Area Slow Master

[Rhaethe]

I have it in my head to create a character who is a master / mistress of area slows.  Someone who can set an entire group to being slowslowslooooowwww.  My first thought was an Ice Controller with either TA or DA ... but as I am thinking about it, am not so sure.

 

Mind you, I am not referring to single target slows, but area ones.  If you wished to create a character that could throw those around like sweet little candies, what would you create?

 

~C

[Redlynne]

THIS might be of interest to you ...

[VV]

I love this idea. I feel like slows are one of the most powerful mitigation/control in the game because few things are immune to them and targets cannot "break out" of them.

[oedipus_tex]

I think the best way to experience this would be to avoid Controllers or Dominators as an AT, because slow will generally be out performed by Immobilize. I would instead try something like a Time/Ice Defender, where you will really make use of the Slow effect. 

[Sailboat]

Ice/Storm Controller has Arctic Air, Shiver and Snowstorm:  a PBAoE, Cone, and a Toggle AoE.

[Uun]

Keep in mind that the speed floor is -90% and the recharge floor is -75%. You can slot slow enhancements to hit the speed floor with a single power, but you can't enhance -recharge so you need to stack powers to hit it (unless the power starts at -75%). If you want a controller, I think Ice/TA, Ice/Rad, Ice/Time, Ice/Storm or Ice/Cold could all do it. I had an Ice/TA back on live. You could also do it with a Cold/Ice, Storm/Ice, Time/Ice, Rad/Ice or TA/Ice defender.

[Erratic1]

Ice/Time will definitely slow things but it's kinda overkill. Moreover you are hostage to group playing as Jack Frost is a miserable pet. While I plan to complete my Ice/Time controller someday, once I have enough spare influence to sink into her, she currently languishes at 45th level. Great buffs though.

 

For slowing things down, I have had a lot more fun with my Ice/Time corruptor. For control I have been much happier with Electric/ Cold.

[oedipus_tex]

 I'd avoid a Controller mainly because they rely on Containment from damage, mostly often achieved with AoE immobilize powers, which largely negates the purpose of slows. 

 

A Defender, Corruptor, or Blaster  (mostly) don't have access to AoE immobilizes and require better management of slows. Time, Ice Manipulation, Trick Arrow, Tactical Arrow, Ice Blast (the rains), Cold Domination, Dark Miasma, and Storm are some examples of sets that make use of Slows.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by oedipus_tex

[Uun]

39 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

I'd avoid a Controller mainly because they rely on Containment from damage, mostly often achieved with AoE immobilize powers, which largely negates the purpose of slows. 

Only negates -speed, not -recharge. Works particularly well on mobs that prefer melee and only have one ranged attack. The immobilize lock them down at range and the -recharge prevents them from shooting you more than once.

[oedipus_tex]

1 hour ago, Uun said:

Only negates -speed, not -recharge. Works particularly well on mobs that prefer melee and only have one ranged attack. The immobilize lock them down at range and the -recharge prevents them from shooting you more than once.

 

-Recharge is a so-so effect on a Controller, mainly because powers recharge even while enemies are mezzed. It is true Ice Control relies on it more than other sets and can make some use of it via Arctic Air, forcing confused enemies to expend their powers on each other.

 

I still think for a master of slows though I'd be looking at Ice/Time Corr or Defender. For that build you really need to use the slow to stay alive. For Ice Control its an effect that's there but that plays only modestly into the build, in part because you're encouraged to get up in the enemies face anyway. Ice Blast on the other hand can handily crash enemy run speed while running away or forcing enemies to chase through rains. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by oedipus_tex

[roleki]

I'm not saying it can't be done (perhaps even easily) but having run a couple of Ice/TA controllers for ~120 levels, it's hard for me to imagine anything slowing mobs down like that combo.  

 

There are 7x AoE slows in Ice/TA and 5x AoE -Recharge powers, all backed up by 4 single-target attacks that do both Slow and -Recharge.  That's all before Jack stumbles by and starts waving around at people, theoretically slowing them as well.

 

If the cap numbers indicated earlier in the thread  (-75% Recharge, -90% Speed) are accurate, then Shiver floors Recharge in one application (-81.25%) as would any combination of Arctic Air/Glacier (-62.5%) and any other power (Entangling Arrow/Ice Arrow, -12.5%; Chilblain/Frostbite -25%; Block of Ice -37.5%).

 

As for the speed floor, both Arctic Air and Shiver hit for -81.25%, Glacier hits for -62.5%, then Chilblain/Ice Arrow/Block of Ice/Frostbite all hit for -37.5%, with Ice Arrow and Entangling Arrow at -12.5%. 

 

I don't have numbers for Glue Arrow, Ice Slick or Oil Slick Arrow because RedTomax's archive didn't go that deep, but I figure they are somewhere between -12.5% and 37.5%.

 

In any case, that's a lot of slow!

[Redlynne]

Slow is useful in a debuffing context ... but not all that useful in a mez/lockdown context, because the lockdown of the mez overshadows the value of the slow effects (recharge debuffing and movement debuffing).

[roleki]

36 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

Slow is useful in a debuffing context ... but not all that useful in a mez/lockdown context, because the lockdown of the mez overshadows the value of the slow effects (recharge debuffing and movement debuffing).

Hah!  That's where Ice/TA gets it - you're going to need all that Slow/Recharge because your DPS is so sad that stuff emerges from mez before you can kill it dead.  

[Crowcus Pocus]

Earth/TA slows the crap out of things and at range. If you want to be in the middle of things, then Ice/Time is what you're looking for.

[oedipustex]

Keep in mind that +4 enemies resist all debuffs by about 50%, so the real picture as you approach higher levels is that Shiver puts enemies at about halfway debuffed.

 

It is true that -Recharge works like Defense in that as you approach reducing it more and more, each of Recharge point matters more, up to the cap. 

 

-75 = 4 times as long to recharge

-50 = 2 times as long to recharge

 0 = same time to recharge

 

In other words, if you hit something already at -50% recharge with an additional -25% recharge, you double the effect from x2 recharge time to x4. But if you apply -25% and nothing else, the effect registers as not even a x2 increase. This is why players get destroyed in any content where enemies can pile on -Recharge, and why you can go from doing ok to totally screwed in just a hit or two.

 

The practical application of this is that if you care about -Recharge as an effect, you should slam enemies with as much of as you can for it to really matter. Shiver + Arctic Air will do that, but only for the duration of Shiver, which is embaressingly short. If Shiver lasted a full minute, it might be worth it.

 

(The other practical application of this is Hasten is the single best power in the game for resisting -Recharge. Since Hasten gives you +70% Recharge, if you get hit with -75% Recharge that will quadruple the recharge time of another player, your -Recharge is still close to breaking even.)

 

 

 

[mbre2006]

On 11/25/2019 at 1:02 PM, Sailboat said:

Ice/Storm Controller has Arctic Air, Shiver and Snowstorm:  a PBAoE, Cone, and a Toggle AoE.

So does an Ice/Ice dom

[Rhaethe]

This definitely gives me more to ponder through.  I had never really thought of the -Recharge powers before.  Is there a list of them somewhere, perhaps on Pargaon Wiki?

 

~C

[oedipus_tex]

30 minutes ago, Rhaethe said:

This definitely gives me more to ponder through.  I had never really thought of the -Recharge powers before.  Is there a list of them somewhere, perhaps on Pargaon Wiki?

 

~C

 

That old post of mine from 8 years ago used to have a chart, but its long gone now.

 

Here are the main AoEs I know of for Controllers:

 

PRIMARIES

• Ice Control
  • Arctic Air: -62.5 while inside the aura 
  • Shiver: -81.25 for 18 seconds. (This can be stacked on itself) 
  • Glacier: -62.5 for 10 seconds (Unfeasible to stack due to 240 second recharge)

SECONDARIES

• Cold Domination or Storm Summoning
  • Snow Storm: -62.5% for duration of toggle
  • Freezing Rain / Sleet: -40% for 30 seconds
  • Heat Loss (Cold only):  -240% for 30 seconds (has a 360 second Recharge tho, so this is impossible to get anywhere close to perma)
• Time
  • Distortion Field: -62.5% for 45 seconds 
• Trick Arrow
  • Glue Arrow: -20% for 1 minute (the debuff values suck but the duration is extremely impressive)

 

TERTS

• PSI MASTERY
  • Psionic Tornado: -37.5% 
• ICE MASTERY
  • Ice Storm: -10%

 

Oddly enough, after Ice Controllers, Blasters are among the best at bottoming out -Recharge because they have access to Shiver, with a value of -65% for 18 seconds (stackable). Unlike a Controller this is actually maybe worth casting since you have nothing better for mitigation. 

 

In terms of which powerset combo could floor virtually any enemy and keep it there, that honor probably belongs to Ice Control/Cold Domination.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Redlynne]

I would point out that with sufficient recharge reduction (which Time Manipulation is basically begging for to perma Chrono Shift and Farsight!) you can have multiple Distortion Fields out, and I'm pretty sure they'll stack with each other(!) since the debuffing is coming from different (pseudo-pet) casters.  So having 2-3 Distortion Fields running concurrently is quite doable (if a little frantic to try and keep up with).

 

Also, you want to keep an eye on recharge debuffing procs from sets, since there are multiples of those (Pacing of the Turtle in Slow sets and Dark Watcher's Despair in ToHit Debuff sets and even Basilisk's Gaze in Hold sets) since those will stack the recharge debuffing even more deeply.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Redlynne

[Frosticus]

consider ice/poison

 

if weaken works the way it probably should.

[Frosticus]

2 hours ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

and NeuroToxin Breath. This combo can meet the OPs needs. Its a late blooming combo and could offset the low damage with procs.

yeppers. weaken+neuro+shiver would be  an icecream cone of unpleasantness. 

 

weaken *should* allow you to greatly impact the movement of things that are even fairly resistant to it

 

AA+venomous gas+ proc bomb trap should do well in melee.

[Rhaethe]

Hmmm.  Ice/Poison sounds interesting.  Having issues coming up with a theme for it yet, though 😄

 

~C

[Redlynne]

6 hours ago, Rhaethe said:

Hmmm.  Ice/Poison sounds interesting.  Having issues coming up with a theme for it yet, though 😄

Poison Ivy

 

Your name is Poison Icy ... and you've got a "thing" against people calling you a hottie.

[Rhaethe]

22 hours ago, Redlynne said:

Poison Ivy

 

Your name is Poison Icy ... and you've got a "thing" against people calling you a hottie.

 

On 11/29/2019 at 1:04 PM, 5099y_74c05 said:

Animal based mutant perhaps based on aquatic or reptile animal genetics. Tech or alchemist based using cryotech and chemical knowledge. For a dark hero/villian using magic Ice and Poison remind me of things related to harshness and death but can also share elements of water as well.

 

I took inspiration from both of these and went with a Science origin hero named Arsenice.  PhD in chemistry and cryogenics, and gets fairly annoyed with "Hottie" catcalls 😉

 

We'll see how this combination goes :)

 

~C

[Rhaethe]

3 hours ago, Rhaethe said:

 

 

I took inspiration from both of these and went with a Science origin hero named Arsenice.  PhD in chemistry and cryogenics, and gets fairly annoyed with "Hottie" catcalls 😉

 

We'll see how this combination goes :)

 

~C

 

I can already tell that I am absolutely not fond of the teeny radius on Envenom and Weaken o.O

 

I think I might pair Poison with Earth, and try out an Ice/Cold.  Let's see how THAT goes :)

 

~C

Edited December 1, 2019 by Rhaethe