Mad geniuses of the forum: Necromancy secondary insights?

[ParaBruce]

The ongoing flood of tinkering and experimentation in recent months has been amazing to watch, and to make use of when it coalesces into builds I can take and tinker with. I can't recall when any MMO I ever played has had such a real churning of ideas. So I'm curious: how much of it bears on what should be my decision-making about a necromancy secondary and slotting?

 

When last I thought I understood it :), /dark remained a super-solid choice, given the piling up of -tohit, the really good heal, and all. I've been having a ton of fun with @Warlawk's bots/time, and it looks like necro/time would also be very solid. But what else? Did it turn out, while I wasn't looking, that /sonic or /trick arrow is the new necro hotness? Is necro/nature a thing thanks to @SmalltalkJava? And so forth and so on. What's recent and cool that necro could use?

 

PS. In my head, the moment I started writing the title, I heard Jon Anderson singing on Yes' song Starship Troops. "Shining flying purple wolfhound, show me where you are." If any of you would like to be a shining flying purple wolfhound, even just notionally, Jon and I say you should go for it.

 

[Redlynne]

Trick question.

Are you just trying to min/max the game mechanics, or do you just no know what concept you want to use for your own Necromancer?

[ParaBruce]

I don't have a very solid concept when it comes to the secondary right now; what I'm thinking of could easily adapt to a bunch of them. So I'm after something that'll be fun and at least moderately effective.

 

[SmalltalkJava]

2 hours ago, ParaBruce said:

? Is necro/nature a thing

Necro/Nature would work as a theme for a Necromancy secondary,  might as well bring your own graveyard with you. 🙂   Black and gray colored plants, curious enough the color white actually makes the leaves and plants a grayish color!  

 

Dark , Time , Nature are all good concepts if you want a set with a heal

 

time.  See @Warlawks Build    Nothing but time after death 

 

Cold is super nice also. But I prefer AOE heal sets.  The afterlife is a cold dark place 

 

thermal is nice. The burning heat of hell or recolored for dark/blood/cold look But no real mm defense/res if IIRC

 

Storm would be an aggressive set.  Look at what Maxzero did with his thugs storm. 🙂.  The afterlife is turbulent 

Edited September 29, 2019 by SmalltalkJava

[Warlawk]

Necro is a fairly versatile primary. It's got soul extraction to mule, extra control from the lich and the -tohit will give a nice little boost without specifically requiring any secondary to leverage it. There is also some built in healing so that leaves you less feeling like you're locked into a secondary with healing. EDIT: I am in agreement with STJ above that an AOE heal feels like a requirement to me. I get nervous not having one in a MM build.

 

Cold, Dark, Nature, Rad, Thermal, Time and Traps should all do pretty well with it.

 

You're already familiar with my thoughts on /time, so we'll just skip over that. Of those I would probably put Dark and Nature at the top of the list. The others will likely all perform well, but when things start to go bad they're going to be very bad very fast and very hard to recover from short of just completely disengaging and starting over fresh (hah, fresh zombies!).

Edited September 29, 2019 by Warlawk

[Shoulung]

I’ve got a thugs/dark that felt a little squishy leveling up to 50 on regular IOs, but plays much better with the pet res/def auras and set bonuses, even when exemplared down. The only time it’s frustrating for me is when trying to solo TFs, as the AVs run away, and doing level 50 group incarnate as they die a lot, but I think every MM suffers from that problem.

[ParaBruce]

Thanks, everyone! It sounds like I didn't miss any particularly glorious insight from the proc monster seekers or anything like that.

 

@SmalltalkJava, @Warlawk, I agree with you about the importance of a good AOE heal for MMs. I don't feel quite set without one.

 

[Riverdusk]

2 hours ago, Shoulung said:

I’ve got a thugs/dark that felt a little squishy leveling up to 50 on regular IOs, but plays much better with the pet res/def auras and set bonuses, even when exemplared down. The only time it’s frustrating for me is when trying to solo TFs, as the AVs run away, and doing level 50 group incarnate as they die a lot, but I think every MM suffers from that problem.

Some of the epics have immobilizes, and I'm very much looking forward to web envelope for that reason.  Only helps down to level 30 (when exemp) at best, but still available for a big chunk of the game at least.

 

Also, I'd swear I've noticed things tend to run more than usual when the thug arsonist sets them on fire.  Unless that is my imagination, thugs have a particular issue with runners.

[ParaBruce]

@Riverdusk, I've noticed the same with the assault bot's fire patches, so it may be a change to fire mechanics, or pet fire mechanics, in general.

 

[SmalltalkJava]

Yes. Mobs want to run from the burn patches.   

[ParaBruce]

They always did, if memory serves, they just seem readier to beat feet expediently now, and to run farther. I've had some enemy pursuits that felt like they should have triggered Yakety Sax playing, lately.

 

This is what slotting procs is for, of course.

 

[Force Redux]

I didn't take Web Envelope on my Thugs/Time/Mace. The slows and KD procs from the pets (SA in Bruiser and OF in T1s) seem to keep most things in arsonist's burn patch.

 

For my Necro/Dark I went with Heat Mastery for Bonfire. It keeps things also in one place for easy destruction and is up all the time. Plus SA KD proc in zombies and OF KD in Lich plus native KU/KD in Knights assures the same soft controls as my Thugs. Things flopping all over the place. Doesn't help with AVs, but with everything else it's golden.

 

For Necro, I really like Dark. It's active mitigation, because you have to use your Darkest Night, Fearsome State, Fluffy, etc to control and debuff for protection rather than buffing Defense through the roof. However it's exciting, active playstyle that's far more effective than it appears on paper. 

 

Someone else did the napkin math on another thread this week, and Necro/Dark is the only power combo that has enough-ToHit debuffs to floor even AVs when stacked. 

 

This effective combination made possible by Dark Fluffy and Lich. 

 

All that said, I think necro time is a very solid contender. Time offers a bit more mobility, some solid carry-around-with-you-buffs and some soft controls. If I didn't love my necro dark so much I probably would go with necro time.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Force Redux

[ParaBruce]

I don't think I've ever actually taken Bonfire. How do you recommend slotting it?

 

[Force Redux]

I am still playing around with it, but currently SA knock-down proc and two recharge. The damage is icing on the cake. It's primarily awesome for control/mitigation. Large area too. I'll probably put some damage procs in it after some research.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Force Redux

[SmalltalkJava]

quick question.  do the Necro pets move into melee range like the beast pets do?  does the lich stay at range?

[Force Redux]

In my experience, the Necro pets behave well. Zombies and Knights start at range, then move into melee. Lich stays at range. He'll often be behind you as you position near melee to heal and debuff (on my Dark). 

 

I've heard that the Knights can get range locked into Gloom or whatever, and needed a Go-to prompt, but I've never experienced it.

 

Having played Bots, Necro, Mercs, and Thugs extensively, my opinion is that Necro pets are the best behaved and predictable of those sets.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Force Redux

[Talionis]

How does Traps work with Necromancy?   Seems like Soul Extraction and Detonator May have synergy.  Sacrifice a henchman to be a bomb.  Use that corpse for Soul Extraction.  Is this worth building around if you can find a theme that works?

[WumpusRat]

8 hours ago, SmalltalkJava said:

quick question.  do the Necro pets move into melee range like the beast pets do?  does the lich stay at range?

The zombies and grave knights are primarily melee pets, so they'll attempt to stick to melee. Sometimes the grave knights will glitch out and just spam ranged attacks though, which is annoying, because it severely reduces their dps.

 

The lich is a purely ranged combatant, who will use dark blast, torrent, life drain (they all have that with full upgrades), fearsome stare, and petrifying gaze. He's primarily a debuffer/cc'er rather than a damage dealer, though is damage isn't completely useless. 

 

I have a necro/nature that I was playing around with on pineapple, and it works pretty well. You have to stay mobile and jump around using your cone heal quite a bit, but between that, the aoe healing toggle, life drains from the pets and the nature hold-aura, the pets become incredibly durable. I was running against +2/8 council and got a double pull, and managed to get through it with only losing 2 zombies.

[Force Redux]

Definitely put a Clouded Senses damage proc in Lich (and Dark Fluffy if you go DM). It affects virtually all their powers and will up their damage.

[Force Redux]

I also like to put an overwhelming Force knockdown proc in the zombies. It goes off frequently and they can really keep things knock down the rear ends

[Mercurias]

My own vote is for Necro/Storm. It’s an extremely active and aggressive play style, which I like, and you’ll end up with a larger number of pets after the addition of your /Storm Tornadoes and Lightning Storms.

 

You can also herd enemies towards or away from your pets with Hurricane with ease after it’s been slotted with a KB/KD proc. The -ToHot from doing so, as well as the time enemies spend on the floor trying to stand up again, will also be great for survival. 

 

Necro/Dark has the advantage of a fantastic Heal and more defense while providing solid debuffs. Black Hole is still a decent emergency power, too. That would be my second choice.

 

if you want to play a straight up tank, Necro/Thermal will crank the resistance of your pets and give you some nice buff/debuff utility.

 

I’ve seen some cool stuff done with Necro/Nature, and a lot off what is good about Thermal applies. I would put them around the same level, but then again my knowledge how Nature plays is kinda lacking.

[biostem]

I've been leveling up a necro/trick arrow MM, but then people have said that I'm just punishing myself... *shrugs*

[ParaBruce]

Thanks, everyone! Continuing to collate advice on all fronts. I really appreciate y'all.

 

@biostem, how far have you gotten, and how's it gone? Someday I'll do Something/Trick Arrow.

 

[biostem]

8 minutes ago, ParaBruce said:

@biostem, how far have you gotten, and how's it gone? Someday I'll do Something/Trick Arrow.

She's currently level 38.  It's not a bad set, but there are definitely some stinkers in there.  Acid arrow is defintiely my mainstay power.  Ice arrow, once fully slotted, is quite useful.  I haven't been able to fully slot up EMP arrow, but I imagine it'll be pretty good once I do.  Flash arrow is also quite useful;  It allows my zombies and grave knights to get really close without the enemy noticing.  I have to use my origin power (taser) to ignite oil slick arrow, but sometimes I prefer to leave it unignited to enemies just keep slipping on it.  Disruption arrow stacks nicely with acid arrow for even more -res.  I'm using entangling arrow as a mule for a few set IOs, (the set that also causes immobilizes to have a chance to deal lethal damage, and it also gives all my powers +9% acc).  I'm debating slotting flash arrow for more -tohit, but it seems like a rather low amount that it applies - though the set does kind of lack ways to keep your pets alive, (though that is somewhat mitigated as your pets get drain life with the level 32 upgrade)...

Edited October 1, 2019 by biostem

[ParaBruce]

Cool, thank you. 😄