Taunt required to tank Hami?

[Menelruin]

So I saw some discussion about tanking builds and how often nowadays they just rely on punchvoke and skip Taunt.  However, in the Hami raids on Torchbearer, I've asked and been told that Taunt is required to hold his aggro. Can anyone comment on this one way or the other?

[Corruption]

While I've never tried, punch taunting Hami during the mito phase is probably sufficient. However, you run the risk of someone stealing aggro once the attack on Hami starts.

[Major_Decoy]

Well, it's also a matter of, the closer you are to Hamidon, the closer the people healing you are to Hamidon. Taunt might give you enough range that the healers don't need to be in the goo.

 

That being said, 99% of tank builds aren't hamidon tanking builds. If you want to tank Hamidon, your defenses and resistances don't matter. Your maximum hit points and regeneration do.

[Menelruin]

59 minutes ago, Major_Decoy said:

Well, it's also a matter of, the closer you are to Hamidon, the closer the people healing you are to Hamidon. Taunt might give you enough range that the healers don't need to be in the goo.

 

That being said, 99% of tank builds aren't hamidon tanking builds. If you want to tank Hamidon, your defenses and resistances don't matter. Your maximum hit points and regeneration do.

Well, Infinitum was kind enough to make a build for my Shield/Rad tanker, and I know Shield gives boosts to max HP, but the build in question lacked Taunt....

[Apparition]

8 minutes ago, Menelruin said:

Well, Infinitum was kind enough to make a build for my Shield/Rad tanker, and I know Shield gives boosts to max HP, but the build in question lacked Taunt....

 

Use your second build slot for a Hamidon raid build.

[Call Me Awesome]

I'm firmly of the opinion that Taunt is needed in order to be a tank; without it you may as well be a higher HP lower damage Scrapper.  In isolation yes you'll hold aggro without it but add the team's damage and it can get problematic, to say nothing of what you do when some mobs you don't have around you turn on the Blaster.

 

Some Tanker primaries do have a strong enough aura to hold aggro reasonably well but punchvoke will NOT hold attention as well as Taunt.  Taunt and punchvoke together WILL hold the attention.

 

If I'm teaming with a tanker who doesn't have Taunt then I know that I'll have to manage my own aggro because he will loose it.  Of course my assumption is always that I have to manage my own aggro because the art of tanking isn't what it once was and good tanks are very few and far between.

 

Sorry, but I've always had the opinion that if you aren't going to manage and hold aggro then you should roll a Scrapper or Brute, not a Tanker.  After all if you don't want to tank then play an AT with more damage and good durability.

[Redlynne]

A Tanker without Taunt is like a Blaster without damage enhancements.

 

You can do it ... but you have to start asking why ...

[Haijinx]

8 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

A Tanker without Taunt is like a Blaster without damage enhancements.

 

You can do it ... but you have to start asking why ...

Some people seem to have a real problem getting enough power picks.

 

 

[Major_Decoy]

At low levels, it can be hard to fit taunt it. On some builds, I can't get taunt until 28. That is, however, immaterial to tanking Hamidon.

 

Hamidon is a different kind of challenge. You want taunt because his attack is AoE and massive damage. If you're up in melee with the rest of the raid, the rest of the raid is taking damage and you're no longer tanking.

 

If you're at range then is attack is only hitting you and you're still tanking.

[boggo2300]

Isn't not being DE enough to taunt Hami?

[Call Me Awesome]

17 hours ago, boggo2300 said:

Isn't not being DE enough to taunt Hami?

I have no clue what you're trying to say here.  I was the main Hami tank on Guardian from issue 4 until the Hami raid revamp and in order to hold Hami's aggro you need Taunt and preferably a ranged attack since Taunt is a massive aggro multiplier and it's much more effective combined with an attack.  You MUST hold his aggro against the entire raid's damage output and you MUST do it from far enough out that the raid isn't in the AOE splash zone.  This requires a totally solid hold on aggro and this requires Taunt.

 

Admittedly I haven't tanked the new Hami since Live but I do know what it takes to hold aggro from an entire raid, some of which will be other tankers or scrapper/brutes with auras.  You must have solid aggro, you must maintain that aggro and to do that you must have taunt or you'll loose aggro and the raid will wipe.  I did it three times a week for years on Guardian and I had to keep aggro in the face of hundreds of players, some of whom were also tankers and a very few who were doing their damndest to make the raid fail by taunting into the group.

 

I repeat, in order to maintain a solid unshakeable aggro on any mob you need Taunt and an attack.  Neither alone will do the job.  To do it from range you MUST have a ranged attack, preferably one that recharges quickly, and Taunt.

[boggo2300]

1 hour ago, Call Me Awesome said:

I have no clue what you're trying to say here.  I was the main Hami tank on Guardian from issue 4 until the Hami raid revamp and in order to hold Hami's aggro you need Taunt and preferably a ranged attack since Taunt is a massive aggro multiplier and it's much more effective combined with an attack.  You MUST hold his aggro against the entire raid's damage output and you MUST do it from far enough out that the raid isn't in the AOE splash zone.  This requires a totally solid hold on aggro and this requires Taunt.

 

Admittedly I haven't tanked the new Hami since Live but I do know what it takes to hold aggro from an entire raid, some of which will be other tankers or scrapper/brutes with auras.  You must have solid aggro, you must maintain that aggro and to do that you must have taunt or you'll loose aggro and the raid will wipe.  I did it three times a week for years on Guardian and I had to keep aggro in the face of hundreds of players, some of whom were also tankers and a very few who were doing their damndest to make the raid fail by taunting into the group.

 

I repeat, in order to maintain a solid unshakeable aggro on any mob you need Taunt and an attack.  Neither alone will do the job.  To do it from range you MUST have a ranged attack, preferably one that recharges quickly, and Taunt.

It was a joke about game lore, don't read anything into it

[Call Me Awesome]

42 minutes ago, boggo2300 said:

It was a joke about game lore, don't read anything into it

The only thing I can come up with is Granite Armor's DE model.

[boggo2300]

3 minutes ago, Call Me Awesome said:

The only thing I can come up with is Granite Armor's DE model.

Hamidon is the source of the Devouring Earth

[Call Me Awesome]

Just now, boggo2300 said:

Hamidon is the source of the Devouring Earth

Indeed it is.  I'm afraid I may be missing your point.

[siolfir]

25 minutes ago, Call Me Awesome said:

Indeed it is.  I'm afraid I may be missing your point.

As he said, it was a joke.

By not being Devouring Earth, that is enough to taunt (draw the hate of) Hamidon, thus making him want to kill you.

 

There was nothing more to it than that - it had nothing to do with the actual Taunt power, the ability to tank Hamidon in either the Hive or Abyss, team mechanics, league mechanics, or maintaining aggro. Just a joke, nothing more.

[Call Me Awesome]

1 minute ago, siolfir said:

As he said, it was a joke.

By not being Devouring Earth, that is enough to taunt (draw the hate of) Hamidon, thus making him want to kill you.

 

There was nothing more to it than that - it had nothing to do with the actual Taunt power, the ability to tank Hamidon in either the Hive or Abyss, team mechanics, league mechanics, or maintaining aggro. Just a joke, nothing more.

I understood it was a joke, I just missed the point... something I occasionally tend to do.  You're right about that, I just didn't see it.🤔

[siolfir]

2 minutes ago, Call Me Awesome said:

I understood it was a joke, I just missed the point... something I occasionally tend to do.  You're right about that, I just didn't see it.🤔

It's all good, just thought I'd try my hand explaining once the conversation shifted to talking about models for granite armor. I guess I should have used the  instead of the ♥️ when I put my reaction to the post.

[boggo2300]

2 hours ago, Call Me Awesome said:

Indeed it is.  I'm afraid I may be missing your point.

people not being Devouring Earth upsets Hamidon (I did say don't read to much into it 😄 )

[Redlynne]

How to tell a Joke.

 

Step 1:  Tell Joke.

Step 2:  Explain Joke.

Step 3: ... laugh ...

[shoziku]

4 hours ago, Call Me Awesome said:

I was the main Hami tank on Guardian from issue 4 until the Hami raid revamp and in order to hold Hami's aggro you need Taunt and preferably a ranged attack since Taunt is a massive aggro multiplier and it's much more effective combined with an attack.  

That's very cool.  I played on Guardian and did dozens of Hami raids (pre Hami revamp).  I was either on the drop team or dps swarm of millions.  I always loved our tank because he was always there and always did his job even through the occasional griefing taunters because we all recovered anyway.  those were great Hami raids, thank you for making them such a good time.  And all that pixie dust.

[boggo2300]

12 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

How to tell a Joke.

 

Step 1:  Tell Joke.

Step 2:  Explain Joke.

Step 3: ... laugh ...

ouch 😄

[Call Me Awesome]

13 minutes ago, shoziku said:

That's very cool.  I played on Guardian and did dozens of Hami raids (pre Hami revamp).  I was either on the drop team or dps swarm of millions.  I always loved our tank because he was always there and always did his job even through the occasional griefing taunters because we all recovered anyway.  those were great Hami raids, thank you for making them such a good time.  And all that pixie dust.

I did the best I could to keep attention away from you guys, although you likely got tired of my position macros: "Hami tank moving right, beware of Hami Splash!" and so forth.

[Christopher Robin]

On 1/7/2020 at 8:54 PM, Redlynne said:

How to tell a Joke.

 

Step 1:  Tell Joke.

Step 2:  Explain Joke.

Step 3: ... laugh ...

On 1/7/2020 at 6:11 PM, boggo2300 said:

Hamidon is the source of the Devouring Earth

On 1/7/2020 at 6:12 PM, Call Me Awesome said:

Indeed it is.  I'm afraid I may be missing your point.

On 1/7/2020 at 6:51 PM, siolfir said:

It's all good, just thought I'd try my hand explaining once the conversation shifted to talking about models for granite armor. I guess I should have used the  instead of the ♥️ when I put my reaction to the post.

Explaining a joke is kind of like dissecting a frog... you understand it better but the frog dies in the process.

 

@Redlynne clearly you forgot the most important step...

 

Step 1:  Tell Joke.

Step 2:  Explain Joke.

Step 3: ... laugh ...

Step 4:  Profit

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Heraclea]

The only tanker I've tried to tank Hamidon on is bio/spines, which has the regen abilities and a ranged attack as well as Taunt.