Plant/Savage or Dark/Savage?

[Smites]

Hi there,

 

so I finally decided on playing a dominator again since the only other that i've had was a fire/ice back on live.

I really want to try out the Savage set and can't decide on the primary set.
Savage seems kinda melee oriented to me and the To Hit-Debuff probably helps with keeping one save, but I've seen great builds on both plant/savage and dark/savage domis and I really wanted to try out plant control someday.

Does anyone have experience on both of these sets and could tell which one of them better synergizes with the savage primary?
 

 

Many thanks in advance. ^_^

[Coyote]

I have done both, but only the Plant so far to 50. Both play very well, and both have excellent strengths that pair up with Savage.

 

Plant is a "fire and forget" primary, where you use pet summons that don't need much reapplying, and Seeds usually once at the start of the fight. After that, you're free to Facerip(tm), which frees Savage up nicely to attack, attack, teleport attack, attack, more attack, etc. It's a very strong scrappery style for going all-out aggressive.

 

Dark is a much stronger defensive set although Seeds is clearly OP, because it doesn't rely on a single mez. You do get a Confuse, but also -ToHit, Fear, and a Stun. The usual problem with Dark is that you open up with Fearsome Stare and Living Shadows for nice -ToHit and some mezzing and damage, but then you want to rush in to throw the Stun. Not only does that automatically waste some time, but sometimes it's hard to squeeze into the middle of a spawn. Well, if you take Savage, you open up the usual way, and then:

1) put two -Res IOs (Achilles, Annihilation) in Unkindness, and throw that next. Now you have chances to give everyone a Resistance debuff while also adding some -Defense and solid damage if you slot it with procs and damage and give up on Recharge or set bonuses.

2) Follow this with Feral Charge into the center of the spawn for more AoE damage possibly boosted by -Res.

3) Now throw the Stun from the center of the spawn, and your "travel time" was a good AoE damage attack, and if you targeted a mob at the center of the spawn, then you don't have to worry about how to get past the bunch at the front. Slot it mostly for damage with like 4 PBAoE damage procs for over 250 damage, and with the 3 major AoEs (and minor damage from a proc in Fearsome Stare and Living Shadows damage), the spawn should be down to the Bosses and heavily damaged LTs, all Stunned.

Bonus if you have a Force Feedback in Feral Charge so that you can do this again faster.

 

Plant is generally safer, because OMG Seeds. But when it fails, it has little backup. Dark is a little more risky most of the time since you will get more (debuffed) return fire through the FS/LS/Unkindness/Feral sequence until you throw the Stun, so you have to build up more Defense in the build. But on the other hand, when it hits problem mobs (Plants hate the Rularuu), it doesn't really have major problems.

[s3ri0us]

I never tried Dominators cause they are expensive af to build with all the purple sets for the perma dom but i have a lot of controllers so i guess the primaries have no difference. Personal opinion, i would go with Plant. I think it's more dmg, you are using Seeds,Roots and Carrion Creepers when it's off cooldown and you are good to go savaging as long as you like. And another reason is SEEEEEEDS :P

[Phalanx480bc]

I recently took both to 20 and while Plant is my favorite primary overall, I prefer Dark to pair with Savage.  It almost feels like Savage was designed with Dark in mind, considering there wasn't a thematic primary added to correspond to it. It just feels better and I think there are better sets to pair with Plant.  Either one works, though, functionally and thematically.

[mbre2006]

9 hours ago, s3ri0us said:

I never tried Dominators cause they are expensive af to build with all the purple sets for the perma dom

That's not true in the slightest. You can permadom a dom without a single purp or the one ATO set that offers recharge. 

[Frosticus]

both are really solid pairings. 

dark is a bit slower and methodical but has a ton of control as well as soft control.

It has an answer for nearly everything and enough control to answer everything again on the next spawn.

 

plant is fast. It is sort of a one hit wonder set, but it is a great hit. If you miss with seeds you might not do well. Plant has other  tools but you can become so dependent on seeds that you either dont take them (aoe hold, aoe sleep) or forget you have them haha.

 

Savage is a ton of fun.

[Frosticus]

3 minutes ago, mbre2006 said:

That's not true in the slightest. You can permadom a dom without a single purp or the one ATO set that offers recharge. 

exactly. sav offers up a few good spots for ff +rech as well. And blood stacks contribute good rech over time.

my dark/sav was a very easy perma by the late 30s and probably my cheapest character for that amount of power. 

[VV]

21 hours ago, Phalanx480bc said:

It almost feels like Savage was designed with Dark in mind, considering there wasn't a thematic primary added to correspond to it.

I totally agree with this. I have a Dark/Savage and it is so easy to play. I went full melee on mine, just for theme. So, my attack sequence is usually Fearsome Stare, Living Shadows, Feral Charge, Rending Flurry. If there are any left (which is unusual), I pop Heart of Darkness, then continue rending. I try to remember to throw Haunt in there sometimes, so I have even more pets.

 

I do have a Plant/Rad and honestly, I cannot see what the big excitement over Seeds of Confusion is. I mean, Confusion is a nice mezz, but it does not seem more impressive than any other confuse. I rarely use it on my Planter, generally just for emergencies.

[Coyote]

39 minutes ago, VV said:

I do have a Plant/Rad and honestly, I cannot see what the big excitement over Seeds of Confusion is. I mean, Confusion is a nice mezz, but it does not seem more impressive than any other confuse.

 

😧😧😧

[Smites]

Thanks a lot for your Inputs.

 

It's even hard to decide if I'd choose any of the sets thematically because both totally fit the concept of the character that I'm trying to make. 😕 (a Zombie/ Mad Harvester type of character accidentally brought back to live after having been lynched, cursed and crucified like a scarecrow on the fields by the village's inhabitants that where stricken by the same mysterious madness that guided his hands when he poisonined the crops and killed the cattle, all back in the time when the settlers arrived and there was no paragon city... yeah, grimdark, I know, feel free to salvage it 😄).
But yeah, Plants would fit because he... well, he is/was a harvester and he kinda looks like a scarecrow, and Dark would fit because he is evil (perhaps possessed), and a zombie.
Fear would probably also fit the concept and possession is probably one of the most awesome looking powers I've ever seen but then again I perfer a flesh eating Plant over a foggy dog. 😧

Another question that came to my mind would be about the carrion creepers, are they sort of a pet? I mean I've read about it and that it sort of acts like a pet, an invisible one that actually casts the creeper patch, does it follow you?

And can you make it permanent?

Edited March 12, 2020 by Smites

[mbre2006]

1 hour ago, VV said:

I do have a Plant/Rad and honestly, I cannot see what the big excitement over Seeds of Confusion is. I mean, Confusion is a nice mezz, but it does not seem more impressive than any other confuse

Seeds of confusion has the faster aoe recharge than any confusion. 60 recharge (base) with a 29.8 (base) duration which means if you only two slot it with recharge IOs you can get the recharge time down to 32 secs. With hasten about 23 secs. And with set bonuses... even more. It's the best confuse in the game. 

[mbre2006]

29 minutes ago, Smites said:

Another question that came to my mind would be about the carrion creepers, are they sort of a pet? I mean I've read about it and that it sort of acts like a pet, an invisible one that actually casts the creeper patch, does it follow you?

It's a pseudopet, I would explain it but there is an entire webpage dedicated to it's explanation. 

 

https://cityofheroes.fandom.com/wiki/Pseudopet

[VV]

1 hour ago, Smites said:

Another question that came to my mind would be about the carrion creepers, are they sort of a pet? I mean I've read about it and that it sort of acts like a pet, an invisible one that actually casts the creeper patch, does it follow you?

And can you make it permanent?

Basically, yes. It follows you around. Yes, with enough recharge you can make it permanent.

[Coyote]

1 hour ago, VV said:

Basically, yes. It follows you around. Yes, with enough recharge you can make it permanent.

 

But, no, you STILL can't keep it. Even if it follows you home. 😛

[Phalanx480bc]

7 hours ago, mbre2006 said:

Seeds of confusion has the faster aoe recharge than any confusion. 60 recharge (base) with a 29.8 (base) duration which means if you only two slot it with recharge IOs you can get the recharge time down to 32 secs. With hasten about 23 secs. And with set bonuses... even more. It's the best confuse in the game. 

It's not just the best confuse in the game, but the best AOE control in the game, period.  t's just THAT good.  Honestly, back on live I always felt that someone fat-fingered the recharge numbers when they plugged it in and always waited for the nerf/bug-fix that never came.  It is what defines the Plant Control set.  Without it it would be a mildly interesting set, at best.

[Delusionist]

On 3/12/2020 at 12:13 AM, Frosticus said:

exactly. sav offers up a few good spots for ff +rech as well. And blood stacks contribute good rech over time.

my dark/sav was a very easy perma by the late 30s and probably my cheapest character for that amount of power. 

Would you by any chance be willing to share that build?

[Frosticus]

4 hours ago, Delusionist said:

Would you by any chance be willing to share that build?

For leveling, replace purples with the lower tier +rech offerings for the respective powers. 

I also put crushing impact in viscous slash till I was ready to proc it out.

 

It was around 80% global rech in the late 30's. Add blood and the FF procs and it was usually perma hasten while on a mission map. I took hawk late even though it is such a good power. I didn't want to consume blood at earlier levels, instead riding the crimson wave haha.

 

Spoiler

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Dominator
Primary Power Set: Darkness Control
Secondary Power Set: Savage Assault
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Ice Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Dark Grasp -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(17), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(29), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(31)
Level 1: Call Swarm -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Living Shadows -- SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprAscoft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(3), SprAscoft-EndRdx/Rchg(3), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(27), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprAscoft-Rchg/+Dmg%(34)
Level 4: Vicious Slash -- TchofDth-Dam%(A), Mk'Bit-Dam%(5), GldStr-%Dam(5), ExpStr-Dam%(25), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(25), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(27)
Level 6: Possess -- CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(A), CrcPrs-Conf(7), CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(7), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(23), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(23), CrcPrs-Conf%(31)
Level 8: Fearsome Stare -- CldSns-ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(9), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(9), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(11), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(11), CldSns-%Dam(31)
Level 10: Unkindness -- TchofLadG-%Dam(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(40), Ann-ResDeb%(42), PstBls-Dam%(42), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(43), Dtn-Dmg/Rng(43)
Level 12: Heart of Darkness -- AbsAmz-ToHitDeb%(A), AbsAmz-EndRdx/Stun(13), AbsAmz-Stun/Rchg(13), AbsAmz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(15), AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(15)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 16: Spot Prey -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), RechRdx-I(17)
Level 18: Haunt -- SlbAll-Build%(A), GlmoftheA-Dam%(19), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(19), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(21), ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 20: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(45)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 24: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(A)
Level 26: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Blood Craze -- NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(A), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(36), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(36)
Level 30: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(33), UnbGrd-Max HP%(33)
Level 32: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(33), LucoftheG-Def(34), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 35: Sleet -- UndDfn-Rchg/EndRdx(A), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 38: Feral Charge -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), Hct-Dam%(39), TchofDth-Dam%(39), ExpStr-Dam%(39), Hct-Dmg(40), GldStr-%Dam(40)
Level 41: Frozen Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(42)
Level 44: Call Hawk -- Apc-Dam%(A), Apc-Dmg(45), GldJvl-Dam%(46), ExpStr-Dam%(46), CldSns-%Dam(46), FrcFdb-Rechg%(50)
Level 47: Ice Storm -- Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Rgn-Dmg(48), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(48), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Rgn-Knock%(50)
Level 49: Hoarfrost -- RechRdx-I(A), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Domination 
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(34)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(37)
Level 1: Blood Frenzy 
Level 0: Born In Battle 
Level 0: High Pain Threshold 
Level 0: Invader 
Level 0: Marshal 
Level 50: Intuition Radial Paragon 
------------

 

[plainguy]

I have a Electric Savage build ( not created yet )..  Typed defense cap all but Psi.. 2 seconds off Perma Dom with no incarnates. 

You could probably swap out Electric for Dark and take a look how it helps.

The sad part its 30 IOs at 25 million each.. Even with my farmer its too much for me.. I can make tons of other toons for that price..

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Dominator
Primary Power Set: Electric Control
Secondary Power Set: Savage Assault
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Tesla Cage -- SprEnt-Acc/Hold(A), SprEnt-Hold/Rchg(17), SprEnt-End/Rchg(17), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End(37), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End/Rchg(37), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc(42)
Level 1: Call Swarm -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(37)
Level 2: Chain Fences -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(5), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(39), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(39)
Level 4: Vicious Slash -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(11), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(13), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(50)
Level 6: Jolting Chain -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(7)
Level 8: Conductive Aura -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(9), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(9), Prv-Heal/Rchg(15), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(15), Prv-Absorb%(36)
Level 10: Unkindness -- PstBls-Dam%(A)
Level 12: Static Field -- SprDmnGrs-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprDmnGrs-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(40), SprDmnGrs-EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprDmnGrs-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(40), SprDmnGrs-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(42), SprDmnGrs-Rchg/Fiery Orb(43)
Level 14: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Spot Prey -- RctRtc-ToHit(A)
Level 18: Paralyzing Blast -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(19), UnbCns-Dam%(19), Lck-%Hold(25), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(25), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(31)
Level 20: Rending Flurry -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(27)
Level 22: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(23), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(46), RctArm-ResDam(46), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(46)
Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(27), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(29)
Level 26: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29)
Level 28: Blood Craze -- DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(A)
Level 30: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(34)
Level 32: Gremlins -- BldMnd-Acc/Dmg(A), BldMnd-Dmg/EndRdx(33), BldMnd-Acc/EndRdx(33), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), BldMnd-Acc(34), BldMnd-Dmg(34)
Level 35: Call Hawk -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(36)
Level 38: Feral Charge -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(43), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(43), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 41: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(42)
Level 44: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(45), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(48), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(50), GssSynFr--Build%(50)
Level 49: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Domination 
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(3)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(3)
Level 1: Blood Frenzy 
------------

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[serxiom]

I have Plant/ and Dark/ dominators. My recomnendation if this is going your first Dom...go /Plant. 

Dark requires a little more management positioning yourself to drop fear / Inmob cones right not adding Stun + Attacks etc 

Plant just requires you to drop seeds of confusión and then the rest. 

Watch some videos and you will have an idea what fits for your playstyle.

[Tux]

Quick question about Call Swarm... worth proc'ing out or best just leaving it as it's a busy set anyway?

[Coyote]

5 hours ago, Tux said:

Quick question about Call Swarm... worth proc'ing out or best just leaving it as it's a busy set anyway?

 

Do not proc it out, due to its short recharge it won't activate the procs too much. On some builds I slot it out because you only get your next ranged attack with Call Hawk, so I wanted to have a way to kill runners without having to aggro the next spawn or to fight AVs without having to go into melee. But when I slot it out, I only look at the set bonuses... Decimation, Devastation, or Thunderstrike, depending on what bonuses I need. Procs are used only for being part of a set I'm using already.