I feel like I'm playing Dominators 'wrong'...

[biostem]

So I'll get this right out of the way;  I'm familiar with controllers and the control sets in general, but I'm mainly a melee-AT player.  I love gravity control, but I can pretty much do what I want with that set on a controller, without needing outside attacks.  I'm trying to grasp the assault sets and how they're meant to interact with your primary.  Do I just lock down an enemy and run into melee, to wail on them with my melee and ranged attacks?  I tried making a ranged-only dom, but it just wasn't a fun experience for me.  I'd also like to point out that I'm not hugely into IO set stuff - I mainly just slot up generic IOs and call it a day, so perma-dom is probably not going to happen for me.  Any advice or suggestions you can provide would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks for reading.

[mbre2006]

48 minutes ago, biostem said:

I'd also like to point out that I'm not hugely into IO set stuff

In that case you're already off to a bad start because as Doms we depend on set bonuses to help us prolong our godhood status with permadom. If you wanna go melee heavy go with Energy assault and for the epic pool pick up primal assault and get energy transfer. 

 

Keep in mind Doms have low hitpoints and you're not a tank/brute/scrapper/stalker,  only have your mez powers to keep you safe. 

[MunkiLord]

I've never really ran a Dom without permadom going, so I can't speak for that too much. But it's rough going. Earth Assault is a good set for melee, Seismic Smash is a mag 3 hold in addition to hitting really hard. It is good to combo with your standard ST hold to lock down bosses quickly when Domination isn't up. Mind and Dark both have confuses, so that can help a lot since they don't draw aggro.

[Frosticus]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

So I'll get this right out of the way;  I'm familiar with controllers and the control sets in general, but I'm mainly a melee-AT player.  I love gravity control, but I can pretty much do what I want with that set on a controller, without needing outside attacks.  I'm trying to grasp the assault sets and how they're meant to interact with your primary.  Do I just lock down an enemy and run into melee, to wail on them with my melee and ranged attacks?  I tried making a ranged-only dom, but it just wasn't a fun experience for me.  I'd also like to point out that I'm not hugely into IO set stuff - I mainly just slot up generic IOs and call it a day, so perma-dom is probably not going to happen for me.  Any advice or suggestions you can provide would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks for reading.

probably dark/nrg might work for you.

dark works well with or without domination up. Nrg offers good ranged and melee damage. Power up (a few sets have this) does wonders for your controls and boosts the tohit debuff.

 

 

[Mezmera]

I'll echo that you're off to a bad start not IOing your dom to the max.  If there's any reason to get familiar with IOs it's to build a nasty dom.  I'd find a range only dom boring for how much more you can potentially be.  Yes you should lock down groups with your AoE controls then go to town with the best powers in your arsenal, typically those are pbaoe and melee attacks.  

 

I will say to go with Energy Assault.  Not because it's perceived to be melee-centric, but because it has a vicious mix of melee and ranged attacks, plus Power Up only makes your controls better giving you more time to grind out the damage once you have enemies locked down.    

[Coyote]

Without set bonuses you won't be nearly as strong at locking down mobs, and that's a major part of your defensive abilities. But if you want to try it AND go into melee, I like Earth Assault. It has a lot of knockup, knockdown, and a great Hold in the melee attacks. It can take FF: Recharge IOs if you're willing to go with at least single proc IOs to help your recharge. And it does a lot of damage... usually with Endurance problems, but if you're not gaining much Recharge from set bonuses, then your End burn may not be that bad.

 

I'll also suggest that Dark is a good set both early and late without set bonuses since it doesn't depend on high mez mags as much as others, but another great option is Electric. It also can defend itself very well with End drain and fast-recharging powers that don't need great global recharge to be effective, and it pairs well with Earth since its +Recovery options can help support Earth's high End drain.

[VV]

13 hours ago, biostem said:

Do I just lock down an enemy and run into melee, to wail on them with my melee and ranged attacks?

Yes. My motto on Doms is "Lock 'em and Clock 'em". I usually open with 2 or 3 aoe controls then head in for the bloodshed. If I see too many moving around, I will reapply controls. I tend to think of Dominators as Scraptrollers or Blastrollers, depending on your playstyle.

 

I feel you on that because I came to Doms from a Controller, too, though my controller was /storm, so it was more of an aggressive controller than most. The other thing I recommend is to slot your control powers for damage, and damage procs. Dead is the best control.

[XaoGarrent]

The vast majority of Dom builds really do need IOs, and leveling doms is always going to be painful, even if it's *less* painful than it was on live because at least now you have an easy option of slotting scaling set IOs early-ish. If you're playing a lot of doms, you absolutely want to get a farmer of some sort going so you can fund them.

 

The problem with Dominators is that they're extremely all or nothing, and life is a real struggle until you get your pet(s)... Which aren't particularly commandable, unlike MM pets, so the struggle continues in a new way even once you have that. Dominators work like this in a nutshell: Either you lock everything down completely and basically win because if nothing can attack you you're functionally at the immortality line, or... Well, you die horribly, because at anything higher than +1 even LTs can slap you for almost half your health.

 

Even on teams you're highly reliant on your meatshields having a clue what they're doing, so you can do your job properly. If your tank can't hold agro or can't stay up long enough for you to lock enemies down, you're going to die. A lot.

[Redlynne]

Dominators are ... Blasters Who Mez.

 

You use your Mez powers to allow you to safely blast away your opposition.  If you aren't building towards that outcome, then yes ... you're building and playing your Dominator(s) "wrong" ...

[VV]

1 minute ago, XaoGarrent said:

The vast majority of Dom builds really do need IOs, and leveling doms is always going to be painful, even if it's *less* painful than it was on live because at least now you have an easy option of slotting scaling set IOs early-ish. If you're playing a lot of doms, you absolutely want to get a farmer of some sort going so you can fund them.

 

The problem with Dominators is that they're extremely all or nothing, and life is a real struggle until you get your pet(s)... Which aren't particularly commandable, unlike MM pets, so the struggle continues in a new way even once you have that. Dominators work like this in a nutshell: Either you lock everything down completely and basically win because if nothing can attack you you're functionally at the immortality line, or... Well, you die horribly, because at anything higher than +1 even LTs can slap you for almost half your health.

 

Even on teams you're highly reliant on your meatshields having a clue what they're doing, so you can do your job properly. If your tank can't hold agro or can't stay up long enough for you to lock enemies down, you're going to die. A lot.

Your entire Dom and MM experience is completely different from mine. Like, everything you said, I find to be completely the opposite.

[XaoGarrent]

1 hour ago, VV said:

Your entire Dom and MM experience is completely different from mine. Like, everything you said, I find to be completely the opposite.

I hardly said anything about MMs, so I'm not sure how. As for doms... It's just a simple matter of AoE. Most Doms have a lot of it. Much of it crowd control. Much of it damage. With very little to protect them from anything they fail to lock down.

[Mezmera]

Stealth, Phase, Combat Jumping, Hover, Tough, Weave, Maneuvers, Vengeance, Unleash Potential, Rune of Protection, Epic Shields, Melee Hybrid, Barrier.  On top of that there's all kinds of easily attainable bonuses.

Edited March 13, 2020 by Mezmera

[XaoGarrent]

12 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

Stealth, Phase, Combat Jumping, Hover, Tough, Weave, Maneuvers, Vengeance, Unleash Potential, Rune of Protection, Epic Shields, Melee Hybrid, Barrier.  On top of that there's all kinds of easily attainable bonuses.

Read context please.

[Mezmera]

1 hour ago, XaoGarrent said:

Read context please.

You said you have very little to protect you as a dominator.  I offered many solutions to build up that defense and resistance to pair up with fantastic control.  Just because you refuse to see it doesn't mean it's not there.

[Dark Current]

If you want to play in melee then your primary is the most important pick.

 

I'd suggest one of the elemental sets: fire, ice or elec. 

[SaddestGhost]

6 hours ago, Mezmera said:

Stealth, Phase, Combat Jumping, Hover, Tough, Weave, Maneuvers, Vengeance, Unleash Potential, Rune of Protection, Epic Shields, Melee Hybrid, Barrier.  On top of that there's all kinds of easily attainable bonuses.

I'll second some of these. For an IO-less dom, Rune of Protection is pretty handy to smooth out the spikes of on/off mez protection and  a bit of stealth goes a long way in helping Plant and Dark position for their cones.  I would probably skip over the Fighting Pool without IOs to contribute to more significant defense though.  Aid Self might also be a handy tool for sets that don't offer any means to heal, especially with Field Medic removing the interrupt time from it.

 

 

[Coyote]

5 hours ago, Mezmera said:

You said you have very little to protect you as a dominator.  I offered many solutions to build up that defense and resistance to pair up with fantastic control.  Just because you refuse to see it doesn't mean it's not there.

 

I think what he's saying is that suggestions like "melee hybrid", which is definitely a good suggestion for Incarnates.... doesn't fit his problem that a "leveling Dominator" has little access to defenses.

Personally, I think he's right... with Doms having slot crunches since everything needs to be slotted for Accuracy, Recharge, End Mod, PLUS effect (mez or damage), it's hard to work on getting set bonuses for a while. And it's hard to slot up extra defensive powers until the 30s or 40s. And epic shields don't open up until 35 (often later since many Doms get good attacks at 35/38), and Incarnate abilities of course only at 50.

So, a high-level Dom DOES have good defensive options. A leveling build at 22 or 32... probably doesn't. I think that's why he's saying that you're not answering in the context of how he stated his problem.

[Redlynne]

28 minutes ago, SaddestGhost said:

Aid Self might also be a handy tool for sets that don't offer any means to heal, especially with Field Medic removing the interrupt time from it.

Field Medic removes the Interrupt from Aid OTHER ... not from Aid SELF ...

[XaoGarrent]

6 hours ago, Mezmera said:

You said you have very little to protect you as a dominator.  I offered many solutions to build up that defense and resistance to pair up with fantastic control.  Just because you refuse to see it doesn't mean it's not there.

What you said is akin to saying "the solution to climate change is to move to mars." Removing absolutely all context and real world consideration, yes, anything vaguely related to the topic sounds like a good argument.

 

I told you to read context for a reason. Because the reason why your solution isn't actually a solution is inherent in the context of the posts in this thread.

 

Most of what you mentioned there is either an expensive toggle that confers an absolutely tiny bonus, on a class that has a full attack chain before the level it can even fully slot out Stamina... Or is reliant on being level 50, and is passively assuming we're stacking with IOs. Yes, nobody missed the slimy weasel words, "On top of that there's all kinds of easily attainable bonuses" but you don't specifically state anything because you're thinking of IOs, but you know the OP has already ruled that option out.

 

Nobody's questioning whether these are effective under the context of min maxing for end game, with an ideal, complete build. It's absolutely everywhere else that's being discussed here, because if the OP was in that situation they wouldn't even be here. With the assumption that stacking IO bonuses to min max on top of say, Weave and Maneuvers off the table, and whether we're dealing with leveling or endgame not being clear, you're giving horrible advice whether you realize it or not.

 

You're not arguing the point that's in the thread, you're arguing some point that you made up in your head because you have nothing worthwhile to say and just want to arbitrarily defend something regardless of reality. Please stop doing this.

[quixoteprog]

Have not run many dominators, more a controller guy myself. but something I have wondered is; since permadom is so central to dominator builds I assume you always take Hasten, but then which power to you put on auto-fire? Domination? Or Hasten? Because, in most builds for just about every character I take Hasten, which I place on auto. I am under the impression that you can only have one power set this way.

Edited March 13, 2020 by quixoteprog

[Redlynne]

42 minutes ago, quixoteprog said:

Have not run many dominators, more a controller guy myself. but something I have wondered is; since permadom is so central to dominator builds I assume you always take Hasten, but then which power to you put on auto-fire? Domination? Or Hasten? Because, in most builds for just about every character I take Hasten, which I place on auto. I am under the impression that you can only have one power set this way.

The solution is keybinds.

You set up keybinds for all of your attack powers (the ones you click) such that they (reading from left to right) execute the attack power and execute domination in a format of "attack$$domination" (overly simplified).  That way, if Domination is recharged it automatically takes priority for casting over the attack.  You then set Hasten on autofire (as normal).

 

Or you do it the other way around ("attack$$hasten") and put Domination on autofire.

Either way, you invoke the "second perma power" in a way that is linked to the keybinds for your click powers you use to attack with.

[Phalanx480bc]

On 3/12/2020 at 10:33 PM, VV said:

Your entire Dom and MM experience is completely different from mine. Like, everything you said, I find to be completely the opposite.

I agree with this.  My doms are very survivable,  moderately strong and relatively fast in the early levels.  They  aren't painful at all and only get better as they get their later abilities.  Some of the control sets can be a little slow, but the assault sets more than compensate for this unless you are deliberately choosing a combination that has no synergy.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Phalanx480bc

[XaoGarrent]

1 hour ago, quixoteprog said:

Have not run many dominators, more a controller guy myself. but something I have wondered is; since permadom is so central to dominator builds I assume you always take Hasten, but then which power to you put on auto-fire? Domination? Or Hasten? Because, in most builds for just about every character I take Hasten, which I place on auto. I am under the impression that you can only have one power set this way.

Permadom is so central to the AT that it's one of those things people have created binds around. In addition to the above mentioned flavor, people also bind the movement keys to activate one or the other, kinda like how obnoxious scouts used to bind NEED A DISPENSER HERE to the movement keys in the golden age of TF2.

Edited March 13, 2020 by XaoGarrent

[MunkiLord]

1 hour ago, quixoteprog said:

Have not run many dominators, more a controller guy myself. but something I have wondered is; since permadom is so central to dominator builds I assume you always take Hasten, but then which power to you put on auto-fire? Domination? Or Hasten? Because, in most builds for just about every character I take Hasten, which I place on auto. I am under the impression that you can only have one power set this way.

I put Domination on auto fire, but @Redlynne uses a much better method that I was not aware of. I'll be looking into this.

[Coyote]

I use keybinds on movement and power activates that alternates between loading two files, and alternates setting Domination and Hasten as the auto powers, rather than trying to activate Domination or Hasten. That way you don't get the annoying noise and message that the power isn't ready to activate every time you do something.

 

Also, BTW, I also have found Dominators to be pretty easy at leveling... but I'm really good with control characters. I can get by just on the controls until I can slot out defenses and switch to easy cruising mode in the 40s. But I've seen other players who are more used to relying on passive defenses have problems with Dominators. The "build for defense" advice isn't very useful until the late 30s or even later, so the advice for lower levels should be teaching them how to mix control as a defense with damage as a defense... and that really is a pretty long tutorial to go through. For example, mez the Lt and clobber the minion since both are mezzed with the same difficulty, but the minion is easier to kill.