My I/O Experience

[Abraxus]

I will first admit that, while I always knew IO/Set Bonus' were the only way to take a character to absolute maximum potential.  The combination of set bonuses just can't be duplicated using SOs, or Crafted I/O enhancements.  Friends that I played with just couldn't understand how I could play as long as I have, and never gone down this path to ultimate power.

 

Well, the answer was actually quite simple.  While I freely admitted that this was the superior way to out fit any character, it requires a LOT more thought, time, and in-game expenditure than the more traditional methods.  It really came down to how much of my precious play time did I want to spend gathering resources, formulating a build, farming when I would run low, and hours in the Auction House getting what I needed, as opposed to actually playing?  Was the experience of a fully realized character SO much better from the perspective of the play experience that it justifies all of that? 

Now, after finally taking the deep plunge into that pool, I find the answers not to be as easy as "yes", or "no".  It's not so clear-cut a choice, and like so many things in this game (or any other, for that matter), it is a subjective matter from a perceived play experience perspective.  Statistically, there is no question.  But, cases could be made for being less statistically superior, and still be effective enough to have fun.  I now have an electric blaster that is fully outfitted, and I am noticing a big difference in damage, recharge, and defense.  But, when I think about the hours involved in creating this damage monster, I'm still not convinced I would do this for every character I have.

What do you all think?

Edited October 15, 2019 by Abraxus

[Schizophobia]

im not 100% sure on what you're asking so im sorry if this is off base or unhelpful:

 

its really kind of fine as it is. this game's never been particularly hard, and so my impulse is to say just don't worry about it.

 

i can tell you that man do i love io's. all the things you mentioned, the time, the planning, the effort, the payoff? my favorite part of the game. but i think there's something else to consider i guess.

 

yeah, there's certainly ways to make the baddest, beefiest, craziest dumbass character you can make, so over the top you're de facto immortal and blow every archvillain away in one hit* because why the hell not (*i do not believe you can actually do this). do you know what else though? i built a character once for capped run speed once. with sprint. cause i could. cause that's hilarious to me. here comes sprint woman, get the hell out of my way, im the sprint woman.

 

maybe tomorrow i'll make a defender with one attack who only uses brawl with capped resistances. why? because i want that sweet, sweet infinity +1 damage per endurance brawl from vigilance when my team is half dead.

 

and that's all okay. not every character has to be io'd to the gills, you don't need to feel compelled to do that if you don't want. play how you want, friend, its the beauty of this totally, hilariously fucked up game

 

all i got 🙂

[Blastit]

Going whole hog on optimising a character isn't really worth it if you don't play that character a lot. I bet a lot of people go for the easy IOs like the global recharge ones and various recovery options as a first step.

 

Having a farming character greatly affects how you approach building a character, too.

[molten_dragon]

15 minutes ago, Abraxus said:

I will first admit that, while I always knew IO/Set Bonus' were the only way to take a character to absolute maximum potential.  The combination of set bonuses just can't be duplicated using SOs, or Crafted I/O enhancements.  Friends that I played with just couldn't understand how I could play as long as I have, and never gone down this path to ultimate power.

 

Well, the answer was actually quite simple.  While I freely admitted that this was the superior way to out fit any character, it requires a LOT more thought, time, and in-game expenditure than the more traditional methods.  It really came down to how much of my precious play time did I want to spend gathering resources, formulating a build, farming when I would run low, and hours in the Auction House getting what I needed, as opposed to actually playing?  Was the experience of a fully realized character SO much better from the perspective of the play experience that it justifies all of that? 

Now, after finally taking the deep plunge into that pool, I find the answers not to be as easy as "yes", or "no".  It's not so clear-cut a choice, and like so many things in this game (or any other, for that matter), it is a subjective matter from a perceived play experience perspective.  Statistically, there is no question.  But, cases could be made for being less statistically superior, and still be effective enough to have fun.  I now have an electric blaster that is fully outfitted, and I am noticing a big difference in damage, recharge, and defense.  But, when I think about the hours involved in creating this damage monster, I'm still not convinced I would do this for every character I have.

What do you all think?

I've always found making money in the auction house to be trivial, so it's always been pretty easy for me to outfit a character with IOs.  It does take some planning time though.

 

I don't go whole-hog on every character I have.  I guess I sort of have three tiers of characters depending on how much I like them, and if I have a specific purpose in mind with an IO build.

 

Tier 3:  Generic level 50 IOs plus low-hanging fruit.  That generally means a Numina's, a Miracle, and a Performance shifter (because I loathe having END problems), and possibly the global +resist and/or +def IOs.

 

Tier 2:  Mid-level build.  This generally means IO sets for the most part, but generally lower cost sets.  This is the way I tend to go with characters I enjoy playing at 50 but don't have a specific goal in mind for.

 

Tier 1:  The champagne room baby.  These guys get the best of everything.  Hami-Os, multiple purple sets, superior Winter-O and ATO sets, you name it.  Money is no object.  These builds always have a specific goal in mind.

[Abraxus]

I don't disagree with either of you.  I totally get it!  It's awesome!  I know I can play how I want to, but I guess I feel a little guilty about not wanting to spend the extra time to correlate all of this information into a workable build, then spending the time, and resources to make it happen; when a L50 character with crafted I/Os (not the set bonus type, just the simple crafted type) could get me around 80% there in most cases without all of that, and still be an effective member of a team.

 

For me, it really comes down to how I want to spend what little time I have to play.  I love getting the most bang for the buck, and the two weeks it took me to assemble everything I needed for this one build just kind of put me off doing this again any time soon.  Now, admittedly, I'm probably not the most efficient at the process, and it might get easier with each iteration.  Guess I'd have to put that to the test in order to really know.

[Abraxus]

2 minutes ago, molten_dragon said:

I've always found making money in the auction house to be trivial, so it's always been pretty easy for me to outfit a character with IOs.  It does take some planning time though.

 

I don't go whole-hog on every character I have.  I guess I sort of have three tiers of characters depending on how much I like them, and if I have a specific purpose in mind with an IO build.

 

Tier 3:  Generic level 50 IOs plus low-hanging fruit.  That generally means a Numina's, a Miracle, and a Performance shifter (because I loathe having END problems), and possibly the global +resist and/or +def IOs.

 

Tier 2:  Mid-level build.  This generally means IO sets for the most part, but generally lower cost sets.  This is the way I tend to go with characters I enjoy playing at 50 but don't have a specific goal in mind for.

 

Tier 1:  The champagne room baby.  These guys get the best of everything.  Hami-Os, multiple purple sets, superior Winter-O and ATO sets, you name it.  Money is no object.  These builds always have a specific goal in mind.

Perhaps that is a strategy I can embrace, as it sounds pretty similar to how I feel.  Very helpful!  Thanks!

[drbuzzard]

I only bother to 'finish up' characters with full IO work if I see a lot of potential in the build. I have plenty of characters who have made it to 50, and will likely linger there as there's not enough return for the investment of optimization.

[Abraxus]

8 minutes ago, drbuzzard said:

I only bother to 'finish up' characters with full IO work if I see a lot of potential in the build. I have plenty of characters who have made it to 50, and will likely linger there as there's not enough return for the investment of optimization.

Cool!  Nice to know I am not alone in this thinking.  I think what it will come down to for me is perhaps taking the deep dive on those characters that I have absolutely loved playing to L50, and just have to see what more they are capable of, as opposed to those that just felt every bit of the grind to get there.

[Shred Monkey]

 

 

For some people, tweaking a build to maximum potential *IS* the game.  For others, it is costumes or role play.  Some hunt badges and others lead trials and raids.  It's ok to play the way you want.  Just don't be jealous if you're not able to do things that you're friends can do.  But it sounds like you're happy, so all is well.

[Schizophobia]

9 minutes ago, Abraxus said:

I guess I feel a little guilty about not wanting to spend the extra time to correlate all of this information into a workable build

this makes me sad 😞

i don't want to invalidate how you feel, so i'll just say that that's gotta be a crummy feeling, im sorry.

 

guess im curious though, i usually associate guilt with disappointing someone else. is that what you mean? if so, who are you letting down?

 

i've never felt this way about another person's character. i mean unless they took force bubble, screw those guys. (joking)

 

did someone tell you that you should feel bad? cause they were being a jerk. like even if it was just you telling yourself that. want me to fite em? i'll fite 'em. i got super efficient defender brawl, im not joking around here.

[Abraxus]

2 minutes ago, Shred Monkey said:

 

 

For some people, tweaking a build to maximum potential *IS* the game.  For others, it is costumes or role play.  Some hunt badges and others lead trials and raids.  It's ok to play the way you want.  Just don't be jealous if you're not able to do things that you're friends can do.  But it sounds like you're happy, so all is well.

Yup, happily playing for every bit of this game's existence.  But, I was wrestling with where this fit into things in my big picture.  Thanks to the input of you good folks, I think I have a better bead on it. 😎

[gromartwo]

Before the game shut down I had some of my main characters almost totally tricked out in Enhancement Sets. It was fun to study the sets, collect them, and test out the bonuses. This game-within-a-game was both time consuming and expensive so I limited it to a few builds. Most of my characters practiced "frankenslotting" - ie mixing enhancements from various sets depending on what they needed. 

[Abraxus]

1 minute ago, Schizophobia said:

this makes me sad 😞

i don't want to invalidate how you feel, so i'll just say that that's gotta be a crummy feeling, im sorry.

 

guess im curious though, i usually associate guilt with disappointing someone else. is that what you mean? if so, who are you letting down?

 

i've never felt this way about another person's character. i mean unless they took force bubble, screw those guys. (joking)

 

did someone tell you that you should feel bad? cause they were being a jerk. like even if it was just you telling yourself that. want me to fite em? i'll fite 'em. i got super efficient defender brawl, im not joking around here.

Some of it is probably self-inflicted, because I had heard for so long how much better this approach was, and I knew that in order to form any kind of informed opinion, I had to do it at least once.  I resisted for 15 years (only 8 of which involved actual play opportunity, as opposed to discussion), and now that I've done it, I'm still weighing the repercussions against my available play time, and style of play.  I had to know, and now I do!

[Blastit]

21 minutes ago, Abraxus said:

I don't disagree with either of you.  I totally get it!  It's awesome!  I know I can play how I want to, but I guess I feel a little guilty about not wanting to spend the extra time to correlate all of this information into a workable build, then spending the time, and resources to make it happen; when a L50 character with crafted I/Os (not the set bonus type, just the simple crafted type) could get me around 80% there in most cases without all of that, and still be an effective member of a team.

 

For me, it really comes down to how I want to spend what little time I have to play.  I love getting the most bang for the buck, and the two weeks it took me to assemble everything I needed for this one build just kind of put me off doing this again any time soon.  Now, admittedly, I'm probably not the most efficient at the process, and it might get easier with each iteration.  Guess I'd have to put that to the test in order to really know.

Never underestimate the value of "good enough". If your character is 70-80% to reaching its full potential without you needing to prep a lot then that sounds like a better use of your game time than meticulously planning a build. Then you can practice planning builds when the inspiration genuinely strikes you. If you decide that, yes, you really would like to take that Stalker to the next level then you'll be working at it from a place of passion instead of a vague sense of obligation.

[Doc_Scorpion]

26 minutes ago, Abraxus said:

I feel a little guilty

Don't.

There's quite a few people who will look down on you and/or imply that you're a lesser player for not absolutely twinking out every single character.

Ignore them.

Play the way that you enjoy.
 

Just now, Blastit said:

Then you can practice planning builds when the inspiration genuinely strikes you. If you decide that, yes, you really would like to take that Stalker to the next level then you'll be working at it from a place of passion instead of a vague sense of obligation.

^^^  This, ten billion percent.

[jubakumbi]

I personally I/O the 'chracters' I love - nothing to do with ATs or powers, the particular characters I really feel good about, be it the punny name or whatever about them that brings me joy, those get the I/Os, because spending the time and energy on them feels good.

The rest get the scraps and they can deal with it.

[Abraxus]

I did find one helpful thing that I had never really considered, until it became necessary.  While I was in the process of building this awesome set, I respec'd the character to adjust for the different slotting, and the powers I never used before, that added to the bonuses of the build.  From that, I created a secondary build to further the building process, while still playing on my primary build (the old fashioned crafted enhancement build).  It helped being able to continue playing the character, while still assembling resources with which to complete the secondary (I/O set) build. 

Up to now, I had never had a use for additional builds.  This experiment finally provided the scenario where it was quite useful.

[tidge]

26 minutes ago, molten_dragon said:

I've always found making money in the auction house to be trivial, so it's always been pretty easy for me to outfit a character with IOs.  It does take some planning time though.

 

I don't go whole-hog on every character I have.  I guess I sort of have three tiers of characters depending on how much I like them, and if I have a specific purpose in mind with an IO build.

Get this man another Tier, because it appears that he may have neglected to fully kit out his alternate build slots!

 

I'm a slow leveler who is lazy about looking at IO set bonuses. It's sometime after lvl 20 that I start thinking about things other than KB protection, +End, travel Stealth. By the mid 30s I will have several sets. By the time I get a character to 50 it's a toss-up how deep I go into the build, but I love having the option.

[Abraxus]

1 minute ago, tidge said:

Get this man another Tier, because it appears that he may have neglected to fully kit out his alternate build slots!

 

I'm a slow leveler who is lazy about looking at IO set bonuses. It's sometime after lvl 20 that I start thinking about things other than KB protection, +End, travel Stealth. By the mid 30s I will have several sets. By the time I get a character to 50 it's a toss-up how deep I go into the build, but I love having the option.

I agree wholeheartedly!  I love that the game provides various methods to players about how to power their hero/villain/rogue.  That's what makes this game so awesome!  Choices!  I was just having some difficulty reconciling my reticence to do this for so long, with the obvious value it brings to any character.  And, like so many other things in this game, there are trade-offs to deal with, and as long as you are good with the trade-off, then everything is great!  In this case, it is the time/research/effort/in-game resources, and brain power it takes to do this vs. staying with the less resource intensive methods that are not as powerful, but still quite viable.

The take away here is not feeling like this is a must for every character.  I will take this kind of time for those that I just have to see their ultimate evolution, and not worry about it for those who I deem "fine as is".

[molten_dragon]

8 minutes ago, tidge said:

Get this man another Tier, because it appears that he may have neglected to fully kit out his alternate build slots!

Good point.  I don't think I've ever bothered doing multiple IO builds for a single character before.  Never seen a whole lot of point really.

[The General]

56 minutes ago, Abraxus said:

but I guess I feel a little guilty about not wanting to spend the extra time to correlate all of this information into a workable build, then spending the time, and resources to make it happen; when a L50 character with crafted I/Os (not the set bonus type, just the simple crafted type) could get me around 80% there in most cases without all of that, and still be an effective member of a team.

There is absolutely no need to go for set I/Os.  The game is just plain not balanced around them, a simple SO build will do everything you need.  Add Incarnate stuff on top of that and you're golden.  Don't worry about I/O sets if it's not gonna be fun for you.

[Abraxus]

12 minutes ago, The General said:

There is absolutely no need to go for set I/Os.  The game is just plain not balanced around them, a simple SO build will do everything you need.  Add Incarnate stuff on top of that and you're golden.  Don't worry about I/O sets if it's not gonna be fun for you.

Absolutely!  I believe I'll embrace the strategy of going the extra mile on those characters I REALLY want to keep playing into the later veteran levels, and not worry too much about the ones that will only get hauled out of mothballs when a special occasion arises where they would be thematically fun to play for a short while.

[Shred Monkey]

When I talk/talked to people about this game, I often describe on how I would spend more time in a given day playing "outside" the game then I spent logged in.  I meant this is a good thing.   I love how you can actually improve the power of your toon by studying, planning, and applying rigorous spreadsheets and formulas.  It's one of the great things about this game.  But I also understand that not everyone enjoys that.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Shred Monkey

[Lines]

No Slotshaming.

[Gulbasaur]

2 hours ago, Abraxus said:

But, when I think about the hours involved in creating this damage monster, I'm still not convinced I would do this for every character I have.

What do you all think?

Apart from a few one-off IOs, I don't bother. I have two characters I'd consider fully kitted out, and one of those I really did as a sort of exercise to see how far I could push it (pretty well as I've tanked Romulus on my fortunata, with a very good team but I couldn't have done that without the IOs).