Discussion about Leadership for Defenders

[Peacemoon]

What is the general consensus with leadership for Defenders?

 

Naturally, Defenders make the best leaders of a team due to the type of player that plays them, and this is reflected in the huge buffs they get from it Defenders get the best buffs from leadership, so in my mind its hard to turn these powers down. 

 

Manouvers seems like a dead cert, because not only for the great +DEF but also the chance to slot Luck's +Recharge.

What are the views on Assault and Tactics though, more nuanced?

 

What about powers such as Vengeance and Victory Rush? 

 

Finally, what sort of levels is it best to take leadership at? I was tempted to take a lot of them very early...

 

**Edit: some numbers courtesy of https://cityofheroes.fandom.com/wiki/Leadership

Shows how great these powers are, particularly for Defenders.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Peacemoon

[Without_Pause]

Maneuvers is good for your own personal attempt at increasing/capping defense. I think it is of lower desire on a team level in the end game phase since a number of players have their own defense so high as well. Assault is good by default if you have room for a power needing a single slot. I think in the day and age of IO sets, it losses out a little bit. I would rather dump it for Hasten. Tactics with +4 content being such a norm works for me. I haven't tried the others as I don't find a lot of builds open enough to take three Leadership powers. Once I grab from primary, secondary, travel, fighting, epic, and Maneuvers as a template, there's very little room for anything else.

[Mr. Vee]

I end up with maneuvers and tactics on most of my toons nowadays and try to get venge too. Defenders i'd always take those three and assault too if possible due to the higher modifiers. Never tried victory rush.

[Call Me Awesome]

Really in my opinion Defenders get so much out of the pool you really ought to grab the big three, Assault/Tactics/Maneuvers.  I fit them into every Defender I've ever played, and most Controllers as well.

[Erydanus]

They're nice powers but my primary has nice powers too. In order to take all these Leadership powers one often has to sacrifice attacks and I'm not interested in being a walking leadership beacon. My attacks may not be nearly as powerful as damage focused teammates but they typically have valuable incremental buffs.

 

Also, more importantly, I like to shoot bad guys.

 

I think they are definitely valid options and in different play situations have greater or lesser value.

[Frosticus]

Tactics is what I'm after. That plus kismet is about 25% tohit buff. Couple acc bonuses from sets and you can now forgo acc slotting in things, or drastically reduce it.

 

Plus, teams don't wipe often these days, but when they do it is almost always because of arachnos blindness.

[Redlynne]

8 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

Finally, what sort of levels is it best to take leadership at? I was tempted to take a lot of them very early...

Starting in the 20s and up, since those are the first levels where you aren't competing with primary/secondary power picks.

8 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

What is the general consensus with leadership for Defenders?

If you're going to take Maneuvers, you really want to 6 slot it.  In my opinion there are 2 best 6-slottings for Maneuvers, depending on the "needs" of the rest of your build.

---

Red Fortune+

1. Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
2. Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
3. Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
4. Red Fortune - Defense
5. Red Fortune - Endurance
6. Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Set Bonuses

• 1.5% Resistance(Smashing,Lethal), MezResist(Immobilized) 2.5%, MezResist(Held) 2.5%, MezResist(Stunned) 2.5%, MezResist(Sleep) 2.5%, MezResist(Terrorized) 2.5%, MezResist(Confused) 2.5%
• 1.5% Resistance(Fire,Cold), MezResist(Immobilized) 2.5%, MezResist(Held) 2.5%, MezResist(Stunned) 2.5%, MezResist(Sleep) 2.5%, MezResist(Terrorized) 2.5%, MezResist(Confused) 2.5%
• 2% DamageBuff(All)
• 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)

---

Reactive Defenses

1. Reactive Defenses - Defense
2. Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance
3. Reactive Defenses - Endurance/RechargeTime
4. Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime
5. Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime
6. Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage

Set Bonuses

• 1.5% Resistance(Smashing,Lethal), MezResist(Immobilized) 2.5%, MezResist(Held) 2.5%, MezResist(Stunned) 2.5%, MezResist(Sleep) 2.5%, MezResist(Terrorized) 2.5%, MezResist(Confused) 2.5%
• 20.08 HP (1.87%) HitPoints
• 3% Resistance(Fire,Cold), MezResist(Immobilized) 5%, MezResist(Held) 5%, MezResist(Stunned) 5%, MezResist(Sleep) 5%, MezResist(Terrorized) 5%, MezResist(Confused) 5%
• 3.75% Enhancement(EnduranceDiscount)
• 8.75% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• Scaling Resistance(All)

---

The Red Fortune+ option features a slightly higher recharge set bonus (+12.5% vs 8.75%) which in the larger scheme of things is actually somewhat trivial (a +3.75% difference) ... while the Reactive Defenses option features a global endurance discount instead of a global damage buff, along with scaling resistances (courtesy of the proc).  Reactive Defenses features a TINY amount of less defense buffing throughput (like a difference of about 0.2) compared to the Red Fortune+ option, which is usually so small you'd never notice it in actual gameplay.  In most cases, Maneuvers will have the "smallest" defense buffing potential, so I like to put Reactive Defenses into Maneuvers if I've got another defense toggle power to slot up with Red Fortune+ for a higher magnification of defense buffing potential.

 

 

 

Assault is a One Slot Wonder™ power.  Put an Endurance Reduction common IO into it and have done with it.  The damage buff is essentially permanently useful unless you're on a team that is damage capped (which usually isn't a perma condition).

 

 

 

Tactics is either a 6-slot with Gaussians power or a 1-slot with just the Gaussian's Build Up proc power.  Here's why:

On 9/1/2019 at 9:48 PM, Redlynne said:

Tactics (Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control 1PPM)

• 1 * ((15 / ( 1 + 0 / 100 )) + 1.718) / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 60 * (11 * 360 + 540) / 30,000))) = 6.5% (Pre-clamp: 3.60%) upon activation per teammate
• 1 x 10 / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 60 * (11 * 360 + 540) / 30,000))) = 6.5% (Pre-clamp: 2.15%) per ~10s per teammate
   
  • Team-1: 1 - (1 - 0.065)¹ = 06.5% chance to proc every 10 seconds
  • Team-2: 1 - (1 - 0.065)² = 12.5% chance to proc every 10 seconds
  • Team-3: 1 - (1 - 0.065)³ = 18.2% chance to proc every 10 seconds
  • Team-4: 1 - (1 - 0.065)⁴ = 23.5% chance to proc every 10 seconds
  • Team-5: 1 - (1 - 0.065)⁵ = 28.5% chance to proc every 10 seconds
  • Team-6: 1 - (1 - 0.065)⁶ = 33.1% chance to proc every 10 seconds
  • Team-7: 1 - (1 - 0.065)⁷ = 37.5% chance to proc every 10 seconds
  • Team-8: 1 - (1 - 0.065)⁸ = 41.5% chance to proc every 10 seconds
     
  • League-16: 1 - (1 - 0.065)¹⁶ = 65.8% chance to proc every 10 seconds
  • League-24: 1 - (1 - 0.065)²⁴ = 80.0% chance to proc every 10 seconds
  • League-32: 1 - (1 - 0.065)³² = 88.3% chance to proc every 10 seconds
  • League-34: 1 - (1 - 0.065)³⁴ = 89.8% chance to proc every 10 seconds
  • League-35: 1 - (1 - 0.065)³⁵ = 90.0% (90.4%) chance to proc every 10 seconds

Mind you, slotting Tactics with the Gaussian's Build Up proc is only "useful" to you while you're OFFending, as opposed to DEFending ... so if you're not attacking then the Build Up proc is largely wasted on you (and your build), since it only affects you.

 

 

 

Vengeance is useful as a One Slot Wonder™ power to put a Luck of the Gambler global recharge set IO into.

 

 

 

Victory Rush is ENTIRELY an optional power ... but if you've got a build with endurance management issues, consider picking up Victory Rush.

On 12/15/2019 at 12:31 PM, siolfir said:

For once, the in-game numbers are useful, though - the order, in increasing strength is:

• Underlings, turrets: +5% recovery, 2.5% endurance discount
• Minions: +10% recovery, 5% endurance discount
• Lieutenants: +30% recovery, 15% endurance discount
• Bosses: +60% recovery, +30% endurance discount
• Elite Bosses: +80% recovery, +40% endurance discount
• AVs/GMs: +100% recovery, +50% endurance discount

All of the buffs last for 2 minutes, and only the recovery portion is enhanceable.

Victory Rush has a 5 minute recharge time, meaning you get a 40% uptime on the power, and it's an AoE around the defeated $Target you use it on, so very much a team buff power.  Unlike Vengeance though, you only need the corpse of a Foe, not of a Teammate, to use Victory Rush.

 

---

 

Personally, I'm of the opinion that Defenders ought to take 9 primary powers, 9 secondary powers, 3 leadership toggles ... and then have 3 power picks left over for travel power(s) and other pools.

 

But that's just me ... 😎

[Mr. Vee]

I can't imagine ever having enough slots to 6-slot maneuvers. And if i had enough spare slots I'm sure I could find a better use for them elsewhere. My poison has lotg 7.5/Shield wall unique/shield wall Defense (50+5)/reactive defenses unique. that's in the yellow for defense on mids with my agility core. if i had another slot it'd be the d/e shield wall. if i only had 3 slots and the uniques were placed elsewhere i'd just d,d/e,7.5 lotg which is yellow without agility and red with. naturally ymmv.

[Doomguide2005]

Pretty much all my characters are looking to fit Assault and Tactics in the build and Frosticus pretty much nailed the why.  Up level foes, particularly +3 and up, get much easier to chew up when leadership is present.  If the team starts seeing stacked Assault and Tactics it can get vastly easier as in going from slog fest to hot knife thru butter easier.  With defenders it'll just take less stacking to achieve the same result.   There's a reason pretty much all the RO Networks defender SG's (and many of the other AT's as well) included a build requirement involving Leadership especially those created pre IO's.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Doomguide2005

[Redlynne]

12 hours ago, Redlynne said:

If you're going to take Maneuvers, you really want to 6 slot it.

*IF* ...

[Darkir]

5 hours ago, Veelectric Boogaloo said:

I can't imagine ever having enough slots to 6-slot maneuvers. And if i had enough spare slots I'm sure I could find a better use for them elsewhere. My poison has lotg 7.5/Shield wall unique/shield wall Defense (50+5)/reactive defenses unique. that's in the yellow for defense on mids with my agility core. if i had another slot it'd be the d/e shield wall. if i only had 3 slots and the uniques were placed elsewhere i'd just d,d/e,7.5 lotg which is yellow without agility and red with. naturally ymmv.

It really depends on the build. As you get more recharge, you usually end up with more slots because you can drop less desirable attacks and run a smoother attack chain. It also depends on how slot dependent your primary is.

 

Kinetics for example does not need any slots for the majority of it's powers. Something like Time only requires a few slots, but something like Dark requires more. 

 

6 slotting maneuvers with 5 red fortune and one 7.5% Lotg is very efficient for global recharge (about 2.4% per slot). The only thing more global recharge efficient than that is 3 slotting the defender/corruptor superior ATO set for 10% global recharge (about 3.33% per slot). 

 

In pre 50 level teams having maneuvers and tactics make a huge difference in the effectiveness of a team. Assault is nice to have, but tactics is far better for teams before everyone has their ACC and tohit buffs figured out from IOs. I'm of the mind that almost every character should take maneuvers, except for maybe super reflexes or something similarly decked out with defense powers.

[Redlynne]

14 hours ago, Darkir said:

except for maybe super reflexes or something similarly decked out with defense powers.

Actually, they're the ones that get helped the most by Maneuvers on teams.  Super Reflexes doesn't suffer from cascade failure due to defense debuffing, plenty of other defense protection scheme powersets do, so having a bit of extra "margin" for dealing with defense debuffs can go a long way for them.

[Doomguide2005]

My Claws/SR took Maneuvers.   I tend to turn it on for a couple reasons.  First when teaming and second if I see the graphics indicating my foes are using to hit buffs. (Longbow, Resistance etc.) Rarely if I think defdebuffs are piling up I might turn it on.  Seldom have I seen more than -3% or so defense lost usually smaller

[Darkir]

5 hours ago, Redlynne said:

Actually, they're the ones that get helped the most by Maneuvers on teams.  Super Reflexes doesn't suffer from cascade failure due to defense debuffing, plenty of other defense protection scheme powersets do, so having a bit of extra "margin" for dealing with defense debuffs can go a long way for them.

So I made a quick build without maneuvers on a SR scrapper, just to show the crazy defense it gets. This has 60+ melee def and 50+ ranged def with 192% recharge without an alpha. How would this benefit from maneuvers (honest question, do I not understand something?)?

 

 

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Radiation Melee
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Contaminated Strike -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Hct-Acc/Rchg(37), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Hct-Dam%(37)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(3), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(5), RedFrt-Def(7), RedFrt-EndRdx(9), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(48)
Level 2: Proton Sweep -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(3), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Obl-%Dam(36), Obl-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 4: Focused Senses -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(5), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(50)
Level 6: Agile -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(7)
Level 8: Radiation Siphon -- SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprCrtStr-Dmg/Rchg(9), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), SprCrtStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(34)
Level 10: Fusion -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(11), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(11), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(13), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(13), GssSynFr--Build%(15)
Level 12: Practiced Brawler -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Dodge -- RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(17), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(17), RedFrt-Def(19), RedFrt-EndRdx(19), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 18: Irradiated Ground -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(39), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(39), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Obl-%Dam(50)
Level 20: Quickness -- Run-I(A)
Level 22: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(23), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(23), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(25), GldArm-3defTpProc(27)
Level 24: Weave -- RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(25), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(27), RedFrt-Def(29), RedFrt-EndRdx(31), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(46)
Level 26: Devastating Blow -- SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(31), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(33)
Level 28: Lucky -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(29)
Level 30: Spirit Ward -- Prv-Absorb%(A)
Level 32: Atom Smasher -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Arm-Acc/Rchg(42), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Arm-Dam%(43)
Level 35: Evasion -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(36)
Level 38: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(39)
Level 41: Mystic Flight -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(42)
Level 44: Rune of Protection -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(45), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(45), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(50)
Level 47: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(43), Mrc-Rcvry+(43)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(46)
------------

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Edited March 11, 2020 by Darkir

[Mr. Vee]

It wouldn't really except for a few % for your teammates. SRs with all their auto/toggle defense powers get capped defense debuff resists. I guess if you managed to build an SR which is just right at the softcap it'd help but in that case weave would be a better option since you probably wanted tough anyway, and weave gives higher values.

[Redlynne]

1 hour ago, Veelectric Boogaloo said:

but in that case weave would be a better option since you probably wanted tough anyway, and weave gives higher values.

This fallacy again.

 

/em sigh

 

Weave is only better in a SOLO circumstance.

When in a duo, 2 characters with Maneuvers (who stick together and work as a team) break even versus 2 characters with Weave.

When in a team with Maneuvers on 3+ characters (who stick together and work as a team) ... Maneuvers is BETTER THAN Weave.

 

Why?

Because defense bonuses from Maneuvers can be stacked ... while Weave can't.

Weave is for selfish soloists.

Maneuvers is for team players.

 

 

 

So ... the break even point versus Weave is 2 PCs on a team with Maneuvers ... and when your PC has Maneuvers, you only need ONE other PC on the team with Maneuvers to give EVERYBODY "Weave-like" defense buff numbers on the team ... and it's a LOT easier to find 1 other PC with Maneuvers than it is to find 2 ...

[Doomguide2005]

1 hour ago, Redlynne said:

This fallacy again.

 

/em sigh

 

Weave is only better in a SOLO circumstance.

When in a duo, 2 characters with Maneuvers (who stick together and work as a team) break even versus 2 characters with Weave.

When in a team with Maneuvers on 3+ characters (who stick together and work as a team) ... Maneuvers is BETTER THAN Weave.

 

Why?

Because defense bonuses from Maneuvers can be stacked ... while Weave can't.

Weave is for selfish soloists.

Maneuvers is for team players.

 

 

 

So ... the break even point versus Weave is 2 PCs on a team with Maneuvers ... and when your PC has Maneuvers, you only need ONE other PC on the team with Maneuvers to give EVERYBODY "Weave-like" defense buff numbers on the team ... and it's a LOT easier to find 1 other PC with Maneuvers than it is to find 2 ...

While I agree with what your saying math-wise it may come down to choice of pool powers between Leadership or Fighting.  I'm going to guess you'd need roughly 3 other players (maybe 4 if they aren't defenders) rather than one to make up for being unable to slot the uniques and I think that is the underlying assumption made by Veelectric Boogaloo.  And my experience tends to indicate that while finding one more is reasonably likely three is much, much less so (unfortunately).

[Bastille Boy]

I take Maneuvers on all my toons, for selfish reasons. I solo all of my toons at least occasionally, including the support types, and I prefer to have at least one defense soft-capped without buffs from other players. I find it hard to do that without including Maneuvers in the build. It's nice to have an extra place to slot Luck of the Gambler.

 

I sometimes take Tactics, depending on what other powers I want in the build and whether I expect endurance issues. (Currently debating whether to give up the rez power for Tactics in my new ice-therm corruptor...)

 

I never take Assault. It's an endurance hog.

[Mr. Vee]

6 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

While I agree with what your saying math-wise it may come down to choice of pool powers between Leadership or Fighting.  I'm going to guess you'd need roughly 3 other players (maybe 4 if they aren't defenders) rather than one to make up for being unable to slot the uniques and I think that is the underlying assumption made by Veelectric Boogaloo.  And my experience tends to indicate that while finding one more is reasonably likely three is much, much less so (unfortunately).

you assume correctly.  and especially since we were specifically talking about SR i figured fighting would definitely take priority.

[Gulbasaur]

On 3/9/2020 at 5:28 PM, Peacemoon said:

What about powers such as Vengeance and Victory Rush? 

I take them both and use them both, basically whenever I can. Vengeance is a decent defence boost and if someone's dropped you probably need it. Victory Rush I tend to fire off a boss when it comes up. Neither of them really need slotting and both are situational but pretty powerful. If I've got spare slots then I quite often pick up Vengeance. 

[Doomguide2005]

Haven't yet used Victory Rush  but  just about all my defenders take Vengeance and drop the LotG +recharge in it.

[_NOPE_]

I ALWAYS take Assault. Always. And I pretty much never add any slots to it, I just add an endurance reduction to it. I usually take Maneuvers and three slot it for defense and endurance reduction (maximize with the least number of slots). The others I only bother taking if there's nothing else that I want at that level.

[Redlynne]

4 hours ago, The Philotic Knight said:

I usually take Maneuvers and three slot it for defense and endurance reduction (maximize with the least number of slots).

Or you could 2 slot with a pair of +2 HamiOs that affect Defense and Endurance Reduction, if you need to save a slot.

Alternatively, if you don't need set bonuses, you can do the pair of +2 HamiOs and add a Luck of the Gambler global recharge into the 3rd slot ...

[oOStaticOo]

I find myself usually 4 slotting Maneuvers with:

 

LotG Global Recharge

Kismet Def/End

Kismet Def/Rech

Kismet Def/End/Rech

 

Gives me a 1.5% End Recov and 2.25% S/L Res.  Most of the time this will help me to push the Hard-Cap of S/L Resistance and help with my Endurance issues as well.

 

 

[Frosticus]

On 3/11/2020 at 5:49 AM, Redlynne said:

This fallacy again.

 

/em sigh

 

Weave is only better in a SOLO circumstance.

When in a duo, 2 characters with Maneuvers (who stick together and work as a team) break even versus 2 characters with Weave.

When in a team with Maneuvers on 3+ characters (who stick together and work as a team) ... Maneuvers is BETTER THAN Weave.

 

Why?

Because defense bonuses from Maneuvers can be stacked ... while Weave can't.

Weave is for selfish soloists.

Maneuvers is for team players.

 

 

 

So ... the break even point versus Weave is 2 PCs on a team with Maneuvers ... and when your PC has Maneuvers, you only need ONE other PC on the team with Maneuvers to give EVERYBODY "Weave-like" defense buff numbers on the team ... and it's a LOT easier to find 1 other PC with Maneuvers than it is to find 2 ...

It would be interesting to see the stats on how many people take tough/weave vs maneuvers/tactics

 

You are right, but most people don't really seem to think about how they will play in a team, or what they will contribute to team success beyond dealing damage.

 

I"m always happy when I get on a team and see some leadership buffs stacking. It is a clear indication that the team will likely play well