapper since Issue 1

Everlasting

[Myrmidon]

How about the Homecoming Devs remake all of the Tier 9 defensive powers into something that’s actually useful instead.

[Daleon]

36 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

How about the Homecoming Devs remake all of the Tier 9 defensive powers into something that’s actually useful instead.

That might take a while to fix, but I’ve always found tier 9 defensive powers to all be very useful.  ESPECIALLY unstoppable.  I just have to use inspirations while I wait the 40 seconds or so to recharge.  

 

Even when hen you have it “looped” with Burnout, you still have a crash!

 

plus, if I’m still dying from time to time in Unstoppable, I don’t think having it up constantly will make me a “push button” invulnerable character...

[Myrmidon]

No, Perma-Unstoppable also had Perma-Dull Pain and overtuned Invincibility to make it work, and even then, there was a bug that would cause the user to drop over dead sometimes when they both crashed at the same time.

 

 

[Daleon]

1 minute ago, Myrmidon said:

No, Perma-Unstoppable also had Perma-Dull Pain and overtuned Invincibility to make it work, and even then, there was a bug that would cause the user to drop over dead sometimes when they both crashed at the same time.

My Dull Pain has a recharge of 1:23 without any clickies up like Gaea’s or Unrelenting.  

 

Never saw that problem of people dropping.  Every time I saw a death while looping unstoppable, there was always damage right before I dropped.  I had capped resistances, but the hits were so hard and frequent.  

 

I still had to retooled everything too.  

 

Including “Unyielding Stance”... 😕

1 minute ago, Myrmidon said:

 

 

 

[nihilii]

All oldschool T9s can't actually be permaed and share a base recharge of 1000s - meaning 200s at the recharge cap, with a 180s duration, leaving a 20s gap (90% uptime).

Newer T9s can't be permaed either. You've got Willpower with a 120s duration and a FIXED recharge of 300s, so you will always have 3 minutes of downtime (40% uptime). Shield has a 120s duration and a fixed recharge of 360s too, so 4 minutes of downtime (33.33% uptime).

Radiation's T9 is affected by recharge buffs, but at 60s duration and 480s recharge, the best you'll get is 20s of downtime at the recharge gap. (75% uptime).

That's it for "real", defensive T9s - although it's worth noting none of the "different" T9s are permaable either.

Short version: Unstoppable is already the closest you can get to perma T9.

[Daleon]

17 minutes ago, nihilii said:

All oldschool T9s can't actually be permaed and share a base recharge of 1000s - meaning 200s at the recharge cap, with a 180s duration, leaving a 20s gap (90% uptime).

Newer T9s can't be permaed either. You've got Willpower with a 120s duration and a FIXED recharge of 300s, so you will always have 3 minutes of downtime (40% uptime). Shield has a 120s duration and a fixed recharge of 360s too, so 4 minutes of downtime (33.33% uptime).

Radiation's T9 is affected by recharge buffs, but at 60s duration and 480s recharge, the best you'll get is 20s of downtime at the recharge gap. (75% uptime).

That's it for "real", defensive T9s - although it's worth noting none of the "different" T9s are permaable either.

Short version: Unstoppable is already the closest you can get to perma T9.

Willpower?

[DSorrow]

10 minutes ago, nihilii said:

All oldschool T9s can't actually be permaed and share a base recharge of 1000s - meaning 200s at the recharge cap, with a 180s duration, leaving a 20s gap (90% uptime).

Newer T9s can't be permaed either. You've got Willpower with a 120s duration and a FIXED recharge of 300s, so you will always have 3 minutes of downtime (40% uptime). Shield has a 120s duration and a fixed recharge of 360s too, so 4 minutes of downtime (33.33% uptime).

Radiation's T9 is affected by recharge buffs, but at 60s duration and 480s recharge, the best you'll get is 20s of downtime at the recharge gap. (75% uptime).

That's it for "real", defensive T9s - although it's worth noting none of the "different" T9s are permaable either.

Short version: Unstoppable is already the closest you can get to perma T9.

 

Came to post this. Also perma Unstoppable would be extremely OP in the sense that it alone would cap all of your Resistance besides Psi making Invuln sit in a similar place as Stone Armor where everything besides the taunt aura, T9, Tough Hide and Dull Pain are rendered irrelevant.

 

I would like more useful T9s in general, but allowing them to become perma isn't the way to go about it.

[EyeLuvBooks]

Yeah...perma Unstoppable would be BEYOND broken. TBH I'd rather that is had a lesser effect and a smaller crash. I often don't use it because I know I'll crash halfway through the fight.

 

BTW, not everyone builds with recipe sets for max Rechage, perma-Hasten etc and I really do wish that we'd stop using such builds as the benchmark for everything.

[EmperorSteele]

"Beginning of the end" for a game that lasted 21 more issues, 2 expansions and 5 years, and was only shut down out of the blue for reasons which are still unknown by they public at large... but yeah, the Unstop nerf caused that. Sure.

[Haijinx]

9 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

No, Perma-Unstoppable also had Perma-Dull Pain and overtuned Invincibility to make it work, and even then, there was a bug that would cause the user to drop over dead sometimes when they both crashed at the same time.

 

 

This would actually be Lulz

[Haijinx]

I don't think ive used any T9 armor power since live.

 

 

 

[Hyperstrike]

Sorry, I haven't used Unstoppable since about 2009.

I just have this thing against suicide-by-God-modes.

And, with the current state of IOs, there's no real need for these crash powers.

[Megajoule]

I am so tired of everyone chasing Perma-EVERYTHING in this game.

"Let's take these things that were balanced by being up only SOME of the time, and make them ALL OF THE TIME."

[ZeeHero]

I'd rather T9 defensive powers be remade into something useful than making them perma-able. Nothing wrong with perma stuff but there is a point at which it is too much.

[Myrmidon]

3 hours ago, Haijinx said:

This would actually be Lulz

 

Imagine standing around chatting and all of a sudden an Invul just drops over dead. We laughed and laughed and laughed.

[Myrmidon]

2 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

Sorry, I haven't used Unstoppable since about 2009.

I just have this thing against suicide-by-God-modes.

And, with the current state of IOs, there's no real need for these crash powers.

I haven’t used it since I3, myself, and completely agree.

[Hyperstrike]

41 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

 

Imagine standing around chatting and all of a sudden an Invul just drops over dead. We laughed and laughed and laughed.

Like the biggest juicer in the gym.

And one time I was belting Lord Recluse in the face, and he had these flabby little tower things and. *THUD!*

Ohmygod!  What happened?

His Unstoppable just crashed...

[Groovy]

14 hours ago, nihilii said:

All oldschool T9s can't actually be permaed and share a base recharge of 1000s - meaning 200s at the recharge cap, with a 180s duration, leaving a 20s gap (90% uptime).

Newer T9s can't be permaed either. You've got Willpower with a 120s duration and a FIXED recharge of 300s, so you will always have 3 minutes of downtime (40% uptime). Shield has a 120s duration and a fixed recharge of 360s too, so 4 minutes of downtime (33.33% uptime).

Radiation's T9 is affected by recharge buffs, but at 60s duration and 480s recharge, the best you'll get is 20s of downtime at the recharge gap. (75% uptime).

That's it for "real", defensive T9s - although it's worth noting none of the "different" T9s are permaable either.

Short version: Unstoppable is already the closest you can get to perma T9.

Excuse me but my Ice/SS, Super Flu, has perma Hibernate and it's the bomb.  100% untouchable!  After the 30 sec maximum use of power, I pop out of Hibernate, Foot Stomp, and hop back into Hibernate.  Invincible!

 

Dig it!

[ZeeHero]

3 minutes ago, Groovy said:

Excuse me but my Ice/SS, Super Flu, has perma Hibernate and it's the bomb.  100% untouchable!  After the 30 sec maximum use of power, I pop out of Hibernate, Foot Stomp, and hop back into Hibernate.  Invincible!

 

Dig it!

Could call that hero... The Hibernator... ok dad joke over.

[EyeLuvBooks]

3 minutes ago, Groovy said:

Excuse me but my Ice/SS, Super Flu, has perma Hibernate and it's the bomb.  100% untouchable!  After the 30 sec maximum use of power, I pop out of Hibernate, Foot Stomp, and hop back into Hibernate.  Invincible!

 

Dig it!

I think you pretty much just outlined why many of us think that MORE powers that can be Perma'd is a bad idea...

[Hyperstrike]

2 hours ago, Groovy said:

Excuse me but my Ice/SS, Super Flu, has perma Hibernate and it's the bomb.  100% untouchable!  After the 30 sec maximum use of power, I pop out of Hibernate, Foot Stomp, and hop back into Hibernate.  Invincible!

 

Dig it!

Kinda like this....
 

 

[Haijinx]

realistically ALL the Teir 9's need some help. 

 

Granite Armor has too many drawbacks for the modern game.   

SOW is nearly pointless if you have tough and IO sets on your WP

Fire and Dark's only work when you die .. I mean cmon.  They should at least do SOMETHING when you are alive.   

 

 

 

 

[Daleon]

20 hours ago, DSorrow said:

 

Came to post this. Also perma Unstoppable would be extremely OP in the sense that it alone would cap all of your Resistance besides Psi making Invuln sit in a similar place as Stone Armor where everything besides the taunt aura, T9, Tough Hide and Dull Pain are rendered irrelevant.

 

I would like more useful T9s in general, but allowing them to become perma isn't the way to go about it.

Ok.  So it won’t be allowed to be perma.  Got it.  

 

...well, I thought I’d at least ask for it.  

 

..I still want it perma, tho..... 😉

[Lazarillo]

17 hours ago, Megajoule said:

"Let's take these things that were balanced by being up only SOME of the time, and make them ALL OF THE TIME."

My general take is that anything that's "balanced" by me running and getting a refill isn't really balanced anyway.

 

That said, I'm just as happy with them not doing anything to make most of the t9s in defense sets remotely desirable to my playstyle.  Just frees up a power pick.