Sorry not sorry

[Solarverse]

12 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

I form the teams usually. Im not leaving. You are, by a fun lil' boot 😀. Act an ass and you're gone. NO NEGOTIATIONS.

In Jub's defense, he/she did say that they voluntarily leave if they see the team is growing annoyed with his/her play style. He/she is not here to annoy anyone it would seem.

 

 

[jubakumbi]

11 minutes ago, Rylas said:

In the highly nuanced situation of what OP was talking about, is that really that time consuming to say "oh, hit up Null the Gull and you won't be affected by it"? 

Not as time consuming as it is for someone else to chime in with the info and wait for the players to run off and do that, but I'll just streetsweep or AH until they get back.

🙂

I simply choose not to interact in those use cases in MMOs, there are plenty who really dig it, let them do it, why take away something they enjoy?

🙂

[jubakumbi]

2 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

In Jub's defense, he/she did say that they voluntarily leave if they see the team is growing annoyed with his/her play style. He/she is not here to annoy anyone it would seem.

As is evidenced by my post history, I will speak my mind on the forums, it's the place to goof off around the game when I cannot play.

I literally solo 99% in game simply so that I do not, ever, impede the playtime of others.

I like to get up and get a drink when I want. I like to get up and take a toke when I want. I like to get up and just walk around when I want. I like to stop playing and have a conversation with my wife when I want. When I had pets, I liked to stop and pet them when they wanted...

 

I feel very strongly that I have no right to make other people wait or negatively impact thier playtime at all from doing these things on my schedule/whim.

So I avoid teams unless I am very sure I won't have to move for the time it takes to run whatever, because in my mind to do otherwise is rude.

 

At the same time, these things in-game that seem to set people off like Group Fly and KB, make me laugh.

I love it when the team creates it's own chaos from powers that cause us all to actually have to play the game rather than herding/facerolling.

It's the most fun I have when playing the game.

Smooth runs = Totally boring, IMO.

Teamwipes make me laugh.

 

If I laughed, I had fun, I could not possibly care less how many virtual rewards I gathered - I progressed, see you next time - even if the 'goal/TF/mission' 'failed'. 

 

With this attitude, I have to be incredibly careful with whom I team, in all games, since I play them all this way.

 

To me, this is super fun prentendy time, but really, it's all just pixels.

I don't have saved games or pictures from my Galaga high scores back in the day, nor do I have tons of saved game data, I just restart. 

Ephemeral entertainment is awesome IMO and there is little more ephemerally entertaining than a group of paniced humans playing a game, thier real personalities come right out to play, and the button mashing begins.

As with most things, I seriously try to not take it too seriously.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

So story time. On live I frequently reported people who attempted to dictate to others how to play their characters and got them banned for days at a time. It very much was against the rules to so much as say you should do this  or dont do that, it qualified as harassment. Likewise threatening to boot unless one capitulated was also bullying and would come with longer bans. I know because those I got banned frequently would then send me in game emails once they got back from their vacation threatening to get me blacklisted from SGs and alliances. Which I would then report as well for harassment and bullying and they would get banned again. One a leader ofa  major SG and regular leader of MSR on virtue ended up perma banned because they just could not understand what they were doing wrong when they would contact me in game to berate and attempt to intimidate me.

 

If you want to boot someone, do so but do not insult them, tell them how to play, or attempt to command their play. All qualify as harassment. Do not threaten to boot them because of X, that is bullying. If you cant communicate without trying to use a Stick to get your way you need to play solo.  People using their powers as intended does not qualify as anything actionable by admin at least not on live. I assume the HC team admins follow a similar set of guidelines.

 

Having a conversation or debate is fine. Trying to order other players around, or make demands upon how they should play are not. Ive gotten many a startator banned for harassment because they kept telling people on the team what to do. Not suggestinga  strategy mind you, but telling them you must do this, dont do that or Ill boot you etc. That behavior is not acceptable and is certainly uncivil and antisocial.

[ShardWarrior]

5 hours ago, Solarverse said:

It only takes a few seconds to type; Hey, do us a favor and aim your knock back toward a wall that the Tank is holding the mobs in, or wait until the mob is locked down by the trollers so you don't scatter the mobs, or if you fly, fly above them and aim down with your AoE knock back. The Tank is trying to keep the mobs tight so we can ALL make good use of our AoE's.

This isn't educating someone to be a better player though.  It's asking them to play the way you want them to instead of how they want to.

[VV]

On 10/28/2019 at 2:38 PM, Gravitus said:

Im not going to alter the way I play because you’re bad at this game or too lazy to go to null. 

Your privilege to swing your arm ends at the tip of my nose. At the very least announce that you are doing it so anyone who does not want to fly can move out of the way. Or, learn the play the game so you can use group fly so it does not impact your teammates. Really, it sounds like you are the bad/lazy player.

[Nericus]

23 hours ago, biostem said:

A power like air superiority can do the same thing, only without scattering them around...

Or I just use energy beam attacks and send them into the walls

[Riverdusk]

I'm more of the view of let people do what they want.  I tend to like to try and min/max my builds, but I don't try to min/max how my team plays unless we agree we are going for a 'speed run' or a badge that requires specific play.

 

The main concern I'd have about group fly was if it still also added a hefty tohit debuff to everyone.  I couldn't remember if they'd removed that or not (and if not whether Null would affect that).  I just checked test server and from what I could tell looking at combat attributes with it running,  it does NOT still have a tohit debuff.  However both the tool tip of the power and the text description of the power still says it does, as in "flying allies suffer from a reduced chance to hit."  Might be good for devs to clean up that outdated text as I'm betting that also makes it less popular. 

[Nericus]

43 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

So story time. On live I frequently reported people who attempted to dictate to others how to play their characters and got them banned for days at a time. It very much was against the rules to so much as say you should do this  or dont do that, it qualified as harassment. Likewise threatening to boot unless one capitulated was also bullying and would come with longer bans. I know because those I got banned frequently would then send me in game emails once they got back from their vacation threatening to get me blacklisted from SGs and alliances. Which I would then report as well for harassment and bullying and they would get banned again. One a leader ofa  major SG and regular leader of MSR on virtue ended up perma banned because they just could not understand what they were doing wrong when they would contact me in game to berate and attempt to intimidate me.

 

If you want to boot someone, do so but do not insult them, tell them how to play, or attempt to command their play. All qualify as harassment. Do not threaten to boot them because of X, that is bullying. If you cant communicate without trying to use a Stick to get your way you need to play solo.  People using their powers as intended does not qualify as anything actionable by admin at least not on live. I assume the HC team admins follow a similar set of guidelines.

 

Having a conversation or debate is fine. Trying to order other players around, or make demands upon how they should play are not. Ive gotten many a startator banned for harassment because they kept telling people on the team what to do. Not suggestinga  strategy mind you, but telling them you must do this, dont do that or Ill boot you etc. That behavior is not acceptable and is certainly uncivil and antisocial.

Startator......I like that.    Ran into a few back in the day with the mindset of do as I command or I can ban you from the server.  Most of them found themselves with some sudden downtime from the game.  Can't imagine why....

 

But seriously, there is no one way to play, no absolute right way to play this game.  One of the best things of the game is the diversity a team can have.  KB can sometimes be a problem but good strategy and compensation for it in the field can deal with that. 

 

The KB to KD io to me are a luxury item however I build my alts with defense in mind first and foremost. If a build of mine cannot achieve the smash and lethal caps with the KB/KD io, then the io is jettisoned from the design in build planner. 

 

If I am going for something like perma light form with defense cap on my PB, same thing, the io is last on the list to consider, if it can be installed without breaking defense or recharge requirement then great. Otherwise not my problem

[Solarverse]

56 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

This isn't educating someone to be a better player though.  It's asking them to play the way you want them to instead of how they want to.

But it is educating. I am not berating them, I am simply asking them to play as a team and not as a RAMBO, and then giving them examples of how to do so. The whole idea that one must dance around semantics out of fear of offending somebody is just not going to happen. They can either play as a team, or they can be dismissed from the team. If I am the one who goes through the trouble to put that team together, then I will for sure have no issues removing a player for trolling the rest of the team by ignoring team etiquette. People can defend whatever they want to, but in a game where most players act like the Star is the herpes, when I build the team, that makes me leader of the team. If people don't want to play nice, then they can play elsewhere or build their own team. I will not ask 6 other players to play the way a single player plays, just because that player refuses to play nice. It is far easier to kick that player, and fill his/her spot than it is to watch 6 other players quit because they are annoyed with a single player and then have to fill six spots on the team.

 

As this title says, Sorry, but not Sorry. /kick

 

If a player wants to play selfishly, then they can play the way *they* want to by themselves or on somebody else's team, it will not be mine.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Solarverse

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

People using their powers as intended

So if someone were to phase enemies that you were fighting, or knock other groups toward you or out of range of your powers, (purely by accident or they were just having fun, of course), you wouldn't mind one bit?  If you were trying to fill the tank role for a team, but one person was scattering mobs to the wind, it wouldn't bother you one bit?  There's a huge difference between how you may define "as intended" and how others may view playing in the spirit of teamwork.  The person who is using their powers "as intended", but without regard for how such play impacts their teammates and others around them, is just as guilty as the team dictator, who barks order incessantly and demands total obedience.

Edited October 30, 2019 by biostem

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

 

 

If you want to boot someone, do so but do not insult them, tell them how to play, or attempt to command their play. All qualify as harassment.

Can you give me an example? Because it sounds like you are saying that by my simply asking somebody to not scatter mobs with their knock back, and requesting they use knock back to put mobs in to a corner instead, would be something you would report and get me banned for. I'm sure this is not what you meant, but it kind of sounds that way. Can you give me an example of the type of thing you got people banned for?

[jubakumbi]

44 minutes ago, biostem said:

So if someone were to phase enemies that you were fighting, or knock other groups toward you or out of range of your powers, (purely by accident or they were just having fun, of course), you wouldn't mind one bit?  If you were trying to fill the tank role for a team, but one person was scattering mobs to the wind, it wouldn't bother you one bit?  There's a huge difference between how you may define "as intended" and how others may view playing in the spirit of teamwork.  The person who is using their powers "as intended", but without regard for how such play impacts their teammates and others around them, is just as guilty as the team dictator, who barks order incessantly and demands total obedience.

While at some extremes, the use cases you present sound very fun to me, provided it people just using their powers, not intentionally being jerks, because that's how everyone learns.

I get where you are coming from, I do, but in the context of this game I would just be following said person to see what chaos was unleashed.

Sounds like my Illusion/Storm controller, TBH.

[biostem]

12 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

that's how everyone learns

Well, not necessarily;  An experienced teammate can say to you "hey, if you use your powers to knock enemies toward the tank or from above, the end result is a lot more effective", and if you listen to them, you can see for yourself.  You can also do all your experimenting while solo or away from other players, so as to not impact their gameplay.

 

14 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

in the context of this game I would just be following said person to see what chaos was unleashed.

Sounds like my Illusion/Storm controller, TBH

Surely you can see how either using your powers carelessly or intentionally sowing chaos can hurt other people's enjoyment of the game, yes?  If all you're doing is having fun scattering mobs while solo, or otherwise away from everyone else, then more power to you, but the moment you do so in range of other players, then it is all on you...

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

So if someone were to phase enemies that you were fighting, or knock other groups toward you or out of range of your powers, (purely by accident or they were just having fun, of course), you wouldn't mind one bit?  If you were trying to fill the tank role for a team, but one person was scattering mobs to the wind, it wouldn't bother you one bit?  There's a huge difference between how you may define "as intended" and how others may view playing in the spirit of teamwork.  The person who is using their powers "as intended", but without regard for how such play impacts their teammates and others around them, is just as guilty as the team dictator, who barks order incessantly and demands total obedience.

As an in game example My ol Berk here depends on keeping drain psyche up and fueled by large groups of mobs. I never ask others to hold back etc. I rush headlong into the fray always trying to be first, because if the mobs get melted by a nuke before I feed off them that puts me at risk. My needing drain psyche to optimize my survival is a me problem. I dont make it the teams problem. If I cant keep ahead of them enough ill just take a different path in the map and solo it. I usually do anyways just because its the best use of my powers. I can clear groups as fast as a full team can typically. so yes to be the best use to my team usually that means being on my own in the map so we dont over kill groups and waste DPS.

 

Understand this. if your playing content at a dif range where locking down, tanking and spanking, and herding are a must to keep the team alive, your playing content above the teams actual capability. Your not increasing xp per min, as number crunchers years ago on live proved that running content at a dif setting where mobs can be one shot by the dps ATs will always yield more xp a min then running much slower at a higher dif then the team can smoothly complete. this is especially true due to the ability of a team to then spread out and kill entire maps at a rate no team rat packing and gang banging can hope to achieve. So if you want to talk about team work and doing whats best for a team, that in reality means everyone is spread out doing their own thing the vast majority of the time in the vast majority of content.

 

If what you really mean is people staying together and buffing each other etc, what your talking about is supporting and carrying those who really shouldnt be in the dif setting being played in. Which mind you I do all the time. I run TFs and pug taking whoever asks to join. I never build a team filling roles etc. Yet always can pretty much specify exactly how long the TF will take based on my carrying a team of less well built characters. I dont begrudge them, I dont berate them, and always make them feel appreciated and vital to the team. My SG mates in fact keep telling me I am far too humble and self depreciating when I lead them in fast, frenetic, fun runs be it TFs or story arcs.

 

The only thing I ever ask of any team mate be ita  pug or not is, do what you do best, and that is all I ask. As Ive said above, I only boot for 2 reasons, bitching about how others play, or trying to back seat lead and countermanding any strategy I may put forward as the plan of action. Unlike some so called team players on this thread that say they abandon allies who KB or leave them to deal with their own mess, I always come to the aid of any team mate in trouble no matter what. Granted I have vengeance so frankly love coming to the aid of a fallen ally getting a veng off and then really going crazy god mode for a bit. Once things are clear I always rez them as I always keep charges of rez ally on hand.

 

And here is the simple difference. If a player is KBing etc theya re doing nothing that warrants a ban. A person telling that player how to use their powers is guilty of harasment and bullying and can be banned for such behavior.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

Well, not necessarily;  An experienced teammate can say to you "hey, if you use your powers to knock enemies toward the tank or from above, the end result is a lot more effective", and if you listen to them, you can see for yourself.  You can also do all your experimenting while solo or away from other players, so as to not impact their gameplay.

 

Surely you can see how either using your powers carelessly or intentionally sowing chaos can hurt other people's enjoyment of the game, yes?  If all you're doing is having fun scattering mobs while solo, or otherwise away from everyone else, then more power to you, but the moment you do so in range of other players, then it is all on you...

except sowing chaos isnt against the rules of conduct. But telling that player not to use their abilities, or threatening to boot them over using their powers is bannable. So its pretty clear what is right and what is wrong within the rules. If a player cant be bothered to chase after mobs, or thinks a few mobs scattering is a huge deal, they are the ones lacking social ability and need to stay solo.

[Bossk_Hogg]

19 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Ah armchair shrinking, how very civil of you. You know so much as suggesting someone has a mental disorder is very much against these forums rules right? You basically undermine yourself as some kind of good sort by making such statements.

The irony seems entirely lost on you, considering your very next post lol. I love how you posit the person telling another player not to make a mess out of every single spawn is the real villain, and not the guy basically griefing the team because they can't consider anyone but themselves. Do you ruin people's badge runs too?

Edited October 31, 2019 by Bossk_Hogg

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

except sowing chaos isnt against the rules of conduct.

Right - that'd fall under griefing or harassment.

 

5 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Understand this. if your playing content at a dif range where locking down, tanking and spanking, and herding are a must to keep the team alive, your playing content above the teams actual capability

That's a strawman.  I never stated that's how a team should or shouldn't be played.  Regardless, now who's telling others how to play?

 

10 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

If what you really mean is people staying together and buffing each other etc, what your talking about is supporting and carrying those who really shouldnt be in the dif setting being played in.

And another instance of you telling others how to play.

 

8 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

If a player cant be bothered to chase after mobs, or thinks a few mobs scattering is a huge deal, they are the ones lacking social ability and need to stay solo.

So in your mind, it is not the person carelessly scattering mobs that's the problem, but the person complaining about it?  Seems like victim blaming to me...

[ShardWarrior]

2 hours ago, Solarverse said:

But it is educating. I am not berating them, I am simply asking them to play as a team and not as a RAMBO, and then giving them examples of how to do so.

Demeanor is irrelevant.  You're telling them how you want them to play by your definition of what teamwork is and what is fun for you. 

[jubakumbi]

25 minutes ago, biostem said:

So in your mind, it is not the person carelessly scattering mobs that's the problem, but the person complaining about it?  Seems like victim blaming to me...

One person's 'careless scattered' is another person's 'awesome positioned'.

There is no one right way from which to define 'careless' here.

There is no crime in using in-game powers, there is no victim to blame.

 

"Could you please focus those powers more strategically so the AoEs work better and I can get my dopamine faster"

vs

"If you don't focus/stop those powers I will kick you because the game flow has to work my way"

vs

I don't like the power combos/usage on this team, but no one else seems to mind, I'll leave. - "Later all"

 

All are available options, YMMV.

[biostem]

1 minute ago, jubakumbi said:

"Could you please focus those powers more strategically so the AoEs work better and I can get my dopamine faster"

vs

"If you don't focus/stop those powers I will kick you because the game flow has to work my way"

vs

I don't like the power combos/usage on this team, but no one else seems to mind, I'll leave. - "Later all"

 

All are available options, YMMV.

In general, I agree with you.  What I think we keep running up against is a difference of perspective;  Is combing the various buffs, debuffs, and abilities of your teammates, in order to take on strong opponents playing beyond what you should, or is it just good tactics?  Is using knock powers on enemies that moves them into another person's range good or bad?  What if you didn't ask if that's what they wanted?  What if they weren't prepared to face more enemies than they already had engaged?  That's why I'm so hung up on communicating with your teammate first, then coming to some kind of agreement ahead of time.  If you all agree to knock enemies into nice tight groups for easy AoE-ing, but someone repeatedly goes against that, then it's clearly that person's fault.  If you agreed that anyone can KB at any time and in any direction, then no one can complain...

[Gravitus]

5 hours ago, Seed22 said:

Understand this:  Null the gull IS NOT NECESSARY TO HIT LEVEL 50. It is NOT their priority to know about it because you can GET TO 50 without ever once having to set foot in PD or switch sides. Imagine that

Understand this:

 

Gaps in a players Game knowledge Isn’t anyone’s problem but that players. You don’t get to tell me what powers I can have on/off when you have the power to ignore them. I mean you can but we don’t have to take you seriously at that point.

[Gravitus]

5 hours ago, Seed22 said:

quick question; did you use GF during the prisoner escape near the doors or away from them?

I had it on most of the time, when it came to the prisoners i turned it off because there is zero benefit since the prisoners don’t attack.

[Gravitus]

4 hours ago, VV said:

Your privilege to swing your arm ends at the tip of my nose. At the very least announce that you are doing it so anyone who does not want to fly can move out of the way. Or, learn the play the game so you can use group fly so it does not impact your teammates. Really, it sounds like you are the bad/lazy player.

Talk about poor analytical skills and a false dichotomy to boot.

 

If people can turn off group fly and don’t, it’s their problem. It’s the equivalent of me swinging my fist, them jumping in the path of it and saying I assaulted them.

 

At that point, they deserved to be ridiculed to discourage then from future idiocy. Which is exactly what I’m doing in the OP.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Gravitus

[jubakumbi]

17 minutes ago, biostem said:

In general, I agree with you.  What I think we keep running up against is a difference of perspective;  Is combing the various buffs, debuffs, and abilities of your teammates, in order to take on strong opponents playing beyond what you should, or is it just good tactics?  Is using knock powers on enemies that moves them into another person's range good or bad?  What if you didn't ask if that's what they wanted?  What if they weren't prepared to face more enemies than they already had engaged?  That's why I'm so hung up on communicating with your teammate first, then coming to some kind of agreement ahead of time.  If you all agree to knock enemies into nice tight groups for easy AoE-ing, but someone repeatedly goes against that, then it's clearly that person's fault.  If you agreed that anyone can KB at any time and in any direction, then no one can complain...

Communicate all you like, but one person's communication can be another person's lecture they don't care to hear. 🙂 

If people want to pour over this kind of minutiae in the game, more power to them, but I just drop and go kill pixels.