One free travel power at character creation?

[PaxArcana]

10 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

One less travel power = Hasten or one more power with a defense effect (Combat Jumping, Hover, Maneuvers, or Stealth).  YMMV

Not what I was talking about.  One less power I can grok.  I think that's utterly not needed, mind.  But I can understand the why of it.

 

I was talking about one less POOL.  If you get hasten, SS is in the same pool.  If you get CJ, SJ is in the same pool.  If you get Hover, there's Flight, right in the same pool, again.

[Yoru-hime]

I hit this limit a month or so ago. I think it may have been a scrapper that was trying to forgo the Epic/Patron Pools altogether. He didn't need the Endurance help from Body Mastery and everything else broke concept somehow. I was a little thrown off by it since the pool limit comes into play so rarely.

[dmaker]

1 hour ago, Megajoule said:

Sounds to me that the OP's particular issue is "I can only have four power pools, total, ever, and taking just one power out of a pool uses up one of those."

Can we address that limit instead?

Yes. But it is usually a travel power decision that makes the 4 limit an issue. But yes, you have hit the nail on the head.  Would help to mitigate that if we got one "free" true travel power at creation.

 

Or, as I think you are suggesting, expand the number of ancillary pools. That is fine too, and that would appease the " we shouldn't get something for nothing" crowd.

 

 

Also, as has been pointed out, granting a true travel power (not bent over monkey run) at creation could have a positive impact on new players. Food for thought...

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by dmaker

[TheAdjustor]

5 hours ago, Replacement said:

Dear Lord I would move both of those options to power pools if I could. I understand not having this be a priority for limited dev time, but consider what you're actually implying:

 

"I am fine with needing to wait levels and expend a power selection on a heroic and thematic travel option, while giving everyone a theme-destroying ninja run for free, that is basically mandatory out of convenience."

 

Both of those prestige travels are the poster child for revenue needs (they were sold as add-ons) damaging game fiction.

Bingo, they were the start of paragon studios getting real serious with nickle and diming people. Got worse when they started selling power sets ala carte.

[biostem]

Just add a version of flight, SS, and teleport to the P2W vendor - unenhanceable and with a lower speed/range compared to their respective pool powers.  Give these the same "mutually exclusive, 1st one free" treatment that ninja run and beast run have...

Edited September 23, 2019 by biostem

[ShardWarrior]

6 minutes ago, biostem said:

Just add a version of flight, SS, and teleport to the P2W vendor - unenhanceable and with a lower speed/range compared to their respective pool powers.  Give these the same "mutually exclusive, 1st one free" treatment that ninja run and beast run have...

We already have this via Steam Jump, Ninja Run, Beast Run, Jump Pack etc.

[biostem]

5 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

We already have this via Steam Jump, Ninja Run, Beast Run, Jump Pack etc.

Not quite - steam jump and the jump pack are on timers and don't allow you to maintain a fixed position in the air.  Beast run and Ninja Run are more of a combination of swift, hurdle, sprint, and CJ, locked into very specific, (and sometimes theme-breaking), animations. 

[ShardWarrior]

You can get a jetpack in the P2W store too.

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

You can get a jetpack in the P2W store too.

But it's not a free pick like the others, and it again locks you into a very specific look.

[dmaker]

I buy max jetpack on any non flying toon I create.  If the toon theme prevents flying, a jetpack is enough justification for me to not break the theme and immersion. I only use them rarely and never have to top back up at the P2W vendor. I use SJ to get around and the jetpack only if I need to get to the top of something easily and quickly. It's super nice to have, though. I would not want it to be my primary travel power, though. If I am going to have fly, I want to be able to have the fastest version possible. Right now, sadly, that is three power choices and 3 enhancements. 

 

 

[ShardWarrior]

Just now, biostem said:

But it's not a free pick like the others, and it again locks you into a very specific look.

Yes, I know. 

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, dmaker said:

If I am going to have fly, I want to be able to have the fastest version possible. Right now, sadly, that is three power choices and 3 enhancements. 

Seems like a small price to pay if you want "the fastest version possible".  Of course, if you're willing to compromise, you can take flight and only slot it and swift with a flight IO or something to that effect.  Self-imposed "must have's" is not anyone else's problem but your own...

[Megajoule]

1 minute ago, biostem said:

Seems like a small price to pay if you want "the fastest version possible".  Of course, if you're willing to compromise, you can take flight and only slot it and swift with a flight IO or something to that effect.  Self-imposed "must have's" is not anyone else's problem but your own...

FYI and FWIW, I once thought the same, but no - apparently Flight is capped (for whatever max Flight speed is for your level) right out of the box.  Being able to slot it is a cruel joke.

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, Megajoule said:

FYI and FWIW, I once thought the same, but no - apparently Flight is capped (for whatever max Flight speed is for your level) right out of the box.  Being able to slot it is a cruel joke.

Then even less of a reason to go and waste slots on it, (unless you really really want it to be cheap to run, I suppose).

[dmaker]

If you compare flight to super jumping, it seems unfair. SJ has no additional power choice you must take if you wan to reach maximum jumpiness. Why should flight?

 

[dmaker]

9 minutes ago, biostem said:

Self-imposed "must have's" is not anyone else's problem but your own...

Why must you call it a "problem"? 

[ShardWarrior]

Just now, dmaker said:

If you compare flight to super jumping, it seems unfair. SJ has no additional power choice you must take if you wan to reach maximum jumpiness. Why should flight?

 

Because "balance" is the usual response.

[biostem]

1 minute ago, dmaker said:

Why must you call it a "problem"? 

Would you prefer "issue"?  Dilemma?  Limitation? Restriction?  Impediment? 

[Indystruck]

Eh, I don't feel like it's needed.

[TheAdjustor]

1 hour ago, Megajoule said:

FYI and FWIW, I once thought the same, but no - apparently Flight is capped (for whatever max Flight speed is for your level) right out of the box.  Being able to slot it is a cruel joke.

Not as much as you might think there's good build reasons to slot it.

[Haijinx]

3 hours ago, PaxArcana said:

I cannot imagine why someone would need more than four Pools (plus their Epic), anyway.  I mean ... what the heck are they DOING that they need all four pools, and can't spare one for a travel power?!?

I can see it

 

Lets say i want to make the classic flying brick

 

SS/INV brute

Combat jumping

Hasten

Fighting pool

Leadership pool (for guasians)

 

But wait ...

What about flight?

 

 

 

[PaxArcana]

23 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

I can see it

 

Lets say i want to make the classic flying brick

 

SS/INV brute

Combat jumping

Hasten

Fighting pool

Leadership pool (for guasians)

 

But wait ...

What about flight?

To make a "classic flying brick" you need neither Combat Jumping nor Hasten.  Arguably, you don't need the Fighting Pool either - SS should have all the melee-punch-em-up powers you need.

 

You could dump just one of those, and pick up Flight.

 

So I'm still not seeing it.

[MetaVileTerror]

I realize this might be a bit glib of me, but . . . how did this thread get 71 replies in 8 hours?

 . . . and there I go, contributing to that.  Oh well.

But, yeah.  I kind of see this as the natural progression in what was already happening anyway.  Step by step, Travel Powers were becoming more and more accessible, and still had no real impact on game balance, while they DEFINITELY had a positive impact on game experience and roleplay.

 

Plop in Limited Flight (halfway between Hover and true Fly), Limited Teleport (half the distance), Limited Super Speed (halfway between Ninja-Beast and true Super Speed), and Limited Super Jump (halfway between Ninja-Beast and true Super Jump).  First pick for free, limited to Level 14, since that's the first level when you don't unlock a new Primary or Secondary.
What's that going to hurt?

[Haijinx]

Just now, PaxArcana said:

To make a "classic flying brick" you need neither Combat Jumping nor Hasten.  Arguably, you don't need the Fighting Pool either - SS should have all the melee-punch-em-up powers you need.

 

You could dump just one of those, and pick up Flight.

 

So I'm still not seeing it.

Well lets call it an optimized classic flying brick. 

 

You aren't going to fight with hover on, thus combat jumping.   

 

Without the fighting pool you lose a lot of durability .  

 

Without hasten you loose the 5 second footstomps and the double rage.  

 

Without leadership you lose the guassians proc actually being useful since no build up.

 

Me, id just skip flight and grab SJ and get a jetpack, but i can see why some would want it.

 

 

 

 

[Steampunkette]

16 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Well lets call it an optimized classic flying brick. 

 

You aren't going to fight with hover on, thus combat jumping.   

 

Without the fighting pool you lose a lot of durability .  

 

Without hasten you loose the 5 second footstomps and the double rage.  

 

Without leadership you lose the guassians proc actually being useful since no build up.

 

Me, id just skip flight and grab SJ and get a jetpack, but i can see why some would want it.

 

Why aren't you going to fight with Hover on? There's no reason -not- to do so. So long as you travel along the ground you can still Foot Stomp.