Code of Conduct Update - September 25th 2019

[Murcielago]

Just now, ZacKing said:

What about offensive characters designed to look like and named stuff like "Bloody Tampon", "Afro Booty", "Engorged Member", "Ex Crackwhore" and such?  Those things are kosher?   Very surprised this kind of stuff is allowed on these servers.

That probably falls under breaking the code of conduct. I remember a character on Virtue named Pig Benis that got generic rather quickly.

[GM Tempest]

Just now, ZacKing said:

What about offensive characters designed to look like and named stuff like "Bloody Tampon", "Afro Booty", "Engorged Member", "Ex Crackwhore" and such?  Those things are kosher?   Very surprised this kind of stuff is allowed on these servers.

Those would be removed as well, as they violate our CoC.

[Sidious]

4 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

What about offensive characters designed to look like and named stuff like "Bloody Tampon", "Afro Booty", "Engorged Member", "Ex Crackwhore" and such?  Those things are kosher?   Very surprised this kind of stuff is allowed on these servers.

Good Taste is an uncommon superpower as common sense.

[ShardWarrior]

8 minutes ago, CR Tempest said:

Those would be removed as well, as they violate our CoC.

No disrespect meant at all, but when?  From my experience those kinds of characters are way, way more prevalent than cosplays.  I see at least a dozen of them daily.  Some I've literally seen over and over for months- they're always competing in costume contests in AP. 

 

I personally never report anyone but I find it very hard to imagine that someone hasn't.

 

Another question - is there a way for us to request our accounts to be reviewed?  Might be helpful for people who have questions on whether what they have is acceptable per the rules or not.

 

 

[Mansome]

Can we get some guidelines on what we can and can't do? I thought likenesses were okay you just can't name them that. If I made a Dr. Strange as a character, using the likeness but calling him Dr. Weirdo instead would this be okay?

[Skyhawke]

I've got a parody character of Dr Forrester from MST3k that I will gladly take a generic on and redo his look, name and origin.  He was a "for fun" creation and I have zero attachment.  All my other characters are all originals with looks, names and origin stories (sadly, I see very few people with origin stories...I love a good origin story) created by me.  Whether this is part of the NCSoft negotiations or the HC team is just getting some ducks in a row to continue to protect themselves, I'm good with it.  I know saying "like it or leave it" sets people ablaze, but I think in this case it really does ring true.  I also think "you can't please everyone" rings true as well. 

 

I feel for the people that invested a lot of time into their characters that are copyright infringements, but in the back of your minds...didn't you know?  Just a little?

 

Hopefully this will mean costume contests will be more interesting as well.  No more ripoff characters spamming their ripoff battle cries. 

[mrzapp]

18 minutes ago, CR Tempest said:

Those would be removed as well, as they violate our CoC.

How can you get a permit to do a damned illegal thing? Look, price you name, money I got.

 

HC: Place *you* name, money *I* name, otherwise bargain, no. 

[ShardWarrior]

26 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Right now no, but we are building something specifically for this. In the meantime we keep records in a private (and searchable) Discord server.

Excellent idea.

[ZacKing]

23 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

That probably falls under breaking the code of conduct. I remember a character on Virtue named Pig Benis that got generic rather quickly.

That doesn't seem to be the case from what I see.  game is polluted with these.  Watch the help and LFG chat for a while.  Toon names there are really gross.

[ShardWarrior]

8 minutes ago, mrzapp said:

How can you get a permit to do a damned illegal thing? Look, price you name, money I got.

 

HC: Place *you* name, money *I* name, otherwise bargain, no. 

YES, GENESIS!  How can you be deaf with ears like that?

 

Love that movie! 😀

[Seigmoraig]

31 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

What about offensive characters designed to look like and named stuff like "Bloody Tampon", "Afro Booty", "Engorged Member", "Ex Crackwhore" and such?  Those things are kosher?   Very surprised this kind of stuff is allowed on these servers.

Agreed, the Trump name is extremely offensive and should not be allowed here

[ShardWarrior]

4 minutes ago, Seigmoraig said:

Agreed, the Trump name is extremely offensive and should not be allowed here

Please leave politics off the forums.

[PaxArcana]

10 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Safe to assume they will err on the side of caution and are going to genericize any toon that gets reported to them.

I sincerely doubt that they will just say "it got reported, generic it" without even looking, and googling the name.

 

Even Cryptic, which was pretty severe about such things, has let a few of my own homage characters slide.  Like, in Champions Online, my Invader Zim homage, "Conqueror Zuub".

 

Fun trick with Cryptic, at least back when CO had just launched: if you SELF-reported, they seemed more inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt for any cases that "could go either way".  That might be a good policy for HC to adopt, too.

[PaxArcana]

4 hours ago, EmmySky said:

To play devils advocate for a moment, it could also be that with the recent publicity, one of the many previously mentioned big guns has actually issued a c&d.

This is more possible than most people are giving credit for.

 

I cannot be more specific, especially by naming the person who did this (without renewing a hefty infraction and multiday ban, possibly making it permanent), but ... weeks ago, when one of the other copyright-related threads had just been closed down .... one of the people on the side of allowing copycharacters sent me a PM claiming to have sent notices to Disney, DC, and more about infringeing characters.

 

The timing of this is just about right for their lawyers to have figured out how to check up on that, and seen a few clear infringements themselves, as justification for a C&D letter to the HC development team.

 

I sincerely hope that's not the case; that this really is just one more step toward legitimacy, progress in the negotiations with NCSoft.  But ... maybe ... 😢 

[Arawanach]

Oh, that sounds fun. Homecoming had competions where we were making characters like that. And now we have to change them. Do we get to pick new powers too, then?

 

I really hope that doesn't mean every OC character with nathionality colors would need costume change because of this purpose. Like American heroes with suits inspired by their nathionality because it is too similar to Captain America's suit.

 

Or characters that coincidencially bears resemblance to existing characters.

 

I made a character that looks like Link from the legend of Zelda. Even weapon look like that. So what would I need to do? Make the costume pink? Could probably keep shield as it is since there was no actual triforce symbol to put on it. Do I need to change the color handle of the sword to avoid it looking like Master Sword too?

Edited September 25, 2019 by Arawanach

[jubakumbi]

Interesting.

I got called the Amazing Speculator here (and I made the character) so here are my speculations...

 

So either HC is buying the property as a legal entity and therfore has to take on all legal rulings of the IP, or NCSoft is licensing the property to HC and therefore has to continue to enforce all legal rulings.  Pretty standard company/asset transfer business.

 

I guess it's probably good news for the overall game, neutral news for those that don't want NCSoft involved since it confirms nothing,

[trimmed out personal attacks -- GM Capocollo] - Fine.

 

IMO, this annoucement, by policy, tells players to be mean to other players and some players love that validation. (is that neutral enough for ya GMs?)

 

The pro in this is that it gives the HC team more legitimacy in the business world, as they show they have a policy, the only real legal issue.

Having the policy and showing they enforce the policy is all they have to do for the IP holders, it has nothing to do with 'getting them all'.

 

I suppose from the tin foil hat PoV, HC could have done this to make everyone think progress with NCSoft is occuring, when nothing has changed.

Thay have, after all, not had any recent news to keep relevent, so this trickle of events could easily be construed into empty hype attempts as well.

 

So, I guess, just more MMO news that stirs up controversy without really doing anything helpful...status quo.

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by jubakumbi

[PaxArcana]

1 hour ago, Sidious said:

3) at what point do you consider a homage costume to cross the border into violation?

I'm not a dev or a GM, so I can't answer for them.

 

But if I WERE, my standard for that call would be:

• Powers
• Costume
• Story

... if more than one is "too close for comfort" (which, yes, would be an entirely subjective and nonscientific judgement), then the whole character is problematic and must be changed.

Note, Name alone would be it's own category.  There'd be no room for "Bat-Man" / "BattMann" / "B4tm4n" / "xxBATMANxx" / etc.  Clean sweep with the Mighty Broom of Genericness, for that.

[alasminor]

I have a few questions if you don't mind. I'm not exactly a superhero fan but every now & then I am inspired by them. I never played this game while I was live, but what is the obvious line here? I thought these are public domains & under fair use since we are not paying to actively play this game. And how do you go about & enforce this new rule? Automatic sweep or a chance meet? I have a few speedsters (speedstresses?) who wears red. Are you going to reset their uniform simply because they wear red? I came from DCUO, I saw a lot of players dressing up as Marvel characters as well. I think that game should be a bigger pot of dispute since it is actively pushing you to pay subscription.

Is this a sign that a P2P model is coming to Homecoming?

[Abraxus]

I'd love to think this was a check-box item that had to be completed before being able to move to the final stages of the deal making process.  But, the truth is, we won't know for sure until we can look back on it, and say "Yup!  That was the final piece right before it all fell into place!".  Until that point, there's just no knowing. 🙂

[Arawanach]

I made a character in DCUO and played trough the entire storyline with Batman as mentor. Since it was my main character and I liked the powerset I remade my character in City of Heroes. Note that this character is from Gotham and was mentored by Batman, and is an offical member of the Justice League. That is trough me playing trough the game with that character. Story is then that she was transfered from Gotham City to Paragon City to help out there. However my character is not based on an existing DC character, but is my own DC character from the online game DC made. It would be like if you remake and everquest character here. That is allowed, so remaking your own character and using IG storyline you played trough from a different game should be allowed.

 

Nothing preventing you from remaking your own characters, right?

[Bardweiser]

14 hours ago, Sylar said:

If NCSoft aren't even concerned at this point, why would Marvel or DC or any other franchise give a hoot, especially when this isn't even a legal server?

Marvel was concerned at first, they even brought a lawsuit against NCSoft.  The suit was dropped once it was revealed that the Marvel-looking and Marvel-named characters in CoH they were using as examples were created by Marvel staff.  So if they dropped it then and it's going on strong and heavy in a game like DCUO then why is Homecoming "skeered"?

 

In all likelihood such a case against Homecoming (or even DCUO/Daybreak/Warner Bros for that matter) would probably end up with a ruling that the company has no responsibility for policing IP issues since they are not making money specifically off of the ability to create/name a Marvel-like character.  Ruling otherwise opens the door to a complete clampdown on things from video clips to just having your own drawing of Deadpool as your forum avatar. 

 

But wait... that only reinforces the "why are they scared" question, right?  Nope.  Because all of that is done against the backdrop that such a lawsuit costs a lot of money just to defend against.  Disney/Marvel could easily bring the lawsuit and quickly leave a small group like the Homecoming crew drowning in legal fees before even going before a judge whereas a Daybreak (and their parent company) has their own legal team and would probably have access to that of Warner Bros as well so they could afford to play that game until an actual ruling came out.

[Widower]

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

No disrespect meant at all, but when?  From my experience those kinds of characters are way, way more prevalent than cosplays.  I see at least a dozen of them daily.  Some I've literally seen over and over for months- they're always competing in costume contests in AP. 

 

I personally never report anyone but I find it very hard to imagine that someone hasn't.

No, they haven't. If you don't report offensive names, we don't know about them; we're not psychic and there are 950k characters.

 

1 hour ago, Seigmoraig said:

Agreed, the Trump name is extremely offensive and should not be allowed here

If you all turn your Codes of Conduct to rule #5, you will see that this is not permitted.

 

6 minutes ago, alasminor said:

Is this a sign that a P2P model is coming to Homecoming?

Absolutely not.

[ZacKing]

5 minutes ago, alasminor said:

I have a few questions if you don't mind. I'm not exactly a superhero fan but every now & then I am inspired by them. I never played this game while I was live, but what is the obvious line here? I thought these are public domains & under fair use since we are not paying to actively play this game. And how do you go about & enforce this new rule? Automatic sweep or a chance meet? I have a few speedsters (speedstresses?) who wears red. Are you going to reset their uniform simply because they wear red? I came from DCUO, I saw a lot of players dressing up as Marvel characters as well. I think that game should be a bigger pot of dispute since it is actively pushing you to pay subscription.

Is this a sign that a P2P model is coming to Homecoming?

Probably got tired of listening to whiners bitch about it.   Policies don't work if they aren't enforced.   Seems to me the code of conduct isn't being enforced at all given the pollution of offensive names and characters in the game.  I bet everyone has a policy.  99.99% of never enforce it.  Go on Amazon and search for spiderman or mickey mouse tshirts.  No way all those sellers have a license or permission.

 

[PaxArcana]

3 minutes ago, alasminor said:

I thought these are public domains & under fair use since we are not paying to actively play this game.

You have misunderstood two important facets of Coopyright (and Trademark) Law.

 

Public Domain means, the property being copied is not owned by anyone - it is owned by the public at large, collectively, and anyone can use it as they see fit.

 

Fair Use is a set of very narrow, very specific cases that allow a copyrighted work to be used, often just small parts of it.  "Not paying" is never the basis for Fair Use.  If you violate someone's copyright, and they take you to court, saying "but your honor, there was no money involved" will.  not.  matter.  Indeed, claiming Fair Use is dangerous, even when you think you are within it's narrow scope .... because to do so, you must first admit that you did make the cop(-y/-ies) in the first place, and if the court holds that you did not qualify for Fair Use ... you lose, right there, on the spot.

7 minutes ago, alasminor said:

And how do you go about & enforce this new rule?

The same as Cryptic and NCSoft did before the shutdown:

 

Player reports.

 

The community must self-police.  When an infringement is reported, GMs will look at the character (it doesn't have to be online for that), and decide if they think it's too close to an established IP.  If it is, it gets "Generic'ed" - turning into a featureless, I think white, character with a name like "GenericHero#1515126".  The character is then issued a free costume change token, and a rename token; the player is notified that their character was found in violation of the copyright and trademark policy, and they should not attempt to recreate the offending name/costume (or harsher penalties could happen - up to and including banning / deletion of the account).

10 minutes ago, alasminor said:

I have a few speedsters (speedstresses?) who wears red. Are you going to reset their uniform simply because they wear red?

Just being fast and wearing red isn't enough.  Being fast, wearing red-and-yellow, with a lightning-bolt motif could.  Especially if your name is some variation on the Flash, or if you use any of the secret identities of the various Flash characters (e.g. Wally West, Barry Allen, etc) in your bio.

 

11 minutes ago, alasminor said:

Is this a sign that a P2P model is coming to Homecoming?

No.  It's a sign that the HC devs don't want to hit us up for donations to cover, say, fifty thousand dollars of lawyers' fees.

[ShardWarrior]

5 minutes ago, GM Widower said:

No, they haven't. If you don't report offensive names, we don't know about them; we're not psychic and there are 950k characters.

LOL!  I didn't mean anyone was psychic.  😛  I'm fairly certain I've seen GMs in AP when there were CCs that had a few of these questionable characters participating.  Maybe they didn't see them.  I just find it hard to imagine that they were never reported by at least one person in the months they've been tooling around the game.  Thanks for the reply though 🙂

Edited September 25, 2019 by ShardWarrior