I can play City of Heroes blindfolded. With my forehead.

[SmokinIndo]

I'm sure there are lots of people that play this game for the power fantasy. That's fine. They have the option to solo everything at -1 with bosses as lieutenants and AVs as EBs. For the rest of us, I don't think I'm alone when I say that with set bonuses and incarnates, this game is easy AF.... and it's boring. The game is losing population, and I think it has to do with the fact that there's no challenge left.

All this talk about buffing ATs is silly. Even the most gimped build can solo everything at +4/x8. We've got videos of people soloing iTrials. Something is fundamentally broken here. Most MMOs make leveling a brain dead slog, and save the fun and challenging content for endgame. City of Heroes has the opposite problem. Leveling is actually decently hard and rewarding, since you're usually poor, don't have IOs, and certainly don't have incarnate powers. You rely on SOs, and having them drop is an amazing feeling. But once you hit 50 and you get those late-game buffs, your character steamrolls everything. There is no option for challenging content past 50. Incarnate trials are a joke. I've never had an iTrial fail on me.

Why give a fuck about challenging content? Because without it, there's no point in teaming. Mobs die so fast as a group, I can just stand by the door and nobody will notice. Controllers don't have to activate a single power, and why should you? When discussing builds for my controller, I had someone tell me "The best control is damage. They can't hurt you if they're dead." He's absolutely right. Controllers have no purpose on teams. Neither do defenders or corrupters. The only thing that matters is damage. Pure damage carries teams in this game. Everything else is irrelevant. You don't need healers, buffers/debuffers, or controllers.

I would love to see a new difficulty that increases enemy levels to +8, and there needs to be incentive to play at that level. Give all new badges for defeating enemies, taking damage, healing, ect. at +8 difficulty.

As far as my character "feeling" powerful, the current EZmode makes my character feel weak and insignificant on my team. I would feel way more powerful if I knew that my active healing was keeping my team from wiping, or if my holds were actually keeping the team from taking damage. Right now, I feel weak being a healer on a team that doesn't need to be healed.

My Earth/Nature controller solos missions at +2/x8. That's pretty broken. Earth is the lowest-tier controller primary in terms of damage. And this is the AT that doesn't have to do anything when she's on a team, since mobs are wiped before I even lay down my control field. I don't have to spam heals, the team barely even notices when I drop Overgrowth.

The only way to appreciate what I offer my team is by soloing. At least my animated stone supports my heal and buffing capability.

 

EDIT: Some quick fixes for the difficulty.  I'd start with taking away attunement. Make it so that playing on a lower level team would actually take away set bonuses. Also give task forces the option to play without IOs for a special reward. Badges or titles would be a really good incentive. Doing task forces in that challenge mode would require players to switch to a build with only SOs. Maybe an even greater challenge mode would require players to switch to a build with only TOs, for even cooler badges/titles. I'm not a game developer, but these sound like easy ideas to implement, with good incentives for the player.

Edited January 24, 2020 by SmokinIndo

[Leogunner]

There's always 2 sides though. Those that look to feel powerful you say should lower their difficulty and those that argue if you want challenge, you should use TO enhancements. 

 

Frankly, both are short sighted suggestions and striving for something in between us the goal. 

[Haijinx]

Pretty sure you can't navigate the maps without looking at the screen and using only your forehead to push the W key.

[Vanden]

2 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Pretty sure you can't navigate the maps without looking at the screen and using only your forehead to push the W key.

It’s probably because he made a slightly different claim on Reddit.

[SmokinIndo]

9 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

 if you want challenge, you should use TO enhancements. 

This is dumb. It doesn't matter if 7/8 team members have nothing but TO enhancements. If one person on the team has incarnates/set bonuses, then they're going to stomp the whole map. The rest of the team can wait by the map door. If I could find a dedicated team that to play with, who agrees to only use TO enhancements, then I'd be all for it. But this an unrealistic expectation. Far less unrealistic than someone turning their difficulty all the way down so they can give have their power fantasy.

Edited January 23, 2020 by SmokinIndo

[Bossk_Hogg]

3 minutes ago, SmokinIndo said:

This is dumb. It doesn't matter if 7/8 team members have nothing but TO enhancements. If one person on the team has incarnates/set bonuses, then they're going to stomp the whole map. The rest of the team can wait by the map door. If I could find a dedicated team that to play with, who agrees to only use TO enhancements, then I'd be all for it. But this an unrealistic expectation. Far less unrealistic than someone turning their difficulty all the way down so they can give have their power fantasy.

Maybe this game isn't for you Captain Tryhard? The Jack Emmert drudgery dream of 3 minions challenging 1 hero was never a reality. 

[Outrider_01]

36 minutes ago, SmokinIndo said:

For the rest of us, I don't think I'm alone when I say that with set bonuses and incarnates, this game is easy AF.... and it's boring.

So.....make friends, group together, and run with SOs?

 

Its like, you complain but can't gimp yourself for a challenge.  You feel like someone else has to do it for you.

 

My rad/fire farmer, is sitting at 50 +2 vet with 1500 incarnate threads and 300 or 400? shards.  Haven't bothered to incarnate yet, gonna make another one that looks more fun.  Gimped farmer, still works on +4/8 solo with only a really crappy IO build I screwed up.  I mean, it is slow but it works and not even really optimized.  Now, SO with no incarnate...that would be a challenge as core mechanics for NPC baddies hasn't change; just the players and their abilities.

[SwitchFade]

45 minutes ago, SmokinIndo said:

I'm sure there are lots of people that play this game for the power fantasy. That's fine. They have the option to solo everything at -1 with bosses as lieutenants and AVs as EBs. For the rest of us, I don't think I'm alone when I say that with set bonuses and incarnates, this game is easy AF.... and it's boring. The game is losing population, and I think it has to do with the fact that there's no challenge left.

All this talk about buffing ATs is silly. Even the most gimped build can solo everything at +4/x8. We've got videos of people soloing iTrials. Something is fundamentally broken here. Most MMOs make leveling a brain dead slog, and save the fun and challenging content for endgame. City of Heroes has the opposite problem. Leveling is actually decently hard and rewarding, since you're usually poor, don't have IOs, and certainly don't have incarnate powers. You rely on SOs, and having them drop is an amazing feeling. But once you hit 50 and you get those late-game buffs, your character steamrolls everything. There is no option for challenging content past 50. Incarnate trials are a joke. I've never had an iTrial fail on me.

Why give a fuck about challenging content? Because without it, there's no point in teaming. Mobs die so fast as a group, I can just stand by the door and nobody will notice. Controllers don't have to activate a single power, and why should you? When discussing builds for my controller, I had someone tell me "The best control is damage. They can't hurt you if they're dead." He's absolutely right. Controllers have no purpose on teams. Neither do defenders or corrupters. The only thing that matters is damage. Pure damage carries teams in this game. Everything else is irrelevant. You don't need healers, buffers/debuffers, or controllers.

I would love to see a new difficulty that increases enemy levels to +8, and there needs to be incentive to play at that level. Give all new badges for defeating enemies, taking damage, healing, ect. at +8 difficulty.

As far as my character "feeling" powerful, the current EZmode makes my character feel weak and insignificant on my team. I would feel way more powerful if I knew that my active healing was keeping my team from wiping, or if my holds were actually keeping the team from taking damage. Right now, I feel weak being a healer on a team that doesn't need to be healed.

My Earth/Nature controller solos missions at +2/x8. That's pretty broken. Earth is the lowest-tier controller primary in terms of damage. And this is the AT that doesn't have to do anything when she's on a team, since mobs are wiped before I even lay down my control field. I don't have to spam heals, the team barely even notices when I drop Overgrowth.

The only way to appreciate what I offer my team is by soloing. At least my animated stone supports my heal and buffing capability.

Hmm. I'm unsure where exactly to go, other than direct you to "search-fu" the plethora of other threads about difficulty. Therein you will find a wealth of information regarding both side of this topic and help enlighten you as to how to enjoy the game and make it more difficult.

 

And thus, I must...

 

jranger this.

[Haijinx]

31 minutes ago, Vanden said:

It’s probably because he made a slightly different claim on Reddit.

Curiousity led me to go find this.

 

It suggests he knows his keyboard a lot better than most people. 

 

 

[Nightmarer 2]

Well, this game certainly works for me as it is, for more challenge, I am sure there are other MMOs more oriented to that, although OPs claim happens in pretty much MMO, when endgame raiding and dungeons are not a challenge anymore, people complain in forums until new challenging raids and dungeons are added ad nauseam, while everyone else is asking for MMOs who cater for the fabled "casual player" whom apparently is 90% of players and all they want is being able to get some progress by logging 1 hour a day, go figure.

 

I guess complaining is the natural way of things, OP complains here becuae lack of challenge and in more challenging MMOs, people complain because they are unable to get any meaningful progress in the limited gamkng time they have *sigh*

 

[Super Atom]

1 hour ago, SmokinIndo said:

I'm sure there are lots of people that play this game for the power fantasy. That's fine. They have the option to solo everything at -1 with bosses as lieutenants and AVs as EBs. For the rest of us, I don't think I'm alone when I say that with set bonuses and incarnates, this game is easy AF.... and it's boring. The game is losing population, and I think it has to do with the fact that there's no challenge left.

All this talk about buffing ATs is silly. Even the most gimped build can solo everything at +4/x8. We've got videos of people soloing iTrials. Something is fundamentally broken here. Most MMOs make leveling a brain dead slog, and save the fun and challenging content for endgame. City of Heroes has the opposite problem. Leveling is actually decently hard and rewarding, since you're usually poor, don't have IOs, and certainly don't have incarnate powers. You rely on SOs, and having them drop is an amazing feeling. But once you hit 50 and you get those late-game buffs, your character steamrolls everything. There is no option for challenging content past 50. Incarnate trials are a joke. I've never had an iTrial fail on me.

Why give a fuck about challenging content? Because without it, there's no point in teaming. Mobs die so fast as a group, I can just stand by the door and nobody will notice. Controllers don't have to activate a single power, and why should you? When discussing builds for my controller, I had someone tell me "The best control is damage. They can't hurt you if they're dead." He's absolutely right. Controllers have no purpose on teams. Neither do defenders or corrupters. The only thing that matters is damage. Pure damage carries teams in this game. Everything else is irrelevant. You don't need healers, buffers/debuffers, or controllers.

I would love to see a new difficulty that increases enemy levels to +8, and there needs to be incentive to play at that level. Give all new badges for defeating enemies, taking damage, healing, ect. at +8 difficulty.

As far as my character "feeling" powerful, the current EZmode makes my character feel weak and insignificant on my team. I would feel way more powerful if I knew that my active healing was keeping my team from wiping, or if my holds were actually keeping the team from taking damage. Right now, I feel weak being a healer on a team that doesn't need to be healed.

My Earth/Nature controller solos missions at +2/x8. That's pretty broken. Earth is the lowest-tier controller primary in terms of damage. And this is the AT that doesn't have to do anything when she's on a team, since mobs are wiped before I even lay down my control field. I don't have to spam heals, the team barely even notices when I drop Overgrowth.

The only way to appreciate what I offer my team is by soloing. At least my animated stone supports my heal and buffing capability.

City of Heroes has always been a casual MMO. I'm all for the option to keep going higher but i guess thats what happens when an MMO shuts down in the middle of something resembling an end game being put into play. End game has never been CoH's strong suit, the game has always been more alt-centered and to be honest its one of city of heroes charming elements. I'm not sure what they could do other than to just keep raising how high you can set things. Aggro cap is never gonna change so just throw higher than x8 out of the window. Maybe if they made more enemy groups like the awakened in future content that could be cool.

 

You could always do oro arcs with "enemies are buffed" or "no enhancements" etc to increase difficulty. The options are there, you're just not using them i guess?

Edited January 23, 2020 by Super Atom

[SmokinIndo]

4 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

City of Heroes has always been a casual MMO. I'm all for the option to keep going higher but i guess thats what happens when an MMO shuts down in the middle of something resembling an end game being put into play. End game has never been CoH's strong suit, the game has always been more alt-centered and to be honest its one of city of heroes charming elements. I'm not sure what they could do other than to just keep raising how high you can set things. Aggro cap is never gonna change so just throw higher than x8 out of the window. Maybe if they made more enemy groups like the awakened in future content that could be cool.

I don't think is true at all, at least not before issue 9 when IOs were introduced. CoH used to be a challenging experience. Debt was extremely crippling to XP gain. You had to walk everywhere before level 14. You actually needed to invest in the fitness pool. TFs/SFs took hours to finish. The LRSF was such a rare achievement, and people wore Archvillain as a badge of honor.

[Super Atom]

3 minutes ago, SmokinIndo said:

I don't think is true at all, at least not before issue 9 when IOs were introduced. CoH used to be a challenging experience. Debt was extremely crippling to XP gain. You had to walk everywhere before level 14. You actually needed to invest in the fitness pool. TFs/SFs took hours to finish. The LRSF was such a rare achievement, and people wore Archvillain as a badge of honor.

idk what server you played on, but LRSF was hard for like week 1 until everything was figured out lol. CoH was never overly difficult, characters were dumb powerful pre-ED some argue even more so than now. One AT use to herd entire maps, thats hardly any different from now.

[SmokinIndo]

1 hour ago, Outrider_01 said:

So.....make friends, group together, and run with SOs?

 

Its like, you complain but can't gimp yourself for a challenge.  You feel like someone else has to do it for you.

 

My rad/fire farmer, is sitting at 50 +2 vet with 1500 incarnate threads and 300 or 400? shards.  Haven't bothered to incarnate yet, gonna make another one that looks more fun.  Gimped farmer, still works on +4/8 solo with only a really crappy IO build I screwed up.  I mean, it is slow but it works and not even really optimized.  Now, SO with no incarnate...that would be a challenge as core mechanics for NPC baddies hasn't change; just the players and their abilities.

I already do this. I solo mobs at +2/x8, which gives me at least some semblance of a challenge. At least I can buff my animated stone and have it actually matter.

 

The problem with playing with SOs is that people actually put time and energy into their builds. Asking them to throw it away is an enormous waste of effort. At least if there was a more challenging difficulty, people's builds and incarnate powers could actually count for something. It'll be hard with incarnates and IOs. Without them, you wouldn't stand a chance.

 

[BrandX]

I seriously doubt you're taking on AVs and maps at 4/8 with just normal IOs/SOs.

 

Sure, I was able to solo some normal missions on my Elec/Storm Troller (didn't try  at 2/8) but it was slooooow.  😛  Nothing compared to my scrappers for instance.

 

So, really, you're building up to take ont he 4/8 AV maps, and even then, you'd have to be pretty specific builds to be able to pull off the DPS needed for the +4 AV.

 

If people aren't finding challenge, it's likely because they're playing their AE map, that is setup to let them be the best at that map, or they're not actually playing the game.  

[SmokinIndo]

25 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

idk what server you played on, but LRSF was hard for like week 1 until everything was figured out lol. CoH was never overly difficult, characters were dumb powerful pre-ED some argue even more so than now. One AT use to herd entire maps, thats hardly any different from now.

I played the LRSF with a group of people who weren't level 50 and we didn't have IOs. We actually failed. I think your comments about CoH always being easy is a gross exaggeration. It was far more challenging than what it is currently. Even if the LRSF was figured out after a week, it still required a well-built team to finish it. Granite tanks used to herd entire maps, but they needed SB to do it. Support classes were still useful. They aren't useful anymore. They're expendable, which actually makes the classes feel weak, contrary to wanting to be powerful.

 

I also remember when teams weren't automatically sidekicked to the team leader. If you were three levels below the mission difficulty and you didn't have a mentor, you were shit out of luck.

Edited January 24, 2020 by SmokinIndo

[Illy]

I am with the OP. The game is so easy that entire archetypes are actually superfluous. Defenders and controllers really are not needed. A tank and a bunch of blasters will get you through pretty much anything. 

 

Progression has been completely debased as well, with prestige non-existent and superbases, which used to feel like an accomplishment, are now handed to people. To build a character's enhancements is also far too easy. 

 

I would like at least the option to have some vastly increased difficulty. 

 

Predictably, the prevailing suggestion in this thread is to gimp yourself. Just l-o-l. Meta-gaming completely ruins immersion. By suggesting that the type of player who prefers a challenge should gimp his or herself, and that this should be sufficient to satisfy that player, you render by this argument any computer game completely impervious to any criticism regarding its difficulty level. "Just blindfold  yourself" is in fact an attempt to compensate for a poorly optimized game and an almost farcical reaction. I can't believe people still use this line of reasoning. 

 

Fact: difficulty is, has always been, and will always be, a legitimate object of criticism in the gaming industry. 

[SmokinIndo]

8 minutes ago, BrandX said:

I seriously doubt you're taking on AVs and maps at 4/8 with just normal IOs/SOs.

 

Not just SOs. I use normal IOs/incarnate powers to solo missions. It's a reasonable challenge, but my point is that if I can do it solo, then playing with a team is trivial.

Edited January 24, 2020 by SmokinIndo

[Super Atom]

6 minutes ago, SmokinIndo said:

I played the LRSF with a group of people who weren't level 50 and we didn't have IOs. We actually failed. I think your comments about CoH always being easy is a gross exaggeration. It was far more challenging than what it is currently. Even if the LRSF was figured out after a week, it still required a well-built team to finish it. Granite tanks used to herd entire maps, but they needed SB to do it. Support classes were still useful. They aren't useful anymore.

 

I also remember when teams weren't automatically sidekicked to the team leader. If you were three levels below the mission difficulty and you didn't have a mentor, you were shit out of luck.

I never said coh wasn't easier now than before. I just said it's always been easy. It may not have been easy to you, but there has always been people/groups pushing what others thought impossible. Smaller and smaller teams doing hamidon faster and faster for example. Power creep is a common issue in MMO's and unfortunately coh was shut down before it could address it. I don't know if you think the HC team is magical and can just flip switches to increase difficulty or what but asking for an increased difficulty is more challenging than you think unless you literally only want +8. I've got bad news for you though, you'd probably die instantly because of how CoH works. You'd con grey

[SmokinIndo]

12 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

I never said coh wasn't easier now than before. I just said it's always been easy. It may not have been easy to you, but there has always been people/groups pushing what others thought impossible. Smaller and smaller teams doing hamidon faster and faster for example. Power creep is a common issue in MMO's and unfortunately coh was shut down before it could address it. I don't know if you think the HC team is magical and can just flip switches to increase difficulty or what but asking for an increased difficulty is more challenging than you think unless you literally only want +8. I've got bad news for you though, you'd probably die instantly because of how CoH works. You'd con grey

I'd start with taking away attunement. Make it so that playing on a lower level team would actually take away set bonuses. Also give task forces the option to play without IOs for a special reward. Badges or titles would be a really good incentive. Doing task forces in that challenge mode would require players to switch to a build with only SOs. Maybe an even greater challenge mode would require players to switch to a build with only TOs, for even cooler badges/titles. I'm not a game developer, but these sound like easy ideas to implement, with good incentives for the player.

Edited January 24, 2020 by SmokinIndo

[Infinitum]

 

Didnt think id get to post this again so soon.

[SmokinIndo]

28 minutes ago, Illy said:

I am with the OP. The game is so easy that entire archetypes are actually superfluous. Defenders and controllers really are not needed. A tank and a bunch of blasters will get you through pretty much anything.

This is the biggest concern for me. People who are against increasing the difficulty are playing damage dealers. Anyone who plays a support class knows that support is pointless on teams. Even tanks aren't needed as most characters can cap defense with set bonuses. You don't need to hold aggro against enemies that are dead.

 

As a /nature controller, my biggest contribution is increasing the speed something dies from .5 seconds to .4 seconds. It does a huge disservice for support players, and actually makes the class feel WEAK, as opposed making characters feel powerful.

Edited January 24, 2020 by SmokinIndo

[SmokinIndo]

8 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

 

Didnt think id get to post this again so soon.

I'm one of the people playing, and I'm not having fun. If constructive criticism  isn't your thing, then continue playing a broken game that's soon to have zero players.

Edited January 24, 2020 by SmokinIndo

[Alchemystic]

Troll post, move along folks.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Tyrannical

[Illy]

1 minute ago, SmokinIndo said:

This is the biggest concern for me. People who are against increasing the difficulty are playing damage dealers. Anyone who plays a support class knows that support is pointless on teams. Even tanks aren't needed as most characters can cap defense with set bonuses. You don't need to hold aggro against enemies that are dead.

 

As a /nature controller, my biggest contribution is increasing the speed something dies from .5 seconds to .4 seconds. It does a huge disservice for support players, and actually makes the class feel WEAK, as opposed making characters feel powerful.

Stop making so much sense, it bothers people apparently 😛