Fire/Rad going slow

[quixoteprog]

I made up a red side Fire/Rad controller a few weeks ago. I like him fine. But probably should have done some other secondary. The debuffs in Rad seem to only ever be worthwhile in groups because in solo they eat up so much end that I am better off just using it to do damage.

 

Not posting a build to get detailed build help. Just looking for general tips on skipable powers and if there is a specific point where they usually take off.

 

 

[Dahle]

I love Fire/Rad, but I don't take the debuff toggle until my late 20s at earliest because I the need 2 slots of End Redux.  If I take 1 of them earlier it is to do pulls of mobs, and I just turn it on to get the mob and then off again immediately.  My primary power in Rad before that point will be Accelerated  Metabolism.  No matter what when I hit 40 or 50 (maybe both) I respec most controllers to reassign slots more appropriately, and then you can throw those powers in a bit earlier so that you can have them slotted to combat the End cost.

[Coyote]

It's hard to run the toggles AND Hot Feet early. Though the toggles are great. If you do take them and Hot Feet early, be sure to slot them up with End Red early, don't worry about the -ToHit from Radiation Infection. It would be nice to improve it, but the slots just aren't there. Of course, get Panacea in Health ASAP, some slots in Stamina, and Hasten (so that you can use it to get Accel Metab up faster). It's a hard balance to do all that and damage too. An idea might be to take both toggles and just run EF if your defenses are solid but you want to do more damage, but run just RI if you need help surviving.

[SeraphimKensai]

Honestly I'm in the camp that Hotfeet could reasonably have it's end usage reduced on the base level as if I recall correctly (I'm at work so no access to the game), hot feet uses 1.08 end/second which is significantly higher than average for a dot PBAoE toggle.

[Coyote]

Well, it costs 1.04 EPS, but  does 13 damage per tick with a 20' radius.

Mud Pots costs .56, but only does 8 damage per tick with a 15' radius.

Both values on a Dominator so I could check without worrying about damage scales.

 

So, in DPE terms, it's a bit high but not by a lot, and it does have a 33% increase in radius (more in area, but I'm not sure which would be a more fair measure of AoE value... area or radius). Looking at the increase in damage and radius, it seems to be about 2.16x as "effective" as Mud Pots. So its EPS is actually more efficient than Mud Pots. Maybe. Depends on how you value the increase in Radius.

 

In DPE terms, it costs about 14% more Endurance per point of damage. IMO, if Mud Pots is fine, then Hot Feet seems fine.

[Frosticus]

/rad is a force multiplier. 

 

things improve a large amount once you get imps and again when you start adding damage from your epics. 

 

strive for recharge for high uptime of AM/hasten and get your endurance sorted out. Fire/rad is quite strong. 

 

playwise you will often just use EF and LR for most fights as rad infection is too slow. 

 

[quixoteprog]

21 hours ago, Frosticus said:

/rad is a force multiplier. 

 

things improve a large amount once you get imps and again when you start adding damage from your epics. 

 

strive for recharge for high uptime of AM/hasten and get your endurance sorted out. Fire/rad is quite strong. 

 

playwise you will often just use EF and LR for most fights as rad infection is too slow. 

 

Yeah, I was pretty confident that once I got Imps the combination of AM and all the debuffs would be pretty strong. All the other controllers I have run were kind of slow going in the mid-low range.

 

I took Hot Feet but almost never run it. The problem is that running on normal difficulty +0/x1 most mission spawns are 3 minions or 1 min. 1 Lt. That just doesn't justify the cost to run it when it is just damaging 2-3 mobs. Not compared to using the endurance to do attacks. If I were in a group with someone tanking for me it might be worth it, but then I would probably want to hang back and attack at range.

 

I have thought about running at -1/x2-3 and see if that makes it worthwhile. Has anyone tried that?

Edited January 17, 2020 by quixoteprog

[Carnifax]

On 1/17/2020 at 12:31 PM, quixoteprog said:

Yeah, I was pretty confident that once I got Imps the combination of AM and all the debuffs would be pretty strong. All the other controllers I have run were kind of slow going in the mid-low range.

 

I took Hot Feet but almost never run it. The problem is that running on normal difficulty +0/x1 most mission spawns are 3 minions or 1 min. 1 Lt. That just doesn't justify the cost to run it when it is just damaging 2-3 mobs. Not compared to using the endurance to do attacks. If I were in a group with someone tanking for me it might be worth it, but then I would probably want to hang back and attack at range.

 

I have thought about running at -1/x2-3 and see if that makes it worthwhile. Has anyone tried that?

Solo its probably worth doing that. Any AoE character its worthwhile lowering level and increasing numbers. DPE is much better.

 

Also you can Insp burn as you go. More defeats means more insp drops means quicker defeats .

 

Also frankenslotting hotfeet (and choking cloud) to level isnt the worst idea in the world. Use Attuneds and theyll be useful all the way to 50.

 

 

Edited January 18, 2020 by Carnifax

[quixoteprog]

On 1/18/2020 at 4:57 PM, Carnifax said:

Solo its probably worth doing that. Any AoE character its worthwhile lowering level and increasing numbers. DPE is much better.

 

Also you can Insp burn as you go. More defeats means more insp drops means quicker defeats .

 

Also frankenslotting hotfeet (and choking cloud) to level isnt the worst idea in the world. Use Attuneds and theyll be useful all the way to 50.

 

 

I never took Choking cloud on my Ill/Rad because I rarely entered melee range and it just seemed like a waste. But I took it on the Fire/Rad and it is working out REALLY well so far. If I open up with Flashfire to stun the mobs and then move it I take only minimal damage. I did not take it until after I got the imps so it might be different without them burning things down in addition to Hotfeet.

 

His main problem is still endurance, which is in constant short supply. It is better now with the imps because he does not have to run the two toggles and kill everything himself. But he is running with bosses off and I don't know if he will ever be good at taking on EBs or AVs. His ST damage is just so, so meh.

 

I made 35 this weekend and am working on taking Mu for his Patron pool. I thought about switching to Hero long enough to take Fire, since that would match both the theme as well as give him access to fire ball, and Consume. But have never taken one of the Villain pools so figured I'd check it out.

[Carnifax]

1 hour ago, quixoteprog said:

I never took Choking cloud on my Ill/Rad because I rarely entered melee range and it just seemed like a waste. But I took it on the Fire/Rad and it is working out REALLY well so far. If I open up with Flashfire to stun the mobs and then move it I take only minimal damage. I did not take it until after I got the imps so it might be different without them burning things down in addition to Hotfeet.

 

His main problem is still endurance, which is in constant short supply. It is better now with the imps because he does not have to run the two toggles and kill everything himself. But he is running with bosses off and I don't know if he will ever be good at taking on EBs or AVs. His ST damage is just so, so meh.

 

I made 35 this weekend and am working on taking Mu for his Patron pool. I thought about switching to Hero long enough to take Fire, since that would match both the theme as well as give him access to fire ball, and Consume. But have never taken one of the Villain pools so figured I'd check it out.

Mu has Power Sink or something doesn't it? My Plant/Stormie took it because of that. 

 

 

[quixoteprog]

3 hours ago, Carnifax said:

Mu has Power Sink or something doesn't it? My Plant/Stormie took it because of that. 

 

 

Yeah, and it is the first power. Consume in fire is the final one, so depending on how well Power Sink works, Mu would be the better option. Mu also has an AoE damage power, which is what this guy seems to be geared toward.

 

I am considering slotting Choking Cloud with procs, at least maybe Basilisk's Gaze and Lockdown, but do the hold procs only go off on initial activation or with every "tick/pulse"? The people saying CC was skippable mainly complain that it is only a 1 mag hold.  But if I add the +2 mag proc in it that goes off 3/min that might be pretty cool.

[Coyote]

I think that CC is both a 1 and a 2 mag Hold, checked separately... if both go off on a Lt, it should hold the target.

Procs in toggle powers check every 10 seconds, with the standard Recharge/Area/PPM calculation. If it's 3 PPM, I think the Area Factor is about 3, so it should activate 1 time per minute, giving it a 1/6 chance every 10 seconds. So without the proc, it should be:

50% chance for a Mag 2 Hold (minion)

80% chance for a Mag 1 Hold (no effect by itself, but will push up magnitude on other Holds)

both of those are 7.5 seconds (enhanceable) with a 5 second check.

 

With the proc, you would add:

16% chance for a Mag 2 Hold (minion) with a 10 second check... I think an 8 second (non-enhanceable) duration.

 

[quixoteprog]

5 minutes ago, Coyote said:

I think that CC is both a 1 and a 2 mag Hold, checked separately... if both go off on a Lt, it should hold the target.

Procs in toggle powers check every 10 seconds, with the standard Recharge/Area/PPM calculation. If it's 3 PPM, I think the Area Factor is about 3, so it should activate 1 time per minute, giving it a 1/6 chance every 10 seconds. So without the proc, it should be:

50% chance for a Mag 2 Hold (minion)

80% chance for a Mag 1 Hold (no effect by itself, but will push up magnitude on other Holds)

both of those are 7.5 seconds (enhanceable) with a 5 second check.

 

With the proc, you would add:

16% chance for a Mag 2 Hold (minion) with a 10 second check... I think an 8 second (non-enhanceable) duration.

 

Yeah, I was looking at the number on how holds work, but had not taken into account how procs/min scales down somewhat on an AoE. Still probably good because of multiple targets, but not as super good as I was thinking.

 

The problem with slotting CC is it doesn't take Accuracy and I don't care so much for recharge on a toggle, while most of the combinations in the hold and controller sets are Acc/Hold, Acc/End/Hold/Rech. Only one or two have End/Hold, which is all I care about. So I am torn between slotting with 2 end red and then either 4 damage procs or 2 Lockdown and 2 WoTC to get the global damage bonus they offer. Does the global damage bonus add to the Imps? They are a large % of my damage ATM and so if not I would lean more heavily toward the procs.

 

 

[Jolly Ogre]

Heh...i tank the ITF with my Frad.

 

you just have to figure out when to use the de-buff toggles and when not to. 

 

Getting more than 1 on a team and you have perma AM. with 4 you are unstoppable....with 8 it just silly fun...STF in 30 min.... the 4 AVs in 5 min.

[Hyperstrike]

8 man Fire/Rad superteams are just flaming, choking roombas of painful death.

FR1: Look out for...
AV: I will slay*COUGH*CHOKE*WHEEZE*DIE*SIZZLE*
FR1: ...the AV...
FR2: What AV?
FR3: Huh? Where?

[Call Me Awesome]

Solo Fire/Rad can be a bit slow starting and a bit squishy even late game... their power comes as a force multiplier.  Two of them are much more effective and each additional one is more effective than the last.  A full 8 man team of them will move through a map without ever even pausing for anything short of an AV, and even an AV isn't much more than a "Hold up a sec, we need to cook this AV"... "Ok, let's move on now"

 

8 high level Fire/Rads are just stupid good at killing anything in the game.  Huh, I just had an idea, how about a full 48 man league of Fire/Rads on a MSR?  Think we could smoke it?🤣

[Hyperstrike]

On 1/26/2020 at 9:10 PM, Call Me Awesome said:

Solo Fire/Rad can be a bit slow starting and a bit squishy even late game... their power comes as a force multiplier.  Two of them are much more effective and each additional one is more effective than the last.  A full 8 man team of them will move through a map without ever even pausing for anything short of an AV, and even an AV isn't much more than a "Hold up a sec, we need to cook this AV"... "Ok, let's move on now"

 

8 high level Fire/Rads are just stupid good at killing anything in the game.  Huh, I just had an idea, how about a full 48 man league of Fire/Rads on a MSR?  Think we could smoke it?🤣

During my Fire/Rad event days on Freedom, we once brought three teams of Fire/Rads to a ship raid.  Plus a few miscellaneous kins.

Most of the league spent the bowl phase of the raid at Recharge Cap.
BEFORE INCARNATES!

[quixoteprog]

Went Fire/Rad/Mu. Power Sink is pure gold for a PBAoE based toon.

 

Probably the biggest jump in performance was, as expected, the addition of the imps. With Choking Cloud and HotFeet Running I really don't need to do much else even running at +0/2. Could probably run higher, but ST is still a bit limited so bosses, and anything that requires more than a mag 2 hold still give a bit of trouble.

 

Best solution to bosses I have found is, drop Bonfire to throw them up in the air, by the time they get to their feet I can usually drop Char on them a couple times in a row and be on top of them to let Choking Cloud and the imps do the rest. The debuffs are just icing on the choke, as it were.

 

The biggest hassle is that after lvl 35 just about every freaking mob on the planet seems to have a stun effect that drops my toggles.

Edited February 3, 2020 by quixoteprog

[Atomic Quin]

Just came back COH and first character I rolled up was a recreation of my Fire/Rad from back in the day. Anyone have a good build for modern day?

[Without_Pause]

On 1/16/2020 at 3:29 PM, Coyote said:

In DPE terms, it costs about 14% more Endurance per point of damage. IMO, if Mud Pots is fine, then Hot Feet seems fine.

You didn't factor in containment.

[Doomguide2005]

On 1/23/2020 at 4:55 PM, Jolly Ogre said:

Heh...i tank the ITF with my Frad.

 

you just have to figure out when to use the de-buff toggles and when not to. 

 

Getting more than 1 on a team and you have perma AM. with 4 you are unstoppable....with 8 it just silly fun...STF in 30 min.... the 4 AVs in 5 min.

Time Force II competition 7 FRads (the 8th team spot was a judge) took down all 4 patrons in 2:17 seconds.  Still remember watching that the first time ... crazy damage output.

[Coyote]

2 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

You didn't factor in containment.

 

Well, yeah, but that's because I was comparing the power vs power for a Dominator, who have both powers but don't have Containment. If Controllers had Mud Pots, it would probably get the same Containment effect as Hot Feet, so the ratio should remain even between Controller Hot Feet vs a theoretical Controller Mud Pots.

[quixoteprog]

15 hours ago, Atomic Quin said:

Just came back COH and first character I rolled up was a recreation of my Fire/Rad from back in the day. Anyone have a good build for modern day?

I'd be interested in this too. I got the guy to 50 and am pretty satisfied with the power choices, but have no idea what the optimal selection of enhancement sets are. I frankenslotted hotfeet to maximize ac/dam/endred and for Choking cloud did a hybrid of Basilisks Gaze and Lockdown, but other than that he is still vanilla IOs.

 

I rarely get a guy decked out in IO sets. I have 6 guys to 50+3 and hardly any of them have sets. Just too much of a hassle to figure out all the bonuses and stuff.

 

 

[Jolly Ogre]

On 1/28/2020 at 3:00 AM, Hyperstrike said:

During my Fire/Rad event days on Freedom, we once brought three teams of Fire/Rads to a ship raid.  Plus a few miscellaneous kins.

Most of the league spent the bowl phase of the raid at Recharge Cap.
BEFORE INCARNATES!

I remember that ...was that with TopDoc or Tribal? Either way I played the superteams with both of them. Good times. And we did all this with SO's no IO's or sets.

 

Cinder Decay was and is my name. Choke on it and burn was my motto!

Edited February 26, 2020 by Jolly Ogre

[Jolly Ogre]

On 1/28/2020 at 7:48 AM, quixoteprog said:

Went Fire/Rad/Mu. Power Sink is pure gold for a PBAoE based toon.

 

Probably the biggest jump in performance was, as expected, the addition of the imps. With Choking Cloud and HotFeet Running I really don't need to do much else even running at +0/2. Could probably run higher, but ST is still a bit limited so bosses, and anything that requires more than a mag 2 hold still give a bit of trouble.

 

Best solution to bosses I have found is, drop Bonfire to throw them up in the air, by the time they get to their feet I can usually drop Char on them a couple times in a row and be on top of them to let Choking Cloud and the imps do the rest. The debuffs are just icing on the choke, as it were.

 

The biggest hassle is that after lvl 35 just about every freaking mob on the planet seems to have a stun effect that drops my toggles.

Use flashfire and that will stun the bosses too. then when you jump in you just char the boss to death. be sure to put the lockdown proc in the cloud and bosses will be held too.