Mastermind Pet Customization

[PennZephre]

Any progress in allowing customization of MM pets? This would be a fun feature.

[VileTerror]

Sort of.  Phantom Army is a good tech demo of the possibility of this coming to pass for Masterminds.

However, there are still technical hurdles in the way, and (according to a few people) some morality/liability concerns that need to be addressed.

 

There is no official word, however, other than a GM acknowledging that Henchpet customization is one of the wider community's number-one requests.

[Seigmoraig]

I can see why they would not let us do entire costumes for these guys but it would be nice to be able to change the colour schemes at least

[Eidolor]

I’d be thrilled to swap one pools models with another. My necro needs a lich in demon prince’s skin

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Seigmoraig said:

I can see why they would not let us do entire costumes for these guys but it would be nice to be able to change the colour schemes at least

I don't.  Anything that would get you in trouble for doing with a player costume would/should carry over to things you might do with your summoned pets, so I don't see an issue here...

[VileTerror]

It's an often debated matter.  I think the underlying concern is valid, if misplaced.  People are capable of being pretty shitty, especially when they cross the line because they think "it's funny."  And then assuming that others are spoiling that "fun" when the line-cross gets called out.  But, as I say time and again whenever this subject comes up, I'm of the opinion that the merits outweigh the risk.  The meaningful, positive, and socially-acceptable content which people could express with Henchpet customization is immense!  I think we should all focus on that part, rather than trying to undermine the legitimate concerns some players have about real toxicity issues.

 

If people are going to abuse something in-game, we need to plan for that and address it accordingly.  But we can't let the fear of that abuse prevent the good stuff from coming forth.

[Eidolor]

It may be possible to mod custom henchies

[Seigmoraig]

44 minutes ago, biostem said:

I don't. 

I could make a Mastermind dressed as a pimp and have my pets be dressed like hookers.

I could make my Mastermind dressed like a priest and have my pets dressed like little boys

and so on

Edited February 14, 2020 by Seigmoraig

[VileTerror]

Yes, Seigmoraig.  But you could also do that in AE, or anywhere with a couple of friends.   It's not a unique problem to Mastermind Henchpets.  At all.

[Seigmoraig]

Just now, VileTerror said:

Yes, Seigmoraig.  But you could also do that in AE, or anywhere with a couple of friends.   It's not a unique problem to Mastermind Henchpets.  At all.

AE a mostly secluded area of the game where you have to know which maps are which to see the full breadth of positive and not so positive content. I would assume 99% of the people who do AE do fire/sl farm maps and never look at the rest of the content. 

Doing that joke with a couple friends needs coordination with said friends.

 

If it was so easy to get a bunch of friends agree to do a tasteless joke like this you would be seeing it, and we are not because it's just not as simple as rolling a character and modifying a bunch of costumes. Yeah it's possible but it's not EASY that's the kicker here

[biostem]

10 minutes ago, Seigmoraig said:

I could make a Mastermind dressed as a pimp and have my pets be dressed like hookers.

I could make my Mastermind dressed like a priest and have my pets dressed like little boys

and so on

I guess you missed the part where I said:  " Anything that would get you in trouble for doing with a player costume would/should carry over to things you might do with your summoned pets, so I don't see an issue here... "

[Seigmoraig]

Just now, biostem said:

  " Anything that would get you in trouble for doing with a player costume would/should carry over to things you might do with your summoned pets, so I don't see an issue here... "

The issue is that the devs and mods on Homecoming are all unpaid volunteers that have better things to do than play costume police. This would increase their workload significantly if they had to deal with people being shitty because they allowed a new level of degrading costume options in the henchmen customization. I would much rather the devs work on actual improvements to the game than open this Pandora's box

[VileTerror]

"Significantly" is conjecture.  It -might- do that, but since it hasn't happened, we have nothing to really draw from as an example.

EXCEPT Phantom Army customization.

So . . . how many reports of abuse has that feature prompted?  It can be the meter stick to see just how far the cause for concern is justified.

Let's give it some time, and then ask the GMs and Devs if there had been a meaningful impact to their workloads due to pandora's box having the lid open a smidge earlier this month.

[Bossk_Hogg]

1 hour ago, Seigmoraig said:

I could make a Mastermind dressed as a pimp and have my pets be dressed like hookers.

I could make my Mastermind dressed like a priest and have my pets dressed like little boys

and so on

I can multibox and do that now. You don't deny a school art supplies because some kid will draw boobs. That's slippery slope fearmongering. 

[Seigmoraig]

39 minutes ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

I can multibox and do that now.

Like I said before, I never said this wasn't already doable, I said it needs significantly more work to do than just rolling a character and modifying costumes on it.

 

 

1 hour ago, VileTerror said:

EXCEPT Phantom Army customization.

So . . . how many reports of abuse has that feature prompted?

Phantom army are clones of yourself, not at all what I was describing at all.

Seriously though guys at this point you are just being obtuse for the heck of it. It's not hard to understand why the devs would not want to waste their free time moderating costumes more than they already are and dealing with unnecessary tickets and complaints because you want to be able to have a minor cosmetic feature.
It's not going to happen guys

[Sakura Tenshi]

Personally, my other concern about mastermind customization is getting the look right and such.

 

Robotics has some pretty big changes like added missile racks, they have attack animations human players don’t really have, and so on. I don’t want to put all the work into custom robots only for their animations to just not work with the upgrades, nevermind a big joy of leveling MM pets is watching their appearances progress with each upgrade (and why demons, zombies, and beasts honestly suck if you ask me)

 

Speaking of beasts and demons: what do for customizing them? They use unique skeletons (actually so do robots) and for beasts, the selection of quadruped models is limited, you’d have to reanimate the powers to not end up with things psychically smacking enemies while stuck in a t-pose

 

edit: at the end of the day, I feel like the only decent way to customize MM pets would just be having some premade options to select from so you can pick from regular street gang thugs, mobster type thugs, and maybe syndicate/agents. This allows for animations and upgrades to line up, and I guess avoid controversy. That said I wouldn’t mind female pets, I do know a number of female mms who would like to run an actual girl posse.

 

additional edit: actually I do see that merits can outweigh the  risks. We have female lore pets we can customize to not look ghostly (shoot, seers are pretty damn scandalous without player input: they’re girls who have been mentally abused and locked into sci-fi bondage gear by a woman who insists everyone calls her mommy and dresses... well we’ve seen how she’s dresses) and with phantom army, you can switch costumes then switch back to make them “different” people.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Sakura Tenshi

[VileTerror]

As a technical limitation, yeah, it would kind of suck if only Gang, Mercs, Ninjas, and maybe Necro got to customize, and getting Demons, Robots, and Beasts up to that level would pose a big hurdle.  I still think it's worth putting in the effort, given this is exactly the sort of game feature which defines the core purpose of City of Heroes:  Customization of personal creations.

[dangeraaron10]

Considering some pets would be way more customizable than others (like letting human henchman get full access to the creator), I like the idea of hench customization being able to choose between 3 or 4 looks in Power Customization like Phantom Army.  Keeps things balanced so Beasts, Bots, and Demons dont get screwed but also avoids the worry about inappropriate henchmen.  Ideal.

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by dangeraaron10

[biostem]

3 hours ago, Seigmoraig said:

The issue is that the devs and mods on Homecoming are all unpaid volunteers that have better things to do than play costume police. This would increase their workload significantly if they had to deal with people being shitty because they allowed a new level of degrading costume options in the henchmen customization. I would much rather the devs work on actual improvements to the game than open this Pandora's box

And people can make racist, sexist, etc comments in zone or any of the other chat channels, yet we don't have a major issue with that now.  That is much easier to do, and yet we aren't facing some epidemic.  If we don't have to worry about someone making a female character abusing her male pets, (or a homosexual male doing the same thing), then any other such hypothesis about being able to make female pets is mere conjecture with no evidentiary backing...

Edited February 15, 2020 by biostem

[Troo]

Note: Only one power in the illusion set allows the copy costume function. 

[biostem]

8 minutes ago, Troo said:

Note: Only one power in the illusion set allows the copy costume function. 

Yes, and with not too much work, you can set it to use a different body type, summon the illusions, then switch back to whatever other costume/body type you want...

[oedipus_tex]

I don't understand why customizable pets would require more costume policing than the existing costume creator.

 

It also doesn't bother me if only some sets can be customized. They already spent the time to create customizable Phantom Armies, and IMO it's an incredibly cool feature.

[MTeague]

I'd love to have full customization.  I hope we get it. 

but I wouldn't turn down the ability to recolor the existing minions, or be able to do power customization on them. 

 

Maybe I want a BLUE Oni who's powers LOOK like Ice, even if under-the-hook they all still function 100% identially to the existing fire powers.

[Troo]

@oedipus_tex I think it's an awesome feature as well.

 

While you may be okay with only some sets being customization, we can already see the piling on of more, MORE. Examples: Full Customization or All pets should allow customization and Powers too.

[VileTerror]

Well . . . again, using the meter stick of Phantom Army, other than people like myself saying "that's awesome, and brings us one step closer to Henchpet Customization" . . . is anyone vocally upset that Illusion Control got the cool new feature, while all other Control Sets were left without?  

I know my own experience in that department is simply anecdotal, since I can't see everything, but I'd like to know from others:  Have you anything to report on that front?  Or has every mention of Phantom Army in the community thus far been a matter of "Yes, please-and-thank-you!" and "that's a step in the right direction, I'm looking forward to more in the future!"  

 

Naturally, sure.  If we keep taking small steps of progress, doing one Set / Pet at a time, people will be anxious about when/if their favourite will get the treatment.  But that is also literally exactly what's going on with -everything- anyway.  Tankers got attention as a whole Archetype recently, and some people are anxious about their favourite Archetypes (not) being next.  It's kind of the nature of the beasty.  Even when things were for-profit, the Legacy Devs still had to do things in steps, generally.

 

With all that in mind . . . my earlier support of Sakura's concern is partially rescinded.  It'll definitely still suck if Beasts, Demons, and Robots don't get anything . . . but that's also kiiind of not a big deal or reasonable limiting factor for the other Sets, since EVERY upgrade and update is a progressive matter of steps over time.